If they were treating them 'incredibly well' they'd not have fucking colonised them.
沒有國民黨就沒有中國, Without the Kuomintang there would be no China, A Republic of China Story
- Thread starter CELTICEMPIRE
- Start date
That's on the Qing who conquered them centuries ago in ancient history, not the Republic. Republic simply inherited the majority of the borders of the Qing dynasty and sought to create a multiethnic China per the principles of Sun-Yat-Sen. They are getting better at democracy only lately but in terms of following Sun's multiethnic vision the KMT has been written by @CELTICEMPIRE to have followed that principle from the absolute beginning.
Apparently multi-ethnic states are all colonialism one way or another, even in the modern day, according to you. You should cease your self-righteous attitude because it is not making your argument more convincing at all. We have no textual evidence from this story that the Uyghurs are particularly being mistreated or agitating for independence. Not every ethnicity in the world wants their own nation and sometimes they are honestly legitimately better off in the original country and they see that and don't desire independence. And when the original country has treated them as equal citizens, guaranteeing their culture, trying to integrate them into the high level politics and industries and half of their homeland has been illegally occupied by a tyrannical communist regime, the original country has every right to march in and kick the fucking communists out and reclaim their internationally recognized lands and borders.
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九十三, Taiwan
The island of Taiwan, along with some smaller islands, was made part of China in 1945. It was transferred from Japan at the end of the Second World War. It became Taiwan Province, with its capital in Taipei. First impressions are important, and the Kuomintang did not make a good one. Over 18,000 Taiwanese were killed in the 228 Incident in 1947. Taiwanese industry was moved to the mainland to help rebuild war-ravaged China. Throughout the Chinese Civil War, troops were stationed there that could have been used elsewhere. Though there were few Communists in Taiwan, there was a real concern that the Island’s population might revolt. The island would have a large military presence for its size, and it still does to this day.
The twin specters of Communism and separatism (with the latter being far more popular on the island) haunted ROC officials in Taiwan. A significant portion of the island’s population didn’t want them there. The Taiwan Independence movement existed, even though it was illegal. Advocacy of any form of separatism was normally punished by a jail sentence, the length of which was seemingly arbitrary. Activist Huang Hua spent decades behind bars between the 60s and the 90s. after multiple arrests. Chinese nationalists claimed that Deng Xiaoping was behind independence movements in Xinjiang, Tibet, and Taiwan. Separatism was considered treasonous back on the mainland, even by those involved in pro-democracy or anti-KMT activities. It’s been estimated that about one third of Taiwanese had at least some sympathy for Taiwanese independence.
There were also plenty of people who were happy to see the island return to Chinese rule. The Kuomintang had strength in the Northern part of the island, particularly around Taipei. In 1952, some men from Yilan, acting under the orders of then Vice President of the Legislative Yuan Chen Lifu, took a fishing boat to the Diaoyu Islands and placed Chinese flags on what was still Japanese territory. The islands would become part of Taiwan Province in two years’ time. One notable Kuomintang politician born in Taiwan was Interior Minister Lien Chen-tung (though he spent most of his time in the mainland, and that’s where his son, Lien Chan, was born). In 1968, Lee Teng-hui, who was born in Taiwan, became governor. KMT support in Taiwan was bolstered by rich mainlanders moving there, building homes on the island’s many beaches.
(Lee Teng-hui)
The KMT in Taiwan had some internal rivalries. The main rivalry was between Lee Teng-hui and his eventual successor Lin Yang-kang. Lin, ironically in retrospect, toed the party line while Lee would criticize mainland officials for ignoring the needs of Taiwan. Lin was one of the few KMT officials in Taiwan who supported Chen Lifu for Vice President in 1972 over native son Lien Chen-tung. As Taiwan, along with most other provinces, democratized minor parties began to have more success. While a rare at the time defection from the KMT had given the China Democratic Socialist Party the mayor of Taipei in the 1950s, by the 1980s KMT officials switching sides was not uncommon. The CDSP and the CYP had over a dozen mayors between them by 1988.
(Lin Yang-kang)
Taiwan was industrialized in the North and West, but more rural and agricultural in the South. The shipbuilding industry was an important part of the economy. The Taiwan Machinery Shipbuilding Corporation grew throughout the 50s and 60s because landlords were given shares in the company as compensation for land reform. Taipei became one of the richest cities in China, and came close to Shanghai and Nanking in terms of GDP per capita. Keelung also became an important city from its container shipping port. The towns on the east coast would become filled with resorts. Tourists could go to the mountains and to the beaches, which were often very close to each other. Chinese and foreigner alike flocked to Taiwan starting in the 1980s.
