WI - The British army re-armed rationally

sharlin

Banned
Colonel’s Fuller and Collins stood on the podium waiting for the hubbub of conversation to die down before Fuller stepped forwards and cleared his throat, instantly there was silence and all eyes turned to him.

“Thank you gentlemen, now we’ve been working together for the past two years in training in the field and in our headquarters and it is my pleasure to tell you that as of…now” the Colonel said as the clock in the theatre chimed midday. “The Experimental Armoured Force is no longer purely Experimental. The Ministry of Defence and Government has authorised an expansion of the Force and has allocated funds to further spread this to not only our armoured forces but the Army as a whole.”

That announcement got everyone talking for sure and the Colonel waited for the noise to die down before continuing. “I don’t know what happened, it seems that either someone saw common sense or Devine Intervention, either way I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. For budgetary reasons the planned adoption of Infantry and Cruiser tanks will not proceed, our urgings for a Universal Tank on grounds of effectiveness, cost and function appear to have sunk in and Vickers is starting work on a new design to replace our Mark Is and II’s used in trials.
I am sure there will be some.. opposition to these changes but they are necessary! As you know we can not plan to fight the last war as the French are doing, overseas we’ve all heard of the German rearmament and who here after reading Herr Hitler’s speeches can honestly say that War with Germany will not come and come soon?”

The silence was telling.

“We are going to be pioneers gentlemen and have no doubt that the Ministry and Army as a whole will be watching us like hawks, we will not fail to impress, we will give Great Britain the army she so rightly deserves.”
________________________________

On August 12th 1929 the British Government formally accepted the Experimental Armoured Force as a recognised unit and in turn forced the Army to accept it as well. Some of the old ‘Warhorses’ resisted both publically and privately bemoaning the loss of their beloved horse cavalry that had proven almost utterly ineffective in the First World War and loathed the adoption of the tank and truck but these objections were mostly ignored. With tensions in Europe rising the Government started belatedly to rearm. The expansion of plants required to produce the new mechanised armed forces envisioned and dreamed lead to a greater demand for workers and helped industries struggling in the throes of the Great Depression.

The divisive argument about the adoption of Infantry and so called Cruiser tanks was now firmly settled, there would be neither as it increased the logistics strain on units who would have to cater for multiple types of tanks and could lead to problems in battle where you have the wrong tank for the wrong job. The 18lber ‘Birch Gun’ Self Propelled artillery piece based on the slowly being retired Vickers Mk II tank was ordered into production as well as a larger tankette for carrying supplies and ammunition when the Carden-Lloyd Tankette was recognised as being barely suitable for purpose, this new machine would be designed by 1932 and would enter service as both a ‘prime mover’ for supplies and an artillery tug but with an enlarged open rear compartment could also haul an infantry squad with ease a huge improvement over the trucks used in exercises previously which had been left behind by their tracked colleagues in off road conditions.

The new Universal tank Mk 1 entered service a month after the new ‘Universal Carrier’ was released, armed with a longer barrelled and more modern version of the 47mm gun 3 pounder found on the Mark II Medium tanks the machine had a bow mounted machine gun as well as two more in the turret. The 47mm gun was capable of firing both armour piercing rounds and a small high explosive round for dealing with infantry and guns. Whilst it was an inferior weapon to the 2 pounder anti-tank gun entering service in terms of shell velocity it was deemed capable enough and was preferred for being more flexible.

This lead to the Universal Mark II 'Valentine' which would ‘hit the shelves’ in 1936 and was a superior machine in every respect over the now viewed as ‘experimental’ Mark I and would feature a new 47mm gun based on an enlarged 2lber retaining the high muzzle velocity of the gun but also the useful ability to fire a HE shell. The 2lber was also mated to the new Universal carrier (Bren Gun Carrier) as a mobile tank destroyer to provide support for infantry and armoured forces whilst designs for a new and heavily armoured tank destroyer and ‘assault tank’ capable of engaging strongpoints and enemy vehicles and shrugging off return fire was also pursued.

The Combined arms approach of the Army had its drawbacks, cost being the biggest. Each of the Combined Arms Brigades would consist of the following:

Recon: 2 x Companies of Daimler Armoured Cars, 16 Universal Carriers armed with Boys Anti-tank rifles and machine guns.
Main Force: One tank Battalion, 48 Mark II Universal Tanks.
One Infantry Battalion with Universal Carriers down to Platoon level as well as an attached motorised Machine gun battalion mounted in Universal Carriers (also armed with Boys AT Rifles and when they were introduced the 2lber)
Artillery detachment: One Mechanised Artillery Brigade of four batteries of 18lb ‘Birch Guns’ SP Artillery, one towed battery of 3.7 inch light howitzers towed by half tracks.
Engineering Detachment: One Company of Royal Engineers on halftracks and Universal Carriers.

