"Our Struggle": What If Hitler Had Been a Communist?

[Tanner151]

View attachment 477306
So this is Roter Frontkämpferbund. German anti fascist/communist paramilitary. Due to hitlers oratory skills, it seems likely their numbers will swell. Yet after the war, a large amount of unemployed paramilitaries might be a sort of Pandora’s box/wild card. It’s likely hitler will try to integrate them into the reichswehr, while in theory continuing a diminished organization. It would be a win win.
For one, they would need employment since the fascist threat is gone.
For two, it would lead to leftists outnumbering perhaps disloyal officers, coup proofing the army.
Since their purpose is done and the proletarian dictatorship has begun, there won’t be much ideological issue with integration as the fascists are already beat down.

I agree he’ll probably dissolve the Red Front down to a small ceremonial Organisation (like he did with OTL SA post Night of the Long Knives), while the bulk of his Red Front men join the new Volksheer or whatever it’s called (what is the official name @The Red for Germany’s military branches?).

The influx of Communist believers would greatly enlarge the German Army, teach/retract them discipline and following orders, as well as undermining the Prussian/conservative officer corps. I concur with those statements

 

[Ismaili777]

I agree he’ll probably dissolve the Red Front down to a small ceremonial Organisation (like he did with OTL SA post Night of the Long Knives), while the bulk of his Red Front men join the new Volksheer or whatever it’s called (what is the official name @The Red for Germany’s military branches?).

The influx of Communist believers would greatly enlarge the German Army, teach/retract them discipline and following orders, as well as undermining the Prussian/conservative officer corps. I concur with those statements

Similar concept but I expect less controversy. The thing about the SA was it desired to be the new army, which it didn’t get. These anti fascist militants will have smashed the fascists, so they may see the German army as the new stage of anti fascism - international anti fascism it could be branded as.
Inevitably, the German army will have the same advantage as OTL. The shrunk reichswehr will make up for numbers in training as OTL, and this army will still have an effective base to grow on. The volkswehr will likely due technology exchange with soviets often, which Germany did otl, but with ideological common ground it will occur to a greater extent.
Although one topic I find interesting... like nazi Germany initially backed the Kuomintang might red Germany give mao more support?

 

[Ismaili777]

Time for a hopeful fan post
“Reinhard Heydrich, of the German Salvation Army
Many call me a traitor... that is such foolishness.
In the usurper Hitlers Germany, the terror is unimaginable!
The church has been all but smashed, the clergy murdered.
For simply expressing distaste with the policies, one can personally find themselves in prison!
Don’t get me started on being caught and executed simply fulfilling your obligation to Christ!
Are you willing to have the audacity to call the great German, Frederick William III a traitor for trying to rid his nation of the mad genius Napoleon’s yoke?
Just as Frederick William III tried to liberate his nation, I Reinhard Heydrich, am risking death to liberate Germany from the madness of Hitler and his gang of masons and kikes!*
As Frederick III allied with the Tsar of Russia, I will willingly take Mussolini and his majesty Victor Emmanuel III’s assistance in killing this vermin!”

*i purposely added that part to make him seem less sympathetic (which he wasn’t otl by any measure)

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

Eh, Iron Cross could maybe be maintained because IIRC it was meant to be a more egalitarian reward, which would fit in with Hitelr's communist ideal. And since Hitler is still nationalistic I think it would appeal to him rather than ditching it wholesale.

That said, maybe he would change it slightly - for example, change the colour scheme from white and black to gold and red?

Then again he may not if it is seen as too associated with Wilhelmite Germany.

The one big change you'd have to make are the higher tiers of the award- instead of the Knight's Cross, perhaps Hero/People/Vanguard/(True) Comrade's Cross, and instead of embellishments with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds; Hammers, Sickles and Rifles.

 

[Ismaili777]

I seriously believe the colonial powers might be the aggressor in the coming war. Not because the communist states are committed to pacifism, of course not.
It’s more because they would want to deal with it potentially before these states rearm enough or their own workers get inspired to follow Germany’s example. Consider Italy, France, and even Britain’s EXTENSIVE communist movements.
A “now or never” attitude may be pursued.

