So when it comes to democracy, within 'Asia' the received wisdom on democracy becomes 'oh, it's perfectly fine for local governance, absolutely no potential/viability for a proper independent nation'. When it comes to Italy things will get more complicated, and also within the Phoenician world of the western Mediterranean. In general I'm of the same opinion as Shevek, which is that democratic practices can arrive anywhere where it gets an opportunity, but the closest relative to our Athens-Rome conception of democracies is probably the one based on the Carthage-Megathenai-Syrakuse model, and we've mostly only explored the earliest parts of Italy's history in this TL.
Μηδίζω! The World of Achaemenid Hellas
- Thread starter Daeres
- Start date
Chapter 4: Epilogue
Μηδίζω! THE WORLD OF ACHAEMENID HELLAS
CHAPTER 4:BAGAHA or THEOI
EPILOGOS
CHAPTER 4:BAGAHA or THEOI
EPILOGOS
The interview begins now.
It seems the world has left me one more surprise, right at the end. How curious, your appearance is so particular and unmistakable yet I cannot command the words to describe it, nor this space that we now inhabit. Yet I can still recall the myriad wonders of the world I have experienced, indeed the recollections are sharper than ever in my mind; the smell of spices on the wind, the softness of black fertile soil crumbled between the fingers, the thunder of the charging cavalry of Taras, the colours of the lilies of Aigyptos, the chorus of human joy raised at a homecoming hero. There were many times that I wished nothing more than to move across the lands and seas of the world, spending an entire lifetime experiencing and documenting the wonders that seep from the living Ge like rich honey.
But I am, was, also a Hellene. Brought up by Hellenes, speaking the tongue of Hellenes, attuned to the society of Hellenes, pulled by ties to the Hellenes. I could not simply ignore their desire for liberation, for justice. I completed my account of the world in Dikaia, in the company of the new Athenai, and dedicated it to them and all Hellenes. To articulating how Hellenes understood their state of affairs, to making all humankind understand their need for freedom. But I am not a creature only of the Hellenes, and I must confess to you that there were times when being a Hellene felt like a great weight, a limitation on my vision and ambition and conception. What a terrible thing to feel and think, about the people who raised you, cared for you, worried for your behalf, and acted on behalf of your interests in matters of policy. And yet that is the plain truth. I looked to the world of the Akhaimenidai and the horizons seemed to stretch so much farther, the wisdom seemed deeper and more refined, the human wealth limitlessly abundant. So my work grew to be more than advocating for the Hellenes, I could not contain my desire to educate the Hellenes about the world that had begun to overlap with their own, that their fate was now inextricably bound with. I wanted the Parsai to understand the Hellenes, but I also wanted the Hellenes to understand the Parsai, whether to aid the cause of liberation or living a whole and fulsome life within the sight of the Persian king.
As I grew famed among the Italiotes things began to change in my heart. I spent so much time among so many communities of my fellow countrymen, many of them exiled from their homelands, telling them stories of the past, and of the world beyond their own, and I grew to realise that from the Hellenes I had gained my ability to understand the hidden, the local, the history of small places. The desire to understand others as I intimately understood Hellenes had always been a driving force in my seemingly endless quest to understand all peoples and places of the world, and yet it took so long to realise it, and to credit it to its proper source; my upbringing among my own people. Yet at the same time I grew to acknowledge something else; it was from the Parsai that I first acquired a vision of a world far greater than Halikarnassos, far greater even than all the thousand poleis of the Hellenes. I had cause, a duty in fact, to be grateful to both. And I was. Yet I could not vocally do so with my compatriots in Italia, the fierce hatred of those who had subjugated Hellas was still too strong and too instinctual to countenance any belief that Xerxes, the Parsai, Asians in general, had any real value, had any purpose except to be expelled from rightful homelands of the Hellenes. They could only see the Parsai as the enemy, and I realised that I had never seen them as an enemy at all.
