The Franco-Japanese war

A fantastic read, Shar! Well thought out and thoroughly descriptive. Your writing ability is in the top percentile of what I have seen here. It reads very much like a proper historical narrative. The emotional draw of the story is not so much from the technical aspects (which are very capably presented by the way) but more from the building draw to the spirited men who have taken these great ships to sea in defense of national interest.
I particularly like the way you portray the French crews. They know their ships are old and have many weaknesses and infirmities, but the take strength from their strong points and the beliefs in their own abilities. No matter the outcome they will perform their duties and uphold their countries honour.
All told this is very well done. Keep it coming .
Subscribed.
 

sharlin

Banned
[FONT=&quot]IJN Hatsuse– Gun 9, starboard broadside.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Enoki Tanzan[/FONT][FONT=&quot], at 24 years of age was a petty officer and captain of a six inch gun. He was also a man who cursed the day that Captain Tama decided to implement continuos aiming aboard the cruiser. Enoki hated the dotter, an abominable machine that confused and upset him, of all the gun captains he was the second worst at dotter training, it had almost cost him his job. Guns and the Captain had decided to give him another month to learn the co ordination of eye and strange rhythm with the laying wheel. Tazan loved his job with a passion, he was a fine and instinctive seaman, and he led his gun or boat crews with an easy confidence. That damned dotter was the only blot on his copy book.

Seeing the ugly shape of the Shimose shell rammed home, he waited for the same man to ram the charge. Already two loading numbers of his gun crew were down at the gun, and an ammunition handler had copped it too. Enoki turned his attention to his gun telescope, the ship was rolling slowly, he was tempted to just fire on the roll like he used to do with his casemate gun aboard Tone. But the habit of discipline and the long months of training took over and he spun the laying wheel, putting his telescope firmly on the midships turret gun of the enemy, the away roll started and Enoki turned his wheel the other direction, the target remained in his telescope and he slowed his turns as the away roll slowed. The roll back started and he got it right, changing the direction of his wheel and keeping the target firmly in sight. Would you believe it!
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[FONT=&quot] The breach clanged shut and Enoki heard “READY!”, he hit the firing switch and the shell was on its way, seconds later, the target was still in sight, but covered in a screen of smoke. A hit! Continuous aim seemed to work, but not the damn shells. Moments later, his target emitted a long flash and fired back at him with no obvious result. There was a bustle behind him and he turned to see a party of men arrive at the gun. There were four of them, each carrying a common shell. Looking along the deck, he could see other, similar groups making their way to the other guns.

“What’s going on?”

One of the men, a leading stoker answered. “Orders, Tanzan. Change to common shell, and these two men here to join your gun crew.”

It wasn’t every day that a gunner took gunnery orders from a stoker. But he smiled nevertheless. One of the men that were to stay was a gangling hand his own age. Not particularly bright, and a wild man when drunk [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Tsukawaki[/FONT][FONT=&quot] had been disrated twice and was now only an able seaman. But his long gangling arms and spare frame were ideally suited to loading drill, his normal gun was 6, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Fukunaka Tomoaki's [/FONT][FONT=&quot]piece. And [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Fukunaka Tomoaki's[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]crew had won almost every gunnery prize the ship had given in this short commission.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] Tanzan turned back to his wheel and spun it till he got the enemy ship back into his telescope, a steady spin backward and forward kept her there, after all it was only a gentle 10 degree roll here on a calm day in the Gulf.

“Ready” He fired and the shell hit was a far more satisfying burst of black smoke and yellow flame. Good old common shell. A few more seconds and he heard once again.

“Ready”

This time it was a miss, he was slightly behind the roll with the laying and the shell hit the water in front of the target. But he was back on now.

“Ready”

Another hit, just above the enemy gun, another yellow blast.

“Ready” that was the last shell of the four.

Just short – a pity only four shells had come up with that group of men…

“Ready.”

What the hell, lay and fire once again.

“Ready.”

