Separated at Birth: America and Drakia
- Thread starter Ephraim Ben Raphael
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Or we could perhaps discuss Ms. Rand here: https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/ayn-rand-thread.476110/ in chat?
On a final note, I think that there is a number of differences between Naldoessen and Rand.
While the main similarity is obviously that they both are philosophers that emigrated to a new country, where they gained fame through fictional writing with lengthy monologues, then Naldorssen never experienced personal persecution in her home country, nor did she see the need to take a pen name (or did she, there is a mention of her being referred to a man?), nor did she study theater (but rather history, which one might think would lead her to include a larger number of footnotes and fewer monologues?)
Also, Naldorssen has a Danish as opposed to a Jewish/Russian background, which I think is well reflected in the writing as she is an enthusiastic adopter of the ideals of her new country.
In terms of the philosophy, societism is very much the anti-objectivism with one possible exception: In objectivism, an action is judged by what it achieves, not what it intended. In Stirling's book, the Draka twist this into "that desiring the end, means desiring the means", though I am not sure that Ephraim Ben Raphael is taking objectivism here as well. Summing up, I think that this is excellent writing.
Personally, I like to think of Naldoessen as “WI Rand wrote the Turner Diaries”
It’s also worth noting that the Draka embraced her far more than America embraced Rand. That has to have a dramatic effect on her psyche
That actually isn’t the case. Objectivism is big on virtue ethics (as Ayn Rand loved Aristotelian ethics) which looks at actions as following from intent.
So a good example OTL (and in her literature) is that from the Objectivist framework someone might claim that they have other’s wellbeing at heart, but if they are forcing people into altruism they don’t actually have such intent or a superficial version of that intent.
Vaguely yes. I'll leave it at that to avoid spinning this conversation up again.
Obligatory finally caught up post.
I promised myself I wouldn't read any more Draka TLs but here we are. Very well written.
Hypothetically if the final America/Drakia confrontation results in both sides rolling a 1 is civilization just destroyed?
I promised myself I wouldn't read any more Draka TLs but here we are. Very well written.
Hypothetically if the final America/Drakia confrontation results in both sides rolling a 1 is civilization just destroyed?
I'm guessing both sides rolling a 1 would result in other countries taking the lead, with both of those two collapsing.
Good Lord that sounds so boring (unless the geoists roll a 19 and conquer the world of course
)
I never really cared for the original Draka, they were basically some sort of evil caricature society (and not in a Green Antarctica straight horror way, at least that was charming), but I really like this more grounded take. The fleshing out of the ATL world is really interesting; whether the Draka-*Nazi War is against geoists or some ideology reacting against it is a question I'm really interested in. Is it wrong I want the author to do a serious Space Race timeline remixing the Lords of Creation series next
?*Edit- If I got anyone's hopes up this delightful thing had updated I'm not sorry.
You know, this take on the Draka reminds me of Columbia from Bioshock: Infinite. You have a country of reactionary Christian fundamentalists who practice industrial slavery with lots of Confederacy lionising who believe it's their god-given right to expand and conquer the world.
Well an idea or concept has to start somewhere and if it gets others interested (even if in a I can do better boast) I say it has some worthI never really cared for the original Draka, they were basically some sort of evil caricature society (and not in a Green Antarctica straight horror way, at least that was charming), but I really like this more grounded take. The fleshing out of the ATL world is really interesting; whether the Draka-*Nazi War is against geoists or some ideology reacting against it is a question I'm really interested in. Is it wrong I want the author to do a serious Space Race timeline remixing the Lords of Creation series next
*Edit- If I got anyone's hopes up this delightful thing had updated I'm not sorry.
As the British heritage is probably decreased or downplayed in Draka, I am curious to how society might develop.
I could see uniforms changing to get rid of their former pride in being a british "dominion" and establish themselves as more of their "empire." I think a neoclassical craze will come soon - the soldiers might now use more Roman influnece like the oringinal Drakaverse, especially with Naldorossen introducing the "color blind" slavery that attracted them to neoclassicalism.
I could see pimped out Neoclassical architecture with perhaps futurist elements as well.
In terms of Draka parade uniform, to emulate the romans, I could see them adopting Animal pelts to an extent as well as other civilizations they fetishize, such as Ancien Regime France.
Now the Draka have begun to become less Anglo Saxon and more you know - the "race."
Thus I see them in pimped out uniforms and likely unsettling attire, architecture, and whatnot to add to their increasingly quasi alien nature they are developing at this point.
Also Draka architecture I could see getting more pimped out.
To emulate the romans with more "modernization,"this is an idea, although think to a higher extent.
Animal pelt "parade uniform." (I do think the pith helmet will be replaced over time as British influence declines with something Corinthian or Roman looking, given the likely coming neo classical influence, as well as probably viewing pith helmets as too soft, preferring a good old neoclassical helmet with a great bright brush plume inmitating illyrian/roman style. I do think Corinthian for Draka parade uniforms would be cool, as it symbolizes their spartanic heritage, and it also separates them from softer european powers and will fit well with Elvira Naldorossen's ideology of Societism.
