These Fair Shores: The Commonwealth of New England

France
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Cripes, France's population is significantly bigger ITTL.

If France is the sixth largest economy, and Britain, Russia and Japan occupy the top three positions (not necessarily in that order), who are the fourth and fifth largest?
 
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Stupendous as always, @CosmicAsh. I am inspired and generally bowled over by your ability to not only turn out great lore, but great graphics.
Now for some questions:

Why were the peace terms imposed on France comparatively more lenient? Did Napoleon I accept an alt-Frankfurt proposal ITTL? If so, what factors led him to do this as opposed to the events of our world?

Given that Napoleon II was six years old in 1817, who was the 'power behind the throne' during the early part of his reign? Talleyrand? One or more of the Marshals?

Finally, how are the rest of Europe's relations with France in 2021 and vice versa? Is the French claim to its Rhine borders something official but not really pressing in day-to-day diplomacy, or is it a major sticking point in Paris' relations with Prussia, etc? Given that a Rhine frontier would remove Flanders and Alsatia from the map, as well as halving the Netherlands and taking a fair bit from Prussia, are these countries generally anti-French in their outlook?

I eagerly await more from what's fast becoming my favourite TL on this site.
 
Cripes, France's population is significantly bigger ITTL.

If France is the sixth largest economy, and Britain, Russia and Japan occupy the top three positions (not necessarily in that order), who are the fourth and fifth largest?
Judging from the World Map, it's probably China and the United States.
 
Given that the nations on the world map are ordered by size of economy, we get Russia, China, Japan, the United States, the United Kingdom, Argentina and Canada as the eight leading economies of the world ITTL.
 
Unless the Indian Union counts as one?

I suspect the *US ranks a bit below France in the economic rankings ITTL.
I am curious to find out how integrated America is into the global economy. The closed borders in the west and national supremacist rhetoric suggests a high degree of isolation, but the the 'tri-city' region still exists, and America still possesses both the Great Lakes and the mighty Mississippi, so I expect much commercial activity with the rest of the Atlantic.
 
Great article! I have many questions.

  • What is the Dupont affair?
  • What are the natural French borders? Do they extend to the Rhine?
  • Which of the presidents hold the most power? Or do they share roughly equal amounts of power
  • What happened to the French overseas territories? I assume they got taken over by foreign powers during the Great Continental War. Either way, how did they still hold on to St. Pierre and Miquelon?
  • With two IRL Green politicians holding prominent political posts in France, I'm assuming that the Greens constitute a significant portion of the left across the world? Or is environmentalism bipartisan?
  • Also, I'm not sure if it's an error or maybe I'm blind, but in the world map, it looks like there's an island north of Flevoland. Do the Dutch polderize the Markermeer too?
 
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Cool! I hope you can go into more detail with some posts later. It'd be cool to see how nations like New Zealand & Fiji persevered during the days of British Imperialism.

I will touch on these countries in the future!

I'm assuming that no big wars happen in the 20th century that necessitate the development of nuclear bombs. What made countries lean to bioweapons anyway?

Speaking of nuclear, which forms of energy production are the most popular right now? I can imagine renewables being on top of the scene due to climate change being a greater issue.

Also, if I may ask, how did the climate get even worse than it did compared to OTL?

Bioweapons were the natural outgrowth of chemical weapons, which were common during the Great Contintental War.

Renewable energy is a primary concern for many governments, though some countries, like Arabia, have seen it fit to try and drive down the price of oil to continue to sell it. There is also a push among many nations to transition to Natural Gas for electricity generation.

The climate is generally in a worse shape due to Russia's rapid population growth and economic development, along with the United States horrific record on the environment. Argentina also has a massive carbon footprint, among other countries...

Lesser research into nuclear energy perhaps? The overall increased authoritarianism stifling creative thought and research, thereby inhibiting technological development without immediate military applications? Racism and sexism being a presumably more dominant ideology holding back the talents of women? For instance, I very much doubt that this USA would have allowed the talents of Grace Murray Hopper to flourish, which would mean that computing would be held back. And so on

There was lesser research into it overall, and while nuclear weapons are, in fact, a thing that is commonly understood, they are not considered to be practical. There is also nuclear energy technology, its just not a widespread energy source, though there is a lot of research into it presently to see if it could be deployed on a massive scale.

Why do federal Liberals run only in some provinces? How could they aim at becoming official opposition by not running everywhere? To which of the main parties are they closer and are more likely to support in case of a hung parliament?
How different is the proportion between the various ethnicities and how differently are they distributed in North America ITTL? How did emigration from Europe differ ITTL?

The Liberals do not run in every province simply from a standpoint of being unable to find enough quality candidates to run everywhere, as well as their platform not being anything remotely close to the priorities of rural voters. They could easily be swayed to support either party, but theu are firmly non-socialist.

I can only assume that they don't bother running in places they aren't even remotely competitive in. Either that, or they can't afford to run more candidates.

Both of these are correct.

The work in the portrait is quite literally mind blowing. I have to congratulate you on that work.

