Μηδίζω! The World of Achaemenid Hellas

[Shevek23]

I've recently stumbled on this and subscribed, and would love to see it go on at a steady pace.

It's interesting that the more or less Saxon/Anglic writer of the OTL April Fool's piece is particularly vague about the "eternal" and "natural" boundary of Europe. Conceding the Balkans to "Asia" is to concede the heart of Hellas itself as basically Asian. It will be interesting to see just what people west of there establish themselves as the root of the Germanic writer's self-identity, if they write the Greeks off. Or does it imply that Hellenic identity between the stay-at-homes absorbed into "Asia" and the western colonists splits so deeply there are two Hellasses?

Anyway the boundary is rather unsettled going north from "the Wendelsee!" Beyond the Alps--how far east from the north seas does "Europe" reach before it becomes something else? Is what we'd call Central Europe a wasteland, or did our Germanic author leave out an immediate neighbor region he has particular polemic bile against, so severe he tries to manipulate them right out of existence when they are his most immediate and ongoing problem, day by day?

I remember when I first encountered that bit of gibberish that it seemed almost transparent, that "hey, Old English is practically modern English!" but the fact is I missed so much I didn't get the sense of it at all. Anyway it seemed clear it was a geographic/ethnographic description, but all the nuance of some sort of divinely ordained and eternal splitting of humanity into races or some such parallel concept went right by me.

So a canon translation is nice to have; it humbles me.

And I hold the author blameless if detailed ATL events undercut the formation of the society where it was written, so that it has to be de-canonized. It's sort of a lodestar for now, an indication of what might happen a thousand years hence but not a proof of what must, I suppose.

My mind jumps to the assumption that such words would be written by an inhabitant of the British Isles, but of course the wild bunch of Germans who today we look back on as "Angles" and "Saxons" might wander different paths and wind up somewhere else entirely. Maybe the Britons here still speak a kind of Celtic, or maybe a Farsi-derived tongue, who knows? Probably not the latter given our Saxon's partition of the globe. But an Etruscan influenced language, perhaps? With the apparent Old Englisher in Iberia or Iceland perhaps?

It is at this point a mystery!

 

[Daeres]

Μηδίζω! THE WORLD OF ACHAEMENID HELLAS
CHAPTER 3:XSHAHYAM or BASILEIA

THE LEXICON OF HELLENIC LITERATURE​

βασιλεία(Basileia) aka ἡ βᾰσῐλείᾱ (ho Basileia): A literary genre of Akhaemenid-era Hellas, appearing in the late 5th century BC. The first known example is the Basileia of Aphrodisios of Ephesos, written during the reign of Akhaimenes. The palace to which the genre title refers is that of the Akhaemenid kings, sometimes a basileia may name which of the Akhaemenid palaces is involved but even in those examples where it is not ‘the palace’ is always understood to be a place of court for an Akhaemenid king. Each basileia involves a Hellene. He begins the basileia living an ordinary life in his homeland before being whisked away to the Akhaemenid king for some hidden or unappreciated talent that the person possesses. The genre frequently blends fact and fiction, which left its Hellenic audience divided as to which works were celebrated; those that actually portrayed real events, or those which told the most enjoyable story. Some of the most quoted basileia of later periods are those that were entirely fiction.Though they were always written in prose most basileiai were intended to be read aloud, primarily in the symposia of Persian-friendly aristocrats. The genre did find some audience among Western Hellenes but, more frequently, it was the target of comedies (as in Megathenai) or satires (as in Sikelia). The genre morphed with the birth of the Amavadatid state, with the Hellene on his journey instead becoming incidental, a means by which to write a description of ideal estates, palaces, and banquets as the Hellenic character passes them by. In some cases these basileiai became guides used by Amavadatid aristocrats and potentates. By the late Amavadatid era a renewal of the genre had taken place, with the original basileiai taken to be a golden period of quality. The early Amavadatid iterations shifted into literary manuals, still used after the final fall of the Amavadatid dynasty, whilst the cultural reconciliation of Western and Eastern Hellenes shifted the renewed basileiai into the larger genre of historia, forming a large contribution to the anabasis style of historical presentation.

EXTRACTS FROM ANAXANDRA’S BASILEIA​

By Zeus, Apollo, Artemis, and Athena I say that all of what follows are the true events that transpired in the life of Monimos of Syrakousai, son of Mousaios, in the reign of the Great King Artaxerxes. If others say that things happened differently, or that Monimos is an invention, or that I am a liar, then they speak falsely.

Shall I tell of the family of Monimos? It is known to me that Mousaios of Syrakousai and his wife Artemisia were both of noble blood, if not noble circumstances; they were alike descended from ancient and noble families of Lakonia who fled the dominion of the Lakedaimonians long ago, to grain-rich Sikelia, where scandalous ancestors had long since wasted away their fortune and most of their land. But the virtue and intelligence of their line had not been spent, for Mousaios was a most excellent cook. Now hear me out, listeners, whilst I argue that a cook demonstrates nobility of birth, still your laughter a moment. A cook of the most excellent kind must demonstrate both patience and haste, unparalleled knowledge of edible things, and command legions of staff to create banquets and feasts. All successful poleis find their generals and arkhons from their cooking staff, I hear that only Perikles in Sybaris knows the best way to cook tuna and is planning on writing an epic, Ambrosia, about the best ways in which to gut shellfish. So to Mousaios and Artemisia was born a healthy baby boy, Monimos. Monimos was a stout, firm lad, as excellent a Hellene as could be asked for, raised on the good golden grain of Sikelia. But the sunnier parts of childhood do not often last, and his family was one of many forced to flee in the great stasis that gripped Syrakousai and the Kingdom of the Sikelian Hellenes. This friends, this is no laughing matter. Many good Hellenes died upon Sikelia’s fertile soil in pointless conflict. Like many residents of good character, and firm virtue, Mousaios knew that the time had come to return to his ancestral homeland, for peace was no longer to be found in Sikelia’s fair fields. He, with many thousands and thousands of others, returned to Hellas, the land of their birth and their ancestors, and pleaded with the Great King to have mercy upon them. And the Great King listened.

Mousaios and Artemisia returned to their homeland of Lakonia, and were granted rights of settlement by King Artaxerxes, for though the unjustly enslaved had been freed from the dominion of the Spartans there remained many lands that were empty of people, and Artaxerxes the Great King saw a chance to both return rightful Hellenes to their birthplace and to make the land of the Spartans bloom anew. Mousaios and Artemisia moved to Sellasia, the gate of Lakonia, under the watchful gaze of Mount Parnon. Mousaios’ aristocratic sense of pride and competition soon manifested itself, for he felt that he was certainly the best cook in all of Lakonia, his family having been away for too long for him to realise what little competition he would have for that title. He arrived at Gytheion, where the governor was in residence, and challenged the head chef to a contest of cooking ability. Here was Menelaus, rescuing Helen (and the Hellenes) from the captivity of awful cooking. A thrust here, a crushing blow here, a neat trim here, every ounce of divine might that Mousaios’ possessed was hurled at his opponent. The governor at Gytheion, Oxathres of the belly-laugh, duly rewarded Mousaios’ skills by making him his personal cook. There Mousaios was able to use every ounce of esoteric cooking knowledge that he possessed, and soon began to earn a reputation among those with fine dining habits. Those with keen and sensitive appetites would start to find excuses to visit the governor of Lakonia in order to sample Mousaios’ cuisine. It was in this environment that Monimos was taught everything his father knew about the Hellenic culinary arts, and proved a natural adept. It came to be that Daiobazarnes, the satrap in Thebes, was in need of a cook. However, Mousaios’ had grown old, and was unable to travel to Thebes, and so it was the young Monimos who went north to attend the court at Thebes.

Shall I describe the palace at Thebes to you all, or do you know of the great vaulted Apadane with its thousand coloured vault panelled with glass, rock crystal, agate, and obsidian, with the most magnificent Persian style columns in Hellas, each a hamma in length and made of the finest marbles, of its great tapestries sewn with every colour and fibre found in the known world? Do you already have intimate knowledge of the satrapal gardens, laid out by King Xerxes, filled with fruit from all four corners of the world that no Hellene had ever seen before, scented with fragrance enough to give a man sustenance as though the food was in his very mouth? Are you acquainted with the great hall of Kadmos, founder of Hellenic civilization, uniting as it does all the grandeur of Asia with the vibrancy of Hellenic architecture, containing more mosaics and murals in one building than can be found in the entirety of Ionia, showing every subject of the Great King across the entire world, and every ethnos of the Hellenes, all together in unity? It was this jewel, this paradeisos, that Monimos would have first encountered upon arriving at Thebes, and he was not unmoved by it. He knew at that moment that he was embarking on a very different life to that of his father, and becoming part of a more splendid world.