My commitment to actual combat in the service of the Hellenes, therefore, I must say, was one that arose from selfish and all too arbitrary decisions as much as any genuine pretension to nobility. It was Perikles, son of Xanthippos, of all Hellenes, who turned out to understand my position. By that time he had come to embody everything about the mission to recapture our homelands, the entire community of willing Italiotes was his to command, yet of all people he understood what it was to lack hatred, to be unable to truly conceive of a foreign people as an enemy. I was able to enter into frank conversation with him as I could do with no other. His curiosity was almost the match of mine but his was focused towards strategy, planning, and building towards a future, not towards understanding the rest of the world. Nonetheless I came to consider him a good friend. When he came to plan his expedition to Krete, to strike the first real blow against Xerxes in decades, it was this friendship with him that led me towards agreeing to his suggestion that I take part, though I was also anxious to make up for what I continued to feel was a lack of conviction in my actions and beliefs. It was his idea, not mine, to have Herodotos the son of Lyxes be made a general of the expedition, and I could not resist for all the Italiotes, who had developed warm feelings towards myself and my stories (and who had a vastly overblown sense of my martial upbringing in Halikarnassos) insisted upon me doing such a thing.
I realise that I am launching into an entire new Historia with you just now, my apologies for taking your time, but it really is how my mind processes thoughts, and how my speech renders the thoughts. Yet I find I am feeling… different. I do not feel such guilt at being a creature of both Hellas and Persia, is that wrong? No, no it is not, I find that thought comes easily to me now, and loudly. No. It is not wrong to belong to two different peoples, to be born into two different worlds and to move between them, let alone to find your own path. What was my own path, in the end? Discovery, discovery of all that I could see, touch, smell, and listen to. Discovery of the world. Ge is vast, and beautiful, and filled with endless wonder, and I do not regret that I spent so much time exploring her riches. I was right to choose the path that had always summoned me. It was not a diversion, an interesting way of avoiding true causes and real commitment, it was a real cause, it was a real commitment. Hellenes must know about the world, Persians must know about the world, humans must know about the world. For their protection, to expand their wisdom, but most of all to honour the gift into which we are all born. I am Herodotos, son of Lyxes, born of Halikarnassos, and I only regret that I did not see more of that gift before my time was completed. I hope that my work may in some way inspire others to complete what it was that I set out to. Whether ruled by themselves, or ruled by others, the true liberation of the Hellenes lies out there, and not within. Now I am in here, and something tells me that more lies beyond this place, and I am ready for my next journey. Thank you for listening to my Historia.
The interview is over.
Well, we still have the Germanic and Celtic peoples, and the Italiotes, as you say.
Golden Apples
Μηδίζω! THE WORLD OF ACHAEMENID HELLAS
CHAPTER 5: SPOROS or CIHYA
Like the sweet apple that reddens
At end of the bough –
Far end of the bough –
Left by the gatherer’s swaying,
Forgotten, so thou.
Nay, not forgotten, ungotten,
Ungathered (till now).
LANDS OF THE HELLENES BY MOIRICHOS OF KORKYRA (577 CE)
MALONIKA
CHAPTER 5: SPOROS or CIHYA
Like the sweet apple that reddens
At end of the bough –
Far end of the bough –
Left by the gatherer’s swaying,
Forgotten, so thou.
Nay, not forgotten, ungotten,
Ungathered (till now).
LANDS OF THE HELLENES BY MOIRICHOS OF KORKYRA (577 CE)
MALONIKA
The land of Hellas, under the dominion of the Amavadatid sovereigns, soon earned another name, one that continues to be used by the learned and the wise; Malonika, the land of apples. The apple tree and the power of these Persian overlords were utterly bound together, with the former being utilised as the symbol of the latter from the moment that the satrapy of Hellas began to mint Amavadatid drakhmai instead of Persian darics, the moment that Amavadatos began his defiance of the King of Kings. Whilst the Amavadatids had come to understand the unruly Hellenes, how to talk to them, persuade them to useful action, and how best to put them to utile purpose, they also understood the value of what they called then doxa, majesty, to stabilise their rule, especially given the enormity of the Persian Emperor that they were replacing in the Hellenic mind. In this one of their prime tools was their command over the landscape and its natural features incarnated in a particular monumental form, the garden. First introduced by the Akhaimenid Empire, for who else could have originated such a concept rooted in control and dominance, the garden had spread to all parts of Hellas that desired to appear attuned to their Persian masters, along with those wishing to impress and overawe their own Hellenic peers. The Amavadatids further refined this concept to suit the nature of Hellas, combining Persian engineering with Hellenic experience. Unruly hills were neatly terraced, water was drawn from high mountains, and by great labours enormous, verdant orchards were created in places that had previously only been able to grow barley and feed animals. And they were the first to introduce the apple orchard to Hellas.
