Μηδίζω! The World of Achaemenid Hellas
- Thread starter Daeres
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Glad to be back, between retail work and life stuff it became hard to get the energy to write TL updates... I had an update about Zoroastrian religion in the TL that's been kicking my butt since I started writing it at the start of November, I decided to switch to one about Phoenician religion that took me... less than 2 days to write, and as soon as I finished it I finished the Zoroastrianism update, so that's now in the 'already finished' pipeline at least!
will you write the impact on india and south asia? what is the state of Hinduism?
I forgot ad that I really likes the all the religious syncretism developed in this world and of course how were narrated for 'future historians'.
I do plan to write about the impact on South Asia, we've only really seen the impact from the point of view of the Near East and Greece, i.e 'some guy called Agnimitra conquered the Achaemenids, he's formed a dynasty, a member of the dynasty has introduced something called Buddhism, what's up with that?'. Agnimitra and India during this period deserves a look from its own perspective as well.
As for Hinduism, when the Agnimitrids conquered most of Asia the Iranian polytheists and Indic ones were in an awkward situation; they clearly recognised the similarity of many of their beliefs and many of their deities, but on the other hand that whole thing about the Daevas being 'evil'... But over time, as Iranian beliefs come to layer the Near East alongside Buddhism, the similarities of Near Eastern and Indic religion come to be emphasised more than the differences. Asia and India become formalised kingdoms/areas in much the same way as China, but the borders between them become very fuzzy indeed, especially culturally. Hinduism in this timeline will see a stronger Buddhism to compete with, and will also come to have more influence from distinctly Iranian beliefs, but only in specific areas of contact like the Indus valley and major trading ports. They will also see more familiar cultural elements in western Asia than they would have done OTL. I don't think Hinduism in this timeline will ever formalise to as great an extent as OTL because no equivalent to Islam will ever become a force in South Asia.
Iranian Religion
Μηδίζω! THE WORLD OF ACHAEMENID HELLAS
CHAPTER 4:BAGAHA or THEOI
CHAPTER 4:BAGAHA or THEOI
104. 'We sacrifice unto Mithra, the lord of wide pastures, .... sleepless, and ever awake;
'Whose long arms, strong with Mithra-strength, encompass what he seizes in the easternmost river and what he beats with the westernmost river, what is by the Sanaka of the Rangha and what is by the boundary of the earth.
105. 'And thou, O Mithra! encompassing all this around, do thou reach it, all over, with thy arms.
'The man without glory, led astray from the right way, grieves in his heart; the man without glory thinks thus in himself: "That careless Mithra does not see all the evil that is done, nor all the lies that are told."
106. 'But I think thus in my heart:
'"Should the evil thoughts of the earthly man be a hundred times worse, they would not rise so high as the good thoughts of the heavenly Mithra;
'"Should the evil words of the earthly man be a hundred times worse, they would not rise so high as the good words of the heavenly Mithra;
'"Should the evil deeds of the earthly man be a hundred times worse, they would not rise so high as the good deeds of the heavenly Mithra;
107. '"Should the heavenly wisdom in the earthly man be a hundred times greater, it would not rise so high as the heavenly wisdom in the heavenly Mithra;
''And thus, should the ears of the earthly man hear a hundred time better, he would not hear so well as the heavenly Mithra, whose ear hears well who has a thousand senses, and sees every man that tells a lie."
'Whose long arms, strong with Mithra-strength, encompass what he seizes in the easternmost river and what he beats with the westernmost river, what is by the Sanaka of the Rangha and what is by the boundary of the earth.
105. 'And thou, O Mithra! encompassing all this around, do thou reach it, all over, with thy arms.
'The man without glory, led astray from the right way, grieves in his heart; the man without glory thinks thus in himself: "That careless Mithra does not see all the evil that is done, nor all the lies that are told."
106. 'But I think thus in my heart:
'"Should the evil thoughts of the earthly man be a hundred times worse, they would not rise so high as the good thoughts of the heavenly Mithra;
'"Should the evil words of the earthly man be a hundred times worse, they would not rise so high as the good words of the heavenly Mithra;
'"Should the evil deeds of the earthly man be a hundred times worse, they would not rise so high as the good deeds of the heavenly Mithra;
107. '"Should the heavenly wisdom in the earthly man be a hundred times greater, it would not rise so high as the heavenly wisdom in the heavenly Mithra;
''And thus, should the ears of the earthly man hear a hundred time better, he would not hear so well as the heavenly Mithra, whose ear hears well who has a thousand senses, and sees every man that tells a lie."
