Australia has the longest stretch of straight rail line in the world - some 487km. We have roads so long that they put kinks in them so that the drivers don't fall asleep at the wheel while driving them:
The Forge of Weyland
- Thread starter Astrodragon
- Start date
There was some interviews, some years ago, of several German POWs who were guests of the Canadian goverment. They had some fairly positive comments. The isolation or being in the middle of nowhere is a given, but there were a lot of opportunities for degrees, music etc. They kept them busy. I have heard of stories that in the Rockies, the prisoners could sign out if they wanted to go for a hike, it would be a group, and were given a loaded rifle for protection.
Do they use any of these roads for emergency airstrips? In the more remote areas of Canada they do. For clarity, I meant to fly someone to a medical facility.Australia has the longest stretch of straight rail line in the world - some 487km. We have roads so long that they put kinks in them so that the drivers don't fall asleep at the wheel while driving them:
Unlucky really. Many former Italian POWs moved to Australia after the war. Many of the former POWs and those they lived and interacted with were happy about the experience. Certainly much better than how Allied prisoners were treated by the Japanese, for example.
No, not a source of shame. Coming from someone descended by free settlers - including a soldier, convicts, Aboriginal people, and later arrivals.
16 May part 7
16th May 1940 (Part 7)
General Giraude's original plan, to dig in advance of the advancing panzers and ambush them, had been overtaken by events when his divisions got to Trelon on the evening of the 15th. Reports from his reconnaissance screen indicated that the Germans had made much better progress than expected after crossing the Meuse, and the leading echelons were already passed Moncornet. In addition another panzer thrust seemed to be developing close to him, he had received reports of German tanks at Hirson. The attentions paid to his units by the Luftwaffe hadn't helped the speed of his advance, and he assumed that with their aerial observation the Germans knew approximately where he was.
The delays had allowed 2DCR and 1st North African division to attach themselves to his force, and with the addition firepower of the DCR he and his staff had altered the plan. They would pause overnight and get themselves organised and ready, while allowing the panzer spearhead to continue west. At 10am they would advance south-east, cutting the rear elements of the panzer forces and then moving to form a blocking line. As he had little information on what forces would be following up the panzers, he sent part of his force to block any new German advance.
The 25th Motorised infantry division would advance and hold across the road from Nouzonville, which he thought would be the most likely axis of advance. This was risky, as it was possible the Germans might take a different route and outflank him, but the heavy fighting south and west of Sedan made him think that any German forces positioned north of there would either become involved in the fighting, or be held ready to join it. Reports indicated the 61st Division was retiring from its position near Fumay to Rocroi, and this division was ordered to cover any approach from this direction. Behind these two infantry formations he kept 1 DLM as his mobile reserve.
To the west, he deployed the 9th motorised to the south and the less mobile 1st NA infantry divisions on an arc between Anor and Chaumont. Between them the heavy 2DCR armoured division would dig in south of Rumigny, and be ready to deal with the panzers if they headed back west, also being available to detach units to help the infantry divisions at need. He was informed that the 4 DCR would be in a position to attack from the south tomorrow, and that would hopefully allow him to cut off the panzers.
He fully expected to have to fight through the flank guards of the panzer formations, but felt that he had sufficient force to do so. If the panzers attacked him from the west, things would become much more difficult. He knew there were other panzer units to the north of his line, and he just had to have faith that IV Corps could handle them. Ideally they would then be in a position to come to his assistance, but he couldn't depend on that. His final card was 1DCR, which had been held north of Ermeton. This unit had orders to stop any breakout over the Meuse from the Yvoir-Dinant area.
He realised that a lot of this plan depended on luck, and how strong the Panzer units flank guard was, but the alternative was to let the Germans continue their advance. While that might make it easier to cut off the advancing spearhead, it would also allow the German forces at the Meuse to reorganised and come straight at him, and he did not feel his force had sufficient strength to stop them. Even if his troops couldn't stop the panzers and the following forces, he hoped that they could buy enough time for more French reinforcements to arrive and stabilise the front.
While there were meetings of light tanks and armoured cars early in the morning, the first substantial encounter with the enemy was at around 12am, when units of the 9th, supported by the 5th Cuirassiers Regiment from 2DCR encountered the rear echelon of 8th Panzer division south of the Saint-Michel forest. For once the French tanks had easy targets, and the support units scattered frantically as the French units gleefully set upon them. In half an hour the only German vehicles remaining were burning, and the men had either fled into the countryside or were prisoners.