These orchards were a symbol of the Amavadatid ability, and desire, to manipulate nature to their wills, in this they showed their Persian inheritance. But this was not a wonder that was kept to themselves, for these orchards would be awarded to those of their subjects who were considered particularly virtuous. This was intended to be both reward and responsibility, for only with great and efficient labour would these orchards be maintained either for beauty or for true agriculture. Those unable to maintain these orchards would swiftly find themselves removed from the circle of the king and shunned by his ministers and favourites. Gardening and virtue are close companions, as the Amavadatids correctly recognised, and so this gift of orchard was of far higher mind than the oftentimes gaudy gifts of the Akhaimenid Emperor.
The apple was once a mark of the highest luxury to Hellenes, in our earliest tall tales we spoke of it as something hoarded by divinities like treasure, something to start a war over. You can imagine the reaction to the fact that, thanks to the Amavadatids, apples and their trees were everywhere in the land, a fitting symbol of the abundance that now struck a land that had been thought of as barren and harsh. When the Amavadatids descended into civil war, when Hellas saw war for the first time in two centuries, even the warlords and tyrants of that era avoided damaging orchards for fear that their followers would desert them, and the Imeri that would once again make Hellas a part of Asia were wise to maintain the gardens of Amavadatos also. When times are harsh for Hellenes, and we wish to talk of times when things were better, that is when we speak of Malonika, the Hellas of its golden ages, and it is to the Amavadatids, Persians but ones that understood what it was to be a Hellene, that we credit our first golden age.
MIHRAG OF STAKHR’S REFLECTIONS (688 CE)
ON THE GARDENS OF THE HAXAMANISHIYA
The Haxamanishiya were not, it must be said, the first to maintain gardens in places otherwise a stranger to green, growing things. It is a fundamental characteristic of Asia, from ancient times to present ones, that we make the desert bloom. That said, the Haxamanishiya were the first to make gardens that were not attached to existing cities or palaces, gardens that were monuments in their own right. They positively thrived on the challenge of turning desert into lush parklands, nor did they confine themselves to Iran proper. Even in distant Yona, in those times a dark and barbarous land, was graced with magnificent gardens, growing all kinds of plants that at that time were exotic or unknown to the Yauna, as they once openly admitted in their scholarship; apples, peaches, apricots, almonds, all of these were brought into a barren country, as Yona in its wilder parts remains, and made to grow and thrive there as though it had been their native habitat, and a Yauna given command of an apple orchard by the King of Kings was a very wealthy and respected man indeed.
ANCIENT WARFARE BY C. PERICLES TANTINU (1381 CE)
THE REGIMENTS OF THE AKHAIMENIDS
We must be fully honest; in balance, we can judge neither western nor eastern Hellenic tradition to be a firm guide in this matter of the regiments of the Akhaimenids. By the time that the two schools of thought became reconciled we find that the world of the Akhaimenids was already fading into legends, and much of what was remembered of their arms and their might was now hopelessly confused with the earliest times of the Amavadatids, an understandable confusion given the stated similarities in their overall military organisation. Thus, even after the parties of western and eastern Hellenes had become reconciled, the best preserved eyewitness accounts of the Akhaimenid regiments remained those of Xenokritos, Herodotos, Kimon, Aristonikos, all of those familiar partisans of the Hellenic world’s division. Datis, whose work to reconcile the two historiographies was so thorough and far-sighted, gave up entirely on this matter, a rare admittance of defeat for the Agnimitra of scholarship.
