I have to wonder if Rhomania will succeed in converting the East Indies to Orthodox Christianity. It would be very interesting.
It won’t be 100% Orthodox, but I’m thinking by OTL 2020 it is at least the biggest religion with a plurality of followers, with regional variation.
Should this be Lotharingian's?
Good update, Lotharingiana needs to get back in the fight soon, or is going to a second rate or worst power soon.
Fixed. Thank you.
I think you might had been more on the spot in the original version. I don't see how Venice could survive the
Kallergis revolt, with John IV around... The Kallergis btw are a family I'd expect to show up at some point and not just due to... their
coat of arms.
I thought the way the Venetians got Crete back in the old draft to be rather contrived and unrealistic, and Venice has to have Crete in the early 1400s for the Black Day and all that follows to be possible. So if Venice loses Crete in the 1200s it has to get it back sometime in the 1300s, so from a storytelling perspective it makes sense to have Venice just keep it the whole time. Haven’t worked out all the details yet.
That is certainly fair, as I do think that the Mexicans have a very high chance of seizing Aztlan (the U.S. southwest) for themselves once they recover from the fallout of the virgin field epidemics. Whether it is the Mexican Empire or the Triunes, it's clear that the Native Terranovans will suffer harshly from any incursion further into the continent.
(Makes me wonder if the native Mexican elite is just as condescending towards other Native Terranovans as the Triunes are).
Assuming that the native Plains empire lasts longer due to slower colonization, it's possible that they could end up being more like a Khanate under a centralized leader, since the Comanche Empire was pretty much a strongly knit band of tribes that consistently inhabited OTL Texas for decades before the Americans showed up. Although it's not out of the question that they could remain decentralized throughout their history as an independent state.
But it seems that technology is moving closer to industrialization than in OTL, so we might not get to see that happen before they get steamrolled by the Mexicans or the Triunes.
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The Native Mexican elite most definitely are. A Tlaxcallan or Tarascan noble does not see themselves as having anything in common whatsoever with a Chichimec for example.
I think Native Americans have a good chance so long as the ‘horse and gun’ combination remains a major military tool. IOTL many natives using that combo could be major players in large parts of the Americas well into the 1800s. But the Age of Steam completely changes the rules, and all against the Native Americans. So even if a Plains Khanate arose, once the Age of Steam arises I consider it doomed. The Central Asian Khanates were all destroyed by the Russians.
Get the feeling that the Kingdom of France getting the additional land and money from these new conquests will piss off neglected Englishmen something fierce.
Fantastic update!
I'm constantly fascinated by the consequences of the Roman punitive campaign during Theodor's folly. Admittedly this is in part combined with the issues in the foreign office, but whilst I
understand the anti-Roman sentiment here, it does seem a bit rich all things considered.
Vauban and the HRE attack the Romans, which is the Triunes helping the Germans invade the Romans - defacto making them Triune Allies in that regard, so the fact that there is no "why the hell were you that stupid Germany?" sentiment visible leaves me a bit less than impressed with the Lotharingians here, and definately feeds into the idea of an unspoken double-standard, regardless of justification. It's a really interesting aspect of the narrative intentional or otherwise, but I still want to glare at the Lotharingians.
I did specifically check to look at what peace overtures were made/what happened at the time, and in fairness Elizabeth did try and end the war, and D3 is at fault here, ironically he's failed on the two big balance of power changes in Europe, with Henri winning both - damn. One specific bit that stood out was the subsidy idea that was proposed - and I think this is where I'd be curious to know what the Lotharingians were pushing for, if they had any understanding of the Roman mindset as a result of that war they'd have to be able to tell that any policy like that would get nowhere in Constantinople at the time, so I'd be curious to know what they had done to create a peace.
I might have missed it re-reading, but it'd be interesting reading to know whether there was any proto-Italy resolution conversations regarding Germany, and what the Lotharingian perspective on that war was, especially their opinion of the HRE essentially leveraging Triune and Polish support for a war
Though, whilst I've Lotharingia on the mind, I'm curious, the whole "wars beyond the line" treaty, I forget which it is, does that apply to the Triunes and Lotharingia too? Just because with the Lotharingians being somewhat anti-Roman, I can't imagine that has no risk of causing a flashpoint in Rhomania in the East, which would be an ironic twist to essentially cause the long-feared Triune-Roman war on the far side of the world.
I don’t consider the Lotharingian view to be a double-standard at all. I’m going to be getting into this more in the next update (albeit from the German POV) but note that when the HRE and the Triunes were allies, the Triunes were NOT attacking Lotharingia. The Germans never aided, unintentionally or not, Triune active hostilities against Lotharingia. The Romans in 1635 absolutely very much did. The Lotharingians view the Romans as de-facto Triune allies because the Romans, through a combination of viciousness and stupidity, have been acting as de-facto Triune allies.