EXTRACT FROM DATIS OF SINOPE'S HISTORIA
A DESCRIPTION OF THEBES AS IT WAS AS CAPITAL OF HELLAS​

We shall now turn to the ruling of Hellas by the Haxamanishiya. There were times in which the satrapy of Makedonia was ruled jointly with Hellas, as in the time of Marduniya, and times where it was not. Accounting for this toing and froing with Makedonia proves difficult, particularly given that the Persians at the time did not comprehend fully the differences between Makedonia and the other Hellenes in much the same way that the Hellenes could not at first distinguish the Persians from the Medioi. But for the most part, Makedonia was considered separate to the rest of Hellas for the purposes of governance. So too were the Hellenic colonies of Asia, which were governed within their own particular satrapies, and the Hellenic cities of Krete, as the particularly dense numbers of cities proved too difficult to govern from the far removed capital of Thebes. Now we come to the subject of Thebes, the preferred capital of Hellas. This state of affairs began during King Xshayarsha’s conquest of Hellas, when the Thebans decided to make alliance with the King. Being the largest of the Hellenic cities first taken intact it was the natural location for the initial governance of the area, especially because the Persians found that the innumerable cities and peoples of the Hellenes all had to be dealt with differently. In addition, it was only after the naval victory at Salamis that Athens became an inhabited city again, and it was not thought good to elevate the Athenians after their pretensions to lead the Hellenes that had allied against the king. Likewise, Korinthos had not yet been integrated into the Persian governance of Hellas, with the King’s Peace having made it instead a sovereign ally. Thebes also continued to hold the largest garrison among the newly conquered territories of Hellas, and Marduniya’s presence there, until his rebellion and execution, gave an air of permanence to Thebes. This was not without resistance in Thebes, for the leaders of Thebes had not reckoned with a permanent Persian presence in their polis. Those of the Theban aristokratia not disposed to the new situation thus became the centre of a general insurrection.

After the death of Mardonios and the final defeat of the Great Revolt there came time for a decision- would Thebes remain the capital, or would it be moved elsewhere? It was noted that whilst Thebans had led the revolt they had actually been thrown out of Thebes by their compatriots, and Thebes itself had remained loyal on the whole. Given its strategic location, and after the numerous bloody events of the Great Revolt, the decision was taken to show mercy and to keep Thebes as the capital, though there was now a great fortress built near to Thebes with a significant permanent garrison. It is from this point that the governance of Hellas began to change- several regions formerly independent were now conquered, such as Korinthos and the Argolis, and some communities formerly autonomous now had appointed governors, such as Lakonia and Phokis. King Xshayarsha also began to invest in dedicated Haxamanishiya infrastructure in Hellas. He commissioned strategic forts besides that of Thebes, expanded and improved roads, and increased the garrisons present in Hellas. He also provided funds for the next satrap, Fradafarnah, to beautify those Hellenic cities that had proven most dedicated to the King’s cause. Between the total military defeat of the Great Revolt and these gifts and gestures it came to pass that a number of the Hellenes who had been opposed to the King, to the rule of Persians, came to feel differently. It was also the first experiment to see whether the Hellenes of Hellas were capable of anything other than military prowess and competition.

Thebes was then progressively enhanced by the satraps that followed, particularly by the klerarkhal transplants implemented in the early reign of King Artaxshahya which is discussed elsewhere. Thebes was beautified but also elevated to the point of grand palaces capable of hosting a Haxamanishiya king if need be. The archives attached to Thebes also continued to grow in size, and this in turn created a library curated at the direction of the satrap, though which satrap of Hellas actually founded the library is difficult to prove. Thebes swiftly became one of the intellectual hearts of Hellas, as well as its capital. Its citizens were thoroughly integrated into an Asiatic mode of civilization, and it is the example of Thebes that began to persuade many thinkers over the other side of the sea that Hellenes were a natural component of Asiatic civilization as well, albeit Asians that had been isolated and thus made to become warlike and, at times, barbarous. But Thebes was also, at times, a dangerous city- many competed for the favour of the Great King, and the favour of the satrap as well, and in times of unwatchfullness this made political competition particularly bitter and violent. With places of power comes the desire to control it among many of an avaricious nature, and Thebes had become such a place. Indeed, its sumptuous palaces and great resources, linked as it now was to much of the rest of Hellas, had made it an ideal staging ground for a rebellion against the Haxamanishiya if there was any moment of weakness, and in the time of Amavadata as satrap of Hellas there came precisely that sort of moment, with precisely the kind of person who could take full advantage of the opportunity offered. Thebes had, without anyone realising it, been raised to become capable of housing a king’s habitation.

EXTRACTS FROM ANAXANDRA’S BASILEIA

​

So word then reached the Great King, for a fisherman told a merchant, who told a butcher, who told a linen-maker, who told the wife of the vinter, who told the vinter, who told the satrap of Babylonia, who told the Great King. Word from such noble lips had reached the King of Persia, telling him of the quality of this Hellene cook, Monimos, and that he had actually been able to make Hellenic cuisine palatable for the rarefied tastes of noble Persians. King Artaxerxes was immediately intrigued by this, having an appreciation for Hellenic culture in general. He sent word to the satrap at Thebes that he desired to meet with this cook, in order to experience more of what his Hellenic subjects had to offer and become closer to Hellas. In other words, he poached him, and Daiobazarnes was pretty miffed about it. Monimos was one of his most favoured retainers, and he was loathe to release him, but Daiobazarnes was a loyal servant of the Great King, and with a heavy heart he released Monimos, who with a giddy heart began to make his way to Babylon accompanied by the royal messenger. He passed through many of the most beautiful lands of Asia on the way, filled with wine, and gentle wheat fields, and heavenly mountains, and gorgeous women, and beautiful boys, and ancient cities built so long ago that Gigantes played there as children. Then he came to the land between the two rivers of Tigris and Euphrates, where Babylon lies. Much like Aigyptos these lands are only fertile where the great rivers run, but these waters are tamed in massive networks of channels through which they run and nourish the soil, the first of these channels being built by Poseidon. There Babylon, once home to Herakles, sat, a city stretching from one horizon to the other. Here the Great King was staying, and to the Great King went Monimos, who presented himself in front of the King.

“My king, what motivates you to reach out your long arm and move such a small one as me?”
“All of creation is made from small ones, who come together to make big ones under the direction of the wise and powerful. You, who provide knowledge of foods from distant lands, are as interesting to me as any Persian, and the Hellenes are one among my many children. I would have you both closer to me.”
“What would you have me do, my king?”
“I would have you prepare a feast as is common in the fashion of your people, so that I may understand them better.”
So Monimos began the preparations for a feast. He sampled all of the beautiful Persian wines whilst valiantly resisting total drunkenness, in order to find that which was most fitting. He tried all of the fruits which were unknown even in Thebes, to see which would be delicious in the dishes he already knew. He tested all the meats, vegetables, and grains that were available in the king’s larder. By the end of his preparations no man alive knew more about different foodstuffs, their properties, and their preparations than Monimos of Syrakousai. Then he gathered his staff together and arranged the feast, with a legion of other staff to help feed the court of the Great King. As with Hellenic feasts this feast was divided into two halves, with the symposion focusing on the wonderful Persian wine that was available. Monimos laboured all day preparing for the feast, and when at last it was ready the Great King experienced what it meant to eat like a Hellene. He was served beautiful prawns from the coast of Persia cooked with honey, olive oil, garon and black pepper, and served with barley grains; baked leeks and apples with honey and anise seeds; many different kinds of mashed beans, the kind that Herakles loved; at least twenty different kinds of fish, served with caper, pepper, and honey sauces; the finest wheat breads and delicate pieces of barley bread made from the finest Babylonian barley; salads of dandelion, turnip, and asparagus with a vinegar sauce; beautiful tender lamb baked and served with pine nuts, wine sauce, and a bean paste; honeycakes with the most delicate texture imaginable; wild boar meat studded with every spice imaginable. After all of this and more Monimos sent out the wine, which was to be moderated at the discretion of Monimos. Accompanying the hours of drinking were fruits, both honeyed and roasted, nuts of all kinds, and cheeses made of the most fat-filled, creamy milks you could imagine. That night, trust me, it is true, King Artaxerxes ate like a Hellene.

 

[Practical Lobster]

An excellent look into the culture of the time, combined with some tantalizing hints about the broader political situation.

This continues to be a fantastic creative work. However, if there's one thing that confuses me, it's the chronology - mostly because the updates tend to be somewhat non-linear. If I'd recommend one thing, it would be dates, even if just approximate, on the "source texts" that you've created.

 

[Xenophonte]

Asian way...

Apparently for the Hellenes, their only remaining hope of regaining their lost freedom will would be in the traditional Asian way ... The satrap of Hellas, begin to conspiring against the great King, gathering support and gaining personal loyalties between his subjects and building a crisis in the Empire for rise up in rebellion and thus proclaimed himself 'King of Hellas' ...

 

[Daeres]

This continues to be a fantastic creative work. However, if there's one thing that confuses me, it's the chronology - mostly because the updates tend to be somewhat non-linear. If I'd recommend one thing, it would be dates, even if just approximate, on the "source texts" that you've created.

