TL-191: After the End

So if Chihuahua, Sonora, Baja and the Caribbean states became the go-to spots for retirees, what is the situation like ITTL’s New Mexico and Florida by 2022?
 
So if Chihuahua, Sonora, Baja and the Caribbean states became the go-to spots for retirees, what is the situation like ITTL’s New Mexico and Florida by 2022?

By 2022, New Mexico is also a popular state for retirees.

The state is also a very popular tourist destination. New Mexico in TTL is the location of the Grand Canyon.

New Mexico also has a popular reputation as a welcoming place for artists and musicians. By 2022, the state hosts multiple annual music festivals, the most famous of which is the Battlefield Jamboree. New Mexico also has a rapidly growing local filmmaking community, though it’s not yet as large or well established as the filmmaking communities in Los Angeles or New York City.

Like other US states in TTL, there are some significant differences in the area that in our world consists of New Mexico and Arizona. For example, Phoenix doesn’t exist in TTL.

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Florida is not as popular with US retirees in TTL in comparison with our world. While Florida, especially in the southern areas of the state, is considered a popular tourist destination, Florida also has to directly compete with Cuba, and other Caribbean states, for tourist attention.

Overall, Florida in TTL is not as wealthy or developed by 2022 in comparison to our world, though it’s one of the wealthier states of the Midsouth.
 
Overall, Florida in TTL is not as wealthy or developed by 2022 in comparison to our world, though it’s one of the wealthier states of the Midsouth.

So Florida has none of that sweet, sweet Disney money but it's tourism industry is the only thing keeping the state the relevant one of the Midsouth. Cuba's probably the one with the Disneyworld analogue and all the casinos to.
 
By 2022, New Mexico is also a popular state for retirees.

The state is also a very popular tourist destination. New Mexico in TTL is the location of the Grand Canyon.

New Mexico also has a popular reputation as a welcoming place for artists and musicians. By 2022, the state hosts multiple annual music festivals, the most famous of which is the Battlefield Jamboree. New Mexico also has a rapidly growing local filmmaking community, though it’s not yet as large or well established as the filmmaking communities in Los Angeles or New York City.

Like other US states in TTL, there are some significant differences in the area that in our world consists of New Mexico and Arizona. For example, Phoenix doesn’t exist in TTL.

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Florida is not as popular with US retirees in TTL in comparison with our world. While Florida, especially in the southern areas of the state, is considered a popular tourist destination, Florida also has to directly compete with Cuba, and other Caribbean states, for tourist attention.

Overall, Florida in TTL is not as wealthy or developed by 2022 in comparison to our world, though it’s one of the wealthier states of the Midsouth.
Though Phoenix doesn't exist based on the circumstances and people that lead up to its founding, are there any other settlements that take its place in its eponymous Valley?
 
Las Vegas doesn’t exist in TTL as either a major urban center or gambling destination. Reno is the center of legalized gambling in Nevada in TTL.
So it's just a much smaller city and an outpost on the highway for tourists and truckers passing through? Would there be any business happening there like logistics, manufacturing, or military in lieu of gambling and tourism?
 
Though Phoenix doesn't exist based on the circumstances and people that lead up to its founding, are there any other settlements that take its place in its eponymous Valley?
Nothing close to the size of Phoenix in our world.

IIRC, Tempe (For McDowell), and Mesa were all founded before Pheonix and both are located in the Salt River Valley as well. Just south Maricopa (then known as Maricopa Wells) served as a relay station as well. Any of these could take Pheonix's place as the main settlement in the area. In addition without the state goverment being located there, and subsequent investments it is likely this whole area does remain sparsely populated. Tucson likely remains larger in TTL.

So Florida has none of that sweet, sweet Disney money but it's tourism industry is the only thing keeping the state the relevant one of the Midsouth. Cuba's probably the one with the Disneyworld analogue and all the casinos to.

I'm thinking New Mexico would actually be a great place for the Disney World equivalent, it is centrally located and Albuquerque is likely much larger in TTL for the reasons David already noted.
 
I wouldn’t describe the situation in either Britain or France necessarily as “collective guilt,” in regards to the former alliance with the CSA. It’s more of a case of what might be termed “national regret” in both countries, though more pronounced in Britain by 2022; the idea being that, aside from the moral failing of supporting a slave state in the 1860s and a genocidal dictatorship during the Second Great War, it was also a terrible mistake to antagonize the United States.