The Lotharingians are looking out for their own interests. They have no obligation whatsoever to look out for Roman interests or concerns. The Romans at Wennenden dealt a devastating blow to Lotharingian interests, to the direct benefit of the Triunes. The Lotharingians naturally took offense at the Romans for doing so.
The only ‘war beyond the line’ treaty the Romans have is with the Spanish, although the other Latin powers have similar treaties between themselves. I haven’t specified them because they haven’t been relevant.
I think the best chance for a native North American state with a chance of long term survival is a Apache or Navajo Empire based on the plains and the Colorado River Basin and/or a Comanche Empire on the Great Plains. The thing that would need to happen is if one or both could play the game Siam did in playing the other powers, Mexico, Arles, Triunes, Scandinavia, and possibly Japan and Russia, of each other and becoming buffer states. Personally I think an Apache/Navajo Empire has the best shot, especially if they absorb other North American natives as they get kicked out of the rest of the continent.
Pre-steam, I think Native states have good long-term survival chances if they 1) master the ‘horse + gun’ combination and 2) are far enough away from settler states that will have a massive demographic advantage that said settler states aren’t able to bring those numbers to bear.
Post-steam, it becomes a lot harder because 2 goes out the window and 1 loses a lot of its teeth. Once there, a ‘Siam’ situation seems to me to be the only option, and that is not an easy thing.
Well if the Triune and Romans goes to war on island asia they'll be crushed inevitably. Regardless of how powerful their fleet is, the Romans outnumber them in scope of allies and naval bases from where they can muster to. Since that pyrrhic victory on island asia, Rome finally started focusing more on improving their two biggest lands there.
Now I'm not sure if the otl people of the Philippine will defend with zeal their land against foreign encroachment. Well considering our otl did do that during the British - Spanish war. The odds of it happening, is great especially considering how orthodox christianity is spreading the way it is.
At this point in time, I’d say Rhomania’s biggest threats in the East are the big native states rather than other Christians.
Lotharingia is basically the Netherlands at this point with a similar focus on Island Asia and importing Eastern wares to Europe as OTL. I believe it will be able to punch above its weight as Bohmanism makes inroads and it chooses to go tall before eventually becoming a buffer state between Germany/The Triunes or a player in its own right.
Also, I can only imagine what kind of internal crisis the Catholic church is now. The Eternal City gone, pope executed, Antipope holding sway over half of your flock, heretics to the east, south and west. Much of its authority has been lost and I foresee it becoming an apparatus of the Holy Roman Emperor and taking on a distinct German character. Is the new pope Clement a German bishop? Upcoming Johann Eck and Zimmermann not forgotten too. All in all ripe grounds for Bohmanism and other heresies to take root.
After abandoning Island Asia and thus having fewer points of contention, the Triunes and Romans have become that couple who everyone thinks should get together already but still haven't.
Lotharingia is in a weaker position than the OTL Netherlands because there isn’t the same capital & people exodus from Antwerp to Amsterdam ITTL as there was IOTL. Henri II is a kindlier overlord than Philip II. So Amsterdam doesn’t get the huge boost, and also importantly is still competing with Antwerp in a way OTL Amsterdam at its height never did. Antwerp was shuttered as a major port for the 80 Years War and the terms of peace with the Netherlands kept it shuttered because Amsterdam merchants really did not want the competition.
So while Lotharingia is like the Netherlands IOTL, it’s the Netherlands Lite.
Yeah, the Roman Catholic Church is not in a pretty place right now.
If helping Arles helps Rhomania the Rhomans should do it. If helping Arles hurts Rhomania the Rhomans should not do it. Rhomania has no friends, only interests. The nature of diplomacy means the country who "screwed" you over yesterday is today's ally.
Rhomania being needlessly petty and vindictive is how the Triunes got this much this quickly in the first place. I would urge D3 and his family/advisors to not make that mistake again.
This. Very much this.
Also, to add to this, every other country operates in the same manner. Rhomania is owed no country’s friendship. If Rhomania acts against X’s interests, regardless of past history, X will object.
The Triple Monarchy: Yeah, I think Henri II messed up with England here, although I have a hard time faulting him. I don’t blame him for not wanting to add a fourth crown to his head. Furthermore not attaching Flanders, with its centuries-old historical connections, back to France would anger the French and there’s 7 Frenchmen for every 2 Englishmen. So if you must anger one, anger the latter.
So while I think Henri II did wrong here, I’m unsure how he could’ve done right, other than not launch the war in the first place, and where is the fun in that? The Triple Monarchy is a composite state, which are inherently more unstable. That said, I do have plans for some concessions which Henri will grant the English to mollify them, but they didn’t quite fit here since those are more important in the 1640s and I want to wrap up the 1630s.
As for a Roman-Triune alliance or at least understanding, that’s not happening so long as the Ottoman-Triune naval and trade agreement is in play.
The map of @Frame: Yeah, the Galicia is too big and too west. I haven’t specified Galicia (because honestly it would take too much time for an issue that’s not important) but the Principality of Presporok (Slovakia) is a Polish vassal. Slovakia is the old country so I have to give it some love.
