Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Any possibility of Mexico snagging a slice of the Oregon Country? 
Oh yeah Mexican Superpower!
Oh yeah Mexican Superpower!
¡Por la Patria, Viva México Fuerte! A Mexican TL
- Thread starter Arkhangelsk
- Start date
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- strong mexico
Any possibility of Mexico snagging a slice of the Oregon Country?
Oh yeah Mexican Superpower!
Oh you tempt me so much you! Mexiwank is best wank.
That said México will be spending more of it's time making sure to keep the territory it has as opposed to taking land already in the American's spere of influence...that's not to say though that ATL's México has no future prospects at taking more land. It'll be a while but you'll see what I have in store.
Awesome Méxican Navy is awesome!
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
The Pacific shall become a Mexican Lake, no!
How funny it would be if Mexico took the Philipines?
How funny it would be if Mexico took the Philipines?
The Pacific shall become a Mexican Lake, no!
How funny it would be if Mexico took the Philipines?
Méxican Lake it shall be my friend, it'll be the first step towards retaking the Philippines and reestablishing the boundaries of the old Viceroyalty!
I actually do have plans regarding México in the Philippines, though this is late 19th century we're talking about...so we'll see.
Bumping just in case anyone missed the previous update, it's at the end of the previous page if you missed it.
Working on the next update, the end of Allende's term, followed by an update on post-Bolivarian South America.
Working on the next update, the end of Allende's term, followed by an update on post-Bolivarian South America.
Can't wait!
Thanks Russian sailor! Almost done with an update so hopefully you won't have to wait too long.
Look forward to the next update!
With luck, Allende's Mexico can put itself on a stable footing and get itself a nice little navy to go with its army.
Hehe yup, it will take some wrangling and some luck but when war does come knocking on México's door the opposing country will be in for a fight.
Excellent.
What happened to the Federalists? I think they would still be around, probably damaged after opposing the Cuban War.
I haven't completely hashed it out 100% but you're right, with no Hartford Convention the Federalists are still experiencing a decline, albeit a slow gradual one, as opposed to the shock of a demise they received OTL. So far my intentions is to have the rump Federalists coalesce with one of the halves resulting from TTL's Dem-Rep split. President Clay's time in office should be fun.
I have some fun ideas for Hawaii, but a stronger México will be able to have stronger economic interests represented on the islands. As we get to the end of the century and México's role in the Pacific grows Hawaii will no doubt be an important player.
Thank you for the posts guys, I hope to finish up this little update I have in the works very soon.
México's First Transfer of Power: 1821-1828
Update time! Figures I decided to hash out an update during midterms, but eh, I'd much rather type out my timeline as opposed to a paper. Also apologies for the update being a bit short and/or lacking, like my update on Madison this one has been sitting around collecting dust, so I got fed up and wrapped it up one way or another.
One of the central issues that would define the latter half of the Allende Administration would be the issue of the feudal Hacienda System, a relic institution dating back to the 16th century. The system found a fierce critic with José María Morelos, the new republic’s Secretary of War. He noted right away that México’s progression would be hindered by the inequality imbedded into the current state of society. Naturally Morelos sought to right this “most heinous of wrongs,” but to his dismay and aggrievement many in congress did not see eye to eye with him. Iturbide and his posse of centralistas, who represented the interests the hacendados (and in most cases they themselves being the patróns of their own haciendas) sought to block any attempts by Morelos to introduce any legislation that would possibly do away with the haciendas. Indeed the idea of scrapping the hacienda system was revolutionary all its own. Many of his fellow Insurgents, while sympathetic with his ideas, were more grounded with the belief that altering the social fabric soon after México had finally found some piece would be disastrous. President Allende was of this opinion, but he nonetheless spoke regularly with Morelos over the institution’s eventual dismantling. One idea that gained traction would be of granting hacienda owners incentives, in the form of monetary compensation. Allende knew, however, that it would be an idea that would take years to actually implement nationwide.