The sheer expense of equipping such formations meant that their expansion was slow but the Army also finally embraced mechanisation, adopting a wide range of trucks, halftracks and the ubiquitous Universal Carrier. There were cutbacks too, the sheer cost of a mechanised army meant that some Regiments were disbanded as a cost saving measure. This was met with stiff opposition in the House of Commons but got through with the recognition that the modern British army thanks to its new doctrines were more efficient and powerful despite a reduction in manpower.

By 1939 there were six full Brigades of Combined Arms Units with the Mark IV SP Artillery entering production built to carry the brand new Royal Ordnance QF 25 Pounder rapidly replacing the aging 18 pounder and built on the Universal Mark II chassis. The Universal Mark III tank was also entering service, the Mark II was in general service with the army whilst the Mark III, called the Matilda by its men after a popular comic character (which became its official name) featured the new 6 pounder AT gun, like its 3 pounder predecessor was capable of also firing a HE round out to useful ranges.

Development of an ‘assault tank’ also saw success with the introduction of the Matilda. Nuffield tinkered with the Mark III to make it into an entirely different and much bigger beast. Armed with a 6 pounder the AT-1 (Assault tank design No 1) was a lumbering beast at 20kph and although the design featured a turret, the turret itself was fixed and immobile to save weight. The weight saved with the turret and the smaller engine went into armour and here Nuffield outdid themselves with a staggering 155mm of armour on the front and 104mm on the flank the AT-1 had thicker armour on its vitals than many cruisers. Designed to attack strongpoints like the feared Siegfried Line as well as provide anti-tank fire support for Combined arms units the AT-1 Centurion was starting to see service, issued out in 6 vehicle platoons to the Combined Arms Brigades the machines caused no end of woe for the attached Engineers who had to see if the 41 tonne machines could cross bridges and often had to make bridges for them. One useful feature of the AT-1 was its gun mounting. the mantlet and breech block could also accept the low velocity 94mm howitzer which fired a capable HE shell intended for obstacle and strong point demolition. In each platoon of six machines, two of them would be the howitzer armed variants

On the First of September 1939 Germany Invaded Poland and the British Army went on alert, all six CAB's (Combined Arms Battalions) were to ordered to form up to prepare to move should Diplomacy fail.



So for a change. What if the British react rationally.
 
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Does this sudden outbreak of rationality only affect the Army or is the Navy in on it as well?

Speculations on deployment.

I'd imagine they'd leave at least 2 of these Combined Arms Brigades at home to prevent an invasion threat.

There would probably be one in Norway and the others would be with the BEF (maybe assigned 1 per Corps).
 
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sharlin

Banned
Lets keep it to the single armed force at the moment in style with other recent posts. So assume the RN and RAF are still snarling and hissing each other when someone mentions aircraft, the RAF gets hard when you mention 'bombers' and the RN throws heavy books at you when you say 'modernise the Hood and DP AA guns for destroyers'.
 
Well organisation seems well sorted and to a certain extent tactics. Scale of deployment will have to be learned the hard way I suppose.

How long would it take to raise one of these formations from scratch?
 

sharlin

Banned
If the factories can churn out the equipment it would tied to recruitment and training, the big problem is coming to get it working together, mainly at a staffing level, getting the RAC, Infantry and Artillery to work and train together. When I was in the army I was a clerk at HQ 12 Mech Brigade in Aldershot and the map exercises and field exercises were interesting to watch. Especially as most of the younger officers had not worked with other branches of the Brigade before in such a manner.

You'd need to build up a large officer cadre pre-war who have trained extensively in a combined arms approach. The regiments of the CAB's would not be based together and would train independently for the most part (going of my own experiences here) probably with annual Brigade wide training on Salisbury Plain or in Wales.
 

sharlin

Banned
I'm not planning on doing a TL, it was more a thought exercise. That and I was fed up with the constant 'if germany does this, if germany does that' threads :p Decided the British army needed to give it a try too.
 

sharlin

Banned
with work being as it is, I don't have time to write and when I get home i'm too tired to work on even my slowly ongoing TL. Might be tempted to write some excerpts and ideas though.
 
