The Revenge of the Crown : An Alternate 1812 and Beyond.

[Nenshou Yuuki]

Yeah, Canada doesn't need one since they are under the domain of the British Empire.

Exactly, Louisiana is an independent nation, BNA is a collection of colonies under the control of the British monarch

Fair enough. Then why is Canada a Dominion when they could easily be a Kingdom?

OTL, to not piss of the Americans.
TTL, dunno, could be the British simply didn't want to raise a colony to equal status of the homeland, maybe Canada didn't want to be a kingdom.

 

[pjmidd]

Fair enough. Then why is Canada a Dominion when they could easily be a Kingdom?

Its to do with distance. A kingdom , Scotland/Ireland , is near enough to London to be ruled directly by the king ( nominally , via his government in reality ) . A dominion is far enough away it needs an indirect approach. So a steward ( Governor-General ) does the day to day stuff acting as a proxy for the King with a local assembly proxying Westminster ( Westminster/the KIng just giving a general framework , the local assembly/Governor-General filling in the detail) . Only some reserved areas of policy are done by Westminster/the King only apart from exceptional matters considered so important/contentious they are kicked upstairs.

 

[Rivercat893]

Its to do with distance. A kingdom , Scotland/Ireland , is near enough to London to be ruled directly by the king ( nominally , via his government in reality ) . A dominion is far enough away it needs an indirect approach. So a steward ( Governor-General ) does the day to day stuff acting as a proxy for the King with a local assembly proxying Westminster ( Westminster/the KIng just giving a general framework , the local assembly/Governor-General filling in the detail) . Only some reserved areas of policy are done by Westminster/the King only apart from exceptional matters considered so important/contentious they are kicked upstairs.

Exactly.

 

[Northstar]

Any chance of a country box about Mexico?

Remember that any Wikibox from TTL's 2020 means that Sārthākā is locked in to that outcome and removes his ability to add last minute changes to the TL he might feel are needed. I also enjoy the Wikiboxes, but don't want too many as I see them as spoilers.

Northstar

 

[Eadspel]

OTL, to not piss of the Americans.
TTL, dunno, could be the British simply didn't want to raise a colony to equal status of the homeland, maybe Canada didn't want to be a kingdom.

Maybe ITTL Canada doesn't confederate without the US threat, so the Dominion of Canada is just made up of the Province of Canada, which was decided to be too small to be a kingdom?

 

[sarahz]

Fair enough. Then why is Canada a Dominion when they could easily be a Kingdom?

OTL piublic relations (is US sentiment)

 

[Sarthak]

Chapter 27: The Yucatan Crisis

***

“The Yucatan Peninsula. The home to the Maya People. Once so spread out, ruling the much of Modern Mexico, the Maya people had been diminished by centuries of Spanish encroachment and assimilation programs. In the War of Mexican Independence, the Mayans had sided with the Mexicans, hopeful that the new government would be willing to give the Mayans their autonomy and leave them alone in all things other than military and foreign policy. Truth be told, many Mayans did not even consider themselves Mexicans when the Empire of Mexico had been proclaimed. They fought for their own benefit. Like all the Criollos who had fought for their own benefit in the Independence War, the Mayans had fought for their own benefit as well.

Distribution of the Mayan People in the Mexican Empire. ​

The indigenous Mayans had been religiously, culturally and physically subdued by the Spaniards, and were often at the end of the social pecking order of New Spain, even though they made up a majority of the population in many areas in New Spain. Many Mayans, believed that once they managed to gain independence from Spain, the Mexicans would allow the Mayans their rights and freedoms as well, however this was a dashed hope. The Mexicans were perfectly fine with the Creole system that placed the Mixed Race, and the European Race at the top in the social order of hierarchy in the country. Emperor Jose I was ambiguous to the natives, though h was liked by the Zapotec and Aztec Amerindians, who had more to gain from his industrialization, his popularity in the Yucatan region was, neutral at best and apathetic at worst. The Catholic Church which was powerful in Mexico, and controlled many nobles of the realm, also played a huge role in the dissent among the Mayas, as the church continued their evangelization attempts at them and tried to rob the Mayans of their indigenous culture and folk traditions. The Church’s alliance with Spain had merely moved to Mexico.