BIBLIOTEKHE HISTORIKE BY MOHANE (29 CE)
THE EXAMPLE OF MAZDAYA
THE EXAMPLE OF MAZDAYA
Compounding all of these foolish mistakes was this last, most notorious sequence of events which would see the end of Mazdaya’s tenure over the district of Akarnania entirely. Having withstood the consequences of his transgression, Mazdaya had now wrongly believed his position among the Akarnanioi to be secure, and his arrogant nature resurfaced.
Stratos remained the seat of Amavadatidai governance in the region. King Vivana did not permit his local governors to move their capitals except with his express permission. Mazdaya misliked the environs of Stratos, and additionally was also still widely despised among its citizens, and even among the Amavadatidai garrison stationed there. He was unable to petition the King to move the capital of the province without revealing the reason he wished to do so, and he had until this point been able to conceal his prior mistakes from the King. Being unable to move from the city he instead built an opulent mansion for himself, his family, and his loyal servants within its environs but outside its areas of dense and ancient inhabitation.
This seemed at first to confirm a change in Mazdaya’s fortunes as governor, the memory of his incompetent earlier deeds began to fade from the minds of the Akarnanioi due to seeing him so infrequently. Likewise, he was able to indulge in his various pleasures in a safe and comfortable mansion of his own design, surrounded by loyal confederates and various friends. However, being a pious man of the traditional Persian ways he found himself dissatisfied with the religious facilities available to him. Magoi were a common sight among the Persians of Hellas by this time, and indeed there were numerous magoi that had Hellenic descent in their own right. But Mazdaya was of a particularly old fashioned obstinacy, and would not countenance a magos who had not been trained in Persia proper. At great expense and length he procured such a magos, who came to live in his mansions. However, the magos, named Atraphernes perceiving correctly that Mazdaya was a pious man, and being displeased at the degeneracy of the governor’s mansions and courtiers, saw the opportunity to extract exorbitant recompenses for his services. His food ration alone was high enough to make an Akhaimenid prince baulk.
It was not long before news of this highly paid magos began to filter outside of Mazdaya’s mansion. On the one hand there were Hellenes in Madaya’s household service, and some holding key positions in the smooth running of Akarnania. They were displeased at the great favours shown to someone they believed to be discourteous and avaricious, magos or not. On the other hand this state of affairs was not usual among the Asians either, and so word swiftly reached the garrison of Stratos. From these two sources the news spread among the citizens of Stratos, and among the Akarnanioi in general. The Akarnanioi had not had the same exposure to the beliefs and practices of the Persians as many other Hellenes had by that time, and so their angry reaction was to some degree rooted in their continued suspicion of Persians and Asians in general. On the other hand, they were also a proud people who still fondly remembered their lengthy resistance against the Akhaimenid kings, and who in general had been maligned and mistreated by Mazdaya during his time as governor.
Amid much turmoil and anger, ten patriotically inclined Akarnanioi embarked on a mission to capture this valued priest, a measure which must be judged as highly ill conceived, for what could they have possibly achieved with such a hostage in their possession beyond swift and angry reprisals from their king? However, upon their successful ambuscade of the priest the Akarnanioi swiftly found themselves amiable towards him due to his gregarious nature and genuinely humble bearing towards Hellenes, rather than what had been reported by members of Madaya’s household. Instead of continuing their original purpose, which was to kidnap and ransom the holy man, they instead entreated with him to contact King Vivana. Misliking Mazdaya and the decadent atmosphere of his household, and recognising the inherently honest character of the Hellenes confronting him, the priest acceded to their request. Now Mazdaya had many other servants and members of his circle who were displeased with him, but all had been unable to contact the King. The royal court had a false sense of Akarnania being in a stable state of affairs because Mazdaya carefully controlled which messages and missives were allowed to leave the province. His critics were paid off, blackmailed, or intimidated into silence.
