If Justinian restored the Roman Empire by Reconquering the entire Mediterranean coast would there still be large scale hellenisation (assimilation into greek culture) in the Byzantine Empire like irl?
If Justinian restored the Roman Empire (reconquered the Mediterranean mostly) would there still be mass hellenisation in the Byzantine Empire?
- Thread starter Angel Grace
- Start date
he would lose it like otl to lombards and other groups. maybe change iberian demography
Samsara123
Banned
Well maybe? i mean it depends what’s left of the infrastructure to spread roman/greek culture, thankfully there hasn’t been that much cultural drift yet from the fall of the roman empire(hell there are still old people who remember that they were Romans) in spain and Italy, Gaul which has been lost for far longer will take much longer as the roman infrastructure fell into disrepair.
Eventually it will spread again but it will be the lingua franca of the equestrian class with it trickling down into the remain roman middle class(merchants and landowners) eventually
He might need more luck and skill than normally plausible but it is certainly doable.
Eventually the Levant and Egypt will be Hellenized if heresies are being extirpated alongside recalcitrant elites and strong adherents being side-lined from the larger community.
In Italy and Iberia I don't think mass Hellenization is likely, especially if Latin remains a second language of the empire and basically the language of administration and the elites in the West.
Then u avert the plagues.
Like come on this is a alternatehistory site, we're asking for ways to make something possible.
I think the old status quo (latin as the main language in the west, while Greek is the most important in the east) would be mostly maintained. Both languages still held prestige in the government by that time. Also, contrary to modern empires, the Romans didn't really care about spreading languages, preferring to stick with the language of the local bureaucracy when possible.
Common about romanboo here plus OTL Justinian got all the luck and his tyranny make him hated by everyone sans the greeks
You mean the entire western part of the Empire?
Justinian sure was a controversial Emperor but as far as I remember he's not universally hated..
Coivara
Banned
People weren't just using Greek in the East for the lolz, the Greeks walked so the Romans could run. The Middle-East was already hellenized before Rome rose to be the world power. The Romans just showed up in the East, took over the Diadochi states and continued from there. The Romans were another hellenized state too, they weren't Greek but their culture was strongly influenced by them.
The problem is that the Romans did the same thing to the West. The one exception is Britain, it seems.
It's also worth remembering, that it's generally agreed that by the 6th century, the proto-iberian romance languages had already split from vulgar latin. So the West isn't even speaking latin anymore - or better saying, everyone thinks they're speaking latin but everyone is actually speaking a bunch of increasingly divergent languages.
Despite the germanic conquests, people kept speaking proto-romance languages. Britain was the one exception, where British Romance died out and was replaced by germanic languages instead.
So yeah... you need to somehow get the entire West to start assimilating Greek Culture and Language, even through they're already Roman and therefore already "Hellenized" in a sense. Kinda complicated. I can't see the entire West shifting from Proto-Romance Languages to Greek. Especially considering Latin being liturgic..
The problem is that the Romans did the same thing to the West. The one exception is Britain, it seems.
It's also worth remembering, that it's generally agreed that by the 6th century, the proto-iberian romance languages had already split from vulgar latin. So the West isn't even speaking latin anymore - or better saying, everyone thinks they're speaking latin but everyone is actually speaking a bunch of increasingly divergent languages.
Despite the germanic conquests, people kept speaking proto-romance languages. Britain was the one exception, where British Romance died out and was replaced by germanic languages instead.
So yeah... you need to somehow get the entire West to start assimilating Greek Culture and Language, even through they're already Roman and therefore already "Hellenized" in a sense. Kinda complicated. I can't see the entire West shifting from Proto-Romance Languages to Greek. Especially considering Latin being liturgic..
You don't get the best people around you to do your job through sheer luck alone. Justinian may have not been a great general, like some emperors of the past, but he knew how to delegate important tasks to the right people. Mistakes were made of course, and that is why his legacy is considered controversial nowadays but to call 38 years of competent reigns, rich of achievements and what not, just luck seems blind to me.
This is the second time I see you making this statement. Where did you get this idea that Justinian was a tyrant and hated by everyone but the Greeks (and exactly why would only the Greeks love him)? Sure, he was not as loved as Caesar or Constantine, but there is a whole kilometers-wide middle ground between a Caesar and a tyrant (which is where most people would place Justinian.
Nope. If you're talking about Spain, southern Gaul, Italy and North Africa being reconquered, these regions would speak latin. It's hard af to achieve it with Justinian - The conquest of Italy already overextended the empire. Southern Italy and some coastal cities in Africa could be hellenized, but the western parts would speak Latin.
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The lingua franca was actually latin, but the vernacular was the vulgar latin variants of each region.
This wouldn't be hard at all actually. Make the Italian Reconquest quick and easy and that's surprisingly simple. There are a number of PoDs available for making the reconquest of Italy happen before the Plague kicked off.