A Mayan newspaper showing the relative poverty of the mayans in comparison to the other ethnicities of Mexico. ​

However nonetheless, in the hopes that Jose I, who had managed to worm through representation for the Central Americans in 1826, would appeal to their plight held out in the Yucatan and the Mayan population. The local group of Mayans formed the Representacion Maya Cordiale or the Mayan Representation Cordiale to be the representation of Mayan interests in Mexico. They petitioned the central government to give autonomy to the Yucatan peoples, the Mayans, and proper seat allocation to Mayans and the stoppage of Noble exploitation of the Mayan populace in Mexico. However the petitions were often stopped by the Mexican politicians before they even reached the generous Mexican Emperor. The Mayans soon found out on how the Mexican politicians were hamstringing their petitions, which did not even reach the Mexican Emperor at all. Angered by this upfront, and years of mistreatment and racism, the Representacion Maya Cordiale declared itself the Ejercito Maya de Liberacion or the Mayan Army of Liberation. Their manifesto which they wrote, declared the following:

With irrevocable differences between the Mayan peoples of the Yucatan and the central government governing in Mexico City, have managed to make the situation dire. The Emperor is ignorant of our position, not through his own faults, but due to his subordinates who do not wish to tell him about our situation. We proclaim Emperor Jose I of Mexico to be the Lider Temporal Jose I of the Mayan Nation. We proclaim him our monarch, but we reject union with Mexico. We will be independent, either through diplomacy or by blood.

​

A picture of the racist attacks against the Mayan people. Mayanphobia was a real thing in Mexico back then.
This put the Mexican government in a hard position. They would be attacking the citizens of the Monarch, and the rebellious Mayan people were not backing down an inch by this point and were glaring at the central government, daring them to attack. Jose I was caught by surprise, and over his inability to stop the ensuing war that would be coming, as he did not wish to pursue bloodshed towards people who had declared him their Temporal Leader, he abdicated the throne of Mexico and passed the throne to his crown princess, Crown Princess Zenaide, who was crowned hastily to be Empress Zenaide I of the Mexican Empire in Mexico City. A new army was being assembled to subdue the Mayans when Zenaide entered the Parliament building of the Mexican Empire and dissolved parliament and called for new general elections on August 17th, 1827. She gave a speech in Mexico City stating:

I will not kill my subjects. They want rights. They will get them.

Empress Zenaide I of Mexico.
​

Nonetheless, a small army led by Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna refused to stop and led his army into the Yucatan Peninsula where he started to conduct ruthless reprisals against any and all Mayans he saw. Empress Zenaide I declared Santa Anna to be a traitor and wanted him brought to her in person. On August 30th, 1827 she called the major leaders of the Mayan insurrection to Mexico City, and using the Constitution of Mexico, which allowed the monarch to take absolute power in times of emergency, invoked the constitution and called for a transition period of 5 months giving all power to her. The Senate of the Mexican Empire voted 52-48 in favor of the transition period and for a period of 5 months, Zenaide I became absolute monarch. Santa Anna would later be brought to Mexico City where he would be executed for killing of civilians, and going against the orders of the Empress.

The atrocities committed by Santa Anna in the Yucatan. ​

She made amendments to the constitution of Mexico, and instead of the three provinces of the Yucatan region, the provinces were amalgamated into the Province of Yucatan, and the constitution of Yucatan was created, which gave equal rights to the Mayan population of the peninsula, which covered around 75% of the population of the peninsula, and made the governor of Yucatan to be a Mayan by compulsory decree. On November 28th, 1827 the Mayan representatives declared secession over, and declared the crisis over as well, coming to become a fully autonomous region of the Mexican Empire. With the crisis dying down, Zenaide I called for new elections to be held in December.

The 1827 Mexican General Elections took place between the Liberals, Conservatives with the Liberals supporting the actions that Zenaide I had taken in regards to the Yucatan, whilst the conservatives opposed the actions taken in Yucatan, which was no surprise, considering the conservatives were mostly bankrolled by the nobles of the Mexican Empire, who were angry at having much of their tenants free in the Yucatan.

The results of the 1827 Mexican General Elections held in December 18 to 22, 1827 were:-

• Liberals: 45% or 225 seats won in the Chamber of Deputies.
• Conservatives: 38% or 190 seats won in the Chamber of Deputies.
• Independents: 17% or 85 seats won in the Chamber of Deputies

The Mexican Chamber of Deputies after the Crisis and elections, Yellow is Liberal, Blue is conservative and grey are independents. ​

The elections confirmed the Liberals victory in the election, and through the elections, Vicente Guererro became the Prime Minister of Mexico, ending a tumultuous few months, and Zenaide I became a constitutional monarch once again, giving up her power to the government in a symbolic ceremony later the evening after Guererro became Prime Minister.