We have been getting to the point where there's just so much to remember, including the non-linear presentation and the lack of dating of texts, that it is getting a bit of a handle. By around page 5 I already had to compile my own personal bibliography of all the 'texts' to keep myself straight. Given that, and your entirely reasonable point, I spent the past 24 hours making some pages for the timeline on the AH wiki.

We now have online pages showing the entire ATL Achaemenid dynasty, with regnal dates, and a list of all authors/texts in chronological order. I've also got a complete set of links to all the Chapter 1+2 updates, and all those in Chapter 3 so far. I plan to add more to the wiki as well.

 

[Daeres]

Μηδίζω! THE WORLD OF ACHAEMENID HELLAS
CHAPTER 3:XSHAHYAM or BASILEIA

HERODOTOS OF HALIKARNASSOS’ HISTORIA (c.440 BCE)
ON XERXES​

Among all free Hellenes there are two questions which are asked endlessly in these present times; how was a barbarian, this Xerxes, able to overcome the coalition of poleis arrayed against him, and what shall we, the free Hellenes, do now? As for the first question, the answer is divided between circumstance and error. It was inevitable circumstance which drove many of the Hellenes to make peace or alliance with Xerxes, for they did not have the capacity to defend themselves and did not have the support of the Hellenic League. They do not deserve to be deemed Medizers, for they took the only remaining option that presented itself to them. It was error that caused so many wasted opportunities to defend Hellas to pass by, and that caused the battle at Salamis between the two assembled armadas to favour the Persians. The Spartiates have already paid for their misdeeds, and many other Hellenes have done so with their lives. But above all the Hellenes committed a universal error, and that was to underestimate and misunderstand Xerxes himself. They were, and some continue to be, seduced by the notion that Xerxes is a barbarian, that he relies on all of his servants being his obedient slaves, that he has no abilities of his own. This is folly of the highest kind in the face of the considerable abilities that Xerxes brings to bear.

Xerxes rules the greatest Empire that has ever existed. As we have seen it was not created by him, nor much of its current extent added to the original Empire beyond Hellas and Makedonia, but he is of a bloodline of high kings, fierce in their martial prowess and wise in their governance. Xerxes is indeed a tyrant, a king of unnatural power ruling over hundreds of millions of men who could otherwise be free, but he is a wise king, who achieved the conquest of Hellas despite the questionable advisors who helped push him and Dareios, his father, into action against Hellas in the first place. He is cruel, unhesitant in throwing the lives of his lesser servants away to serve his greater purposes, as at the pass of Thermopylai, but will use clemency to weaken the resolve of his opponents, as with the Athenians following the defeat at Salamis. Countless times has Xerxes, king of the Persians, shown himself to be a powerful adversary, and evidence of these occasions have been demonstrated by myself in this undertaking. Those who underestimate him are doomed to fail in their endeavours against him, and doom those who follow them. But Xerxes is not immortal, not invincible, and for all that he possesses many abilities, possessions, and titles that most men would be envious of even individually, he is still consumed by hubris, for his ambitions outreach even the immense gifts that are his by birth, even those immense territories that are grossly swollen against all laws of nature.

This then answers the second question, of what to do to recover our homelands from those who currently occupy them, for we must also resist the continuing ambitions of Xerxes even over the sea. His goal, surpassing nearly all others, is the total conquest of Europa, and he has not remained idle in moving towards this ambition, and when he eventually dies then his heir, if Xerxes has made no movements towards conquest of the free Hellenes by that point, will be driven towards this unfinished goal in precisely the same manner that Xerxes was driven towards completing the unattained conquest of Hellas that was first attempted by Dareios. In either case the means of resistance is twofold; the Italiote League must be preserved, so that all of the Hellenic poleis which even now in Italia growing in splendour and might will unify their forces against any Persian attempt to conquer the lands over the sea. Additionally, the Hellenes must launch expeditions to reconquer their lands, or to defend those Hellenes which are still free and are threatened by Xerxes who do not live over the sea. This aggression must only be conducted, however, when the time is right, when the Persians are lax, when their borders are poorly guarded, when they are distracted by barbarians to the east of their Empire. Under such a king as Xerxes these opportunities may only come rarely, so they must be seized with unparalleled speed when they do, at last, present themselves.

EXTRACT FROM KADMOS’ LIVES OF KINGS (c.390 BCE)
KING XERXES

Of all the kings listed by Kadmos in his work, none are so extraordinary as the first ruler of all the Hellenes who was not himself a Hellene, King Xerxes the Great. Xerxes, son of Dareios, was of an ancient line of kings in Persia, the Akhaimenidai. His father, King Dareios the Great, had made an attempt to conquer Hellas but departed this world before a second, more lasting expedition could be launched. King Xerxes took up this sacred duty, to unite the Hellenes and raise them to new heights, to avenge the depredations of the Spartiates and to tame the Athenians, to extend his dominion over those who would threaten his kingdom’s stability. This was achieved, his sacred duty fulfilled, and a union of Hellenes was born for the first time in the history of Hellas. Agamemnon assembled the first great panhellenic alliance, and the greatest armada and army of Hellenes that had ever been known at that time, but those assembled by Xerxes and his descendants would surpass even those achievements. Xerxes showed clemency to many of those who had fought against his conquest, and further clemency to those who rebelled against him in the Great Revolt, showing his compassion after the treachery and brutality of Mardonios’ atrocities. Those he did not show clemency towards were enemies of peace, inveterately warlike to the point where the only just action was to eliminate them from Hellas. Thus was Sparta reduced, delivering freedom to the Messenioi for the first time in centuries, and restoring a natural order in place of the slave-kingdom which had grown into Hellenic affairs like a weed.

After Xerxes’ conquest of Hellas, and restoration of its affairs after the Great Revolt, he did not rest on his achievements. When the Hellenes of Taurika attempted to embargo Hellas, removing their grain supply and causing many to starve, Xerxes sent an expedition to force the restoration of the grain supply. He avenged the murder of his son, Dareios, by his traitorous advisor Autophradates, and put down a revolt in Armenia when it was rumoured that Xerxes himself had perished. His reign as King of Persia lasted for forty three years, and as King of the Hellenes for thirty seven years, and was known by some as Xerxes the Old towards the end of his life. There are only a few kings who compare to the greatness of King Xerxes Dikaios when it comes to the sum of their achievements, and the impact they had upon the strength of Hellas, and Kadmos will now explain King Xerxes’ achievements in greater detail.

BIBLIOTEKHE HISTORIKE BY MOHANE (29 CE)
ON XERXES THE GREAT​

There are few alive who have not heard the name Xerxes, or who are unfamiliar with King Xerxes the Great, but in the five centuries since his reign many myths and untrue deeds have been associated with this unparalleled King, and we must establish base truths about this titan of history. King Xerxes was born as son to King Dareios, and was not in any way fathered or mothered by a Hellene, as many have claimed. His father, as we have seen, had inherited and strengthened the great Empire founded by Kyros, and Xerxes would continue the legacy of the Akhaimenidai accordingly. When he became king the realm of Hellas had become a sore spot for the Akhaimenidai, frequently being the cause of warfare or diplomatic incidents on their western border. With Dareios’ expedition against the Hellenes having failed, Xerxes’ first goal as the next King of Persia was to finish what had been started, though he was interrupted in this by revolts in Babylon which occurred over a period of several years. To do this he assembled an immense army, not an army of ten million, nor one million, but an army of five hundred thousand gathered from all quarters of the Empire. He then bridged the Hellespont with an immense, man-created bridge, the like of which has never been seen or attempted since. He and his army passed through first the realms of the northern barbarians and then into Makedonia, whereby the King of the Makedonians Alexander was compelled to give allegiance to King Xerxes. Then began his expedition into Hellas.

Those of small power or who valued survival aligned with Xerxes nearly immediately, and many of those who did not initially submit were quickly forced to do so by the progress of Xerxes’ forces and his installation of garrisons in key locations. There are many Hellenic poleis who claim to have submitted willingly but the histories speak differently. The Hellenes of potency who aligned against him adopted a strategy whereby they attempted to delay his advance through Hellas until he was forced to depart at the end of the campaign season, whereby they would launch a counterattack. This was a wise policy, but Xerxes was wise to it, and by defeating the navy of the Hellenes at Salamis he was able to subdue the Athenians, quickly occupy the Peloponnesos, and defeat the remaining forces ranged against him. It was not King Xerxes who personally destroyed Sparta, the most hated state in Hellas, but he had given authority to his general Artabazos to make such decisions, nor was he displeased when he learned that this decision had been taken. Neither did Xerxes personally order the Messenioi be restored to their independence, though he did affirm this decision. He then set about ordering Hellas as best he could before departing back to the rest of his Empire. Mardonios was initially appointed satrap of Hellas. Though he was not, as some have said, lacking in ability or entirely malicious, as can be evidenced from his earlier prudent tactics in the invasion of Hellas and a time as successful satrap of the Hellenes, he did cause a general revolt among the Hellenes and effectively revolted against Xerxes by ordering the destruction of Hellenic cities without seeking permission to take such drastic measures. Upon Xerxes arrival he executed Mardonios and restored peace to Hellas, though he did remove the formerly independent status of many regions in Hellas and make them a part of the satrapy proper. He made a visit to Messenia upon his second, and final, journey to Hellas, whereby he reaffirmed the rights and privileges of the Messenioi, and Messenia remains the region of Hellas in which Xerxes is most beloved.