Another shot, and a hit, above his target, knocking down ventilation cowls aboard the enemy and another fire. Enoki turned his head to see where the other shells had come from. He caught the retreating forms of two stokers jogging back to the ammunition hatch and two making their way to his gun. There was another two shells in the racks.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Tsukawaki[/FONT][FONT=&quot] had rammed the next shell as Enoki looked around his immediate surrounds, suddenly the charge was in and the breech was closed.

“Ready”

The gun crew, especially [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Tsukawaki[/FONT][FONT=&quot] gave him a look more eloquent than speech. Don’t worry about us, just fire this damn gun!

Enoki turned back to the task at hand, getting the laying back on, FIRE! A miss, a little to hasty, but he had the rhythm again now.

“Ready!”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And so he and his crew would continue, as long as there was an enemy in their sights and ammunition to fire they would do their duty for their ship and the Emperor without hesitation or pause even as their arms burned from effort and their eyes stung from the stench of Cordite.

1) A postcard produced in England at the outbreak of war by a company in Portsmouth showing a 6 inch gun crew reciving training. The RN had been the IJN's tutor, with many Japanese Officers learning their roles at British naval establishments as the two countries cemented their alliance.

2) Its very hard to find a good picture of a dotter but this is one of the pioneering systems aboard Captain Scott's ship HMS Scylla in which the Captain developed and tested many of the systems that would lead to modern gunnery practices aboard ships lasting until the introduction of radar aimed weapons. You can see the wheel on the side which alters the guns elevation as the one on the back which helps turn the gun. Turning these together to keep the sight on target was the essence of Continuous aim.

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You're quite welcome Shar. From the quality of your writing and the level of research you're putting into this I would think you'll be raising the bar for the rest of us here.

Keep it coming!
 

sharlin

Banned
[FONT=&quot]The Franco-Japanese War - earth, water and fire.
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[FONT=&quot]The Hoche was burning. Three hours of the long running fight had seen losses on both sides. The Japanese had lost a battleship and the whole French fleet had watched an armoured cruiser fall onto her side. In return the French had lost the brutally ugly Neptune to an explosion that annihilated the 12000 tonne battleship in an ear-splitting blast as well as the old Formidable which had sheered out of the formation ablaze amidships, running for the coast of Vietnam to try and beach herself and save as many crew as possible.
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[FONT=&quot]The ugly, ungainly Hoche the grand hotel of the French fleet, a ship flawed from the moment she had been laid down was still fighting despite five 12 inch rounds as well as an even dozen 6 inch rounds detonating on her flank or in her hull. The midships 10.8 inch barbette had been knocked out when debris from a hit on the high superstructure had fallen on the exposed gun, disabling its training gear, severing the steam pipes and starting a small ammunition fire. The single charge of powder had gone off with enough force to wreck the mounting but not threaten the ship.
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1)