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The respective heydays of the British and French empires are not necessarily generally focused on in either country’s education system by 2022. This is in part because an in-depth focus on colonialism is seen in both countries as having to focus on the post-Second Great War collapse of both empires.
How do you think things would have panned out if Britain had resolved to have as little to do as possible with the CSA and gone with the USA instead?
 
What about Baja California, Chihuahua and Sonora? Do they have cities that are bigger ITTL than IOTL? As we're already at it. What about Monterrey?

By 2022, Baja California, Sonora, and Chihuahua are all popular destinations in the US for tourists and retirees, especially Baja California and Sonora. All three states tend to be grouped together as being part of the Far Southwest region.

Within these three states, Tijuana, in Baja California, Cabo San Lucas, in Baja California, La Paz, in Baja California, and Guaymas in Sonora, are among the fastest growing urban areas, although this growth, as in other big US cities, tends to be focused around downtown locations, instead of suburbs. Tijuana and Guaymas also benefited economically from the presence of major US military facilities.

Tijuana, along with Reno, are the cities in the western USA with the closest reputations to that of Havana, in terms of their respective nightlifes.

By 2022, the municipal government of Tijuana has ambitions to tie its growth as closely as possible with that of San Diego. Some in the local government of Tijuana even advocate creating some kind of interstate super-municipality with San Diego, although no one is certain how such a government entity would work in practice, or if it would even be even be possible to establish.

The city of Hermosillo, in Sonora, is smaller in comparison to our world, as it never became a major center for automobile manufacturing.

By 2022, Chihuahua is the most industrialized out of the three Far Southwest states, although the industrial and manufacturing aspects of Chihuahua’s economy are smaller in comparison to our world.

All three Far Southwest states have continued to attract new residents by 2022, both from foreign immigration and from internal migration from elsewhere in the USA. For example, Tijuana has a sizable “Dixieland” enclave of migrants from the Midsouth by 2022.

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Monterrey is one of most prosperous cities in Mexico by 2022, and is a major center of investment by US companies. The city has a somewhat smaller manufacturing economy in comparison to our world.
 
So it's just a much smaller city and an outpost on the highway for tourists and truckers passing through? Would there be any business happening there like logistics, manufacturing, or military in lieu of gambling and tourism?

By 2022, the economy of Las Vegas remains focused on those passing through the city while traveling within the region. There is gambling there, but it’s not to the size and notoriety of Reno, Tijuana, Cabo San Lucas, or Havana in TTL. Las Vegas does have its own distinct culture centered around cars and racing, echoing the distinct car and racing subcultures in other cities and towns across the Southwest and Far Southwest of the USA in TTL.
 
IIRC, Tempe (For McDowell), and Mesa were all founded before Pheonix and both are located in the Salt River Valley as well. Just south Maricopa (then known as Maricopa Wells) served as a relay station as well. Any of these could take Pheonix's place as the main settlement in the area. In addition without the state goverment being located there, and subsequent investments it is likely this whole area does remain sparsely populated. Tucson likely remains larger in TTL.



I'm thinking New Mexico would actually be a great place for the Disney World equivalent, it is centrally located and Albuquerque is likely much larger in TTL for the reasons David already noted.

That’s generally accurate description of how those particular areas of New Mexico developed in TTL, absent the establishment of Phoenix.
 
One question in general: OTL South is called Midsouth, the edges of Mexico that became part of the CSA/USA ITTL are called Far Southwest. What kind of geographic termini are there to remember ITTL's USA that don't exist IOTL?
 
How do you think things would have panned out if Britain had resolved to have as little to do as possible with the CSA and gone with the USA instead?

It’s hard to say. Even if different British governments go out of their way to cultivate good diplomatic ties with the USA following the War of Secession in TTL, a US government and society that embraces anything equivalent to the Remembrance ideology as shown in the series may not reciprocate British diplomatic efforts. However, if the British were to reverse their positions from the War of Secession period and offer support for the USA in any equivalent to the Second Mexican War, it might be enough to ultimately prevent the US from becoming a military foe to the British Empire.

In such a scenario, a world where the British make an effort to forge a lasting alliance with the USA following an equivalent to the US loss in the series in the Second Mexican War would likely lead to a different set of international alliance systems by the time if/when an equivalent to the First Great War occurs. Do the British also cultivate some kind of alliance with the German Empire against the French and Russians?

Perhaps an equivalent to the First Great War would see an Anglo-US-German alliance against a CS-Franco-Russian alliance, with Mexico allied with the CS/France/Russia bloc and Japan allied with the British Empire/US/German Empire bloc.