During Xerxes remaining years as king, which were many, there could not be found a foe to master him. The forces of the Hellenes who chose to resist him could not ultimately win out against him, though they fought bravely. Autophradates, who was an advisor to Xerxes and not his bastard son, killed Xerxes’ chosen heir and had aimed to take the throne himself, but King Xerxes utterly defeated Autophradates, and had his entire close family put to death in the cruelest possible fashions.The Hellenes in Taurika, who attempted to withhold vital grain supplies and who raised their banners against them, were crushed, and the more trustworthy Sindoi raised to masters of Taurika in their place. The revolts of Babylon in the early part of the king’s reign, before his expeditions to Hellas, were put down. The incursions of Saka on the north-eastern frontiers were beaten back, and many new tribes of Saka were made to become tributaries of Xerxes instead. The expedition of Perikles of Megathenai and Herodotos of Halikarnassos against Krete was the closest that any men came to mastering Xerxes on the field of battle. Many once said that the claims of victories on Krete by the Megathenian expedition were false, they were simply attempts to frighten those Hellenes that remained loyal to the Persians, but this is known to have been false, and those who still repeat it are poorly educated. Even then they were only able to conquer part of the island of Krete, and were forced to come to terms with Xerxes when both sides proved unable to be defeated in open warfare.

Xerxes remains to this day the perfect example of a king. Indomitable warrior, consummate general, the preserver of his already vast kingdom and successful expander of its boundaries, and one of the most pious rulers that the world has ever seen. His dedication to gods and religious scruples are an example to all that have followed him, even before the coming of the teachings of Boda to Asia. Though this is not so well known in the west of Asia, many Asians elsewhere have claimed that Xerxes had already encountered the teachings of Boda, and made laws in accordance with them. This is not to be believed, and indeed it is to be lauded that such a pious grace could exist in a person, great as they were, who remained ignorant as to Boda and his teachings. The name of Xerxes shall forever provoke fear among the unrighteous, and awe among the morally great, and upon the great steppes of Asia, when a child misbehaves, their parents will get them to behave by saying that if they are disobedient that the great spirit Xeres will come for them.

EXTRACT FROM XANTHIPPOS OF DIKAIA’S XERXES (319 BCE)​

In these times of discourse between the kingdom of the Hellenic Persians and the free Hellenes, of reconciliation between the Hellenes of the west and the Hellenes of the east, what are we to think of such a man, a king, as Xerxes? Not so long ago a man in my position, as a free citizen of Dikaia, would have declared him an enemy of all that is right in the world, a brutal conqueror and a tyrant and a glutton of all the world’s wealth. But I am not so sure that Herodotos was off the mark when he described Xerxes as wise but cruel, skilled but consumed with hubris. It is clear to any thinking man that Herodotos understood Xerxes far better than most, for it was only he, in conjunction with Perikles, who was able to roll back any of Xerxes’ conquests, and he bought the freedom of the western part of Krete for some time afterwards. It is also clear that Xerxes was impossible to defeat on the field, only to delay, and that he was far from stupid. One need only look at the history of all conflicts with that king to see the evidence of this. Those who believed Xerxes stupid fell before him, and those who relied purely on the idea that they were righteous and that he was an impious and barbarian king who would get his due fared equally poorly. He also had capable and skilled generals under his command, equally capable of gaining victories against the Hellenes even without the supervision of their King. Mardonios, Artabazos, Hystapses are all figures of some dread in the history of the free Hellenes, and for good reason. But those who claimed to write history and which tried to portray these men as the only reason that Xerxes ever won anything, as the sole reason for Xerxes’ success in Hellas, were liars, and guaranteed that further progress against the Persians would not be made.

Nor is it possible, in good faith, to say that Hellas under the rule of Xerxes and his descendants, or under these newer rulers descended from Amavadatos, is desolate or entirely unhappy. There are many sycophants that dwell in the satrapy of Hellas, in the lands of our ancestors, and the worst of them are intolerable to deal with, a breed apart in their entirety, but most of the Hellenes who have been under the yoke of the Persians have simply tried to get by. Given the strength of their conquerors, and the brutal ways in which Hellenic revolts have been put down, who can blame them? Not only that, there are Hellenes who have cause to be grateful to the Persians, in particular the Messenioi who had been under the dominion of the Spartiates. They were raised up from their servitude, and gained freedom over their own lands once again. Now it is possible to say that it is only the fact that the Persians benefited them specifically that cause the Messenioi to respect them so, and this is nothing more than the most base kind of gratitude manifesting as respect, and that is not entirely without merit, but it is sufficient evidence to say that some of the eastern Hellenes enjoy more freedom and justice than they previously experienced. Others can report similar. In addition, the roads and similar construction projects that Xerxes and his descendants commissioned have enabled trade and discourse between landbound Hellenes on a scale our ancestors would not have known. Yet Mardonios and Xerxes caused a number of Hellenic cities to be razed, and this should not be forgotten, even though the Spartiates were disliked by most other Hellenes this must be included within this category of atrocity. Neither were the Hellenic cities freed from interference, and these eastern poleis no longer have freedom of foreign policy. In addition the mood is to celebrate kingship, even at times at the expense of those poleis who have retained their constitutions gained at the expense of kings. This attitude extended towards kingship is because of the visible strength of the kings like Xerxes, Artaxerxes, and once again because of these modern descendants of Amavadatos.

We can and should still point to Xerxes as the cause of a lack of interest in general liberty that has become endemic throughout Hellas, which must be corrected in our dealings with our homelands. In addition, he is the reason that argument and debate have become muted, though not silenced, in Hellas proper, comparing the philosophical texts and histories written by those such as Xenokritos with those written in Italia and elsewhere is like comparing the speech of babes to that of fully grown adults. We must restore what has been lost. Xerxes was cruel, frequently, and we must never forget or forgive these things. We must remember all of the cities he caused to be knocked down, all of the prominent men and women he caused to be killed, and witness the multitudes that had to flee his imminent conquest. Neither must we ever allow ourselves to love his lust for conquest. But perhaps I can acknowledge his personal bravery, his martial skill, his political intelligence and his common sense, and also that he did not entirely treat the homeland of the Hellenes without respect.

EXTRACT FROM THE ISONOMIK OF HISTORY (1679 CE)
​

How the scholar’s heart leaps when they turn to the era of King Xerxes! An era of titanic struggles across the face of the earth, of great kings and noble demokrats, of vast armies, and the foundation of the world in which we live. What exemplary men there are to study! What talents! It is no wonder, therefore, that among the skeptikoi it is by far the preferred area of study, with the sole exception of the meteoric rise of the Tyrsenoi. It is the study of these two periods and places that forms the core of what we understand to be proper arkhaioteria, the necessary education of all of those who would become valuable in our society, and of these two periods the Xerxian is by far the most fascinating. Picture, if you will, King Xerxes, handsome specimen of a noble lineage of Asian kings, ruthless, determined, born to all the talents his ancestors commanded, long-lived beyond all expectation. The importance of this one man in our history cannot be understated, especially as we understand him to a more subtle and nuanced degree than those Hellenes which had initial cause to despise him for taking control of their homeland. He is also a picture of unequalled ambition which fascinates and which, to some degree, appals. His legacy shines through even into our history, in lands which never felt the touch of his boots or the presence of Persian soldiers.

Then picture the quality of his opponents! Aiskhylos, the poet-warrior, veteran of the great battle of Marathon against Xerxes’ father, Dareios, hammer of the Persians until his dying day; Perikles son of Xanthippos, the arch-demokrat of early Megathenai, champion of the Italiote League and architect of Megathenai’s greatness, crafty beyond all measure; Herodotos, the prince of Halikarnassos who came among the exiled Athenians, who created the entire western tradition of historia, and who near the end of his life would lead armies in the struggle to liberate Krete; Kimon, the lifelong anti-monarchist, the great skeptikos of Megathenaic literature but also the firebrand who alienated his own patriotic fellows; Sophokles son of Sephilos, the first (and some would say greatest) dramatist of history, who wielded his stylus as his weapon against the might of Xerxes, and who carved up the face of his opponent with his satires, tragedies, and comedies; Phyrnikhos, Sophokles’ only rival for king of the tragedies, who sought to capture the grief of the Hellenes in exile and harness it into steely determination to reclaim their homeland. For all that King Xerxes was, by himself, a man of impossible power, he was also the making of his opponents, and much of the measure of the man is in the qualities he inspired among the western Hellenes after the disaster at Salamis. He inspired them to create new societies, stronger ones, in the lands of Hesperia and beyond, including the lands of my own people’s ancestors, the Massaliotes. The foundation of glorious Massalia rests on the determination instilled by Xerxes in the citizens of ancient Massalia, as does the foundation of our greatest friends and foes. He has as big a part to play in the creation of our arkhait culture as the Hellenes and the Tyrsenoi. The height of this legacy came with the reunion of western and eastern Hellenes, the Great Reconciliation. The best parts of what each had discovered were brought together and rose the world around them to new heights. Even the end of the arkhait world, with the collapse of both Tinian and Imerian Empires, would not undo the progress that had been made, and brought about a new, Hellenistic, world.