The priest’s solution to this problem was to disguise his message. The practice of sending water from each Hellenic river to the king had already begun in those days, and it was the turn of Akarnania province to send water from mighty Akheloios to King Vivana. The priest chose a trusted subordinate to be responsible for the ferrying of the water, and had a secret compartment baked into the amphora which was used for the task. Normally Mazdaya would have inspected any person who departed for Thebai but his extreme piety caused him to overlook this task when it came to the water-carrying servant. Thus the servant passed unmolested out of Akarnania, and reached the capital within five days. The priest’s explanation of what had been going on without King Vivana’s approval or knowledge was read out to the king, and although he had never met the priest, and although the priest was born outside the king’s domains, still King Vivana instinctively trusted the word of a magos.
A party was sent out to remove Mazdaya, and to cleanse his cronies from the government of the province. This task proved easy as many provincial officials, and all of the local garrison, either accepted or actively aided in these efforts. Only a small body of Mazdaya’s picked men remained loyal, and hastened to alert him of his coming arrest. So, rather than simply a party of cavalry or royal hoplites confronting Mazdaya, he found himself confronting most forces in Akarnania loyal to the Amavadatidai. Seeing that there was no chance of talking his way out of the situation, nor of holding his ground and engaging in rebellion against the king, Mazdaya fled with his remaining loyalists, and as much treasure as he could get hold of in the short time that was accorded to him. Initially he had planned to flee to the cities of Italia but he was warned that they were friendly to King Vivana, and would likely hand him over in the hopes of a reward. Instead, he and his followers fled to Kyrenaika, where Mazdaya’s gift for creating chaos would continue to be cultivated.
However, before we continue on to Kyrenaika, something should also be said about the aftermath of Mazdaya’s period of mismanagement in Kyrenaika. King Vivana, despairing over the issue of governing this remote but difficult province, appointed the very same priest who had alerted him to Mazdaya’s activities as governor of the region. Atraphernes swiftly put an end to the memory of Mazdaya as governor. He began by repurposing Mazdaya’s gaudy personal mansions as a temple, divided into a house for the god Artemis and a Persian shrine for the god Anahita. This arrangement was already common practice back in Mikra Asia, particularly the capital at Thebai, but for Akarnania this was still a novel concept. However, the gesture of repurposing unjustly garnered wealth for the purpose of worship was understood and appreciated by all. Atraphernes also frequently and commonly interacted with those he was custodian of, and the Akarnanioi were slowly warmed to his presence by his humility and good sense. Thus, despite the fact that Atraphernes only arrived in Hellas at all, never mind Akarnania, because of Mazdaya and his own desires, he swiftly came to be respected as the greatest and most beloved governor the province ever had, and even to this day Atraphernes of Agamtanu is still beloved among the Akarnanioi.
MIHRAG OF STAKHR’S REFLECTIONS (688 CE)
ON ASIAN RELIGION
ON ASIAN RELIGION
It can be said that Asia’s uberty of religion is unmatched, a sentiment it is nigh on impossible to deny. The sacred truths of a thousand nations converge and distill, each enriching the other. The tenets of Zarthusht, Bodda, Orfeu, Anshrnad are respected by all, and yet more besides. It must be said, however, that the most important of these prophets and philosophies to the foundation of Asia, not its maintenance nor its vitality but its earliest manifestation that would influence all others, is the text of Zarthusht, and the teachings of his followers, for it is these beliefs that were brought with the Haxamanishi as the first Asian dynasty. From them we derive the first geason of Asia, Art. From their conquest, power, and influence, this knowledge would come down to all the peoples of Asia, from the Saka to the Yona, from Mdraya to Baktri. An equal debt is therefore owed both to the sons of Amavadata, who cultivated Art among the Yona and the furthest shore, and those of Annimitra, who recognised the value of the teachings of Zarthusht, and added to them the wisdom of Hend, which would result in the bringing forward of the teachings of Bodda and the second geason, Dama.