[FONT=&quot]But her fore and aft 12 inch guns, protected by the steel and iron of their turrets continued to belch our rounds every three minutes at the Japanese line just over 5000 yards away now. Amidships her remaining 5.5 inch guns fired as quickly as they could, pumping out a shell as soon as it was loaded and aimed, the gun crews from the starboard battery helping to feed the guns and keep them in action when a shell entered the battery and cut down the men.
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[FONT=&quot]MN Formidable Speed 10 knots. – Midships near the fire.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Keep at it men! We’re getting it under control! Henri! Back on your feet man, an officer should inspire his men, keep at it, just a bit longer and we’ll be safe!”
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[FONT=&quot] Captain Bergeron yelled through the semaphore, his once immaculate uniform torn, smoke and bloodstained as he directed the upper deck bucket teams to fight the roaring blaze amidships. Below decks the stokers kept feeding the old ships boilers despite the fire over their heads.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The ships guns had fallen silent and every member of the crew was fighting to keep the old ship afloat.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Those not fighting the blaze were working with damage control parties to plug holes or shore up bulkheads. The Formidable had been hit multiple times close to the waterline, her iron belt had kept out some of the rounds bit it was not enough, water flowed through breaches in the sides giving the ship a 8 degree list which had forced the main guns turrets to push against their runners, jamming them in place.
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[FONT=&quot]Ahead a mere four and a half miles away was the coast of Vietnam. The ships navigator, despite splinter and shrapnel wounds was still on the bridge, his head bandaged up like an Egyptian Mummy directing a young midshipman as the ship ran for her life. If she could be beached she could later be salvaged, the same if she sunk in shallow water and the Formidable was sinking despite the heroic efforts of the crew, the ships bulkheads had corroded with age and her water tight integrity was not in line with the rest of the fleet and of course there was the fire amidships. Although the 6.4 and 5.5 magazines had been flooded and secured there was still detonations from shells in the wrecked box battery amidships.
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[FONT=&quot]“Captain! Mr Brochard recommends we start pulling the crew onto the upper decks, we’re approaching shoal waters and with the increased draught due to the flooding he says there’s a risk we could strike bottom.”
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[FONT=&quot]A runner said quietly as the Captain stopped urging the exhausted crew on. The Captain nodded. “Head below decks, inform the Chaplain and doctor and let them know we will be moving the injured first”.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Fillipe Bergeron had to raise his voice as another blast rocked the amidships blaze, this time from a trio of 47mm shells cooking off. The runner saluted smartly before running off into the smoke and the bowels of the ship. Walking to the small conning tower just aft of the funnel Captain Bergeron reached the speaking tubes.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Jaque, it's time to start getting your men out of there, we’re not far from the shore, you’ve done an excellent job but it’s time to go. Reduce speed to five knots and keep the engines ticking over with what ever steam’s left, I don’t want any more dead men or heroes in the engine room understood?”

“Yes sir, she’ll get you as close as she can. The engines have not failed us yet!”
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[FONT=&quot] The chief engineer replied, exhausted and almost numb from the brutal pace the ship had to keep as well as exhausted from constantly maintaining the old ships engines. The port engine had almost failed twice but was still turning even if it was vibrating heavily, the stokers were working in hellish heat in guts of the ship, air conditioning was many decades away but still they shoveled coal into the hungry furnaces of the ship who were now finally being relieved of duty, clambering up ladders and gantries, their skin as black as the coal they had been shoveling.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]MN Hoche speed 14 knots.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]An 8 inch round punched through the thin hull plating the metal barely slowing the solid armour piercing round. It ripped through the ship until it met something suitably solid and quite unique in all the worlds warships.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Ripping through the wall of the officers wardroom the round slammed into one of the marble wall panels , the tip of the shell deforming in a microsecond, the armour piercing nose flattening out as it met unyielding stone with its iron backing. The marble cracked but the shell ricocheted round the Wardroom, smashing the piano, chairs, tables and ripping a chunk out of the wooden floor before coming to a halt in the Officer’s bar. It would make a fine trophy if the ship survived.[/FONT]


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2)
[FONT=&quot]IJN Shikishima Speed 18 knots.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Not for the first time in the day Rear Admiral Tokioki cursed softly. The French line was still maintaining its position and formation despite the pounding it had received. With one ship sunk and another withdrawing flames could clearly be seen from fires raging on the decks and in the hulls of the ugly French ships but still they fought. And now the wind had shifted, blowing funnel and gun smoke towards his ships, shrouding the Frenchmen in a crude smoke screen.
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[FONT=&quot]"Sir, report from the Magazine Officers, we're down to about 35% of our ammunition and we are suffering from the repeated firings."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Admiral nodded, he'd studied gunnery extensively and knew that repeated firings of the main guns would slowly wear down the rifling of the massive 12 inch cannons fore and aft, this in turn would increase the amount of gas vented wastefully as the shells propellant ignited, reducing range and affecting accuracy. And with his main battery now down to 60 shots for each turret the chance of a decisive action was growing thin. With each shot fired there would be less pressure behind the shells as the erosion in the barrels got worse.
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[FONT=&quot]A pyrrhic victory at best could be claimed. One battleship sunk, one withdrawing two cruisers destroyed and eight torpedo boats sunk, but for the loss of one priceless Battleship and armoured cruiser, losses the Imperial Navy could not afford.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Suddenly shouting and cheers broke the Admiral from his thoughts, he turned his binoculars on the French line and was greeted with a sight that was both horrific and amazing. A modern battleship capsizing.[/FONT]