TELEO or AKUNAVAM: END OF CHAPTER 3​

 

[Shevek23]

...Even the end of the arkhait world, with the collapse of both Tinian and Imerian Empires, would not undo the progress that had been made, and brought about a new, Hellenistic, world.

Unless I'm completely disoriented, "Tinian" suggests an empire centered on the Etruscans, though federated with other Italian, Celtic, and Hellenic elements.

I am completely lost regarding the "Imerians," except to grasp at the straw that the name might perhaps be a variation on Arabic "Emir," so some sort of Semitic-led conglomerate. Perhaps connected to the Idumite ascendency mentioned upthread?

"Emir" is a humble title compared to "malik," "king"; it just means "commander" and became popular as a title of a local supreme magnate only in the context of Islam, under which all people are supposed to be brothers under a wisely chosen and wise universal caliph; I don't observe much use of the pre-Mohammed terms of royalty--I don't know whether the "king," as his title is given in English, of Jordan for instance is called "Malik" or something else entirely, or just what Arabic title the Saudi monarch goes by.

Since "Idum's" moment in the sun was under a ruler of notable piety, I suppose the classical ("arkhait") eastern regions might have come under a Semitic leader inspired, perhaps, by the teachings of "Boda," that is to say some variant of Buddhism, and its rulers took a relatively humble title (that probably got exalted over time, as "Imperator" did among the Romans OTL).

The sketch of the "arkhait" era then seems to be: Persian rule as part of a unified Persian empire in old Hellas, and the rapid formation and growth of a constellation of anti-Persian exile communities in Italy and elsewhere to the west. Followed by the consolidation of the latter under Etruscan leadership and the foundation of a Western empire, while first the old heartland of Hellas split off from the Persian Empire under a rebel Persian dynasty, which conquered and was strong both east and west of the south Balkan core region before in turn succumbing to some sort of decay, while meanwhile in the southeast, between Egypt and Syria somewhere, Hebrews, Arabs, and other relatives of these fermented and formed a new theocratic power base that founded some major empire in the east.

The reconciliation of the eastern, "Medianized" Hellenes and their die-hard rebel western cousins might have come as early as the formation of the rival, cadet, Hellas-based new dynasty, but that seems a bit early to me--rather severing ties with greater Persia and then, on a strongly though not exclusively Hellenic base carving out a new empire would instead have served to limit and neutralize the animus against the original Persian conquerors--so job half-done but not completely. Whatever happens in the at this point vague endgame of this second dynasty--whether the Tinian regime conquers and holds Hellas itself and thus reunifies the wings directly, or if there is a general interregnum in the middle as ornery Greek Poleisoi turn the region into a shattered checkerboard while the empires consolidate to east and west, or what, I don't know.

But it looks like ironically the conquered zone gradually achieves independence on its own terms, while the freedom-loving fugitives may fall under the thrall of a third party, thus balancing the scales of fanatical ethnocentrism versus compromise.

 

[Daeres]

I am completely lost regarding the "Imerians," except to grasp at the straw that the name might perhaps be a variation on Arabic "Emir," so some sort of Semitic-led conglomerate. Perhaps connected to the Idumite ascendency mentioned upthread?

I am notoriously mean with spoilers, but since it's the end of the chapter I think I will point you towards a notion as to the Imerians.

Now, as much as you've been basing this on the only explanation to make sense for you, a decent chunk of what you guessed based on it still holds true in some form, so well done! Rather than be cruel and make you guess, you were 100% correct about things relating to Italy and nearby, about the eventual adoption of a humble title as a major one (though how you guessed that correctly from entirely a different basis is... very suspicious!), about the integration of Buddhism in a form with the government of 'Asia' in the late 'Arkhait' era, and indeed the actual form of what the 'Arkhait' era is and means.

Something that I want to, rarely, go into more detail about is this.

The reconciliation of the eastern, "Medianized" Hellenes and their die-hard rebel western cousins might have come as early as the formation of the rival, cadet, Hellas-based new dynasty, but that seems a bit early to me--rather severing ties with greater Persia and then, on a strongly though not exclusively Hellenic base carving out a new empire would instead have served to limit and neutralize the animus against the original Persian conquerors--so job half-done but not completely. Whatever happens in the at this point vague endgame of this second dynasty--whether the Tinian regime conquers and holds Hellas itself and thus reunifies the wings directly, or if there is a general interregnum in the middle as ornery Greek Poleisoi turn the region into a shattered checkerboard while the empires consolidate to east and west, or what, I don't know.

So, when Xanthippos (of the late 4th Century BCE) is talking about reconciliation, this is him referring to a relatively recent thawing between the 'Mede' aligned Greeks and the 'real' Hellenes, which you have read correctly as partially occurring because of the Amavadatid state, which maintains friendly relations with some of the exile states and is in general somewhat Hellenised. However, the fact that Xanthippos is talking as though he is relatively new in taking a more equitable approach to the 'Mede-Hellenes' is not a coincidence, he is still writing in an environment in which some amount of hostility is expressed. The contrast is essentially between fanatics or cultural snobs in the 'free' Hellenic vs those who essentially are 'I don't care, it's my homeland (that I haven't ever seen and only my father or grandfather remembers it), come to my arms', at least a little bit. At the time of writing it is much more of an end to the informal embargo of Hellas proper by much of the 'free' Hellenes, and exchanges in movement, even if those exchanges result in constant argument.

He is writing at the start of the 'Great Reconciliation' that our later author, writing the Isonomik, is referring to. In the historiography our later author writes in the Great Reconciliation is something analagous to the Renaissance, i.e a period of escalating change rather than a specific event, and covers an extended period of cultural and social rapprochement between the two Hellenic 'clubs'. If the end product is full cultural reintegration of both 'halves' of the Hellenic world, that does not occur in 319 BCE, but some time later.

As for the interregnum post Amavadatid state, some hint is given with the 17th century reference to a 'Hellenistic' era that is starting several centuries after what we call a 'Hellenistic' era, and in vastly different circumstances...

 

[Practical Lobster]

Yet another amazing update. Loving the hints about the future world as well.

 

[Xenophonte]

Apparently in TTL, the classical world...

Interesting update and apparently in TTL, the classical world ,besides being of Hellenistic culture in its entirety and not only partially as in OTL.

It will be divided politically into two, resulting in a reverse political and cultural situation, to OTL.

Reconciliation of both sides of the Greeks, is a pleasant news ... but this reconciliation will be political, cultural or perhaps both at once?

 

[Daeres]

Μηδίζω! THE WORLD OF ACHAEMENID HELLAS
CHAPTER 3
EPILOGOS

The interview begins now.

I beg your forgiveness for my laughter, nameless one, but I cannot remember the last time I was actually surprised by something! It’s been so long. Here I am, taught for my many years to expect particular things, and here you are, who are not, I believe, any of those particular things! I had forgotten what a joy it is to encounter the unexpected. Perhaps it is rare for you to be a welcome presence to those who meet you, but I, for one, am happy to meet you. I hope I find you well.

An interview? But one without any questions I see. Or perhaps there is one question, unspoken; ‘what would you like to be interviewed about?’.

Well, I’d like to be interviewed about the things I could never tell anyone, despite being surrounded by legions of people who constantly needed to talk to me about everything. You would be surprised how many such secrets I kept to myself, for when I was a younger man there was rarely a thought that I kept totally hidden. It was partially on purpose- the moods of someone in the public eye to my degree should bring terror in their wake- but some of it was my genuine rashness and eagerness to emulate my father’s magnificent deeds. But you discover that such things do not last when you gain in years, and one of the things which I have kept to myself my entire life is that there was a long time, a long time, where I lost my faith in the innate goodness of man. Or rather, in the existence of an innate goodness of man. I became too familiar with the ins and outs of selfish men, of all nations. Too aware of my own desires, many as they were. Too aware of the real, true necessities required to keep civilized societies on an even footing. Too acquainted with casual cruelty, including at times my own. The whole world seemed to be tinged with it, even those with nearly nothing to their name still committing countless cruelties to one another, betraying loved ones and family. Goodness was only created by Gods, and through them priests, as a decoration to human existence to make it bearable, an alcohol for the soul. My next secret is that I regained this faith, very late on. I was an old man by then. Yet I suddenly found myself confronted by an old man, and at his side another old man, both filled with passion and intelligence and humanity, after a fashion. Foreigners, foes, barbarians, but nonetheless they were dazzling. Surrounded by men who attached to their cause from a genuine belief in what they were doing, and why they were there, not simply a chance of power being offered to them. It was invigorating. I hadn’t felt so full of life for twenty years. It was my last great conflict, and perhaps my finest. Victory against the Hellenes was completing my father’s task in the world but felt unsatisfying, for there I was, King of Lands, with my armies from all of the finest civilizations and warrior peoples on the face of the Earth, against proud but primitive peoples who could not realistically hope to oppose me. There had been a spark there, a vitality that had impressed me. At the time I thought it a curiosity that would come to nothing. Perhaps it still will, but here, in this place, I wonder if those people simply need more time before they set the world on fire, for I saw the flames awoken in the march of Herodotos the scribe-prince and Perikles the king of the kingless.

