Might have misunderstood you here, but his previous threads have had people show that his scenarios just aren't going to work, if that's what you were asking.
IDK where and when the troll's obsession with Dunkirk came (but capturing the force was definitely possible if the Germans were faster), but I know he seems inspired by World Scenariania's Axis Hegemony.
Yep. I'm seeing the lore of one scenario which basically says this:
Third crack at Axis hegemony this month. Assume Dunkirk Disaster. Britain and France seek armistice together in June, thinking they would get better deal from Germany if they negotiate as partners. Germany agrees to withdraw from northern France and Netherlands. Germany keeps troops in Belgium as security. In exchange, the French and Dutch demilitarize and pay an indemnity. Germany gets 90% of French and Dutch Fleets, and a variety of strategic colonies - Senegal, Madagascar, Dutch East Indies., Belgian Congo. Italy takes Tunisia and Syria and Japan takes French Indochina. The Axis alliance contains a not so secret clause promising aid in case of attack by third party.
The Axis proceeds to fortify their new colonies for the next two years and then in 1942 Germany launches Barbarossa against the Soviet Union. The Brits stay neutral in the conflict because the Brits are afraid of Italian and Japanese reaction if Britain attacks their German ally. Japan wouldn't allow the Brits to take the new German East Indies and the Suez would be vulnerable to a two pronged assault from Italian Syria and Libya.
Basically, I felt that Japan would be angry at German presence on Asia. Also, he didn't count that Belgium is on exile in the Belgian Congo.
A Dunkirk disaster must lead to German victory. Suppose a no halt order, 300k troops surrender in the Flanders pocket on June 3, 1940 after being mowed down on the beaches by Junkers for several days. Spain joins the war expecting Britain to make a quick peace. Fearing that the invincible German Wehrmacht will turn to the east the Soviets quickly request talks in late June for deepening the Nazi Soviet alliance and dismantling the effete British Empire. After several weeks of negotiations in July the Soviets agree to invade Persian Gulf, and Hitler agrees to keep troops out of Finland and pressure Turkey to accept Soviet warships through the Bosporus.
A Soviet and Italian pincer attack on the Middle East wipes out the British presence in the area. The Japanese begin taking out the British East Indies in December as the Soviets are landing paratroopers in Oman. The Japanese think that the all powerful Axis alliance (Germans, Italians, Spanish, and Soviets) will protect them so they don't fear US intervention. The Brits then seek an armistice in May 1941 after a critical portions of their empire have been taken off the map and the Germans are poised to launch the invasion deathblow to the British.
Here, the troll decided to include the Spanish and Soviets in the Axis (why is the latter exactly impossible?). Also, for some reason Japan is confident about the Axis for some reason even though the US outnumbers them absurdly. WTF? Also note the words I put in Bold.
Could you tell me what is
effete?
Assume a no halt order on May 24 1940 and a disaster of epic proportions,. Guderian captures Dunkirk on May 25 and Gort surrenders all his men in Flanders on May 28. Germany advances Fall Rot a few days forward to June 1. Mussolini smells blood in the water and declares war on France and Britain earlier than expected on June 1. Reynaud resigns and France signs on armistice on June 10 as the Germans are entering Paris. Franco thinks the the British have no army left and declares war on Britain on June 16 to have standing for the recovery of Gibraltar.
Britain doesn't surrender and Germany sends forces into Spain to take Gibraltar in July. Italo Balbo stays alive and invades Egypt in July at the same time . Aggressive pursuit of the Mediterranean strategy by the Axis makes the Mediterranean an Axis lake, which puts the Axis in a good position to take the Middle East and attack the Soviet Union from the Caucasus in 1941.
So here Franco just goes head-on against the Allies while Italy is somewhat competent. And I think that they still took Yugoslavia (or Yugoslavia joined the Axis) and Greece down because he says that the Mediterranean is an Axis lake, and for some reason this leads to the USSR being attacked from the Caucasus, even though it's not in the Mediterranean.
This is a retread of a previous post I made about an earlier German invasion of the Soviet Union but this time with a disaster at Dunkirk.