Here we must turn outside of the old Hellenic kanon, and access those Hellenic works preserved only outside of Hellas until recently. Thukydides, son of Oloros, is famous in the kanon as a poet, indeed with a very high reputation even in the present day. Lesser known is his work on Hellenic history, which we will continue to find a useful companion to the traditional historians of west and east going forth. It would seem the work attracted little attention outside of Athenai, lacking the passionate vitriol that was in vogue at the time (being as it was a period of tumult for the Hellenes). However, some fifteen years ago two copies of it were discovered in the ancient libraries of Oruge and Apigut, though those got into the deep vaults none could say. Thukydides’ prose is dry, heavily detailed, and almost naive in its desire to encapsulate all observed detail. However, this makes it ideal for cold historical work of who, what, where, and when. One of the work’s chapters is in fact dedicated to surveying the regiments of the Akhaimenid sparda, and I take him and my own judgement to be the arbiter in the matter, hoping perhaps naively to resolve these confusions for all time.
The four most celebrated of the sparda’s regiments were the Golden Apples, Silver Apples, Golden Pomegranates, and Silver Pomegranates, their Iranian names being long since lost to time. Each of these regiments had a particular purpose; the Golden Apples were taken from those of the King’s fellow Persian aristocrats, dressed as his peers, and all ancient sources agree that their leader, called by the Hellenes the khiliarkhos, was one of the prime ministers of the Akhaimenid state; the Silver Apples were the chosen men-at-arms, deployed in combat only where the fighting was hardest and most difficult; the Golden and Silver Pomegranates were each ten thousand strong, and were the hardy, well trained soldiers expected to hold the main battle line, and it was from their ranks that new Silver Apples would be promoted. Herodotos knew the Golden and Silver Pomegranates as athanatoi, Immortals, but they were in fact known to the Persians as Companions. However, this idea of immortals made such an impression on the Hellenes that the satraps of Hellas set up their own similar regiment, the Theban Immortals. This is generally considered to be a modification of the Theban divine lokhos but there are references to both regiments across the Akhaimenid and Amavadatid periods, and whilst it would be simple to assume the two terms as synonyms that does not seem to be such a clear cut solution to the confusion. Regardless, these Theban Immortals and the tales of Herodotos then inspired the Immortal regiments of Hesperia, in particular those of the Tinians. It is tempting to dub this the most far-reaching legacy of King Xerxes’ invasion on the rest of Europa.
Here we must turn outside of the old Hellenic kanon, and access those Hellenic works preserved only outside of Hellas until recently. Thukydides, son of Oloros, is famous in the kanon as a poet, indeed with a very high reputation even in the present day. Lesser known is his work on Hellenic history, which we will continue to find a useful companion to the traditional historians of west and east going forth. It would seem the work attracted little attention outside of Athenai, lacking the passionate vitriol that was in vogue at the time (being as it was a period of tumult for the Hellenes). However, some fifteen years ago two copies of it were discovered in the ancient libraries of Oruge and Apigut, though those got into the deep vaults none could say. Thukydides’ prose is dry, heavily detailed, and almost naive in its desire to encapsulate all observed detail. However, this makes it ideal for cold historical work of who, what, where, and when. One of the work’s chapters is in fact dedicated to surveying the regiments of the Akhaimenid sparda, and I take him and my own judgement to be the arbiter in the matter, hoping perhaps naively to resolve these confusions for all time.
The four most celebrated of the sparda’s regiments were the Golden Apples, Silver Apples, Golden Pomegranates, and Silver Pomegranates, their Iranian names being long since lost to time. Each of these regiments had a particular purpose; the Golden Apples were taken from those of the King’s fellow Persian aristocrats, dressed as his peers, and all ancient sources agree that their leader, called by the Hellenes the khiliarkhos, was one of the prime ministers of the Akhaimenid state; the Silver Apples were the chosen men-at-arms, deployed in combat only where the fighting was hardest and most difficult; the Golden and Silver Pomegranates were each ten thousand strong, and were the hardy, well trained soldiers expected to hold the main battle line, and it was from their ranks that new Silver Apples would be promoted. Herodotos knew the Golden and Silver Pomegranates as athanatoi, Immortals, but they were in fact known to the Persians as Companions. However, this idea of immortals made such an impression on the Hellenes that the satraps of Hellas set up their own similar regiment, the Theban Immortals. This is generally considered to be a modification of the Theban divine lokhos but there are references to both regiments across the Akhaimenid and Amavadatid periods, and whilst it would be simple to assume the two terms as synonyms that does not seem to be such a clear cut solution to the confusion. Regardless, these Theban Immortals and the tales of Herodotos then inspired the Immortal regiments of Hesperia, in particular those of the Tinians. It is tempting to dub this the most far-reaching legacy of King Xerxes’ invasion on the rest of Europa.