The twin specters of Communism and separatism (with the latter being far more popular on the island) haunted ROC officials in Taiwan. A significant portion of the island’s population didn’t want them there. The Taiwan Independence movement existed, even though it was illegal. Advocacy of any form of separatism was normally punished by a jail sentence, the length of which was seemingly arbitrary. Activist Huang Hua spent decades behind bars between the 60s and the 90s. after multiple arrests. Chinese nationalists claimed that Deng Xiaoping was behind independence movements in Xinjiang, Tibet, and Taiwan. Separatism was considered treasonous back on the mainland, even by those involved in pro-democracy or anti-KMT activities. It’s been estimated that about one third of Taiwanese had at least some sympathy for Taiwanese independence.
There were also plenty of people who were happy to see the island return to Chinese rule. The Kuomintang had strength in the Northern part of the island, particularly around Taipei. In 1952, some men from Yilan, acting under the orders of then Vice President of the Legislative Yuan Chen Lifu, took a fishing boat to the Diaoyu Islands and placed Chinese flags on what was still Japanese territory. The islands would become part of Taiwan Province in two years’ time. One notable Kuomintang politician born in Taiwan was Interior Minister Lien Chen-tung (though he spent most of his time in the mainland, and that’s where his son, Lien Chan, was born). In 1968, Lee Teng-hui, who was born in Taiwan, became governor. KMT support in Taiwan was bolstered by rich mainlanders moving there, building homes on the island’s many beaches.
(Lee Teng-hui)
The KMT in Taiwan had some internal rivalries. The main rivalry was between Lee Teng-hui and his eventual successor Lin Yang-kang. Lin, ironically in retrospect, toed the party line while Lee would criticize mainland officials for ignoring the needs of Taiwan. Lin was one of the few KMT officials in Taiwan who supported Chen Lifu for Vice President in 1972 over native son Lien Chen-tung. As Taiwan, along with most other provinces, democratized minor parties began to have more success. While a rare at the time defection from the KMT had given the China Democratic Socialist Party the mayor of Taipei in the 1950s, by the 1980s KMT officials switching sides was not uncommon. The CDSP and the CYP had over a dozen mayors between them by 1988.
(Lin Yang-kang)
Taiwan was industrialized in the North and West, but more rural and agricultural in the South. The shipbuilding industry was an important part of the economy. The Taiwan Machinery Shipbuilding Corporation grew throughout the 50s and 60s because landlords were given shares in the company as compensation for land reform. Taipei became one of the richest cities in China, and came close to Shanghai and Nanking in terms of GDP per capita. Keelung also became an important city from its container shipping port. The towns on the east coast would become filled with resorts. Tourists could go to the mountains and to the beaches, which were often very close to each other. Chinese and foreigner alike flocked to Taiwan starting in the 1980s.
九十四, The Soviet Civil War
The Communist world was in disarray. One possibility was the reestablishment of Stalinist terror. Another possibility was the complete collapse of Communism worldwide. There were, of course, many possibilities in between those two extremes as well. The scariest possibility was that nuclear weapons might be used. For the coup supporters, their strategy was to capture Leningrad and quickly defeat the anti-coup forces. Time was of the essence, as Soviet satellite states were facing protests and riots. The coup opponents had to hold out against an onslaught by a numerically superior foe. They hoped that the people of the various Soviet Republics would rally to their cause. And just like the coup supporters, they worried about unrest in the satellite states, something neither side could do much about.
(Soviet Army, 1980s)
In May 1987, some ethnic Kazaks in Xinjiang, many of them former East Turkestan soldiers, crossed the border into Soviet Kazakhstan. A wave of rebellions swept through Central Asia. The rebels hoped that China would intervene on their behalf, but that didn’t happen. Some weapons and supplies were airlifted to the rebels, however. The Central Asian rebels would serve as a distraction for Moscow. Meanwhile, Poland and North Korea intervened in the conflict. North Korean troops attacked anti-coup Soviets in the border town of Khasan. China responded by shelling nearby North Korean positions. Border skirmishes continued for a few days, with dozens of Koreans, Russians, and Chinese dead. North Korea backed down due to fear of a double invasion by China and South Korea.