If Germany had captured a large amount of British and French at Dunkirk in May 1940 this would have brought about an armistice with France a few weeks earlier and made the British impotent in terms of launching attacks on the Western Front. With its western flank secured Germany could have immediately pivoted in June 1940 toward the Soviets and successfully invaded the Soviet Union in August 1940.
In otl Hitler was dissuaded from invading the Soviet Union in 1940 by Keitl because of the narrow window from late July in which to concentrate forces in the east and complete a successful invasion by the onset of the Russian winter.
Since June 1940 Stalin had ordered the Soviet economy and general staff to work overtime preparing for war. The Soviets were much weaker in 1940 than in 1941 and were still recovering from purges and in the middle of reforming their army after the Finnish debacle. The more the Germans delay the attack the better prepared the Soviets are.
The invasion would have launched at the beginning of August 1940 to allow time to concentrate forces in the east. The German General staff believed that the Soviet army would collapse within 10 weeks, which was before the mud season. Although the Soviets wouldn't have collapsed in 1940, they would have been in a weaker position in 1941 than in 1942. The Soviets don't have mass production of the T-34 in place by 1941. Germany would have mobilized for war in Autumn 1940 after Germany realized the Soviets were not the weaklings they anticipated. If German campaigning had been successful enough, by July 1941 the Japanese may have also been induced to strike north against the Soviets, instead of south, to deal the final death blow.
Other add on benefits may have been a German armored force in North Africa , which would have avoided the Italian collapse in December 1940. Mussolini would have been more likely to accept the offer of a German armored division in North Africa in September 1940 if Mussolini believed the armored force was in reciprocation for Italian contributions to the Eastern Front. Germany had an incentive to tie down British forces in North Africa to prevent them from being used in other theaters. With Italian forces tied up on Eastern Front in 1940, Mussolini may have also decided to delay war with Greece. One German armored division probably would have crushed the British forces defending Egypt in December 1940.
Here the troll supposes that Vichy France is created earlier due to the loss of troops at Dunkirk, but later he supposes Germany's western flank is secured. Another thing is that the Soviets are attacked in 1940, which while the USSR was much weaker at 1940, realistically, this would go as a longer OTL Eastern Front. Also, it supposes that Italy accepts the Afrika Korps earlier and later delay its war with Greece via Albania. And also a victory in North Africa? And also this is the origin of Japan feeling confident of the US not entering WW2 at all.
Stomp that dead horse. Dunkirk disaster. Spain joins Axis in June. Balbo reaches El Alamein in early September. Germany agrees to send reinforcement to Balbo, who has lost most of his vehicles trying to reach El Alamein. Japanese Imperial Liaison conference says strike now. Japan occupies all of Indochina in late September and assembles forces for East Indie takeover.
The Axis renews the Egyptian offensive in December when the Japanese carrier fleets starts obliterating the RN. The RN abandons the Mediterranean in February and the Mediterranean becomes an Axis lake.
In May 41 Iraq expels the British from its territory and takes Kuwait. Sensing imminent British collapse Iran and Afghanistan join the Axis as well. The Iranians seize British oil assets and Afghans request German military assistance for taking the Northwest Frontier of India. Stalin has a nervous breakdown and regrets he didn't join the Axis. The Japanese take Madagascar and Ceylon and the Brits declare an Armistice with the Axis in December 41 after ceding control of the Indian ocean to the Japanese.
Soviets are totally surrounded by the Axis alliance in 1942 and the Axis wall comes crashing in when Germany crosses the Soviet border in May.
From this thread. The troll is nuts here. He in the first paragraph incorporates all ideas of previous thread incredibly compacted. Although he adds Iraq, Afghanistan, and Iran in the Axis ('cause real-life affiliations of the pro-Axis Iraqi governmant and Iran). Why Iraq and Iran lasting longer doesn't work exactly? And this goes stranger as they invade the USSR ¡
IN 1942!, supposing here that an invasion of the largest country in the world in that time would be the same as OTL when done 1 year later.
In summary, the troll needs to compact his ideas into 1 timeline, and also do another one for the Soviets joining the Axis. Why bother spamming with many threads? He also fails to explain the US's role in all of this, talks very little about Vichy France and Japan, and doesn't even make research of some other things.
