Α Byzantine Crusade in 1187? Possible?

[Don_Giorgio]

In 1187 Saladin captured Jerusalem and reduced the Crusader State into a small strip of land near Acre...
Eastern Roman Emperor Isaakios II sent an Embassy to Saladin asking him to return the Holy Land Churches to the Orthodoxs and Saladin accepted thus uphelding the Edict of Caliph Umar.

WI Saladin had refused? Would his refusal have provoked Isaakios to take military action against Saladin? Or he would helped Friederic II to fight Saladin in exchange with the administration of Holy Lands churches (and perhaps a few territorial gains)?.

 

[Basileus Giorgios]

I don't think there's a great deal Isaac can do, given that all hell is breaking loose in the Balkans. The most he can do is propose an alliance with Frederick Barbarossa and friends, and hope for the best.

 

[el t]

Byzantine Crusade

I don't think there's a great deal Isaac can do, given that all hell is breaking loose in the Balkans. The most he can do is propose an alliance with Frederick Barbarossa and friends, and hope for the best.

I agree. And things were'nt going that well for the Byzantines in Asia Minor at that time either. I can't see Isaac going to Syria.

 

[Don_Giorgio]

I agree. And things were'nt going that well for the Byzantines in Asia Minor at that time either. I can't see Isaac going to Syria.

So propably Isaac I strikes a deal with Barbarossa and waits for the outcome?

 

[ByzantineCaesar]

1187 Byzantium does not have enough power to strike at the Holy Land. Maybe Isaac would send some supplies to the Crusader States in Acre via Cyprus. He could even raid the Ayyubid coastline, but a full campaign is impossible. As BG said, the Balkans are terrible and if Isaac takes more troops away from Anatolia the Turks would launch an invasion.

 

[Don_Giorgio]

1187 Byzantium does not have enough power to strike at the Holy Land. Maybe Isaac would send some supplies to the Crusader States in Acre via Cyprus. He could even raid the Ayyubid coastline, but a full campaign is impossible. As BG said, the Balkans are terrible and if Isaac takes more troops away from Anatolia the Turks would launch an invasion.

Then as i said above Isaac forms an alliance with Barbarossa and supplies him throughout his campaign hoping for some territorial gains and the administration of churches in the Holy Lands?

 

[Elfwine]

Then as i said above Isaac forms an alliance with Barbarossa and supplies him throughout his campaign hoping for some territorial gains and the administration of churches in the Holy Lands?

Possible, just, but unless Isaac is in a better position at home (for purposes of this, Bulgaria and Serbia don't count), he probably won't.

Its not as if the Byzantines can't try to send something - see my timeline (with an earlier POD, but its close enough), but they'd need a really significant contribution to be taken seriously unless the emperor can use it for all its worth, and Isaac isn't up to that.

Assuming things go well, which is not a given. Richard does not seem like the sort of guy to work happily with "Greeks".

 

[el t]

Byzantine Crusade

I don't think that the mood in the Byzantine empire was particularly pro-Latin at this period. Remember the Latin massacre at Constantinople..

 

[CandyDragon]

The Empire was never really pro-Crusader, at least in the way the West felt the Crusades should pan out. They always wished they had a little more control over them (For good reason)

 

[Pachac]

WI Saladin had refused? Would his refusal have provoked Isaakios to take military action against Saladin? Or he would helped Friederic II to fight Saladin in exchange with the administration of Holy Lands churches (and perhaps a few territorial gains)?.

Saladin was an extremely pious man, but he was also an honorable one, to the point where he would allow the Crusaders to escape battles and the like with the cost of his own victory. I doubt he would have ever broken the Edict of Umar.

 

[Don_Giorgio]

Saladin was an extremely pious man, but he was also an honorable one, to the point where he would allow the Crusaders to escape battles and the like with the cost of his own victory. I doubt he would have ever broken the Edict of Umar.

Couldnt Saladin be forced to refuse Isaac's proposal by hardliners Imams or Generals? After all he conquered the third holiest city in Islam...

 

[Pachac]

Couldnt Saladin be forced to refuse Isaac's proposal by hardliners Imams or Generals? After all he conquered the third holiest city in Islam...

What hardliner Imams and Generals? He annihilated all his opposition within Egypt after Shirkuh passed on ruler-ship to him. He had a very decentralized structure, yes, but he was not going to be pushed around by nonexistent Imams and his generals were fairly complacent due to his victories- and the precedent that killing the Shi'i nobles of Egypt set.