Another issue that came to a head at this time was the status of México’s remaining peninsular population. Despite the call by many Méxicans to expel the remaining Spaniards, Allende dissuaded against such a move. Whether it was the fact that he understood the human capital they held and how México could benefit from them, or simply the fact that Allende’s own father was a peninsular, Allende made sure to resist any attempts to expel them. In fact, despite the trickle of peninsulares leaving México on their own accord, several thousand Spaniards would arrive in Veracruz between 1824 and 1827, mostly refugees from American Cuba. On the continued advice from General Aldama and Secretary Gutierrez de Lara, Allende would encourage new migrants to México to settle in the north, with a sizable portion of Cuban peninsulares eventually settling in San Antonio de Béxar and various other locations in Tejas and Coahuila. This policy would continue after Morelos succeeds Allende in 1825 as Spaniards, mostly Spanish liberals, would make the trek from Spain itself as it continued to be rocked by instability. Despite Morelos’s dislike of gachupines[1], Allende would continually pressure Morelos to stop short of expulsion.
On the international stage México would finally receive formal recognition from several European states, beginning with Great Britain in 1825 (just as Allende would end his term as president) followed by France in 1828 and The Netherlands in 1830. Back in its own hemisphere México would see the return of its legion from South America, with the Wars of Independence there finally petering out by 1825. Some Méxicans would stay in Colombia for varying reasons, but most would leave the country now headed by Francisco de Paula Santander as repeated liberation attempts into Perú produced abysmal results.[2] To México’s north several American citizens would begin talks with the Méxican government over the possible migration of several hundred Americans into Tejas. As legalities were settled the first anglosajones would make their way into Tejas in 1828.
James Heweston, Irish-born American who would settle one of the first American colonies in Tejas southeast of San Antonio de Béxar.
***
[1] Just in case for those who may not know, gachupines was term used to describe Spaniards, and it was usually used in a derogatory manner. Also, peninsular is a more formal term for gachupines, namely those Spaniards born in the Iberian Peninsula...again just in case some of you did not know.
[2] Spoilers.
I won't promise an update any time in the next few days or weeks, but if I do manage to pull something out of my ass soon it will be concerning South America...and expanding on that spoiler above in much more detail.
Also apologies for the update being a bit short and/or lacking, like my update on Madison this one has been sitting around collecting dust, so I got fed up and wrapped it up one way or another. México's first transfer of power: 1821-1828
Ignacio Allende and José María Morelos: the two men who would shape México during it's first quarter century of existence.
Ignacio Allende and José María Morelos: the two men who would shape México during it's first quarter century of existence.
One of the central issues that would define the latter half of the Allende Administration would be the issue of the feudal Hacienda System, a relic institution dating back to the 16th century. The system found a fierce critic with José María Morelos, the new republic’s Secretary of War. He noted right away that México’s progression would be hindered by the inequality imbedded into the current state of society. Naturally Morelos sought to right this “most heinous of wrongs,” but to his dismay and aggrievement many in congress did not see eye to eye with him. Iturbide and his posse of centralistas, who represented the interests the hacendados (and in most cases they themselves being the patróns of their own haciendas) sought to block any attempts by Morelos to introduce any legislation that would possibly do away with the haciendas. Indeed the idea of scrapping the hacienda system was revolutionary all its own. Many of his fellow Insurgents, while sympathetic with his ideas, were more grounded with the belief that altering the social fabric soon after México had finally found some piece would be disastrous. President Allende was of this opinion, but he nonetheless spoke regularly with Morelos over the institution’s eventual dismantling. One idea that gained traction would be of granting hacienda owners incentives, in the form of monetary compensation. Allende knew, however, that it would be an idea that would take years to actually implement nationwide.
Another issue that came to a head at this time was the status of México’s remaining peninsular population. Despite the call by many Méxicans to expel the remaining Spaniards, Allende dissuaded against such a move. Whether it was the fact that he understood the human capital they held and how México could benefit from them, or simply the fact that Allende’s own father was a peninsular, Allende made sure to resist any attempts to expel them. In fact, despite the trickle of peninsulares leaving México on their own accord, several thousand Spaniards would arrive in Veracruz between 1824 and 1827, mostly refugees from American Cuba. On the continued advice from General Aldama and Secretary Gutierrez de Lara, Allende would encourage new migrants to México to settle in the north, with a sizable portion of Cuban peninsulares eventually settling in San Antonio de Béxar and various other locations in Tejas and Coahuila. This policy would continue after Morelos succeeds Allende in 1825 as Spaniards, mostly Spanish liberals, would make the trek from Spain itself as it continued to be rocked by instability. Despite Morelos’s dislike of gachupines[1], Allende would continually pressure Morelos to stop short of expulsion.