Thank you!

Has Chairman Hogan proclaimed himself Atheling of the Manifest Destiny Party yet?

Manifest Destiny is not a primary driver of American thought, as the west remains (largely) uncolonised outside of several cities and mining localities.

I assume this is the same William T. Sherman I'm familiar with from his service in the US military OTL?

The same.

Absolutely bloody glorious.
Again, I love how you make it very clear that the Empire didn't suddenly become a benevolent enterprise because handwavium, but with things like the Wenatchee massacre you show the horrors of Imperial ambition. I would guess that Sherman would be one figure subject to significant portion of historical reassessment. Older generations might look to him as a great leader and war hero but the matter of his brutality might prompt questioning of his legacy. Very cool!

If the Empire ever undergoes a critical assessment, Sherman would be one of the first ones that would have a much more critical look taken at him. For now he remains a highly celebrated figure in both New England, and the Empire as a whole.

It is interesting to observe that Sherman's honorific is included in the name of the page, which is, of course, not the case in our TL's Wikipedia. Does this Wikipedia have a different approach to honorifics, and if so, why? Also, is there any specific reason why Sherman did not die in 1891 as in our TL, but lived for another 13 years?

And by the way, nice work. Congratulations!

Sherman died from pneumonia in reality - a disese he never contracted in this timeline.

Thank you!

Sounds like Canada had its own version of the Trail of Tears- whereabouts is the First Nations Reserve? On the subject of First Nations, Sherman's OTL middle name is conspicuously absent- what happened with Tecumseh in this timeline?

Canada's history is a long one.... One many horrific massacres, resettlements, and "civilising missions." I shall be sure to touch on the events that resulted in the creation of modern Canada.

Having been born in New England, Sherman's parents were not fascinated by the tales of Tecumseh, so Sherman's name was different, owing to the different factors.

Perhaps the Northwest Territory? I think more horrifying is the possibility that they weren't reserved anywhere, and instead wholesale slaughtered.

There are several territories set aside for the First Nations, but their prospects are not great.

It's probably just what Canada did in OTL but on as larger scale and with more whites involved since there's more settler's here. Without 1812 Tecumseh is probably a nobody here so that might explain it, that or just butterflies.

Tecumseh himself still existed, and I believe at some point I will be able to write about it.

I wonder what happened to Calvin Coolidge ITTL?

He will make an appearance.

Would there be periodic updates to American Standard English if the pronunciation of a word or group of words were to shift and change throughout the country?

This would, in fact, happen.

Why does "American" sound so much like f--ed up Dutch? This interests me because most of New Netherland looks like it would be in New England.
I thought its just 4-Year-Old English.
Is there any coherent phonetic guide to American? If not, I could ome up with one.
How did American English get fucked up that badly? It looks as bad as Caribbean Pidgin
When did the US switch to the new orthography?
I think that the resemblance to Dutch is purely coincidental. Of course, depending on how far back the US/South Africa friendship goes, that may have some influence too.
I think ASE is just phonetic rather than Dutch/German influence or anything.
To be clear here, "American Simplified English" isn't the official name- that's the name a snobbish Brit on the internet would give it. It's normally just called "American."
No, a snobby Brit would call it "American so-called English".

"American Simplified English" would be its official name in Britain and the Empire.
@CosmicAsh, did the Standard American English diverge from Imperial British English through purging of such Anglo-Norman loanwords where Webster was actually born in New England instead of the United States?

Are there any varieties of American language? Due to low immigration sometimes, I don't think that the immigrant language loanwords wouldn't pass on to American English.

It was a phonetic reform that occured in the mid 19th century to promote literacy and to ensure that non-English speakers (Spanish speakers in the newly acquired American Caribbean) could learn the language more easily. It has no relation to Dutch, German, or any other language, and it was a wholly American invention. It is generally regarded as being a separate language, called "American." Informally, Imperial citizens would call it Simplified English, but in formal settings it would still be American.

Manhattan at least is American, though you are right I’d guess the majority of the population of New Netherlands is in the current New England. So Dutch influences of New England English would make sense. Unless for some reason ITTL New Netherland was more westerly focused and actually settled the Delaware valley?

There are no changes with the settlement of New Netherland.

Actually, @CosmicAsh, two other points:

Whatever became of Andrew Cuomo (or, should I say, Andru Kwomo?) ITTL? Is he on the Privy Council? Does he rule New York State from Poughkeepsie (any particular reason you chose it for the capital, BTW?)

At approximately what point did the USA transition to American English?

Andrew Cuomo is the leader of the Ontario United Social Party. See above for the transition to the new writing system.

I wouldn't be too sure, there's definitely a few "Larri Hogan" spellings floating around.

Last names are kept the same, but given names follow the new system, as it would be what many Americans are used to. Some last names may have been changed, but that's just a personal preference.

Cripes, France's population is significantly bigger ITTL.

If France is the sixth largest economy, and Britain, Russia and Japan occupy the top three positions (not necessarily in that order), who are the fourth and fifth largest?