 

[Nyvis]

I expect the spark towards war to be more in the middle honestly. Kinda like the WW1 domino.

 

[Thon Taddeo]

I'm really curious how a Red Germany would affect East Asia. OTL, Germany and China enjoyed decent relations in 1930s, until Hitler later decided to ally with Japan. German officers were hired by Chiang to help modernize the Chinese military. I don't think these officers would support the communists. Could a "Free German Army" be created by these men? Would Chiang try to establish good relations with Red Germany, regarding Japan as the bigger enemy than communism? Or would his fear of communism cause him to try to appease Japan? He is after all still actively trying to suppress Mao's communists at this time, and the Germans might only help him if he reaches some sort of accord with the communists.

 

[cortz#9]

So I take it Hitler won't ally with Imperial Japan but will he continue Germany's support of Nationalist China or break those ties and support Mao and Chinese communists as soon as he comes to power?

 

[cortz#9]

I'm really curious how a Red Germany would affect East Asia. OTL, Germany and China enjoyed decent relations in 1930s, until Hitler later decided to ally with Japan. German officers were hired by Chiang to help modernize the Chinese military. I don't think these officers would support the communists. Could a "Free German Army" be created by these men? Would Chiang try to establish good relations with Red Germany, regarding Japan as the bigger enemy than communism? Or would his fear of communism cause him to try to appease Japan? He is after all still actively trying to suppress Mao's communists at this time, and the Germans might only help him if he reaches some sort of accord with the communists.

I didn't see your post earlier but yeah I was wondering the same thing.

 

[Ismaili777]

So I take it Hitler won't ally with Imperial Japan but will he continue Germany's support of Nationalist China or break those ties and support Mao and Chinese communists as soon as he comes to power?

Perhaps, but he also may seek a compromise and keep this in mind:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_ideology_of_the_Kuomintang
That's partially why Stalin for some time was pro Kuomintang. With more support, perhaps they drift left and compromise with CCP.

 

[Nyvis]

Perhaps, but he also may seek a compromise and keep this in mind:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_ideology_of_the_Kuomintang
That's partially why Stalin for some time was pro Kuomintang. With more support, perhaps they drift left and compromise with CCP.

You need to topple Chiang for that really, he was rabidly anti CCP.

 

[Ismaili777]

You need to topple Chiang for that really, he was rabidly anti CCP.

Chiang didn't have utter control. For example when he was hesistant to declare war against japan wanting him to focus on China his fellow officers basically forced him to at gun point.

 

[Ismaili777]

When hitler goes communist:

 

[Ismaili777]

Also, as an addition to the Christmas Eve update, Rosa Muller on the Alpine Front:

Well guys i found a canon uniform

 

[Ismaili777]

A subtitled scene to the german movie “rise” where “comrade hitler” informs the Prussian officers they no longer hold monopoly over politics.

 

[The Red]

Yeesh, you go to the Fringe for a couple of days and come back to quite the discussion. Lots of great ideas floating around here guys, thanks as always.

Eh, Iron Cross could maybe be maintained because IIRC it was meant to be a more egalitarian reward, which would fit in with Hitelr's communist ideal. And since Hitler is still nationalistic I think it would appeal to him rather than ditching it wholesale.

That said, maybe he would change it slightly - for example, change the colour scheme from white and black to gold and red?

Then again he may not if it is seen as too associated with Wilhelmite Germany.

I haven't dwelled on decorations all that much (despite their important role at the beginning of the TL!) but I imagine the Iron Cross might hang around. You might also see a ATL version of something akin to the Hans Beimler medal in the not too distant future...

This atl hitler hates fascists utterly though, he organized responses to fascist marches.

I wouldn't say that he utterly hates fascists, like a lot of communists in this era he's more dismissive of them than anything to the extent that they're beneath contempt. Hence why the Red Front have to be tricked into ambushing their rally under "Hitler's" orders.

To be fair, I had no idea National Bolshevism was so discredited and despised. My bad for lack of research.