I have another secret that I was not sure I would share, even now. When I was young, and first gaining the throne, Artabarzana was detestable to me. He was my elder but of common origins, I saw him as ambitious above his station and claiming what had been rightfully mine by my talents and my father’s wishes, attempting to defy the natural order of things. As I grew older I came to envy him- I had thought my sacred duties to be glorious, and then swiftly found, after my wars came to an end, that in reality it was a burden, day in day out. Every little pore of skin subject to countless observations, every little movement analysed, every single decision affecting millions and millions. I do not regret holding power, because I took my sacred duty seriously, because it was my right to hold it, but… perhaps I grew to regret how it was used. I do not know if you have met many kings of such large domains before, but I wonder how many of them have told you how much time is wasted dealing with innumerable relatives, appeasing their whims, chastising their excesses, monitoring their activities in case of rebellion, granting them estates for sustenance. I did not realise how much time my father must have spent on petty dealings regarding some cousin’s gardens and mules, because the Gods know that I have spent an entire lifetime doing the same. Likewise, I did not recognise casual cruelty for what it was when I was younger, it was simply how one behaved as a king, how my father behaved as king, how everyone expected a king to behave. I do not know that I like how much time I spent on such cruelties, how much attention I devoted to them; once I had realised them to be the cruelties that they were I did not engage in them as frequently, but there was only so much cruelty that could be avoided whilst being King, some amount is necessary to maintain such a thing as an Empire stretching from the Yauna to the Hindush river. Perhaps creating such a thing in the first place was wrong, but that was not my choice to make, I came into the world with it already in place, and with sacred duties upon my head. I had not the gall to refuse them.

I am finding myself strangely comforted, silent one, precisely because of the silence in fact. Your silence, the silence of this place. I do not know if it will last, but I will enjoy it while I may. True peace, and quiet when I desired it, are something that has escaped me for over forty years. Perhaps that is the description of monarchy which should be given to all prospective kings; ‘endless labour to create beautiful gardens whilst never having the time to ever enjoy them’. This is not a garden, but it is peaceful. Are you a king, I wonder? Guardian of the helpless, hammer of the evil, arbiter of the powerful? If you are then you have my commiserations, o King, and hope that you have time to rest in your gardens. Though I fear you have also met many of my foes, and may not take my wishes in the spirit in which they are intended. Though there are far fewer of them that died cruelly at my hands than many have said. The idea that such things were done at my order was far more infectious among my foes than the reality of my ordering them or not, that was perhaps the first realisation I had about cruelty. I also realised that many outside the Empire called me a cruel despot whilst committing far more naked indignities on their own peoples, and relying as they did on the slave labour of others. I rarely found I had the time for contempt but that, that made me shake my head, even as an old man. The world is a complex and often stupid space in which to live, and I have seen all of its complexities laid out before me. I am ready, I think, to leave it behind.

The interview is over.

 

[Kaiphranos]

Just wanted to say--I ran across this recently, and have found it very interesting. I'm glad to see it updating again. The interview segment are particularly clever, especially as a contrast to the "historical" sources...

 

[Faeelin]

This continues to be my favorite timeline around here.

 

[Shevek23]

The interviews also raise some metaphysical questions!

Is this some sort of afterlife, the annex of a human life where a dispassionate judge simply records whatever it is each person wants to babble into the eternal silence, to sum up and justify their lives before they...what? Are consigned to some state of penance before achieving the peace of total extinguishment? Eternal heaven or hell per the Abrahamic religions? (Or rather the messianic successors to the Hebrew concepts--the writings of the Old Testament never refer to eternal bliss; either the focus is wholly on what is righteous behavior in this life, or there is passing mention of Gehenna or Sheol that all souls pass into regardless of their merits or demerits).

Do they reincarnate, assigned to some level of being from microbe to god as determined by karma?

The fact that Buddhism is mentioned as a Great Religion that apparently carves out we don't know how big a niche west of the Levant suggests maybe a Buddhist sort of metaphysics, whereby the wisest soul finds its best fate in the total extinguishment of all attachments, which looks to the unenlightened anyway rather like final death with no afterlife whatsoever--presumably a soul that accomplished that perfectly would not be lingering around for debriefing!

If I understand Zoroastrianism at all correctly, and some basically Mazdic religion has developed a place in this world alongside the Buddhists, their classic concept is that the principle of "goodness," which might be better viewed as "order," has created the material cosmos in order to shake out the inherent chaos, aka "evil" or "darkness," with individual human beings called upon to labor to uphold and extend order. When they die, their souls are gathered and judged, and as the cosmos approaches the triumph of order, their reformed souls are reincarnated to complete the final drive to order and inhabit the resulting paradise. In which case, all these interviewees, at least the best among them, will be back with a clear realization of what is they did best and worst, and a clear resolve to stick to the best thenceforward. (I don't know whether the consensus among the Zoroastrians was that some souls would be too corrupt to save and these are reduced to chaff, or even also recreated as evil minions to be ultimately, and utterly, defeated and destroyed at the climax of things. Or whether even the worse people would emerge on the side of light, perhaps in an unrecognizably humble and reduced form, being all the meagre good that could be salvaged from them).

-------

Or of course we can circle back to the fact that this is after all a fictional narrative, and lose the illusion that the "interviews" are anything more or less than yet another narrative point of view, in this case the author ascribing what they'd infer the subject would say if given this brief chance to summarize themselves.

Which means their perspective is no more authoritative than any other put forth by any of the alt-historical historians! If these have agendas related to other concerns than their subjects relative to the political world they live in, so does the author.

 

[Daeres]

Μηδίζω! THE WORLD OF ACHAEMENID HELLAS
CHAPTER 4:BAGAHA or THEOI

EXTRACTS FROM EXPLORATION OF KAUKASOS (1430 CE)
OLD AMIDA
​

There before me lay one of the great capitals of the antique world, the capital of Asia’s great Imerian dynasty, and a holy city of the Bodistai. An observer is immediately made aware of the richness of its surroundings- it is in this district that the river Tigris first starts to promote fertility on the surrounding banks, and it is a fecund land covered in diverse croppage. Wheat, dates, honey, zardaloi are all grown here in abundance. It is said that the district of Amida has never known a famine in its history. Its green wealth and copper mines are the constant in the history of Amida’s prosperity. But the grandeur of Amida is well in excess of even this material prosperity. Gone are the days when Amida was the Pillar of the World, Queen of Cities, but if this is Amida in her dotage then what a city she must have been in her young days! Even know she houses three hundred thousand persons. Grand palaces, called tachar by the locals, litter the city, associated both with the modern rulers of the city (in these present days it is the Amidna) and Amida’s rich and powerful. The houses even of the ordinary citizens are of beautiful stone, though not all are well kept by their owners. The city’s markets are a sea of colour and heady mixture of spices, and are the source of many of the spices to be found in our homeland, though I discovered that the rich men of the city are disdainful towards this market, associating it with immorality and vanity.

Most grand of all, however, are the Bodistes complexes. In Amida. Such complexes are known there, and in the rest of the Kaukasos, by many names; Darbihara, Darbizachar, Bichara. The Bichara of Amida is known across Asia as the grandest of them all, having survived two attempts in Asia to purge the Bodistai, and indeed remained intact after both occasions. There are twelve bikus houses, and the oldest is said, by the Bodistai of Amida, to have been founded by the great king Bumemitra, grandson of the conqueror Agnemitra. All of these bikus houses draw their shrines and dwellings off a single great courtyard, and the sights within are concealed from the outside by a great door for a part of the day. I did make notice that this was generally the coldest parts of the day, particularly the night, and thought it comforting that even a bikus might find cold discomforting. I was permitted to stay in one of the bikus houses overnight, and was treated as a most welcome guest. This was the bikus house that, it is said, was founded by the Gimi king Moga after his recognition of the Boda. It is indeed unusual, in my experience, for the interior of a bikus house to be so richly decorated, in bright yellows, blues, and reds. As is the case with all grand buildings in the Kaukasos there is a ceiling window, through which light permeates the courtyard of this bikus house, and the rim of the window is decorated with golden illustrations of animals, which the bikuses did warn me caught the light at awkward angles across parts of the day. I enjoyed the same foods as the monks at dinner time, whereupon I was served a rice dish of the kind that all associate with the Bodistai. However, this dish included badenka, and lemon, and tasted as though it had been cooked in wine. I was most confused by this until I found out from a merchant of Amida that there is a kind of grape juice that is given or sold to the Bodistai in the Kaukasos to be used for cooking in imitation of wine. The rice dish was most exquisite, and the Bodistai cooks of the Kaukasos are more subtle than those of their western enclaves I deem, particularly with their spices. There were also the leaves of strawberries with dali wheat and herbs, and the most delightful candied lemon. They do not know the making of plakenta here but had heard of the practice among the western Bodistai, and were most curious to see what I knew of such things.