THE BOOK OF DAYS
EXTRACT FROM THE LAY OF LARITH LARITHSAL
SEHTRA VELCHNAS AGAINST THE HEVETI
As the sea in a storm batters the shoreline so that even rocks may tumble into the foaming see, so was the furious onset of Sethra Velchnas sec Larcs and her apple-shielded immortals onto the first ranks of the Celtui. Her lightning spear dove down and deep in a thousand strikes, her chosen men relentlessly pushing back the Celtui as ten thousand men’s strength, not only a thousand. The rest of the battalions of the Rasna rallied, even as moments ago they had begun to give ground, and gave themselves over to Tinia. That is when the lightning struck, and the thunder of shields and unstoppable men plunged once more at the Celtui masses. The first rank broke, and Sethra Velchnas sec Larcs pushed still harder with her thousand chosen men. As fish flee from sharks and the nets of fishermen, so the Celtui now began to rout and flee from the Rasna. Thus was ended the first battle with the Heveti. To this day, Celtui will shudder at the mention of the name Sethra Vechnas sec Larcs.
THE FIRST EXORTATION OF WALAMIR TO THE SEASONES (c.350 CE)
The dating system used here remains identical to our own, for the benefit of the reader; if I'm putting dates on sources to help people keep track, there's no point making that benefit nearly impossible to use by using an alternative calendar I've never explained anywhere 
. CE and BCE are 'Common Era' 'Before Common Era' respectively in modern parlance, it's meant to be an alternative to the Christian dating system that doesn't require completely resetting the calendar. In practice you only find it commonly used in ancient history/archaeology where you're most likely to be commonly dealing with pre-Christian dates, or by those who have a serious objection to using BC and AD.
If I might ask, is it the jumping around time and place that's making it a bit confusing sometimes?
. CE and BCE are 'Common Era' 'Before Common Era' respectively in modern parlance, it's meant to be an alternative to the Christian dating system that doesn't require completely resetting the calendar. In practice you only find it commonly used in ancient history/archaeology where you're most likely to be commonly dealing with pre-Christian dates, or by those who have a serious objection to using BC and AD.If I might ask, is it the jumping around time and place that's making it a bit confusing sometimes?
Frankly, half the fun of this timeline lies in the slight mystery and constant jumping around, to say nothing of the brilliant way in which you capture all these primary sources. Don't change a thing.
Skallagrim
Banned
Fully agreed with @Practical Lobster. This whole timeline constantly exudes a captivating air of 'otherness', when it comes to the world being described. Things are sometimes very familiar (that's Herodotus!) but put in a context that changes everything. And then there's the rich description of ATL culture(s), which always leaves the reader with more questions, eager to read on. I like that a lot. The almost 'thematic' presentatation (as in the last update, which talks about apple orchards and their cultural significance in various contexts, going from Persian gardens to the Norse myth of Idunn's apples of immortality) is well done indeed.
Also, anything that somehow ends up merging Norse/Germanic mythology with Buddhist spiritual concepts is bound to be good. By all means, keep it a mystery! Keep us guessing as to how this will come about. It'll make the ultimate revelation, when we get a more clearly defined picture of this ATL's historical progression, all the more rewarding.
Also, anything that somehow ends up merging Norse/Germanic mythology with Buddhist spiritual concepts is bound to be good. By all means, keep it a mystery! Keep us guessing as to how this will come about. It'll make the ultimate revelation, when we get a more clearly defined picture of this ATL's historical progression, all the more rewarding.
