ΗΑΒΕΜΘΣ ΠΑΠΑΜ - effects of a continued Byzantine Papacy

[SvoHljott]

toed, not towed.

Excellent questions.

Sorry to bump this thread (I don't know at what point it goes from bumping to necroing, but it's less than 6 months since a post was last made so let's hope this isn't)

Mrmandias, I'm pretty sure the word is 'towed' not 'toed', but I may be wrong I suppose.

According to google:

tow1
təʊ
verb
past tense: towed; past participle: towed
(of a motor vehicle or boat) pull (another vehicle or boat) along with a rope, chain, or tow bar.
"a pickup van towing a trailer"
synonyms: pull, draw, drag, haul, tug, trail, lug, heave, trawl, hoist, transport; informalyank
"a garage man called to tow the car away"
(of a person) pull along behind one.
"she saw Florian towing Nicky along by the hand"

Toed:
toe
təʊ
verb
past tense: toed; past participle: toed
1.
push, touch, or kick with one's toe.
"he toed off his shoes and flexed his feet"
2.
walk with the toes pointed in (or out).
"he toes out when he walks"


Anyway, OT: I thought it made more sense to bump the most recent thread on this topic rather than start a new one, but an additional question: What is the latest POD that could see the Byzantines keep the Exarchate of Ravenna and thus keep the Byzantine Papacy alive?

 

[Ricard (i.e. Rdffigueira)]

Anyway, OT: I thought it made more sense to bump the most recent thread on this topic rather than start a new one, but an additional question: What is the latest POD that could see the Byzantines keep the Exarchate of Ravenna and thus keep the Byzantine Papacy alive?

I guess necroing goes over a year or so since there are no more posts in the thread. Anyways, I swear I've never understood why necroing is so repulsive in debate forums

I suppose that beating the Lombards out of Italy after the Gothic War is the PoD you need. Even if you consider that Byzantium retained some parts of Italy under the collective appelation of "Exarchate of Ravenna", the Lombards overrun most of the peninsula, and the Byzantines only held genuine control over Ravenna itself (north of Latium).

If the Byzantines retain a solid hold over the peninsula, then they surely will be keen to maintain the Pope on a short leash. But then again we return to the problem that someone said earlier: a pre-Muslim conquest PoD means the Emperors will try to find settlement with the churches of Syria and Egypt, which only distanced itself even more to the West.

 

[mrmandias]

"Toe the line" is an idiomatic expression meaning either to conform to a rule or standard, or to stand poised at the starting line in a footrace. Other phrases which were once used in the early 1800s and have the same meaning were toe the mark and toe the plank.
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-La Wik

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The phrase "toe the line" is equivalent to "toe the mark," both of which mean to conform to a rule or a standard. [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The Oxford Dictionary of Word Histories [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif](Oxford: Oxford Univ. Press, 2002; ed. by Glynnis Chantrell) says, "The idiom [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]toe the line[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] from an athletics analogy originated in the early 19th century" (514). [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
-from here
[/FONT]

 

[Magnum]

it's funny how discussions regarding inconsequential side-aspects of the OP are often way more intense and heated than the actual content...

 

[mrmandias]

IT'S NOT FUNNY.

 

[Magnum]

Anyway, OT: I thought it made more sense to bump the most recent thread on this topic rather than start a new one, but an additional question: What is the latest POD that could see the Byzantines keep the Exarchate of Ravenna and thus keep the Byzantine Papacy alive?

Ravenna was finally lost in 751, so that would probably be the latest theoretical POD available.

The last practical one however might probably be butterflying away the whole iconoclast controversy in 727.

The last chance for the Romans to retake all of Italy was probably during the disastrous reign of Constans II - Egypt lost to the Caliphate for good; most of the fleet sunk; cities along the Aegean and in Anatolia wrecked by Arab raids; Slavs taking over most of the Balkan interior; Religious controversy tearing the empire apart; and the last major attempt to defeat the Lombards (headed by the emperor himself), which, you guessed it, ended up in defeat. Had someone actually competent been at the helm, things might have turned out differently.