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sharlin

Banned
Something I bashed out in my lunch break.

Somewhere North West of Arras.

Several miles away the 25lber’s were starting their fire mission, guided by spotters on the ground they were firing a short barrage before the Wellesley’s moved position to avoid counter battery fire. Over the distant thumps of artillery fire was the more high pitched cracks of rifle fire and the sewing machine rattle of machine guns.

“Captain if the boys in blue can do anything for us..it would be greatly appreciated.” The Brigadier said, glancing up at his RAF liaison who nodded in reply.

“We’ll do our best, but the Jerry’s have pounded our assets heavily same with the French but we’ll do what we can.”

The map board showed the situation. A large force of German infantry and tanks was to the South East, going hell for leather to encircle the garrison defending Arras and threaten to cut off the British Expeditionary Force from their French allies to the South. The German offensive into the Low Countries had rocked the BEF back on its heels and had mauled several formations but now at long last a prepared and planned counter attack was underway. It was felt that a successful attack would halt the Germans momentum and give the Allies time to breathe. The 7th and 2nd Combined Arms Brigades in addition to French and Belgian support were to launch an attack against the German Pincer, additional troops from the 23rd Motor Infantry Division and 5th Motor Infantry Division had been drafted in to lend weight to the attack whilst the RAF and Armee de l’Air were being called upon to support this attack with whatever they had to try and deny the Germans and their hated Stuka’s the air supremacy they had enjoyed over every battlefield thus far.

The planned move of two other Combined Arms Brigades to France had been put on hold in light of the dangerous situation the only other CAB was setting up defences round the port of Dunkirk as a ‘just in case’ measure as Lord Gort was already eyeing the port as a possible evacuation point. If the enemy was to be stopped, even for a short while it was to be here.
More heavy guns started pounding in the distance, the deep roar of some heavy French pieces that had last seen use in the Great War belching shells at distant targets, the rumble of gunfire making the ground round the dugout fairly shake.

The Brigadier and his CAB had been together since 1936 and he and his men knew their stuff, and his commander General Franklyn had been an enthusiastic supporter of the mechanised combined arms forces. It was now to see if the training and doctrine all came together to work outside of field and paper exercises.

Four miles away the crews of the British Valentine and Matilda tanks were battening down the hatches whilst the lumbering Centurion’s formed up to lead the attack. The squat Assault Tanks would lead the ‘charge’ if plodding along at 10 miles per hour could be called a charge, the Mark III Matildas and Mark II Valentines would be the mobile punch to the Centurion’s shield whilst the infantry in their Bren Gun Carriers would be with them all the way. That was the plan anyway.

“A Company. Advance!”

The Colonel’s voice sounded tinny over the radio but the order was heard by all and dozens of engines fired up as the artillery fired again having re-positioned to a pre-planned location. With a grind of gears the Centurion’s lurched forwards, all 12 of the Regiments machines formed into a rough arrow head whilst the Dingo armoured cars were already speeding ahead, radio antennae whipping back and forth, the eyes of the Regiment seeking their targets.

2nd CAB HQ Trenches – 20 minutes later

“Sir, our scouts have reported contact with the enemy, armoured cars and light tanks near the village of Agny!”

“Sir, the French have moved out, 3rd Mech Div is advancing along our flank as intended.”

“Air raid on 43 Battery by enemy level bombers, no reports of casualties yet Sir.”

“Captain where is our air support?”

“It is en route, they were intercepted by German fighters on the way but are still heading for the battle zone.”

“Very good.”

On the outskirts of Angy

The Panzer II’s 20mm cannon spat out a hail of shots the quick firing auto-cannon’s shells punching through the Tommy scout car causing it to burst into flames. Artillery fire was lashing the column and that was an unpleasant surprise and experience, there wasn’t supposed to be any enemy heavy artillery outside of Arras itself.

“Driver, forward, take us through that hedgerow, there is a machine gun nest there keeping our infantry down.”

The Panzer’s engine rumbled as the tank nosed its way through the low wall and hedge, demolishing both, turret already turning seeking targets.

“Panzer alarm!” The gunner yelled, he’d seen something and was already rotating the turret to the threat.

“Target..enemy Panzer unknown mark!”

“On!”

“Fire!”