Also the Rhine Delta region coloring looks off like you forgot to change some bits. And the bishoprics on the left bank of the Rhine have been annexed by Henri II. He wants those enclaves (Liege is a big economic gain). If it were me, I’d color them the Triune colors but keep the borders just to show what the Triunes have taken.
Triunes and the Rhineland: Henri’s goal is to annex everything west of the Rhine. This is relatively easy since it’s mostly Lotharingia or heretical bishoprics from King’s Harbor POV. The right bank of the Rhine is where things get tricky. Henri doesn’t want to get sucked into Germany in case he gets stuck, but he wants the east bank covered by a series of vassal states to guard the actual gains (the west bank). Henri knows that at some point the HRE will recover and counterattack so he wants a buffer already in place for when that happens.
And Albrecht III is still a king, but also a vassal. Henri II is an Emperor so he can have Kings as vassals.
What are the names of the Roman cities in India? I'm having a hard time remembering it
Surat and Alappuzha.
I can't exactly blame the Romans at this point for upsetting the balance of power. They're still seeing red at Theodore and Germany for devastating their homes and want them to suffer. I would honestly expect the concept of Schadenfreude to originate in Greece and not Germany in this TL.
I'm likening Henry to be the Trinue equivalent of Andreas. As in like Andreas, Henri made massive gains for his country only to have it experience turmoil after his death.
I don’t exactly blame the Romans either. I understand why they did what they did. But that doesn’t mean they get to escape the consequences.
How are the Siddi dynasties doing in India? Is Janjira state vassals of Vijaynagar or have been co-opted into the administration/army and been given lots of autonomy? Also, have links between them and Ethiopia been restored, given it's involvement in the subcontinent and their common Abyssinian heritage?
Didn’t know these were even a thing so can’t speak as to their TTL status.
Scotland: The Empire of All the North is currently an ally of Henri II, whose sister is married to the Scandinavian ruler. Furthermore Henri is not interested in mega-blobbing; as shown by the fact that his territorial annexations stop at the Rhine and afterwards it’s a matter of vassals/puppets, he knows he’s not playing EU4.
I'd really, really, really, really hope that Henri doesn't get Scotland as well. Even the Sun King wasn't that successful. I already feel Henri is pushing the realms of Sueness a bit for my comfort, though I can stomach him as the Triune's getting their 'lucky break'.
Taking Lotharingia, ruining the HRE, everything else he's done and getting Scotland? That's...yeah. I don't think that would be pushing Sueness anymore.
This is a story, but the conceit is that this is an alternate history too. And Mary Sue is a literary term, not a historical one. Was Sargon of Akkad a Mary Sue? Alexander the Great? Genghis Khan? Shaka Zulu? Mary Sue just doesn’t work for them. Some people are wildly insanely successful and never get a comeuppance, deserved or otherwise.
Does the reivers culture develop between this timeline Triune's and the Northern Kingdom, such as between England and Scotland.
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofScotland/The-Border-Reivers/
Not to the extent of OTL. The…cessation of the Auld Alliance dialed down the Scottish willingness to tangle with the English.
On the topic of the Triple Monarchy invading and annexing Scotland: I would think that this would definitely trigger a coalition. Let me explain my thinking.
It will take some years (probably) for Henri to consolidate his recent prize of Western Lotharingia completely, and then Henri being Henri would probably reinforce the Navy a bit in that time, and then declare war on the EOATN (at least that's what I would do in a EU4 run). The annexation of Scotland would then be added to the Kingdom of England to make them a bit happier (perhaps renaming the Kingdom into the Kingdom of Albion??). Although if the North Italian, Iberian, Arles, HRE & EOATN are also given a few years reprieve as well, then a grand Western European Coalition against the Triple Monarchy could most probably occur.
Hell, maybe Henri's heir will attempt this and trigger it as that would definitely give Western Europe enough peace to rebuild by then. All I'm saying is that the Triple Monarchy in the 1650s reminds me of Great Britain's call for action of Europe against the 'Russian Bear' in Eastern Europe in the late 1800s (Queue Crimean War) a little bit.
Also, wasn't there an Oliver Cromwell born around this time in the Triple Monarchy in the Triple Monarchy Update or something (too lazy rn to go check).
Richard Neville actually (more popular known as the Kingmaker). The only reason I’d have an Oliver Cromwell show up is so that I can have an Irishman kill him, which doesn’t sound like such a bad idea now that I mention it.
The next part of
Not the End: The Empire Under the Laskarids has been posted on Patreon for Megas Kyr patrons. It covers the pivotal battle of Pelagonia, a key moment in the Laskarid re-conquest of Hellas, and the immediate aftermath. (Despite the obvious naming similarities to OTL, there are some key differences between the OTL and TTL engagements, particularly in the aftereffects.)
Thank you again for your support.