Drifters
Μηδίζω! THE WORLD OF ACHAEMENID HELLAS
CHAPTER 5: SPOROS or CIHYA
IMPORTANT LIVES BY D. MAGMARIO mp SAMODA (965 CE)
Leukerix, son of Cunorix, was leader of the Arverni, reigning between 860-880 AC, and the most famous king of the Second Arverni confederacy. He is chiefly famous for leading an enormous campaign that defeated the Rasna Empire completely, leading to its collapse, and initiating the birth of Celtic involvement in the affairs of the Mediterranean. His conquest nearly beggared the Arverni, and their perceived weakness immediately lead to the Sequani-Arverni war that followed the capture of Veii in 869 AC. His legacy is properly regarded as mixed, yet nonetheless there is not a single inhabitant of Juropa that can afford to remain ignorant of his existence and his deeds. Leukerix is commonly claimed as Hellenic, a spurious claim relying on misinterpretation of various statements and the example of other, somewhat dubious, claims to Hellenic ancestry by others among the Arverni and nearby peoples.CHAPTER 5: SPOROS or CIHYA
IMPORTANT LIVES BY D. MAGMARIO mp SAMODA (965 CE)
A PRELIMINARY REPORT ON THE SENULOGIA OF MAQRI BY ANBAL HSH (1784 CE)
INTRODUCTION
INTRODUCTION
The archipelago of Maqri has often been outside the historical record, cultivating unique cultures in the meantime. Much of its early history is preserved only in very ancient stories, written by peoples from far away lands who were not particularly intimate with the area. But, by the grace of the Lord of Maqri, we have discovered many surprising things in this past season of excavation, many of which promise to significantly alter our understanding of the earliest history of the archipelago. The oldest settlements provided much evidence of prior inhabitation of Maqri, and also the relationship between these original settlers and the Maziqe of ‘Friga proper. It was, however, in the earliest complex inhabitation that we had the most surprising discoveries; in addition to the expected inscriptions of Qanani, which were numerous across all urban foundations of this period of colonisation, we also found plentifold examples of Eleniqi inscriptions, and somesuch inscriptions were bilingual. They also raise questions as to the etymology of Maqri, for the Eleniqe inscriptions refer to the colony as Makaron Nesoi, meaning The Blessed Isles, and this would by all accounts by a plausible source for the present name of the island. This was indeed the source of some consternation to some of the Maqriy who became exposed to this information, for it was their firm belief that their descent was almost exclusively from the Qanane and the later Maziqe. However, my colleague Malqar Emen made a new and thorough survey of the oral histories of the archipelago, and on the island of Tirogat’ra he found that there are in fact tales of unusual descent among the population of the island, and we discovered yet more objects with Eleniqi inscriptions belonged to families of Tirogat’ra as heirlooms or precious relics. It can be safely said that the archipelago entirely lacked in violence during this period of colonisation, as absolutely no weaponry has been discovered of any kind, nor evidence of any kind of damage to buildings resulting from human activity until the coming of the Maziqe many centuries later. Thus we found, without in any way biasing our findings with expectation, yet another evidence of successful Eleniqe and Qanane congress during this time. We also found evidence of shipbuilding on the island during the later stages of this period, mostly evidenced on ceramics and votive images, and we took advantage of the presence of Ben Tamaya in our party to consult his people’s expertise on the matter of great ships constructed with simple techniques. It was his firm opinion that the ships so depicted were ocean-capable vessels, comparable to the old waka of his ancestors, and he wondered at where the ancient Maqriy might have travelled to. A fair question indeed, and one that we could not satisfactorily answer.