Here are nominal GDPs of the globe, in descending order.

XmN2fNW.png


Stupendous as always, @CosmicAsh. I am inspired and generally bowled over by your ability to not only turn out great lore, but great graphics.
Now for some questions:

Why were the peace terms imposed on France comparatively more lenient? Did Napoleon I accept an alt-Frankfurt proposal ITTL? If so, what factors led him to do this as opposed to the events of our world?

Given that Napoleon II was six years old in 1817, who was the 'power behind the throne' during the early part of his reign? Talleyrand? One or more of the Marshals?

Finally, how are the rest of Europe's relations with France in 2021 and vice versa? Is the French claim to its Rhine borders something official but not really pressing in day-to-day diplomacy, or is it a major sticking point in Paris' relations with Prussia, etc? Given that a Rhine frontier would remove Flanders and Alsatia from the map, as well as halving the Netherlands and taking a fair bit from Prussia, are these countries generally anti-French in their outlook?

I eagerly await more from what's fast becoming my favourite TL on this site.

Thank you!

- Napoleon I did accept a series of proposals to end the war, mostly because the Coalition was stronger, and his defeat was greater. He was convinced by several Marshals, as well as the political leadership that accepting it did not mean defeat, instead it meant time, something Napoleon I desperetly needed. While he was doing this, there were political machinations to try and ensure Napoleon I could be controlled, as he got older and seemed to lose more control. When he went on yet another campaign, there was already put in motion a plan to stop him in France, fully engineered by Tallyrand, who the Coalition was more than willing to work with.
- Tallyrand ended up controlling France, through Napoleon II, until his death. At that time, Napoleon II had long been groomed to take a hands off approach, and did not get involved in political affairs, which is mostly why the country flourished during this period.
- France is a full member of the general world community. It does claim those borders, but it would be the same as say, West Germany still claiming land in Poland and the USSR after the war. Not particularly serious.

How come the Coalition didn't try to restore the Bourbons after defeating Napoleon?

They were not powerful enough to do so, and believed they could work with those opposed to Napoleon I in France.

I am curious to find out how integrated America is into the global economy. The closed borders in the west and national supremacist rhetoric suggests a high degree of isolation, but the the 'tri-city' region still exists, and America still possesses both the Great Lakes and the mighty Mississippi, so I expect much commercial activity with the rest of the Atlantic.

It's not. There is limited trade with the outside world, mostly just what they can manage to sell off to Europe and Africa. The country remains highly, highly isolated, and only has limited trade and interaction outside of its borders. Part of Hamiltonian Thought is for isolation, and economic security.

Great article! I have many questions.

  • What is the Dupont affair?
  • What are the natural French borders? Do they extend to the Rhine?
  • Which of the presidents hold the most power? Or do they share roughly equal amounts of power
  • What happened to the French overseas territories? I assume they got taken over by foreign powers during the Great Continental War. Either way, how did they still hold on to St. Pierre and Miquelon?
  • With two IRL Green politicians holding prominent political posts in France, I'm assuming that the Greens constitute a significant portion of the left across the world? Or is environmentalism bipartisan?
  • Also, I'm not sure if it's an error or maybe I'm blind, but in the world map, it looks like there's an island north of Flevoland. Do the Dutch polderize the Markermeer too?

- I shall go into the Dupont affair at some point.
- France's natural borders are the ones it claimed after 1814.
- It's a parliamentary republic, so the President of the Government is analagous to a Prime Minister.
- All French overseas territories were occupied by the British. Saint Pierre and Miquelon were retained by the French due to their low economic value, and the fact the British actually never occupied it during the war.
- Environmentalism is a bipartisan issue.
- The Dutch indeed, have done more poldering.

Yes they do, they're practically modern French borders plus the lands west of the Rhine.

Yes, plus Flanders in many cases.
 
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You mentioned that Bengal was the epicenter of a large-scale war between the Empire and the Indian Union in the 70s and early 80s, so how was Bengal not only able to recover so quickly but also become one of the largest economies in just a few decades as well. Is Bengal's current standard of life similar to OTL or is the average person significantly better off?
 
If the Empire ever undergoes a critical assessment, Sherman would be one of the first ones that would have a much more critical look taken at him. For now he remains a highly celebrated figure in both New England, and the Empire as a whole.
There is, I'll say it again, something so refreshing about an author of an M+G timeline on this forum actually understanding how dangerous and destructive imperialism is. Additionally, the idea that historical revisionism of empires only comes after they collapse is... honestly kinda chilling, even if it was unintentional. Makes all the idol-worshipping of Churchill by older Britons make sense.
 
I was looking over the political world map and the Superior Map of NA, and I was wondering if the Panama, Suez, and Kiel Canals were constructed ITTL?
 
With the US reliant on heavy industry (Standard Oil and National Steel) I imagine that there's a lot of heavy pollutants coming out of the river states and being carried into New England by the jet stream. Do they have an ongoing dispute regarding transient air pollution causing damage?
 
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