The next day was when I visited the stopai of Amida. They are almost beyond count, as though the stopai that are in the west were infertile compared to their cousins further east. I have since found out that such plenteous stopai in such a small area is an ancient practice long fallen out of fashion among the Bodistai, which accords well with what the bikuses told me, that is that the stopai are mostly refoundations of those from the Imerian era. Those of the Kaukasos have a particular style, that is where the sloped body of the stopa is surmounted by a conical peak, sometimes surrounded by smaller such peaks on the lower reaches of the mound. The oldest are not particularly large or tall, the youngest are enormous creations of stone. Then there is the temple of Amida itself; the chambers extend ontwards from its central vault like the spokes of a wheel, which each chamber having its own conical dome, and then above the vault is a great round dome. Like many temples of the Bodistai most of the temple’s decoration is primarily rendered in stonework and inscription, lacking in precious materials or paintings, but upon entering I noted one of the eight chambers contained remnants of aged walls which illustrated scenes from the beliefs of the Bodistai, and I wonder if in a different time the Bodistai were less austere with their sacred spaces. The interior of the temple felt cavernous and unworldly, as a temple ought, with each of the eight chambers having a tall roof, and the central vault being extended aloft by the hollowed out interior of the dome that I had seen from the exterior. In the centre of that vaulted space was the statue of the Boda that one expects in all of their temples, and there I gave offerings and wellwishes to him. The bikuses were beginning one of their laughing prayers and I took my leave at that time, wishing them well, and avoided turning my back to the statue for some steps before going on my way. I am not, as I have said many times, a follower of the Boda or Bodistai, but in his own country it does well to respect the Boda, as the Bodistai that dwell among the Hellenes themselves respect the gods and sophoi in our homeland.

THE REPORT OF MITRDATA ON ARABESTANA (c. 200 BCE)

To the king, my lord: your servant, Mitrdata. Good health to the king!

Having arrived at Mariba on the 16th, and speaking with the King Anmar, I am ready to report on the piety of Arabestana and its general wellbeing. I find that the wihara are particularly healthy and respected in the following regions- Muscat, Haxar, Divva, and Mariba itself. However, the wihara at Divva has been damaged by an earthquake, and repairs are still underway. I am told that the local governor only reluctantly released the men and funds to repair it, and only after other local governors threatened to report him to yourself, the King of Kings. In general those who dwell in cities and the fertile parts of Arabestan are most receptive of Budda, especially in those areas where the priests have established friendly relationships with the priests of the Arab gods, or where they have been able to alleviate some amount of poverty. However, whilst they are not entirely unfriendly towards Budda, the Arabs of the deep desert remain at arm’s length, and some associate the acknowledgement of Budda with the civilized cultures that they are generally unfriendly with. Those who are more receptive are still leery, because they continue to find the customs associated with the Budda strange, but this will change in time. Pilgrimage from those Arabs who have become devout is increasing, and the revenues generated from this are being collected without corruption.

As for the general state of Arabestana there is a good opinion as to the peace which the king and his esteemed fathers have established over the land. Many of the Arabs have themselves made far more profits from the trade in incense than ever before, and I might recommend that perhaps taxes be raised to prevent the undue clumping of wealth and coinage in Arabia. What causes discontent, of a sort, are affairs involving Axum and Mudraya. Previously Arab kings had enjoyed friendly relations with Axum but now, at this present time, the King of Axum is hostile to the king, my lord, for he fears the strength of your navy and the idea that the King might launch an expedition to conquer his kingdom. He tries as best as possible to cut off the lands of the king my lord from trade to the south and west, and to some degree succeeds. Mudraya says nothing outwardly unfriendly to King Anmar or to the king, my lord, but King Anmar is aware of attempts by agents of Mudraya to induce disorder in Arabestana. They believe that they can make war upon the Hadadu but only if the king, my lord, has his attention turned elsewhere.

Should I send word to the King of the Hadadu my lord? Should King Anmar receive instructions as to Axum and Mudraya? Does the king wish for punitive measures on Axum or Mudraya?

All garrisons and forts in Arabestana are reporting that things are well, the commander at Haxar in parcticular wishes me to send his eternal thanks for the reinforcements that were sent to him, just in case his own arrive after my message to you does by some unforseen chance. Things in Arabestan are prosperous and peaceful, you may be glad.

THE SOPHOI BY KADMODOROS (88 CE)
THE SOPHOI OF ASIA​

It was a central conceit of my ancestors that the Hellenes were the only civilized people, bar the Aigyptoi, in the world. It was after much hardship that we discovered that much of the Asian world thought of us as the uncivilized barbaroi knocking at the door of the peaceful world, the warrior savages good for fighting and little else. Both had much to learn from one another, it emerged, and both would find themselves changed. The Hellenes as in the days of Solon and Khilon are gone, though their wisdom remains with us, or even as in the days of Herodotos and Xenokritos. We are one, we are many, and we are together. We must also look to wisdom from abroad, in particular from Aigyptos and Asia, if the Hellenes are to continue their long-delayed rise that has, at last, come about, and we must acknowledge the Asian wisdom that has already changed our people so much.

One of the Sophoi of ancient times who was not a Hellene was Kadmos, born Phoenician royalty but founder of Thebes and first king of that city, who also founded all of its temples. An incarnation of the Gods’ will, he slayed the dragon of the waters at Thebes, and wore the panoply of Hephaistos which marked him out as the instrument of the gods. He defended the Hellenes in ancient times from the demons that threatened to overrun it. Not least of all, he brought the divine art of writing to the Hellenes from the Phoenicians, through which we render law, no longer as in the most ancient times carried on by word of mouth, and also carry on our stories of the gods, and our sophoi.

Another sophos of Asia was Bodda, who lived in India many centuries ago. It is he who first developed the school which bears his name, the school that teaches men that through ataraxia is a root to contentment and piety, and the first to desire his teachings be spread among all men. It is from his wisdom that we come to understand what a sophos is, and their place in the religious heritage of the Hellenes, that humankind is eternally blessed with the sophoi elevated by the gods, and the very best of them achieve ataraxia through their piety and devotion to the Hellenes and to all men. We must acknowledge Bodda to have been a sophos, for he is foremost among those Asians that we acknowledge as wise, even though devotion towards Bodda and his school is not common in Hellas. We need not built stopai and temples in his name to respect his wisdom.

There is also Zoroastres, the great illuminator, who understood that the universe was a struggle between the forces of goodness and the forces of evil, and that all mankind should strive towards affecting the outcome of this conflict. It is from Zoroastres, an ancient Persian, that we gain meaning to our worship of the Gods beyond simple piety and fellowship, the brotherhood of humans who worship the Gods are a stand against the encroachment of demons who would drive the universe towards destruction. From him we began to truly understand how to value the Gods, and it is from Zoroastres and Bodda together that we realise that this knowledge must be extended towards as many as possible in the great, uncivilized wastes of Europa. The Istros river is a great road through which knowledge of humanity’s role in saving mankind must travel, touching the lives of the unilluminated, teaching them to understand their Gods as their protectors and, through devotion to them, their liberators.

EXTRACTS FROM THE STORY OF THE BUDDHA (1655 CE)
ORPHIC BUDDHISM​

Of all of the myriad interpretations of Buddhism that emerged in the antique world there are none so strange as that of the Orphics who converted to the ways of the Buddha. It is said that it was introduced to them by a tax collector, not long after the collapse of the Amavadatid state and soon after the formation of the Hellenic Symmachia, who himself was a Buddhist, and who had gone among their communities to talk with them about the teachings of the Buddha. This tax collector was named Eusebios, and names of such formulation (eus- prefixed compounds) were indeed common among the small communities of Hellenic Buddhistry. The sources that discuss such things indicate that Eusebios successfully convinced a number of the Hellenic Orphic communities to venerate and carry on the Buddha’s teachings, by virtue of their many seeming similarities to their own principles and because of the eminent wisdom in what he had said on various matters. But this was only a number, not all, and a sizeable (if lesser) number had a more angry reaction to this attempt at conversion, stating that Buddha was clearly a demon who attempted to take the devout away from a true understanding of the universe and piety. A number of these conservative Orphics would end up departing to Italia, where the Hellenic communities remained mostly untouched by the influence of any of Buddha’s followers. They came to join the remaining Pythagorean communities, and were probably an influence in the Second Pythagorean Revolution which broke out less than forty years later, which resulted in harsh measures from the Tinians and Hellenes alike.