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[FONT=&quot]1)The Hoche after her 1900's refit with most of her ghastly superstructure cut away and removed to make her a more seaworthy ship and capable of sailing in anything more than a flat calm. It was in this condition that she fought the Battle of the Tonkin Gulf.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2) The Hoche's Wardroom in more peaceful times. French battleships were often extravagantly outfitted in terms of Officers accommodation and many featured such things like Champagne cellars and extensive oak fittings, all of which added weight. In the Hoche this reached its peak with her having marble fittings, leading to her being nicknamed the floating hotel.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]3) Another ship disappears beneath the warm waters of the Tonkin Gulf.
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Note to self. NEVER DO ENGINEERING IN SUCH DETAIL AGAIN!

Much research required.
Do, DO!
And yeah it was kinda boring, oh well :p
Heretic!
Having read it, I must say: Man, you are my idol. Where on earth did you find such an intricate details on pre-dreadnought ships? And seriously, it is an excellent read. Those details really make the stuff you write come alive, like being read in a book on the battle itself. Keep on.
Well, 'idol' is a bit too strong. But, otherwise ja. Wow.
 
Great TL

I just read the whole timeline and it is very good!

Subscribed and eagerly waiting for more :)
 

Coulsdon Eagle

Monthly Donor
As a newbie to the forum but an avid Castles of Steel man, can I just add my own compliments on this tale. It is both extremely interesting but also well written and researched. Really enjoying it. :)
 
Just wanted to add in my praise with that of the others. It's an excellent timeline, Sharlin! I love how it combines in-the-trenches PoVs with lots of technical details. It doesn't hurt that it is an interesting match up that I have not seen before, either. Thanks, and please continue!

Oh, and I for one and rooting for a Japanese victory. Let's show the world that Emperor Meiji's boys can take on anyone in the world, even a modern European power! :D
 

sharlin

Banned
The Franco-Japanese War - A step back in time (mainly because I forgot to post this bit...)

[FONT=&quot]The shot that had killed the Neptune had come from the Hatsuse a long range shot as the ship was turning to re-gain her position in the line. The 12 inch round had struck the Neptune’s amidship 13.4 inch barbette and detonated on the thin shield over the gun and its crew. The blast killed or wounded all the gun crew, disabling the gun but far worse was the flames that ignited a ready to use bag of nitrocellulose propellant that was waiting at the top of the small tunnel that the ammunition was winched up.. The propellant didn’t burn, it exploded with considerable force, flames and white hot shrapnel lanced down the passageway igniting the next bag. An unstoppable sequence was started with the lucky hit. The sequence ended a few seconds later when a blast of flames and ruined metal tore into the crowded ammunition chamber for the huge gun several decks above.
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[FONT=&quot]Instead of having large magazines where all ammunition was drawn from the Neptune and her three half sisters had a larger number of smaller magazines, each of the huge 13.4 inch rifles had a magazine for itself whilst the battery of 5.5 inch weapons had a magazine for every four guns. Each of these magazines was unshielded, not protected by blast or fire proof doors. It made loading the magazines quick and efficient. But now, in battle, horrifically vulnerable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tonnes of propellant and ammunition were waiting to be used, and the flames bathed the silken bags in its embrace. The unstable propellant didn’t take long to be set off. The blast ripped the side of the ship out. The heavy barbette above, now unsupported by the hull folded down, ripping away in a howl of tearing metal but the Neptune’s agony had just started. The explosion gutted the interior of the ship, reaching one of the 5.5 inch gun magazines which detonated seconds later almost in sympathy. The maelstrom of destruction did not stop as the Neptune blasted herself apart. Flames and debris travelling down the length of the ship as she literally came apart at the seams. With her hull fatally compromised the flames were finally smothered by water pouring in through the hull. The crew at their action stations didn’t stand a chance. Those not killed in the blasts were trapped by the inferno that consumed the lower decks whilst those on the upper decks were thrown against bulkheads and gun mountings as the ship lurched over as she flooded.
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[FONT=&quot]As the Neptune’s agony ended, another ship was in her death roes. MN Chateaurenault bereft of the guiding hand of her bridge and victim of three 12 inch hits as well as numerous other smaller shells was still steaming. Her third funnel was missing, whilst the first was missing the top six feet, the rest of the iron and steel tube resembled a siv due to splinter damage.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The cruisers struggling engines still pushed her forwards at 12 knots as she sought the safety of the distant French line, still under fire and still on fire from the hits she’d sustained. But despite the terrible damage she’d sustained, the big cruiser was still fighting. Her remaining guns barking out in defiance at any Japanese ship that could be seen. What could not be seen through the smoke was the four Japanese Destroyers coming up astern of the cruiser, whilst the others had headed off in persuit of the withdrawing French Torpedo Boats this quartet had been detached to deal with the badly damaged French cruiser.
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[FONT=&quot]As damaged as she was she still had a bite. The bright flash of a 6.5 inch shell detonating on the flank of the Yashima was proof of this. The few remaining quick firing guns were training on the advancing Japanese destroyers whilst the guncrews of the remaining 5.5.inch weapons stacked ammunition by their guns.
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[FONT=&quot]The crews were exhausted, sweat and smoke streaked but they stood by their guns like the professionals they were. But the damage was telling, flooding was giving her a 9 degree list and speed was down to 12 knots.
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[FONT=&quot]Six inch guns were slowly knocking the cruiser into a floating scrap pile, her few remaining guns fired back defiantly but splinters were causing horrific casualties amongst the brave men manning the weapons as the cruiser absorbed hit after hit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Down in the boiler room a round slammed into one of the huge iron boilers. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The boiler was thick and strong, but the steam lines weren't, fragments ripped the lines in a dozen places. The men not killed by the fragments were scalded by the steam, hellish at 150 psi and 300F.[/FONT]