Gathering themselves together again, the tanks and infantry kept heading south. At around 2am they reached Liart, and again ran into German trucks heading west along the D978 from the east. This time the support troops belonged to the 6th Panzer division, and were equally unprepared to run into the aggressively handled French tanks. What was worrying General Giraud was just how many panzer divisions he was trying to cut off. He had now run into the tails of two, and his admittedly limited information indicated at least two more were driving west from Montcornet at this very moment. This was rather more than he had anticipated having to cut off!
Nevertheless, 9th Division kept on until south of Liart, where they prepared to dig in, the tanks of 2DCR taking up a position further north and east to serve as his reserve. He was still worried about an attack from the south - if 4DCR couldn't advance, it was quite possible the panzers divisions could come back and attack him from the south, his weakest point. The 1 DLM could only cover that if they weren't engaged by forces coming west from Montherme, he didn't think he had enough force to stop attacks from both directions. If this did happen, he intended to withdraw north and join up with IV Corp, creating a force which would hopefully still be strong enough that the Germans would have to pause and defeat it before advancing again, an action which he hoped would allow the French army more time to bring up other divisions. These were on their way, but what was needed right now was time and a way of delaying the panzers.
His main problem now was preparing his positions, and the increasing attention of the Luftwaffe was starting to be troubling. It was fortunate his units hadn't had a long way to travel, or met serious opposition, as they had been disrupted by attacks throughout the afternoon. Fortunately for him most of the Luftwaffe support in this area seemed to be in the area of Sedan, but his troops would have to dig in well overnight. He was fortunate that the bulk of 7th Army was a high quality unit, who were more able to carry on even under air attack that some of the lower-quality divisions. While they would not have the benefit of prepared fortifications, they knew what was coming, and were digging in assiduously.
On the positive side, he had been pleasantly surprised by the lack of any true flank protection to the panzer divisions' rear elements. He had expected to have to break through these, but it would seem either the real flank guard was further forward, or had been held up. While the opposition had been light and uncoordinated, it had raised the morale of his men to defeat them, and he hoped that would encourage them through the next couple of days. His was the last mobile reserve available anywhere near the German breakthrough, if they failed there was little to stop the panzers tearing through France to Paris and beyond. His last orders that night were for the officers to explain this to the men, and to also inform them that Sedan was once again under French control (not entirely true, but near enough to raise his troops morale). Tomorrow would likely be a busy day.
General Giraude's original plan, to dig in advance of the advancing panzers and ambush them, had been overtaken by events when his divisions got to Trelon on the evening of the 15th. Reports from his reconnaissance screen indicated that the Germans had made much better progress than expected after crossing the Meuse, and the leading echelons were already passed Moncornet. In addition another panzer thrust seemed to be developing close to him, he had received reports of German tanks at Hirson. The attentions paid to his units by the Luftwaffe hadn't helped the speed of his advance, and he assumed that with their aerial observation the Germans knew approximately where he was.
The delays had allowed 2DCR and 1st North African division to attach themselves to his force, and with the addition firepower of the DCR he and his staff had altered the plan. They would pause overnight and get themselves organised and ready, while allowing the panzer spearhead to continue west. At 10am they would advance south-east, cutting the rear elements of the panzer forces and then moving to form a blocking line. As he had little information on what forces would be following up the panzers, he sent part of his force to block any new German advance.
The 25th Motorised infantry division would advance and hold across the road from Nouzonville, which he thought would be the most likely axis of advance. This was risky, as it was possible the Germans might take a different route and outflank him, but the heavy fighting south and west of Sedan made him think that any German forces positioned north of there would either become involved in the fighting, or be held ready to join it. Reports indicated the 61st Division was retiring from its position near Fumay to Rocroi, and this division was ordered to cover any approach from this direction. Behind these two infantry formations he kept 1 DLM as his mobile reserve.
To the west, he deployed the 9th motorised to the south and the less mobile 1st NA infantry divisions on an arc between Anor and Chaumont. Between them the heavy 2DCR armoured division would dig in south of Rumigny, and be ready to deal with the panzers if they headed back west, also being available to detach units to help the infantry divisions at need. He was informed that the 4 DCR would be in a position to attack from the south tomorrow, and that would hopefully allow him to cut off the panzers.