LANDS OF THE HELLENES BY MOIRICHOS OF KORKYRA (577 CE)
SKYTHIA
For some time tales had been coming to the Hellenes of strange barbarians in the north who spoke like Hellenes, and spoke of Hellas, but who fought on horseback and lived on the open steppe. No Hellene who ventured into Sarmatia ever encountered such a thing, though many a brave adventurer went north to find the legendary Lost Hellenes, and not all of them came back. But one day, long after this had been judged to be the work of tall tales and wicked storytellers, in the reign of Panhellen Perseus II Nikator, there came a strange visitor to the court. He was dressed in the manner of the Sarmatians at first glance, but some of his garb seemed to have a more civilized style to it. This was written off as high quality Asian work that had made its way somewhere into Sarmatia. The visitor spoke in the language of the Sarmatians, and claimed to be an ambassador from a king among the Sarmatians. He brought a brace of wonderful horses as a gift for the Panhellen, and he was granted entrance to the presence of the Panhellen. When he was brought before Panhellen Perseus, however, the stranger produced another gift; bolts of fine silk with the finest quality dyes. And that was not all. When inspected, it was found that the silk had Hellenic characters upon it. Then the stranger began to speak another language, which was immediately recognised by men from Euvoia as a kind of Ionian Hellenic, strange to many but once a common tongue in the lands of Hellas.
This was marvelled at by the assembled men of court, and Panhellen Perseus asked the man his name and his heritage with great curiosity and interest. He named himself as Samagoras, son of Samagoras, and servant of Basileus Sanagos of West Khorasmia. He gave the story of West Khorasmia in full. When the Persians had given the lands of Kimmeria over to the Sindes, a part of the citizens of the poleis of the region had quit their cities to avoid the rule of the king of Persia, and were unable to make their way back to Hellas since all of that was also under the rule of Persia. So, with heavy hearts, they founded their own city of Neapolis, further north, and there entered into congress with the Sarmatians and the Honno. There they made precious objects for the nomad kings, and hired themselves out as skilled warriors, but this eventually led to disaster for Neapolis as they were targeted by some of the peoples they defeated, it being understood that they were limited in terms of the territory that they controlled. This led to a further migration south-eastwards, towards the border of Khorasmia. The King of Khorasmia conducted an alliance with the Kimmerians, and allowed them to found a new city, named Khora. This the Kimmerians fortified immensely, and had never fallen to an enemy. By this time they had begun to learn how to fight in a similar style to the other nomads of the region, whilst combining that with the traditional Hellenic style. However, despite all the time that had passed, and despite being cut off from Hellas completely, they had not forgotten a single part of their history nor their Hellenic identity. Now King Sanagos of West Khorasmia and his ally King Thraitonos of Khorasmia were under threat from the depredations of the Sarmatians, and had heard that the Hellenes were no longer under the rule of the Persians, and so now Sanagos asked his brother Hellenes for help in the fight. To this, Panhellen Perseus acquiesced immediately, and so began his first campaign into Skythia.
This was marvelled at by the assembled men of court, and Panhellen Perseus asked the man his name and his heritage with great curiosity and interest. He named himself as Samagoras, son of Samagoras, and servant of Basileus Sanagos of West Khorasmia. He gave the story of West Khorasmia in full. When the Persians had given the lands of Kimmeria over to the Sindes, a part of the citizens of the poleis of the region had quit their cities to avoid the rule of the king of Persia, and were unable to make their way back to Hellas since all of that was also under the rule of Persia. So, with heavy hearts, they founded their own city of Neapolis, further north, and there entered into congress with the Sarmatians and the Honno. There they made precious objects for the nomad kings, and hired themselves out as skilled warriors, but this eventually led to disaster for Neapolis as they were targeted by some of the peoples they defeated, it being understood that they were limited in terms of the territory that they controlled. This led to a further migration south-eastwards, towards the border of Khorasmia. The King of Khorasmia conducted an alliance with the Kimmerians, and allowed them to found a new city, named Khora. This the Kimmerians fortified immensely, and had never fallen to an enemy. By this time they had begun to learn how to fight in a similar style to the other nomads of the region, whilst combining that with the traditional Hellenic style. However, despite all the time that had passed, and despite being cut off from Hellas completely, they had not forgotten a single part of their history nor their Hellenic identity. Now King Sanagos of West Khorasmia and his ally King Thraitonos of Khorasmia were under threat from the depredations of the Sarmatians, and had heard that the Hellenes were no longer under the rule of the Persians, and so now Sanagos asked his brother Hellenes for help in the fight. To this, Panhellen Perseus acquiesced immediately, and so began his first campaign into Skythia.