Poland sent troops to help fight anti-coup forces in the Baltic republics and Ukraine. But Polish involvement in the war only served to exacerbate tensions back home. There were several instances of Polish soldiers killing their own officers. In July the city of Gdansk was in revolt. The revolt soon spread throughout the country, and all Polish troops were recalled. In April, the Hungarian government was overthrown by Communist hardliners inspired by the March 13 coup in Moscow. They immediately faced a revolt, and their attempts to suppress it would fail. On August 4, 1987, Hungary became the first Eastern Bloc country to overthrow its Communist government. East Germany was experiencing unrest as well. Soldiers massacred protesters and all expeditionary forces in Iran were recalled to deal with the situation back home. A state of emergency was called, and East Germans had even less rights than they had before.
In June, pro-coup forces captured the city of Vyshny Volochyok. From July to September, pro and anti-coup forces clashed at Novgorod. The defenders inflicted high casualties on their attackers, but the city still fell on October 22. On the 28th, anti-coup forces repelled an attack at Pskov. But that victory did little to raise the hopes of the coup opponents. With the fall of Novgorod, the way to Leningrad was open. Leningrad was well defended, however. The defenders handed guns and anti-tank weapons to civilians. Meanwhile, Vladivostok was captured by forces loyal to Vladimir Kryuchkov’s new government in Moscow. Anti-coup forces were losing ground in Ukraine as well. Things were looking bleak for Yakovlev and his supporters.
On New Year’s Day 1988, Polish president Wojciech Jaruzelski and other members of the government fled by helicopter to Minsk as rebels entered Warsaw. The last remaining Polish Communist and Soviet troops in the country surrendered within hours. By this time East Germany was in revolt. The people of East Germany knew that if they couldn’t win their freedom before the Soviet Civil War ended, they would have to face the full might of the Soviet Union (and they knew that they might still have to even if they overthrew their government). Much of the border with West Germany was under rebel control and the rebels begged for West Germany help. West Germany was hesitant to put its troops in East Germany, but the West German Army did return fire on East German troops firing on fleeing civilians.
(Wojciech Jaruzelski)
Leningrad fought on for months, but on March 27, 1988, the city fell to pro-coup forces. Over two hundred thousand soldiers died in the fighting. Three days earlier, East Berlin had fallen to rebel forces, who were already talking about German reunification. Alexander Yakovlev was captured in Leningrad and sent to Moscow for a show trial and execution. Boris Yeltsin assumed leadership of the coup opponents, vowing to fight on from his new base in Tallinn. Petrozavodsk and Murmansk were captured in April. On the 30th, Pskov fell. Further South, Kiev had fallen as well. Anti-coup forces made a desperate last stand at Tallinn, hoping that maybe the Soviet people would rise up against the government of Vladimir Kryuchkov or the west might send help. They hoped in vain, as the city fell on May 20. Yeltsin was killed in the fighting while some officials managed to escape to Finland or Sweden.
(Boris Yeltsin, 1931-1988)
Two days after the fall of Tallinn, the final anti-coup forces in Russia surrendered at Archangelsk. Fighting continued for another month in Ukraine. Kazakhstan would continue to see fighting for the next seven years. Several estimates put the death toll at well over one million. Old school Stalinist Communism had won, but at what cost? Kryuchkov ruled over a ruined country. The Soviet economy was crumbling, and it would only get worse from this point on. Poland and East Germany were lost to Moscow, and the Communist government in Afghanistan fell just a few days after the fall of Tallinn. And to make matters worse, the Soviet Union was still at war in Iran. Many of those who had supported the coup in March of 1987 would already regret their decision by May 1988.
(Soviet Army, 1980s)
In May 1987, some ethnic Kazaks in Xinjiang, many of them former East Turkestan soldiers, crossed the border into Soviet Kazakhstan. A wave of rebellions swept through Central Asia. The rebels hoped that China would intervene on their behalf, but that didn’t happen. Some weapons and supplies were airlifted to the rebels, however. The Central Asian rebels would serve as a distraction for Moscow. Meanwhile, Poland and North Korea intervened in the conflict. North Korean troops attacked anti-coup Soviets in the border town of Khasan. China responded by shelling nearby North Korean positions. Border skirmishes continued for a few days, with dozens of Koreans, Russians, and Chinese dead. North Korea backed down due to fear of a double invasion by China and South Korea.
Poland sent troops to help fight anti-coup forces in the Baltic republics and Ukraine. But Polish involvement in the war only served to exacerbate tensions back home. There were several instances of Polish soldiers killing their own officers. In July the city of Gdansk was in revolt. The revolt soon spread throughout the country, and all Polish troops were recalled. In April, the Hungarian government was overthrown by Communist hardliners inspired by the March 13 coup in Moscow. They immediately faced a revolt, and their attempts to suppress it would fail. On August 4, 1987, Hungary became the first Eastern Bloc country to overthrow its Communist government. East Germany was experiencing unrest as well. Soldiers massacred protesters and all expeditionary forces in Iran were recalled to deal with the situation back home. A state of emergency was called, and East Germans had even less rights than they had before.