He fully expected to have to fight through the flank guards of the panzer formations, but felt that he had sufficient force to do so. If the panzers attacked him from the west, things would become much more difficult. He knew there were other panzer units to the north of his line, and he just had to have faith that IV Corps could handle them. Ideally they would then be in a position to come to his assistance, but he couldn't depend on that. His final card was 1DCR, which had been held north of Ermeton. This unit had orders to stop any breakout over the Meuse from the Yvoir-Dinant area.
He realised that a lot of this plan depended on luck, and how strong the Panzer units flank guard was, but the alternative was to let the Germans continue their advance. While that might make it easier to cut off the advancing spearhead, it would also allow the German forces at the Meuse to reorganised and come straight at him, and he did not feel his force had sufficient strength to stop them. Even if his troops couldn't stop the panzers and the following forces, he hoped that they could buy enough time for more French reinforcements to arrive and stabilise the front.
While there were meetings of light tanks and armoured cars early in the morning, the first substantial encounter with the enemy was at around 12am, when units of the 9th, supported by the 5th Cuirassiers Regiment from 2DCR encountered the rear echelon of 8th Panzer division south of the Saint-Michel forest. For once the French tanks had easy targets, and the support units scattered frantically as the French units gleefully set upon them. In half an hour the only German vehicles remaining were burning, and the men had either fled into the countryside or were prisoners.
Gathering themselves together again, the tanks and infantry kept heading south. At around 2am they reached Liart, and again ran into German trucks heading west along the D978 from the east. This time the support troops belonged to the 6th Panzer division, and were equally unprepared to run into the aggressively handled French tanks. What was worrying General Giraud was just how many panzer divisions he was trying to cut off. He had now run into the tails of two, and his admittedly limited information indicated at least two more were driving west from Montcornet at this very moment. This was rather more than he had anticipated having to cut off!
Nevertheless, 9th Division kept on until south of Liart, where they prepared to dig in, the tanks of 2DCR taking up a position further north and east to serve as his reserve. He was still worried about an attack from the south - if 4DCR couldn't advance, it was quite possible the panzers divisions could come back and attack him from the south, his weakest point. The 1 DLM could only cover that if they weren't engaged by forces coming west from Montherme, he didn't think he had enough force to stop attacks from both directions. If this did happen, he intended to withdraw north and join up with IV Corp, creating a force which would hopefully still be strong enough that the Germans would have to pause and defeat it before advancing again, an action which he hoped would allow the French army more time to bring up other divisions. These were on their way, but what was needed right now was time and a way of delaying the panzers.
His main problem now was preparing his positions, and the increasing attention of the Luftwaffe was starting to be troubling. It was fortunate his units hadn't had a long way to travel, or met serious opposition, as they had been disrupted by attacks throughout the afternoon. Fortunately for him most of the Luftwaffe support in this area seemed to be in the area of Sedan, but his troops would have to dig in well overnight. He was fortunate that the bulk of 7th Army was a high quality unit, who were more able to carry on even under air attack that some of the lower-quality divisions. While they would not have the benefit of prepared fortifications, they knew what was coming, and were digging in assiduously.
On the positive side, he had been pleasantly surprised by the lack of any true flank protection to the panzer divisions' rear elements. He had expected to have to break through these, but it would seem either the real flank guard was further forward, or had been held up. While the opposition had been light and uncoordinated, it had raised the morale of his men to defeat them, and he hoped that would encourage them through the next couple of days. His was the last mobile reserve available anywhere near the German breakthrough, if they failed there was little to stop the panzers tearing through France to Paris and beyond. His last orders that night were for the officers to explain this to the men, and to also inform them that Sedan was once again under French control (not entirely true, but near enough to raise his troops morale). Tomorrow would likely be a busy day.
Much as I am enjoying this, I have to admit it would really be handy to see maps because I am confused by relative locations.
Since I am that kind of guy I will say that technically Canada is about 30% bigger. 😉
Not that is makes a ton of difference to, already off-topic, discussion we are having.