On the international stage México would finally receive formal recognition from several European states, beginning with Great Britain in 1825 (just as Allende would end his term as president) followed by France in 1828 and The Netherlands in 1830. Back in its own hemisphere México would see the return of its legion from South America, with the Wars of Independence there finally petering out by 1825. Some Méxicans would stay in Colombia for varying reasons, but most would leave the country now headed by Francisco de Paula Santander as repeated liberation attempts into Perú produced abysmal results.[2] To México’s north several American citizens would begin talks with the Méxican government over the possible migration of several hundred Americans into Tejas. As legalities were settled the first anglosajones would make their way into Tejas in 1828.
James Heweston, Irish-born American who would settle one of the first American colonies in Tejas southeast of San Antonio de Béxar.
***
[1] Just in case for those who may not know, gachupines was term used to describe Spaniards, and it was usually used in a derogatory manner. Also, peninsular is a more formal term for gachupines, namely those Spaniards born in the Iberian Peninsula...again just in case some of you did not know.
[2] Spoilers.
I won't promise an update any time in the next few days or weeks, but if I do manage to pull something out of my ass soon it will be concerning South America...and expanding on that spoiler above in much more detail.
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Arkhangelsk
Good to see more and the map helps remind people what's been happening.
Sounds from the comment about liberal failures in Peru that the Spanish manage to hold on there, at least for the moment. That could have some interesting impacts.
Also the key factor is possibly that a good precedent has been set for a peaceful transfer of power, even with the new President being someone disliked by many of the establishment.
Best of luck with the studies.
Steve
Good to see more and the map helps remind people what's been happening.
Sounds from the comment about liberal failures in Peru that the Spanish manage to hold on there, at least for the moment. That could have some interesting impacts.
Also the key factor is possibly that a good precedent has been set for a peaceful transfer of power, even with the new President being someone disliked by many of the establishment.
Best of luck with the studies.
Steve
I hope to touch on Perú really soon, because in TTL it may come to represent an alternate path for one of the countries of Latin America, which I find interesting and I hope my readership does too.
Yes, despite pretty much being from the same party, 1824 (the year of the election) signifies the first "democratic" transfer of power between two individuals in México. It also helps that these figures are extremely popular which helps damper the hopes of anyone possibly inciting a rebellion.
Thanks Steve, I'll try my best with school, and I hope to have the next update up ASAP.
Man, I just love this timeline. You do such an amazing job.
Thanks so much dude, that means a lot!
I think you handled Monroe's term very well. Although I am unclear as to how the American's hold on in Cuba with two rebellion's going on at the same time. I could imagine the same objections to annexation of mexico as made in 1848 would pertain to Cuba in 1819 (they very well might have been). How is this concern satisfied?
So in the election of 1824 the parties are Republicans and Democrats? No Whigs? I ask this because the mental connection one is supposed to make with the term Whig is one of benevolent government, while the idea of Democracy was rather "unnerving" to the elites of the day. Remember the intent of the constitution was in some ways to place a check on the "Demos", the people, so as to keep them out of mischief.
How exactly did the Federalists fade away? No Hartford as you indicate might suggest they are relevant for at least one more election (1820?), I am curious as to how you have them implode in this TL (and I certainly think they do), their demise is important just as the adaption, by Clay, of many of their central tenants is? The demise of the Federalists leads in some ways to the evolution of Whigs where you would find many old Federalists (JQA as an example), and many of their old ideas, hence Jackson at times calling them "Federalists".
Also leads me to another question is Clay the Clay of our TL or is he somehow different? In his later days, Clay was much more isolationist (he opposed OTL's Mexican war, IIRC), and much more concerned with domestic policy although at this stage in his career he is far more hawkish (although with no "political" Jackson, he does not have to counter Jackson's hawkish attitude) and is personally obessed with defeating Jackson. I think it would be interesting to observe the evolution of Clay without Jackson as a counterweight and may or may not breed a significantly different character then OTL's.