Later era Draka parade helmet? Granted the uniforms will probably look similar to western powers otherwise, in terms of the tunic and breastplate (though a more ancient style breastplate can be adopted, I dont think the tunic will change to a straight up toga.)
Also this I feel is a good combat uniform (for around wwii era of this timeline due to technological advance being faster as well as draka generally being evil geniuses known for having very up to date technology giving them an edge) ... Both because it is pretty canon based on the cover used in marching through gerogia, plus it gives me a "more evil Rhodesia" (I think nazified, giant, Rhodesia as Draka) vibe that the draka has.
Yeah just some thoughts.
Edit: given the fact that tech is more advanced, by the modern day in this timeline both sides will probably be using power armor to an extent for combat purposes, if not universally eqiuped. I picture a sort of fallout aesethic for this cold war for some reason in my opinion. Though the power armor will probably look more realistic and less comical than the BOS armor, I mean in term of the political aesethic and style in general, a atompunk.
This is an OTL aussie concept for a future suit of power armor, so it would not look like fallout universe at all unless heavier than this for certain units. Just to put things in perspective, the modern soldier by 2019 in this timeline might look like these above.
I could see uniforms changing to get rid of their former pride in being a british "dominion" and establish themselves as more of their "empire." I think a neoclassical craze will come soon - the soldiers might now use more Roman influnece like the oringinal Drakaverse, especially with Naldorossen introducing the "color blind" slavery that attracted them to neoclassicalism.
I could see pimped out Neoclassical architecture with perhaps futurist elements as well.
In terms of Draka parade uniform, to emulate the romans, I could see them adopting Animal pelts to an extent as well as other civilizations they fetishize, such as Ancien Regime France.
Now the Draka have begun to become less Anglo Saxon and more you know - the "race."
Thus I see them in pimped out uniforms and likely unsettling attire, architecture, and whatnot to add to their increasingly quasi alien nature they are developing at this point.
Also Draka architecture I could see getting more pimped out.
To emulate the romans with more "modernization,"this is an idea, although think to a higher extent.
Animal pelt "parade uniform." (I do think the pith helmet will be replaced over time as British influence declines with something Corinthian or Roman looking, given the likely coming neo classical influence, as well as probably viewing pith helmets as too soft, preferring a good old neoclassical helmet with a great bright brush plume inmitating illyrian/roman style. I do think Corinthian for Draka parade uniforms would be cool, as it symbolizes their spartanic heritage, and it also separates them from softer european powers and will fit well with Elvira Naldorossen's ideology of Societism.
Later era Draka parade helmet? Granted the uniforms will probably look similar to western powers otherwise, in terms of the tunic and breastplate (though a more ancient style breastplate can be adopted, I dont think the tunic will change to a straight up toga.)
Also this I feel is a good combat uniform (for around wwii era of this timeline due to technological advance being faster as well as draka generally being evil geniuses known for having very up to date technology giving them an edge) ... Both because it is pretty canon based on the cover used in marching through gerogia, plus it gives me a "more evil Rhodesia" (I think nazified, giant, Rhodesia as Draka) vibe that the draka has.
Yeah just some thoughts.
Edit: given the fact that tech is more advanced, by the modern day in this timeline both sides will probably be using power armor to an extent for combat purposes, if not universally eqiuped. I picture a sort of fallout aesethic for this cold war for some reason in my opinion. Though the power armor will probably look more realistic and less comical than the BOS armor, I mean in term of the political aesethic and style in general, a atompunk.
This is an OTL aussie concept for a future suit of power armor, so it would not look like fallout universe at all unless heavier than this for certain units. Just to put things in perspective, the modern soldier by 2019 in this timeline might look like these above.
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Any alternate ideas for a Draka uniform?
@Ephraim Ben Raphael
Got any specific ideas in mind for the coming WWII? You know the bad guys (snakes in this case) generally look cool and have good fashion...
Just like I think the most "ur fascistic" aestehtic for the Draka, that includes the flamboyance of say, Herman Goering, or "Austrofascist" uniforms, and the fetishized fascistic appearance of the waffen SS, with more anglo and roman neoclassical influence. That is what I have in mind in general.
Also this is a austrofascist uniform poster for reference
I think it might have elements of this including feathers from tropical birds (such as on the hat) but maybe more pimped out with Medals and Animal pelts.
@Ephraim Ben Raphael
Got any specific ideas in mind for the coming WWII? You know the bad guys (snakes in this case) generally look cool and have good fashion...
Just like I think the most "ur fascistic" aestehtic for the Draka, that includes the flamboyance of say, Herman Goering, or "Austrofascist" uniforms, and the fetishized fascistic appearance of the waffen SS, with more anglo and roman neoclassical influence. That is what I have in mind in general.
Also this is a austrofascist uniform poster for reference
I think it might have elements of this including feathers from tropical birds (such as on the hat) but maybe more pimped out with Medals and Animal pelts.
I still think that a helmet with a modernized take on Roman helmets could be a good idea. Minimizing the amount of uncovered face means that the chance that a headshot hit is minimized.
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