Orphic Buddhistes, meanwhile, were unalike all other Buddhistes in that at first they eschewed the Bihara, as they were called in the Kaukasos in imitation of the Indic Vihara, in favour of extremely decentralised complexes of austere housing amidst their sacred groves and forests. However, they are also the only Buddhistry community of the Hellenes in that time who had the wherewithal to construct a temple to Buddha, which they built at Dion because of the relics to Orpheus that lay nearby, and because it was his mythical place of death. It was said that nobody knew which was more curious, a Buddistric temple in Dion or the Orphics actually venturing forth from their small communities. The temple was far more akin to a Hellenic temple than those Buddistric temples of much of Asia, with the stopai (from Indic Stupa) being more akin to Hellenic stelai and statue-work, being described as ringed with statues and architectural illustrations of humans, but these were also foreign enough even for a Hellas that had seen both Akhaimenid and Amavadatid rule to be immediate curiosities. Some regarded them as an unacceptable foreign incursion, others as a harmless waste of money, others still as a sign of Hellenic integration into Asia, which was rapidly being equated with tolerance of the teachings of Buddha. Many Hellenes gave the temple respect, if not patronage or adoration, but the Makedonians in particular eventually became taken with it. The influence of Orphic Buddhistry on what became Makedonianist religion was quite profound, and a belief in reincarnation was first inculcated in Makedonia by the Orphic Buddhistes.

The Orphic Buddhistes were not well known in the rest of Asia in those early days, apart from in the area of the Kaukasos around Kolkhis, where they had frequent intercourse with the Buddhistes of that region. However, this would change after the First Buddhistry Purge in Asia by the first of the Skythian dynasty, as they were known to the Hellenes and the western Mediterranean, or as they were known in the rest of Asia the Gimi dynasty. After this purge the more enlightened and tolerant king Moga came to the throne, who immediately set about restoring the Buddhistes in view of the cosmic order. He invited the Orphic Buddhistes, who had been made known to him, to come and aid in the rebuilding of Buddistry in those parts of Asia that his forerunners had put to sack. Thus was the Hellenic mode of Buddhistry placed into the heart of Asia, and influenced its subsequent appearance greatly. Orphic Buddhistry as it existed in this time came to an end in the next few centuries; its western outposts in Hellas morphed into what is known to us as Makedonianism, and its eastern members in Asia came to create a new mode of Buddistry there that then absorbed them. Makedonianism has not always been accepted as a mode of Buddhistry but, in my time, is accepted by the Asian Buddhistes as part of their community. The Hellenic influenced Buddistry that grew up in Asia has proven an unbreakable connection between Hellenes and Buddhistry, for though there are still few Buddhistes in Hellas there are many Buddhistes in Asia that are Hellenes or the descendants of Hellenes. This connection has withstood another purge of Buddhistry in the meantime.

 

[Daeres]

For anyone who is curious, that last picture really IS a piece of Hellenistic art from a Buddhist stupa. It's from a stupa at the massive complex discovered at Hadda in Afghanistan in the early 20th century. That is, in fact, an architectural detail that has Atlas 'holding up' part of the stupa, though it's quite zoomed in, and the stupas are all rather large. The stupas there are generally built in a period from the late 1st to the 3rd century CE if I recall, it's been a while since I read the archaeology reports.

Also that picture of an Aramaic papyrus is actually a grain receipt .

 

[souvikkundu25140017]

For anyone who is curious, that last picture really IS a piece of Hellenistic art from a Buddhist stupa. It's from a stupa at the massive complex discovered at Hadda in Afghanistan in the early 20th century. That is, in fact, an architectural detail that has Atlas 'holding up' part of the stupa, though it's quite zoomed in, and the stupas are all rather large. The stupas there are generally built in a period from the late 1st to the 3rd century CE if I recall, it's been a while since I read the archaeology reports.

Also that picture of an Aramaic papyrus is actually a grain receipt .

very interesting, will this purge's radicalised Buddhism and making it more militant to protect itself?

 

[Shevek23]

Was the inclusion of Zoroastres as a sophoi of the Hellenes something that you'd always envisioned happening in this TL?

Speculating on something like this happening in Nassirismo's Dream of the Poison King Pontic empire TL, I reflected that if some Hellenic sages could reconcile the unruly, raunchy Olympians with the framework of Ahura Mazda, they could incorporate anyone's traditional pantheon! I wondered if a Greeked-up Mazdic faith might spread into "barbarian" Europe in lieu of a Christianity that would be butterflied away there (or here), incorporating the trends of Greek philosophy with a more living faith out of Asia. In this case instead of denouncing the local gods of a particular neighborhood as demons to be turned away from, the missionaries would reframe them as the local version of the emanations of the Supreme good power. Thus there might be Celtic, Teutonic, Slavic and who knows what else (Finnic, at least) pantheons clustered around a more or less identical monotheism.

From the reading I did at that time, it seemed to me that such a Mazdic framing would be fairly conservative; not only would regions conserve venerating the same old pantheon, and folk customs that related (perhaps at arms length, the difference between the cult of the royal court and its armed retainers versus the cults of the villages and their wise women and humble cultivators and mothers and so on) to it, but the articles I read characterized the Mazdic mindset as philosophically in support of ordinary, everyday life for its followers (as opposed to creating monasteries or supporting hermits or other renunciates). Basically Ahura Mazda has formed the material universe in order to work out the chaos; humans serve their purpose by living orderly, truthful lives to stubbornly create the divine order brick by brick and standing firm against the temptations of disorder and the Lie. How this "perfect the world" mentality would interact with the predispositions that led to Platonism and Stoicism OTL is an interesting question. One can also see a fault line with Buddhism in the latter's denial of perfecting routine life as a spiritual goal; the Mazdists would have more in common with the Vedics (whom however they are on some other levels sharply opposed to--basically the good gods of Mazdic tradition are the evil Ashuras of Vedism, and the Devai of the Hindus are the devils of Mazdism). Vedic Hinduism also stands for doing one's duty in whatever station the karmic process has situated one and opposed Buddhism as a call to dereliction of Dharmic duty.

It seems plain to me that the reason Vedic Hinduism reasserted itself and pretty much eliminated Buddhism from the core of India was that formed a kind of synthesis, incorporating many aspects of Buddhist philosophy and practice into the Vedic framework. Would Mazdism then first denounce the philosophic transcendentalism of people like Plato or the Stoics, while gradually finding a place within its doctrines for a group of Mazdists with parallel "enlightenment," perhaps in fact the same place they put the approved (after a long period of rejection) reflections of Buddhists?

Also, while if these things are going to happen, these particular quarrels might be settled before the great proselytization of Europe, perhaps fault lines remain from the old debates about whether Buddha or the philosophers were agents of the Lie or whether Truth was revealed in them, and we get schisms between fundamentalists and progressives on these questions, with these ancient fault lines also serving as markers for schism on more modern questions too.

A religion that can adopt many fashions of dress, in the form of local pantheons, might be especially vulnerable to schism, on nationalistic grounds if on no others.

 

[Practical Lobster]

It seems, Shevek, at least from the evidence we have so far, that Buddhism ultimately wins out over Zoroastrianism. In the description of Amida, there's no mention of fire-temples or anything particularly Zoroastrian.

I also don't get the impression that the Greek sophoi are all necessarily part of a single coherent worldview, or one overarching synthesized religion. Indeed, the multiple persecutions of Buddhists alluded to would seem to indicate that at least for a time the Iranian-inspired religions are deeply opposed to the newcomer faith.

 

[Faeelin]

For anyone who is curious, that last picture really IS a piece of Hellenistic art from a Buddhist stupa. It's from a stupa at the massive complex discovered at Hadda in Afghanistan in the early 20th century. That is, in fact, an architectural detail that has Atlas 'holding up' part of the stupa, though it's quite zoomed in, and the stupas are all rather large. The stupas there are generally built in a period from the late 1st to the 3rd century CE if I recall, it's been a while since I read the archaeology reports.

Very interesting, as always. You know, the scene in the Garden reminded me a bit of the Milindapanha, the Questions of King Milinda: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/sbe35/index.htm

The king said: 'When you speak of transmigration, Nâgasena, what does that mean?'

'A being born here, O king, dies here. Having died here, it springs up elsewhere. Having been born there, there it dies. Having died there, it springs up elsewhere. That is what is meant by transmigration.'

'Give me an illustration.'

'It is like the case of a man who, after eating a mango, should set the seed in the ground. From that a great tree would be produced and give fruit. And there would be no end to the succession, in that way, of mango trees.'

'Very good, Nâgasena!'

The scenes where Demeter quakes the Earth to testify of the Boda's merit are left as an exercise to the reader.