It's such a fringe ideology outside of Russia that it's understandable a lot of people see it as more of an oddity than anything else. In lefty circles it's used frequently as a perjorative term (alongside Strasserist) for people who talk left but then turn out to be racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/anti-semitic/etc but it's very rarely the case these people actually are Third Positionists. This doesn't mean they shouldn't be taken seriously, there are people like Aleksandr Dugin who may or may not have a certain amount of clout in the Kremlin, but realistically it's best just to lump them in with the broader far-right as that's what they essentially are.

And the reason I said he could be populist who clothes himself in communist rhetoric is that Hitler is still Hitler. Still ambitious, still manipulative, and still angry at so many things that I was arguing he might have joined the Communist Party and established the Red Front to fight against the system and lash out with anger. Initially he was left-leaning Socialist in Vienna ITTL and became Communist during/after the Great War (can’t remember exactly).
He might have joined the KPD as a matter of convenience, made the Red Front to help him hurt the French and British, and then realized he was doing well with the Party and began to immerse himself more and more in communist rhetoric and theory to ease his rise to power within the Party, likely truly believing much of what he says.

This is pretty much spot on, to paraphrase Rosa Luxemburg Hitler is just as interested in basking in the glow of the old world set alight as he is in beckoning in the new one. Not to to say that he's merely a chaos lover, German Ideology isn't a front, but it's tenents are focused on the destruction of the old order with a bit more finality than some Marxist texts.

I'm really curious how a Red Germany would affect East Asia. OTL, Germany and China enjoyed decent relations in 1930s, until Hitler later decided to ally with Japan. German officers were hired by Chiang to help modernize the Chinese military. I don't think these officers would support the communists. Could a "Free German Army" be created by these men? Would Chiang try to establish good relations with Red Germany, regarding Japan as the bigger enemy than communism? Or would his fear of communism cause him to try to appease Japan? He is after all still actively trying to suppress Mao's communists at this time, and the Germans might only help him if he reaches some sort of accord with the communists.

I don't want to give too much away but the Second Sino-Japanese War will be significantly different from OTL, and the DAR will be more involved than Nazi Germany ever was.

 

[Tannenberg]

I don't want to give too much away but the Second Sino-Japanese War will be significantly different from OTL, and the DAR will be more involved than Nazi Germany ever was.

Friendship with Japan is over, now Mao Zedong is my friend

 

[Ismaili777]

German expressionism will likely supersede the otl neoclassicism.

With Hitler likely not having a fetish for neo classical monumental architecture, its likely weimar architecture like this will continue.

Hitler ifrc had a boring sexual life but its likely he will tolerate a cultural sexual revolution as he could be pragmatic (even otl allying with neopagan feminist groups, only if they praised him)
Its likely that living standards are better than Nazi Germany too, given that Hitlers socialism was A REAL THING in this timeline.

 

[Utgard96]

If Communist Hitler running Germany for a few years gives us a Chilehaus on every street corner, it will have been worth it in the end.

 

[HelloThere]

Interesting idea! Often this scenario is discussed, but very rarely does anyone try to put it into action.

Nevertheless, I would have a few questions or comments:

Why would crown prince Wilhelm stand in the Reichstag elections? He wasn't that popular and as someone who hated parliamentarism I can't see him do this. The only thing I can see is him running in the Reichspräsidentschaftselection in 1932, which he considered OTL (but was vetoed by his father Wilhelm II.).

Why has monarchism become so popular again ITTL? OTL most Germans (even on the right-wing) didn't want to restore the imperial throne, even the DNVP dropped monarchism in the early 20's.

Why is Hitler called "Volksführer"? This seems too close to the Fascist "Duce", which a Marxist Hitler surely wouldn't want to use. I can only see him being adressed as General Secretary or maybe "dear father" if he develops as Stalinist cult of personality.

And one last thing: I'm quiet sure that a Marxist Hitler wouldn't call his ideas "German ideology" (at least since 1932) because Marx & Engels used that term to describe idealist Hegelianism (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_German_Ideology).