RECORDS OF THE NORTHERN REGIONS BY KUANG FANG (443 CE)
THE DOUYI
Their ruler is called the Anaku, and he may only be selected from a very small number of familial lines, lines claimed to be kept pure since they were cast out of La. The other barbarians tell stories that, once upon a time, the Douyi were known as ‘the nude ones’ for their women would openly train their bodies in the nude. The Northern Xiongnu once attempted to take advantage of this to try to carry off the women of the Douyi, but their women were trained as warriors and fought off their attackers with great ferocity. The barbarians tell this tale to mock the Xiongnu and Douyi both. If this was ever a practice that the Douyi maintained, it is not one that they practice any longer. The Douyi are made of the Four Nations, the Yaku, the Koru, the Lani and the Betu. The Yaku once dominated the others, in the days of Emperor Wu it was understood that the Yaku were the royal clan, but things are since different. The current ruler among the Douyi is Dou Yong, who is of the Koru. They practice the ways of the Buddha, and prefer to speak the tongue of the Sak, though they also have another language that only their priests and monks can speak, a secret language they will not share with outsiders. They are impetuous and fearless, except in the matter of spirituality, where they are renowned as among the most pious among all barbarians. Some among them say that they were cast out of La for violating a sacred oath, and that ever since they have never broken a godly oath they have sworn, either individually or as a nation. They are part of the Western Yan, having been given the city of Ye to rule over and its surrounding region. They may speak like the Sak and fight like the barbarians but they have become amenable to Chinese dress and behaviour, and are counted as one of the more civilized among those who rule over the North. They are counted among those of the Nine Barbarians with whom the Emperor can maintain diplomatic relations.
Yasss Central Asia!
Maqri is.... the Canaries?
I'm impressed that the Arverni are projecting power as far south as Veii. That speaks to some pretty impressive changes in their confederation I think.
Maqri is.... the Canaries?
I'm impressed that the Arverni are projecting power as far south as Veii. That speaks to some pretty impressive changes in their confederation I think.
Maqri is indeed the Canaries! They rarely get any love in pre-medieval timelines so I thought they were about due.
As for the Arverni, absolutely- the Second Arverni confederacy is as different from the first as the Goths and Franks are from the earliest German speakers that encountered the Romans,
As for the Arverni, absolutely- the Second Arverni confederacy is as different from the first as the Goths and Franks are from the earliest German speakers that encountered the Romans,
Even calling the 'Douyi' Greeks at this stage might be going a bit far- Greek speaking only remains in tiny communities among the Douyi at the time the author is writing, and they are more part of Central Asia now than anything Hellenic, wearing Chinese dress and speaking Saka languages. Within another century or so they'll be practically indistinguishable from other Northern Chinese residents.
But yep, Buddhist exile Greeks invading China (as a small part of a much larger confederacy).
But yep, Buddhist exile Greeks invading China (as a small part of a much larger confederacy).
Well, steppe ethnogensis being what it is, that's not really surprising. Still...
What's the relative timeframe of the campaigns by Perseus and the invasion of China? Am I right in suspecting that the "Douyi" are related to the "West Khorasmians"?
'Ben' here is the author translating Tamaya's title for the benefit of his Berber-speaking audience, and Tamaya isn't exactly a Maori but you're in the right language group and ocean.
There isn't a relationship between the Douyi and the West Khorasmians beyond Hellenic descent, but the Douyi were aware of the 'Kimmerians' once they began heading East, as they had a relationship with the Xiongnu of the time. Perseus' invasion is taking place in the late 1st century CE, the invasion of China by the Nine Barbarians during the 3rd century CE.
There isn't a relationship between the Douyi and the West Khorasmians beyond Hellenic descent, but the Douyi were aware of the 'Kimmerians' once they began heading East, as they had a relationship with the Xiongnu of the time. Perseus' invasion is taking place in the late 1st century CE, the invasion of China by the Nine Barbarians during the 3rd century CE.
I am fairly certain the Douyi are Spartans. The naked warrior training of their women and their extreme piety strongly suggest it. Still, most interesting. I wonder how much contact the *Chinese court has with the Persian world? Are the butterflies from the fall of Greece extending out that far yet, or was there simply not enough contact across the steppe?