Four Japanese destroyers charged the crippled Chataurenault their little 6lb guns firing to try and suppress the guns training on them. Cutting through the waves at 26 knots the small ships were difficult targets to hit yet one boat suffered repeated hits from a pair of Nordenfelt machine guns and one repeating cannon firing a stream of 1lb shots. Lacking any form of armour the destroyer was riddled with small caliber gunfire that reaped a fearsome toll on the exposed crew and the small ship, now under the command of a Sub-Lieutenant sheered away trailing smoke, her crew decimated, now struggling to get their ship to safety.

But as the French gunners concentrated their fire on one vessel, its squadron mates turned sharply, compressed air launching their torpedoes from the single tubes on their decks. Bereft of her helm and most of her engine power there was little chance they would miss, but still they did with most of the six torpedoes launched. The one that hit was more than enough though for the battered cruiser.

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2)

Mercifully the Chataurenault sank slowly, settling on an even keel, giving her brave crew enough time to abandon ship, the survivors were picked up later by the Japanese who had been impressed by the ship and its crews defiance against impossible odds.

1) A drawn image of the Neptune exploding, drawn after the war by a crewman onboard the Marceau
2) The Chateaurenault going down, her wreck and many others from this battle were discovered by Dr Ballard in 2001, the French cruiser lays on her side in fairly good condition
 
Of iron and steel ships and men of titanium. Your last update was touching.
 
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sharlin

Banned
[FONT=&quot]Guns and Gravel[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]IJN Shikishima speed 18 knots[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The twenty eighth round from heavy guns was loaded and aimed at the enemy. Everything was in readiness and the crew in the gunhouse cringed for the twenty eighth time as they readied for the concussion, but with much less conviction than at the start of the battle. Their hearing was rendered less sensitive by the repeated firings, in some cases the change would be permanent.

The firing circuits closed and the turret officer looked out of his sighting hood as the guns were fired. The normal roaring blast followed from the left hand gun, but only a tearing wrenching noise and a subdued blast from the right hand gun. A cloud of debris was visible from the sighting hood, flying out in the direction of the enemy. What appeared to be the shell fell into the sea 300 yards away. The turret officer came back into the gunhouse and to the stunned faces of the guns crews, he gestured to the captain of the right hand gun and the two of them went out the hatch in the rear to inspect the guns.