In June, pro-coup forces captured the city of Vyshny Volochyok. From July to September, pro and anti-coup forces clashed at Novgorod. The defenders inflicted high casualties on their attackers, but the city still fell on October 22. On the 28th, anti-coup forces repelled an attack at Pskov. But that victory did little to raise the hopes of the coup opponents. With the fall of Novgorod, the way to Leningrad was open. Leningrad was well defended, however. The defenders handed guns and anti-tank weapons to civilians. Meanwhile, Vladivostok was captured by forces loyal to Vladimir Kryuchkov’s new government in Moscow. Anti-coup forces were losing ground in Ukraine as well. Things were looking bleak for Yakovlev and his supporters.
On New Year’s Day 1988, Polish president Wojciech Jaruzelski and other members of the government fled by helicopter to Minsk as rebels entered Warsaw. The last remaining Polish Communist and Soviet troops in the country surrendered within hours. By this time East Germany was in revolt. The people of East Germany knew that if they couldn’t win their freedom before the Soviet Civil War ended, they would have to face the full might of the Soviet Union (and they knew that they might still have to even if they overthrew their government). Much of the border with West Germany was under rebel control and the rebels begged for West Germany help. West Germany was hesitant to put its troops in East Germany, but the West German Army did return fire on East German troops firing on fleeing civilians.
(Wojciech Jaruzelski)
Leningrad fought on for months, but on March 27, 1988, the city fell to pro-coup forces. Over two hundred thousand soldiers died in the fighting. Three days earlier, East Berlin had fallen to rebel forces, who were already talking about German reunification. Alexander Yakovlev was captured in Leningrad and sent to Moscow for a show trial and execution. Boris Yeltsin assumed leadership of the coup opponents, vowing to fight on from his new base in Tallinn. Petrozavodsk and Murmansk were captured in April. On the 30th, Pskov fell. Further South, Kiev had fallen as well. Anti-coup forces made a desperate last stand at Tallinn, hoping that maybe the Soviet people would rise up against the government of Vladimir Kryuchkov or the west might send help. They hoped in vain, as the city fell on May 20. Yeltsin was killed in the fighting while some officials managed to escape to Finland or Sweden.
(Boris Yeltsin, 1931-1988)
Two days after the fall of Tallinn, the final anti-coup forces in Russia surrendered at Archangelsk. Fighting continued for another month in Ukraine. Kazakhstan would continue to see fighting for the next seven years. Several estimates put the death toll at well over one million. Old school Stalinist Communism had won, but at what cost? Kryuchkov ruled over a ruined country. The Soviet economy was crumbling, and it would only get worse from this point on. Poland and East Germany were lost to Moscow, and the Communist government in Afghanistan fell just a few days after the fall of Tallinn. And to make matters worse, the Soviet Union was still at war in Iran. Many of those who had supported the coup in March of 1987 would already regret their decision by May 1988.
So, pyrrhic victory at best for the hardliners. Here's hoping the liberated countries can keep their freedom due to the Soviets being to weakened to reconquer them.
Romania remained neutral in the conflict. Both Romania and Bulgaria experienced civil unrest but they were able to deal with it.
Well, China doesn't even claim most of that land at this point.
There is something that can stop China, though. Nuclear weapons.
Yeah nukes will have China refrain unless the Soviets fall into outright collapse
The Soviet Union has a well known doctrine of nuclear response should they be directly invaded IIRC. Or at least Russia their successor does. It’s a highly risky move that isn’t fundamentally necessary because while those lands may have been Chinese a century ago, they’re very much not anymore and the possibility of getting back Tuva and Outer Manchuria far pales to the possibility of nuclear war.
It will only happen if the Soviet Union falls into utter collapse which is increasingly likely given a return to Stalinism.
Great updates.
I forgot what were the borders of north and south korea ttl?
i was a bit surprised in the last update that north korea was interfering in the ussr.
IRRC the only reason otl they still exist were the chinese army ahmmm I mean volunteer chinese citizen that threw back the US.
I forgot what were the borders of north and south korea ttl?
i was a bit surprised in the last update that north korea was interfering in the ussr.
IRRC the only reason otl they still exist were the chinese army ahmmm I mean volunteer chinese citizen that threw back the US.
The borders would be exactly the 38th parallel on which the Soviets and Americans split occupation zones due to lack of border changes from the Korean War.