Vicente Gurrero. ​

Zenaide I’s prompt handling of the dispute would make her popularity sky rocket, and even though she would remain a constitutional monarch for the rest of her life, she would contribute so much to the nation, that she is called ‘The Mother of Mexico’ today. Her father, Jose I, instead remained in retirement, living out a quiet life out of the strains of being an Emperor in a small estate in Baja California.” A History of the House of Bonaparte-Mexico. Imperial University of Tejas, 2008.

“After an epic two month long siege, the Siege of Cordoba came to an end and the republican leaders of Argentina were summarily executed by Carlos I of Argentina. Nonetheless, Carlos I became a polarizing figure in Argentine history. He was an able administrator and economist, and under him Argentine trade and business burgeoned, and La Plata region became a powerful trading port in the south atlantic, however he was an absolutist who hated liberalization. He strengthened the Catholic Church and brought any idea of liberalism down before it even began. As such his admirers look at his economic ability to revere him, and his haters look at his absolutism to hate him, making him a polarizing figure in Argentine History.

Nonetheless, after the Argentine Civil War was declared over, Carlos I did give amnesty to many Republican leaders, except the ones at the top, and allowed the rest to live their lives in peace, albeit under house arrest. He also allowed low level elections for mayors and speakers to take place in Argentina, however over that he ruled with an iron fist and political parties were disbanded in the country. He formed his own secret police that would conduct surveys on their own people, rooting out republicans and liberals before they had any new bright idea.

Carlos I of Argentina. ​

Carlos I was also quite hostile to the New English colonization of Patagonia, however with Britain supporting the New English, he could not directly challenge the New English. Instead he armed the Mapuche and the Native Indians of the Patagonian area, and sent them to fight what amounted to be a proxy war between New England and Argentina for decades.” Carlos I: The Polarizer of Argentina, University of Montevideo, 1988.

“Napoleon’s exile in St. Helena was not one of healthiness. He lived in a damp mansion, and he remained detached from others in his care. He had even contemplated at many times, trying to escape from the island, however knew the futility of trying to do such a thing. As such, his health declined, and in August 16th, 1827, Napoleon Bonaparte, the Emperor of the French died in St. Helena.” A Biography of the Emperor of the French.

“Napoleon II, who had lived his entire known life in Austria, received a peculiar letter in November 1827, from his uncle the former Emperor of Mexico. The letter included an invitation from Jose I to come to Mexico and settle down with the rest of the Bonaparte Dynasty, which had migrated to Mexico, with the exception of Charles Louis Napoleon Bonaparte, who was involved in bonapartist politics in France. This was the second offer from Jose I to Napoleon II, however Metternich had not produced the first letter to Napoleon II. Prince Felix, who saw no real use of keeping the junior Napoleon holed up, in fear of his health, saw to that the letter reached Napoleon II. Napoleon II, who was growing ever distant from his mother and step-father and saw himself as confined in Austria, agreed to move to Mexico.

Napoleon II, the Imperial Prince of France, Austria and Mexico. ​

An Austrian ship, escorted by three Mexican corvettes would take the young Bonaparte all the way to Veracruz, and into Mexico.” Napoleon II: The Prince Imperial, University of San Jose, 1911.

“The Imerina Kingdom of the island of Madagascar had been for many years, the pre-eminent power in the island, ruling as the hegemon of the island. Under King Radama I of Imerina, the kingdom had expanded since 1817 to envelope around two thirds of the island under his direct rule with the rest being subjugated as tributary states to Imerina.

King Radama I of Imerina. ​

In late 1827 however, King Radama I was informed about a squadron of European ships coming towards the island, demanding to speak with the Hegemon of the island. His courtiers told him that the ships flew the obsidian black and golden yellow banner. The Habsburgs had arrived.” A History of Austrian Madagascar, University of Trieste, 1996.

***

 

[Sarthak]

Thoughts?

 

[Rivercat893]

Thoughts?

The Mexican Empire is an ascendant power in North American politics.

 

[Azureora]

Very interesting, though I’m confused on the necessity of giving the Yucatán province so much autonomy. Wouldn’t guaranteeing their rights to Yucatán representatives and native Yucatán administrators be better for the state as a whole?

 

[Sarthak]

Very interesting, though I’m confused on the necessity of giving the Yucatán province so much autonomy. Wouldn’t guaranteeing their rights to Yucatán representatives and native Yucatán administrators be better for the state as a whole?

It's actually for the Yucatan natives (Mayans) more than anything else.

 

[Rivercat893]

It's actually for the Yucatan natives (Mayans) more than anything else.

There's no clear analogue of OTL's USA but we do have the Commonwealth of New England and The Mexican Empire as rough decomposites.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

The Mexican Empire as rough decomposites.