Ouch, that flank attack puts a big spanner into the German plans, my guess is that the German Panzer division can do only very little. Hold in place and wait till the follow on forces dislodge the french on their main supply route or turn around and clear the french themself but after that they are out of fuel/ammo after that and can't fend off an other couter attack
So
1 Pz division has been roughly handled by the British and another by the French at Sedan
2 Pz divisions have lost their logistical tails - basically down to the Ammo in the ready racks and fuel in the tanks with their spares burned up
Even for the Germans the temptation might be to press on while they work out what is happening behind them - and every mile they go forward is irreplaceable fuel used up. If they try and clear their rear area but are short of fuel going head on against Char B's without being able to try and out flank them is not a winning option.
Pierre Armand Gaston Billotte (8 March 1906 – 29 June 1992) may out do his OTL performance here.
PS
Even if the Germans win in France what are they going to use to invade Russia?
1 Pz division has been roughly handled by the British and another by the French at Sedan
2 Pz divisions have lost their logistical tails - basically down to the Ammo in the ready racks and fuel in the tanks with their spares burned up
Even for the Germans the temptation might be to press on while they work out what is happening behind them - and every mile they go forward is irreplaceable fuel used up. If they try and clear their rear area but are short of fuel going head on against Char B's without being able to try and out flank them is not a winning option.
Pierre Armand Gaston Billotte (8 March 1906 – 29 June 1992) may out do his OTL performance here.
PS
Even if the Germans win in France what are they going to use to invade Russia?
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Derek Pullem
Donor
So that's at least four of the six breakthrough divisions with broken supply trains. The Germans need to get their infantry forward or those panzer divisions are going to be left high and dry.
EDIT - basically with Sedan and Montherme interdicted the only open road west is through Dinant and that isn't helpful for the panzers.
EDIT - basically with Sedan and Montherme interdicted the only open road west is through Dinant and that isn't helpful for the panzers.
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The year before last, the RAAF test landed a C-27 on the Nullabor Plain highway. Some interesting photos floating around. It was done to test the highway's ability to survive the experience and the ability to evacuate people in case of accident/bushfire/etc.
Yes
Is there a seventh Panzer Division lurking somewhere? IIRC the Germans had ten of them for the attack on western Europe. One used in the Netherlands, two in the "matador's cloak" invasion of Belgium. So seven for the Ardennes Offensive.
The other issue is whether the Motorised Infantry Divisions (four, five?) have sufficient combat power, with Luftwaffe support, to break through the blocking forces. I suspect not, but could they hold open a corridor back to Dinant?
Both the Allies and the Germans have big (but different) problems.
Giraud knows what he needs to do, but really doesn't have the force he needs to do it. He's going to try anyway - the alternative is to let the panzers run free - but its a very hard task. He has to deal with 1,2,6 and 8 panzer, and these are the four strongest panzer divisions. A DCR really isn't up to this, even dug in and ready.
The Panzers really want to keep driving on west, but there is this little issue of supplies. Being cut fairly well back implies that they still have a fair bit of their tail, but nothing is coming forward until those French tanks are out of the way. Turning a division around isn't something you do in a few hours.
The Allies need to block the German logistics. They are off to a good start - nothings coming through Sedan - but they need to cut at least one more of the two remaining routes. If they can do that, the resulting logistics bottleneck will buy them the time they are so desperate for. Obviously the Germans want to stop this, and ideally reopen another supply route.
Giraud knows what he needs to do, but really doesn't have the force he needs to do it. He's going to try anyway - the alternative is to let the panzers run free - but its a very hard task. He has to deal with 1,2,6 and 8 panzer, and these are the four strongest panzer divisions. A DCR really isn't up to this, even dug in and ready.
The Panzers really want to keep driving on west, but there is this little issue of supplies. Being cut fairly well back implies that they still have a fair bit of their tail, but nothing is coming forward until those French tanks are out of the way. Turning a division around isn't something you do in a few hours.
The Allies need to block the German logistics. They are off to a good start - nothings coming through Sedan - but they need to cut at least one more of the two remaining routes. If they can do that, the resulting logistics bottleneck will buy them the time they are so desperate for. Obviously the Germans want to stop this, and ideally reopen another supply route.
9 pz is heading around Antwerp
2 and 3 pz are around Gembloux
10 pz is recovering from the Sedan battle
5 pz is trying to reform after being mauled by 1AD
7 pz is south of 1AD, and is getting ready to attack them.
the breakthrough is 1,2,6 and 8 pz divisions.
The seventh panzer division is ... the 7th. Rommel is dashing ahead while the 5th was mauled.