Edit: I agree with Steve on Canada, I sincerely doubt absolute assimilation, although the Ontario Peninsula may be a candidate for rebellion and eventual statehood beyond that I think is ASB, the evolution of Canadian identity is worth observing in this TL
Just some food for thought. As always keep up the good work.
So in the election of 1824 the parties are Republicans and Democrats? No Whigs? I ask this because the mental connection one is supposed to make with the term Whig is one of benevolent government, while the idea of Democracy was rather "unnerving" to the elites of the day. Remember the intent of the constitution was in some ways to place a check on the "Demos", the people, so as to keep them out of mischief.
How exactly did the Federalists fade away? No Hartford as you indicate might suggest they are relevant for at least one more election (1820?), I am curious as to how you have them implode in this TL (and I certainly think they do), their demise is important just as the adaption, by Clay, of many of their central tenants is? The demise of the Federalists leads in some ways to the evolution of Whigs where you would find many old Federalists (JQA as an example), and many of their old ideas, hence Jackson at times calling them "Federalists".
Also leads me to another question is Clay the Clay of our TL or is he somehow different? In his later days, Clay was much more isolationist (he opposed OTL's Mexican war, IIRC), and much more concerned with domestic policy although at this stage in his career he is far more hawkish (although with no "political" Jackson, he does not have to counter Jackson's hawkish attitude) and is personally obessed with defeating Jackson. I think it would be interesting to observe the evolution of Clay without Jackson as a counterweight and may or may not breed a significantly different character then OTL's.
Edit: I agree with Steve on Canada, I sincerely doubt absolute assimilation, although the Ontario Peninsula may be a candidate for rebellion and eventual statehood beyond that I think is ASB, the evolution of Canadian identity is worth observing in this TL
Just some food for thought. As always keep up the good work.
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First off apologies for the belated response, I've been really busy these last few days.
Thank you for the bit on Monroe, and to answer your concern regarding Cuba, I fear I left this out of the previous update but the simultaneous rebellions did more to harm each other than throw the Americans out. The Spanish Cubans may have had a shot to win, though it was more of them fighting the US Army and a slave revolt all at once. Of course, I don't intend on Cuba to remain American forever, expect an independent Cuba later on in the century.
I'll admit as much as I know of United States history, especially of the early republic, I am rather lacking in that department. As far as I knew of OTL's 1824 election the candidates were all Dem-Reps, and it was after the election that you have the gradual splintering of the party and the formation of the Whigs and the Democrats. My intentions regarding the Federalists was not so much fading away, but for them to merge with elements of the Dem-Reps post-1824 into an alt-Whig Party. Of course I seem to have failed to properly show that in the update. Assuming the Federalists do field someone in 1820 (or even 1824?) who do you think could run? I think I'll be going back and fixing up that update to take into account all this.
As for Clay, he's more or less OTL's man, perhaps less isolationist with the Spanish-American independence wars going so well*, though as I formulate future updates I'd love more feedback regarding Clay and the US in general over the next few years. Recently I've actually been thinking of retconning the bit regarding Clay's victory in 1824, if nothing else for having him be president until 1832. Is it possible for Clay to win reelection in 1828?
Regarding the Ontario peninsula and the question of the US annexing it, it's still up in the air...though I feel like I'm leaning toward its eventual seizure. The name of this hypothetical state is still a mystery though. Also I've been toying around with the idea of the Maritimes and the rest of Canada going seperate ways and having New Brunswick, PEI and Nova Scotia forming their own union. Thoughts?
*All went well for the liberators minus Peru, which the next update will cover.
Thanks for that big post GSM, it's truly very helpful!
(Also it's great to see you on again, I know you're pretty busy these days. Take care!)
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VIVA MEXICO!
Now that midterms are through (and before I get too embroiled with my term paper) I'll work on the South American update. I'm not sure if I'll I can have it done by the second week of November, but I'll try my best. Take care guys!