If anything this is more of a Brazil analogue with some of the political things going on.

Very interesting, though I’m confused on the necessity of giving the Yucatán province so much autonomy. Wouldn’t guaranteeing their rights to Yucatán representatives and native Yucatán administrators be better for the state as a whole?

I guess a Yucatan Kingdom within the Empire of Mexico would generally alleviate a lot of tensions. It could end up working out in the long term like how Spain had home rule for the Basques as part of the Kingdom of Navarre.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

I'm guessing that with America's economy stagnated at best* and Calhoun a tyrant they'd be too busy with their internal issues to expand their territory. Though I'm thinking that everyone around the new overgrown backwater is likely to be getting American refugees. Like TTL's Canada having a serious American community in their Pacific territories because they'd rather live within a democratic nation with a king than Calhoun's sham Presidency. I'm guessing that Louisiana would send the refugees on to California because they wouldn't want any more Anglophones.

*Just wait until the Boll Weevil royally screws King Cotton.

 

[Rivercat893]

If anything this is more of a Brazil analogue with some of the political things going on.


I guess a Yucatan Kingdom within the Empire of Mexico would generally alleviate a lot of tensions. It could end up working out in the long term like how Spain had home rule for the Basques as part of the Kingdom of Navarre.

Canada, Mexico, and New England might serve as decomposites of OTL's America

I'm guessing that with America's economy stagnated at best* and Calhoun a tyrant they'd be too busy with their internal issues to expand their territory. Though I'm thinking that everyone around the new overgrown backwater is likely to be getting American refugees. Like TTL's Canada having a serious American community in their Pacific territories because they'd rather live within a democratic nation with a king than Calhoun's sham Presidency. I'm guessing that Louisiana would send the refugees on to California because they wouldn't want any more Anglophones.

*Just wait until the Boll Weevil royally screws King Cotton.

Eventually, the American Union will collapse and two nations will be born from the ashes (possibly).

 

[Abd ar-Rahman II]

Thoughts?

Seem like Nappy 3 TTL Charles Louis Napoléon is the only Bonaparte remaining in Europe even if i’m pretty sure there won’t be second empire in TTL and assurely not one with Napoy 3 as leader as long as Napoleon II is still alive . Still it’s a pity he didn’t go to Mexico and participe to it industrialisation like he did in France it will be quite ironic seeing he’s OTL interaction with Mexico . Also the Mayan and Native are getting a better deal wich is always good and enjoyable . Also confirmed Austrian Madagascar

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Canada, Mexico, and New England might serve as decomposites of OTL's America

Eventually, the American Union will collapse and two nations will be born from the ashes (possibly).

I like the idea of a New England dialect more strongly influenced by Irish than it was in OTL. Because an independent New England will have a distinctively different culture than OTL. Especially after decades of independence and different immigration to "ferment" said cultural changes.

Sārthākā may say that the United States will survive in some form, but that doesn't mean that it'll be in one piece.

 

[Rivercat893]

I like the idea of a New England dialect more strongly influenced by Irish than it was in OTL. Because an independent New England will have a distinctively different culture than OTL. Especially after decades of independence and different immigration to "ferment" said cultural changes.

Sārthākā may say that the United States will survive in some form, but that doesn't mean that it'll be in one piece.

Or it could be split between the remnants of the North and the South, both claiming to be the United States like one user as suggested. Plus, European immigration is going to become very common in Canada (Ireland is part of Britain), Mexico (The strong amounts of Catholicism), and Louisiana (New Orleans), especially with Catholics.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Or it could be split between the remnants of the North and the South, both claiming to be the United States like one user as suggested. Plus, European immigration is going to become very common in Canada (Ireland is part of Britain), Mexico (The strong amounts of Catholicism), and Louisiana (New Orleans), especially with Catholics.

I like the idea of two states both claiming to be the true United States. There should also be "true names" for each of them that the other uses to de-legitimize the other one. Like the southern "America" calling the northern "America" the Federals again or "Ohio". Or the northern "America" calling the southern America "Dixie".

With immigration avoiding America like the plague I could see both Americas being extremely underpopulated. Even after at least one of the American successors manages to build up a decent industry.

Part II of my last comment:

I still think that Canada could call themselves a Kingdom with no powerful America to (hypothetically) raise a fuss over it.

I just realized that northern Mexico is going to be an interesting melting pot. California's going to be a hodge-podge of cultures and I'm thinking that there could religious refugees if President-For-Life Calhoun decides that the separation of church and state is another thing not necessary in his new America.

 

[Horseshoe]

Hopefully TTL Mexico will no have the issue of machismo because of new empress