The four shot burst was accurate and on target, one shot going wide the other three slamming home. The machine, it had to be British from its shape and design seemed to shrug off the blows, slowly turning its hull to face the Panzer as the German tank moved, its commander firing off a contact report as the machine jumped forwards.

A 6lb shot from the AT-1 punched into the forward plate just by the drivers’ position, tearing through the steel in a blizzard of red hot fragments. The driver was killed instantly and the radioman sat next to him injured by fragmentation and spalling, the metal dart fired from the AT-1’s gun kept going, smashing through the unfortunate loader in a welter of gore, the 20 year old man barely having time to scream.

“Out out out!”

The commander yelled, popping his hatch whilst the gunner did the same on the hatch on the side of the turret. They were throwing themselves out when the ammunition caught and the Panzer II ‘brewed up’, the unfortunate Radio man, too injured to move quickly roasted alive in the tank that now became his coffin. Lying down by the tracks of his burning machine the Panzer commander stuck his head up as bullets smacked against the flank of his former command and he saw Panzers. Lots of them as well as light tanks crowded with infantry heading South East with a purpose right towards the 5th Panzer Division.

5th Panzer HQ

“What the devil did they mean ‘Enemy panzers sighted’ what ones, where and how many? Get me an accurate report or don’t give me anything!”

“Air attack!”

“Scheiße! Into the trenches!”

The officer and his staff ran outside as the AA guns started hammering, men were firing rifles and machine guns at the attackers as they swept in at worryingly low altitudes. He recognised some of the planes, Blenheim’s and Battles, bombs clearly visible beneath their wings. Throwing himself into a trench, dragging his adjutant down with him the Commander of 5th Panzer could only wait for the blasts to stop and pray a bomb didn’t seek him out. When the gunfire ceased and the earth shaking roars of bombs stopped he clambered out from the slip trench to see a gaping crater where his HQ had been, the radio Panzer a converted Panzer I was a smoking wreck lying on its side nearby and the maps and charts were burning.

“Hans! Get me a working radio and get in contact with Rommel!”

For the moment the 5th Panzer Division’s headquarters was firmly off the air.
 

Garrison

Donor
Very interesting. Of course it doesn't take much to improve Anglo-French performance in the battle of France anyway. :) The French had everything but a signed copy of Hitler's orders making the Ardennes the target and there were plenty of people in both nations with the right idea out the proper use of armour.
 

sharlin

Banned
There was the people but not the will I am afraid. DeGalle was shouting into a hurricane and the UK was quite the doctrinal mess too. Not as screwed up as the French, we had the right ideas but implimented them badly or not at all and made some bloody stupid decisions (mainly due to a lack of funding) when it came to armour.
 
Interesting idea but some issues:

This combined arms brigade is designed for a European war. However the '10 year rule' in force meant an assumption that a European war was not considered likely, especially as Hitler is not yet in power.

The British Army was not that big and designed as an Empire police force ie it was organised around single battalions scattered around the world. Therefore there are not that many spare units to disband, and no tradition of permanent combined arms formations.

1929 - Great Depression?

One key element the CAB needs is better radios and signal organisation - one of the key advantages the Germans had.
 

sharlin

Banned
The depression hits home as does funding cuts which is why at the outbreak of the war there's only 6 CAB's on the books. The experimental armoured force trialed in the 20s in this case is adopted and whilst there was no tradition of combined arms we was experimenting with it and thanks to either a sudden surge of common sense or rationality in HM Government (Hah!) leads to it being adopted and being seen as the way forwards.

And whilst the depression hits, by having factories make things it keeps men employed and opens up the possibility to export equipment which will bring in some hard needed currency.

The Army is still the Imperial Police Force but there's now a core of forces which to build on in case of fighting in europe. The BEF for the future if you will.
 
with work being as it is, I don't have time to write and when I get home i'm too tired to work on even my slowly ongoing TL. Might be tempted to write some excerpts and ideas though.

True but maybe you could do what AJ Nolte does with some of his timelines and approve or veto ideas.
 

sharlin

Banned
True but maybe you could do what AJ Nolte does with some of his timelines and approve or veto ideas.

You mean that folks put forwards parts and it becomes a group effort? Interesting :)

I'd be up for that but i'd need the interst to make it worth it.
 
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sharlin

Banned
If folks want to put some ideas forwards for this i'm up for adding them.

although there's a lack of krautwank so that might be an issue...
 
If British tanks are equipped with a 6 pdr 57mm in 1939, do we see any butterflies in German tank armament and armour?
 
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