There have been times in which the followers of Bodda and Zarthusht did not co-exist so easily. The patronage which the former received in their earliest installment into the lands of Asia did not rest easily with the mogi, who had come to consider Asia to be spiritually pure under their sole leadership. The first attempt to purge the Boddi under the Yasamasaka is known to all who are a student of history, and so it behooves us to explain why these philosphical schools that are so entwined and equally inseparable from Asian daily life had at first such violent confrontations. It must be said that the mogi of that day, being part of such successful, wise, and spiritually enlightened states had closed themselves to the idea that their practices or ideas could in any way be improved or refined. They had assumed a superior role to the practices of all the subject peoples of Asia, and so not only did the followers of Bodda decline to recognise this position, they actively attempted to convert mogi and followers of Mazd. In particular the Boddi criticised the mogi for not caring of the entry of Asians into palez save the Persians in particular, the followers of Bodda always having a universal goal to enlighten all men and women. For their part, in addition to resenting these seeming upstarts to the settled spiritual order of things, the mogi of the time conflicted with the Boddi drive towards bodily dama, or their nonviolence towards animals of all kinds. In addition, the Boddi held this world to be an impure state that entry into palez was a respite from, which offended the mogi who held many states of earthly matter to be divine. It became a fixation of spiritual experts to attempt to reconcile the two parties, perceiving their continued discord (correctly) as the sole threatening divide at the heart of Asia, and many tried from all across Asia, from Yauna soffi to the deep mystics of Mdraya to wise men from under the old starts of Arabi.
What solved the crisis was twofold; the first was the work of Anshrnad, a man born of Bablu, the heart of civilization, who brought his people’s ancient Gods back into prominence and respect and who propagated the third geason; kuba. In his view, all Gods contained within Asian beliefs should be honoured, or at the very least respected, because he viewed them all as scions of Anshr, the great progenitor from which all matter arose, and to whom the Bodda was seeking to return by palez. All Gods to Anshrnad were manifestations of the burumu, the universe’s own matter, seeking to set humanity on the right path. This philosophy coincided with the second reason that the spiritual conflict subsided, which is that the Boddi had put down deeper roots, integrating into the cultures of Asia and easing the attitudes which had caused some nations to mistrust the Boddi within their borders. The first Boddi to succeed in this regard were those of the Yauna, who unified their teachings with those of the ancient Orfeu, a source of great wisdom that had remained unrecognised in the tales and scrolls of Asia’s most distant corner, and it is from the spread of Yauna Boddi back into Asia that Orfeu’s greatest teaching became the fourth great geason of Asia; hpono. From these times Asia learned that even the most obscure and distant nations of its fellowship added to its great wholeness.
TELEO or AKUNAVAM: END OF CHAPTER 4
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This is very neat, especially given the subject matter of my own work. Who is Orfeu? I couldn't figure that one out.
Why Orpheus of course.
I knew it was going to be something incredibly obvious once I asked.
thanks.Amavadata we've already met, also known as Amavadatos, founder of the Amavadatid dynasty that successfully took Hellas away from the Achaemenids. Anshrnad hasn't been mentioned before though, I don't want to reveal too much about him just yet but it's a later Persian rendering of Ansharnasir, a Babylonian name. Dama is simply a transliteration of Dharma.
Is there going to be a version of Greco-Roman democratic and republican concepts ITTL? Probably coming more from Indian city-states? I know that Persian Greece is governed rather autonomously from Thebes and certain Greek city-states like the democratic Athens have satrap-appointed supervisors of sorts.
I just wonder how democratic governance is going to manifest ITTL.
I just wonder how democratic governance is going to manifest ITTL.
India and the Celtic world seem most likely to produce democratic forms of government in this timeline - although as ever I don't think we can rule out Greece being cited as inspiration.
Is there going to be a version of Greco-Roman democratic and republican concepts ITTL? Probably coming more from Indian city-states? I know that Persian Greece is governed rather autonomously from Thebes and certain Greek city-states like the democratic Athens have satrap-appointed supervisors of sorts.
I just wonder how democratic governance is going to manifest ITTL.
The Athenians packed up and went to Italy, where they are apparently the driving power of the Italiote League. So republics may not by around in metropolitan Greece but Magna Graecia will be a different matter.
While I'd like to learn more of the Celtic traditions leading to democracy of which Practical Lobster speaks, or Indian instances, it is pretty well known that more or less recognizably democratic practices have emerged in Germanic communities, with no visible lineage of inspiration by reference to anything Classical.
I suspect democracy is a situational thing that evolved where it is appropriate.
I suspect democracy is a situational thing that evolved where it is appropriate.