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1)
There was chaos at the muzzle of the right hand gun. The paint along both barrels was blistered and blackened of course, and guns were hot. But looking in the muzzle there seemed to have been some sort of tearing impact just before the muzzle, as if the bore of the gun had somehow shrunk and constricted the shell. More than six inches of the liner was protruding from the muzzle, and a good foot of the liner on one side was gone completely, blown out to sea it seemed by the shell. The left hand gun had slightly less than an inch of liner showing.

As far as they could tell from a minute’s inspection the left hand gun appeared un injured. The burst of a French quick firing shell against the armour amidships convinced them it was time to go back into the gunhouse.

Orders were given to rope of the right hand gun and to bring the left hand gun back into action. The turret officer scribbled a note to be taken to the Captain, he called for a runner but at almost the same time a runner arrived from the bridge with a message from the captain demanding an explanation. The note was handed over and the gunhouse crew got back to work.

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[FONT=&quot]This incident was an example of a Steel choke. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]As in most guns, the continual drag of the projectile driving bands caused the liners of these guns to be gradually stretched forward. The resulting projection at the muzzle could be simply cut off, but in addition the liners began to form a ridge in the bore near the shoulders of the outer tube the actual muzzle of the gun. This ridge, sometimes known as "copper choke" as it tended to accumulate copper from the projectile driving bands, narrowed the bore and could cause enough drag to initiate the projectile fuze, with the result that a premature detonation would occur either within the bore or shortly after the projectile exited the muzzle as happened here.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]MN Formidable speed 5 knots[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Formidable was slowly coasting to a halt, her propellers were barely turning now, carried forwards by her own momentum and the tide.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Most of her crew were on the upper deck, crowded round the forward turret, its black form dented and scarred but not penetrated by Japanese shells. The ship was a mess, shell splinters had torn up the wooden and steel decking, the funnel was tilting at a jaunty 20 degrees and resembled a siv whilst the ships Doctor and his orderlies, accompanied by the ships priest saw to the wounded, their uniforms stained with blood. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Fortunately the radio still worked and messages had been sent ashore requesting aid, the town of Dien was not too far away and that had a working radio reciver, aid would come, it was just a matter of time until it did. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Formidable lurched slightly as her jutting ram bow slid into the mud and sand of a sandbank little more than half a mile from the shore, the ship raised up slowly, the damaged stern sinking lower into the water, the Captains walkway disappearing under the waves. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The battered French ship ground to a halt, bow on to the shore with only a slight list. Captain Bergeron walked amongst the exhausted crew, offering words of encouragement and praise that were truly heartfelt. Against a more modern opponent in an outclassed ship they had fought hard and fought well. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Officers directed the men to patch the damaged boats that could be recovered or to build some rafts to transfer the wounded. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The evacuation took almost two hours, by which time it was becoming urgent to get off the ship. The heat of the fire amidships was causing the iron and steel hull to start to buckle and sag, the Formidable's keel was bent out of shape from the heat and the weight of her resting on the sandbank, even if she was salvaged she would have to be scrapped now.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As the crew swam or rowed ashore a detachment of Colonial troops were waiting ashore. [/FONT]
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2)

[FONT=&quot]Of the 650 crew aboard, 583 survived. Captain Bergeron was later promoted to Rear Admiral and went on to command the 2nd Cruiser Squadron in the European War of 1916.


1) A 12 inch salvo being fired, this image was taken pre-war during a gunnery shoot.

2) One of the Formidable's twin propellers. The ship eventually slipped off the sandbank due to her structural damage and the sea, rolling onto her starboard side, totally submerged. in 30 meters of water. Declared a war grave after the war the ship was never salvaged and the French established a coastguard station ashore to make sure she was not looted by salvagers. She is now a popular diving spot and is in excellent condition.
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I wish this wasn't so good. My beloved France is going to lose this war and never recover Alsace-Lorraine if I can properly interpret foreshadowing. Yet I can't stop reading. You're just the worst.
 

sharlin

Banned
Don't count the Japanese eggs before they are cooked...nor the French ones for that matter.

I'm just waiting to see if folks spot the little easter egg I put in.
 
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