Search results

If a decision is made mot to go for the Caucasus Blau I and II can still happen but their purpose is now very different. To destroy significant Red Army forces and make some operationally useful territorial gains while avoiding the risks of going after the Caucasus Stalingrad or, alternatively...

They could. And very likely it would have worked out much like Kursk.

Then explain why Army Group South was forced to retreat only after 4th Kharkov. We are talking here about the outcome of the summer 1943 campaign the outcome of which forced the Wehrmact to abandon the line of the River Don and retreat all the way to the River Dnieper. The defence of the Dnieper...

There are a number of very strong publications on Kursk which I have already mentioned, Robert M Citno's series is worth a look gor overall context. On the Souther sector however I would recommend Nipe, Zamulin, Scrank and Lawrence (if your bookshelves and bank balance can stand it the full 1600...

Following the victory at 2nd Kharkov Hitler/Halder decide to cancel Operation Blau (no advance into the Caucasus or to Stalingrad even though that means no oil from the Caucasus. The Wehrmacht could still undertake local offensives such as the Blau I/Blau II plans but will otherwise husband...

The Germans could no longer do that though. Arguably the Germans already tried that and failed with Operation Blau in 1942 and failed. Some look upon Citadel as being much moor of a line straightening operation to remove the salient left after the winter campaign and not in fact an attempt at...

I agree with you.Some do narrow it down to the 4 - 17 July time frame/ Many books on Kursk do take that approach concentrating solely on the German offensive operations. It can and has been narrowed down to just Operation Citadel's Southern sector, Perhaps referring to the Battle of Kursk as the...

Note I will be getting a copy of Christopher A Lawrence's book on Kursk (the big 1600 page version) for my birthday on Saturday after which I will be able to offer some comment on this source and his views on Prokhorovka. The next Kursk titlr I am likely to obtain will be Zamulin's The Battle of...

I would suggest to you that it was the outcome of the summer 1943 fighting on the Army Group South sector. If we define thee Battle of Kursk as the action between 4 July and 17 July this in itself was only the Soviet defensive phase and was not the decisive battle though the repulse of Operation...

Wiking You remain reliant on posting Wikipedia links to support your arguments. Wikipedia is, at best, an introductory source and not always reliable. You would be better off going to the actual text books ef Glantz, Zanulin, Nipe, Schrank, Lawrence, Newtton. It would be safe to assume that...

Yes, on an operational level the Red Army achieved the objective of exhausting II SS Panzer Corps and gaining time. Nipe in particular details the strategic reserves available Renewing the drive on Kursk with those strategic reserves on the right flank/rear of the attack would have been...

Mote a;so that Rotmistrov might be the original source of the Soviet era myth. He was culpable as commander of 5th GTA for what happened to his command evenm though Commissar Khruschev bullied huim into a premature counter offensive. His position and likely his life depended on being able to...

My point is that a lot of people and sources still rely on pre 1990 material. I am not saying Wheatley is guilty of this but some commentators on this thread might possibly still be using that source material though I would hope not. Casting my critical History graduate eye over Wheatley's...

Wiking While the Soviets had not destroyed AGS by the end of Augyst 1943 the Army Group was threadbare due to the very high losses incurred through all the fighting of July and August. It was incapable of holding the line between the Donets and the Dnieper River/ Manstein new tat and Hitler was...

Admiral Fischer Kursk as a whole had already failed with the failure of Model's part of the operation. Yes some success had been achieved by Manstein but he had gone as far as he could . The weather was bad (frequent heavy thunder storms turning the ground to mush) and powerful Soviet...

Read some of the more recent research on Kursk eg Nipe, Shrank. The Soviets were not down to their last reserves/ The Germans were. By 13 July the Soviets had reserves in place to hit the right flank and rear of the II SS Panzer Corps. That you see is the danger of relying on Wikipedia instead...

The point I made though was that a really decisive French victory in Belgium has the best chance of knocking Britain, a major amd key player out of the war if the effect of that French victory is to bring about the fall pf Lord Liverpool's Conservative Government and the replacement of that...

Soviet tank crews in July 1943 were often still inexperienced and poorly trained. The T-34/76 lacked radios except in command tanks making sophisticated tactics such as those employed by the Panzer divisions all but impossible. The counter attack at Prokhorovka was hastily implemented and poorly...

The only way Napoleon could have survived as Emperor would have been a decisive victory in Belgium and a collapse of the 7th Coalition. Politically Lord Liverpool's government would need to collapse to be replaced by the Whigs who favoured peace with France. British withdrawal from the war would...

Yes 5GTA was smashed. However we also know from Nipe and others that II SS Panzer Corps were temporarily too exhausted emotionally and physically to continue without a rest. In the meantime the Soviets, as we find in Schrank's history, had moved the strategic reserves up. It might be argued that...