Assuming that the British Empire and its US and German allies are triumphant in an equivalent to the First Great War, then the subsequent butterflies would make the world unrecognizable from the actual TL-191 series. Perhaps this war results in the USA conquering and reabsorbing the CSA and also gaining territory from Mexico, the Canadians gaining Alaska from Russia, the British and Germans dividing the French Empire between themselves, and the Germans establishing some kind of political hegemony in East Central Europe at the expense of the Russian Empire. In such a scenario, I think that the British would remain one of the world’s great powers, though I don’t know how an equivalent to decolonization would take place for the European empires in this world’s 20th Century. It’s also perhaps questionable if an Anglo-US-German alliance would continue to hold together after winning its equivalent to the First Great War, or how this bloc would respond to a new external foe such as a revanchist, monarchical fascist Russian Empire, or an expansionist Japanese Empire.

There are, of course, probably many other ways in which a TL-191 variant featuring a reconciled USA and British Empire could play out.
 
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One question in general: OTL South is called Midsouth, the edges of Mexico that became part of the CSA/USA ITTL are called Far Southwest. What kind of geographic termini are there to remember ITTL's USA that don't exist IOTL?

The USA in TTL has territorially large Pacific and Caribbean regions.

There is some overlap regarding US geographical terminology in TTL. For example, British Columbia by 2022 is considered to be part of the Pacific Northwest, Alberta is considered to be part of the Rocky Mountain West, and Yukon and Nunavut are often described as being part of the Far North or Far Northwest alongside Alaska. However, the states admitted from the former Dominion of Canada are still popularly referred to in the USA by 2022 as the Canadian states, while many in Alaska argue that their state is distinct from Yukon and Nunavut. Some in the USA also use terms such as “The North” or “The Far North” as descriptions for the Canadian states as a whole.
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
By 2022, Baja California, Sonora, and Chihuahua are all popular destinations in the US for tourists and retirees, especially Baja California and Sonora. All three states tend to be grouped together as being part of the Far Southwest region.

Within these three states, Tijuana, in Baja California, Cabo San Lucas, in Baja California, La Paz, in Baja California, and Guaymas in Sonora, are among the fastest growing urban areas, although this growth, as in other big US cities, tends to be focused around downtown locations, instead of suburbs. Tijuana and Guaymas also benefited economically from the presence of major US military facilities.

Tijuana, along with Reno, are the cities in the western USA with the closest reputations to that of Havana, in terms of their respective nightlifes.

By 2022, the municipal government of Tijuana has ambitions to tie its growth as closely as possible with that of San Diego. Some in the local government of Tijuana even advocate creating some kind of interstate super-municipality with San Diego, although no one is certain how such a government entity would work in practice, or if it would even be even be possible to establish.

The city of Hermosillo, in Sonora, is smaller in comparison to our world, as it never became a major center for automobile manufacturing.

By 2022, Chihuahua is the most industrialized out of the three Far Southwest states, although the industrial and manufacturing aspects of Chihuahua’s economy are smaller in comparison to our world.

All three Far Southwest states have continued to attract new residents by 2022, both from foreign immigration and from internal migration from elsewhere in the USA. For example, Tijuana has a sizable “Dixieland” enclave of migrants from the Midsouth by 2022.

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Monterrey is one of most prosperous cities in Mexico by 2022, and is a major center of investment by US companies. The city has a somewhat smaller manufacturing economy in comparison to our world.
The USA in TTL has territorially large Pacific and Caribbean regions.

There is some overlap regarding US geographical terminology in TTL. For example, British Columbia by 2022 is considered to be part of the Pacific Northwest, Alberta is considered to be part of the Rocky Mountain West, and Yukon and Nunavut are often described as being part of the Far North or Far Northwest alongside Alaska. However, the states admitted from the former Dominion of Canada are still popularly referred to in the USA by 2022 as the Canadian states, while many in Alaska argue that their state is distinct from Yukon and Nunavut. Some in the USA also use terms such as “The North” or “The Far North” as descriptions for the Canadian states as a whole.
How American or Mexican are these states and cities in terms of demographics and language spoken ? Are they more pieces of the rest of the USA in what use to be Mexico or more pieces of Mexico in the USA? Also Id ask the same overall questions about Canada (North/Far North)and the former CSA (Mid-South)including Cuba . Overall are assimilation and re integration truly working in all those areas by 2022 or not so much ?
 
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