List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

[Jonathan]

Henry VII of England (28/1/1457–22/8/1485-21/4/1509) m. 1486, Elizabeth of York (11/2/1466-16/4/1523)

1) Arthur, Prince of Wales (20/9/1486–2/4/1502) m. 1501, Catherine of Aragon (16/12/1485–7/1/1536)
2) Margaret, Queen of Scotland (28/11/1489–18/10/1541) m. 1503 a) James IV of Scotland (17/3/1473-11/6/1488–9/9/1513) m. 1514, b) Archibald Douglas, 6th Earl of Angus (c. 1489 – 22/1/1557) div. 1527, m. 1528, c) Henry Stewart, 1st Lord Methven (c. 1495–1552)

1a) James, Duke of Rothesay (21/2/1507–27/2/1508)
2a) Unnamed Daughter (15/7/1508)
3a) Arthur Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (20/10/1509–14/7/1510)
4a) James V of Scotland (10/4/1512–14/12/1542)
5a) Unnamed Daughter (4/11/1512)
6a) Alexander Stewart, Duke of Ross (30/4/1514–18/12/1515)
7b) Margaret Douglas (8/10/1515–7/3/1578)​

3) Henry VIII, of England (28/6/1491–21/4/1509-28/1/1547) m. 1501, a) Catherine of Aragon (16/12/1485–7/1/1536) annulled 1533, m. 1533, b) Anne Boleyn (c.1501–19/5/1536) beheaded 1536, m. 1536, c) Jane Seymour (c.1508–24/10/1537) m. 1540, d) Anne of Cleves (c.1515–16/7/1557) annulled 1540, m. 1540, e) Catherine Howard (c.1523–13/2/1542) executed 1542, m. 1543, f) Catherine Parr (c.1512–5/9/1548)

1a) Unnamed daughter (31/1/1510)
2a) Henry, Duke of Cornwall (1/1/1511-22/2/1511)
3a) Unnamed son (17/9/1513)
4a) Unnamed son (8/1/1515)
5a) Mary, Empress of Holy Roman Empire (18/2/1516-17/11/1566) m. 1547, Ferdinand I, King of the Romans, later, Holy Roman Emperor (10/3/1503–27/8/1556—25/7/1564) [4]

1a) Eduard, Duke of Bohemia and Bulgaria (10/5/1549-30/11/1606) m. 1570, a) Anna of Austria (2/11/1549–26/10/1580) m. 1584, b) Isabella Clara Eugenia (12/8/1566–1/12/1633)

1a)​

2a) Isabella of Austria (11/8/1551-4/8/1616)​

6a) Unnamed daughter (10/11/1518)
7¿) Henry FitzRoy, 1st Duke of Richmond (15/6/1519-23/7/1536) m. 1533, Mary Howard (c. 1519–7/12/1557)
8b) Elizabeth (7/9/1533-24/3/1603) m. 1547, Philip II of Spain (21/5/1527–13/9/1598) [5]
9b) Unnamed son (30/8/1534)
10b) Unnamed son (29/1/1536)
11c) Edward VI of England (12/10/1537-28/1/1547-6/7/1553)​

4) Elizabeth (2/7/1492–14/9/1495)
5) Mary, Queen of France (18/3/1496–25/6/1533) m. 1514 a) Louis XII of France (27/6/1462–1/1/1515) m. 1515, b) Charles Brandon, 1st Duke of Suffolk (c. 1484–22/8/1545)

1b) Henry Brandon (11/3/1516– 9/4/1522)
2b) Frances Grey, Duchess of Suffolk (16 July 1517 – 20 November 1559) m. 1533, Henry Grey, 3rd Marquess of Dorset

1) Lady Jane (c. 1537-1581)
2) Lady Katherine (25/8/1540–26/1/1568)
3) Lady Mary (c. 1545–20/4/1578)​

3b) Eleanor Clifford, Countess of Cumberland (c.1519-27/9/1547)
4b) Henry Brandon, 1st Earl of Lincoln (c.1523–1/3/1534)​

6) Edmund, Duke of Somerset and Lord Protector of England (21/2/1499-29/10/1551) [1] m. Ursula Pole (c.1504–12/6/1570) [2]

1) Prince Henry, Earl of Exeter (7/11/1520– 16/6/1522)
2) Princess Elizabeth (30/1/1522-17/3/1527)
3) Princess Margaret (15/9/1524-
3) Princess Catherine (1/10/1526–22/9/1604), m.
5) Henry IX of England (16/8/1527-6/7/1553-1565), m. 1547, Archduchess Maria of Austria (21/6/1528–26/2/1603)
6) Princess Elizabeth (30/6/1529
7) Prince Edmund (8/4/1532-
8) Prince Edward (17/1/1533-18/10/1603)
9) Princess Mary (23/5/1535-
10) Prince Arthur (11/5/1538-
11) Prince Richard (28/7/1539-
12) Prince George (2/12/1540-
13) Princess Ursula (9/3/1542-
​

Notes
Names in red denotes members of royalty dying in childhood
Names in bold denotes monarchs.
Dates in italic denotes dates that monarchs started their reign.

[1] Edmund survived childhood to be a strong son of Henry VII.

In 1509, he became heir presumptive to his brother, holding this title on numerous times:
1509-1511, replaced by Henry VIII’s first son, Henry, Duke of Cornwall
1511-1515, replaced by Henry VIII’s second born eldest son, Henry, Duke of Cornwall
1515-1537, replaced by Henry VIII’s third born eldest son, Edward, Prince of Wales.

He would serve as Lord Protector of England from 1547 until his death, during the minority of his nephew, King Edward VI (1547–1553)

[2] Ursula was a wealthy heiress and the only daughter of Margaret Pole, 8th Countess of Salisbury. Her mother was the last surviving member of the Plantagenet dynasty, as Margaret was first cousin, Elizabeth of York, Ursula and Edmund were first cousin once removed, sharing the same great-grandfather, Richard Plantagenet, 3rd Duke of York.

She was not the first choice for the young prince. His father, tried arranging treaty’s to form a marriage, from 1502 until his death, including:
- Elizabeth, Archduchess of Austria and Infanta of Castile and Aragon, daughter of of King Philip I and Queen Joanna of Castile.
- Renée of France, younger surviving child of Louis XII of France and Anne of Brittany.
- Susanne of Bavaria, the daughter of Albert IV, Duke of Bavaria, and Kunigunde of Austria, herself the daughter of Holy Roman EmperorFrederick III and Eleanor of Portugal.
However no agreements were made by the time of Henry VII’s death in 1507.

Ursula Pole was suggested by Cardinal Thomas Wolsey, for which Henry VIII, contemplated.
Elizabeth of York, Dowager Queen of England, spent a lot of time with her cousin, Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury, allowing Edmund to spend time with Margaret’s three sons and Ursula.

At the birth of his nephew, 16 year old Edmund, requested his brother’s permission to wed 11 year old Ursula, Henry VIII agreed to this marriage on 6th January 1515, the day after Prince Henry’s christening.
The pair were married in a proxy ceremony performed a month later on 2nd February by Cardinal Wolsey, himself.
The Countess of Salisbury gave lands in Somerset and Devon, to Prince Edmund and Princess Ursula
[3] Following the annulment of their wedding in 1533, Catherine moved in with the Somerset’s Glastonbury Palace, within the grounds of Glastonbury Abbey.
She would remain with them until her death. Although this caused a slight rift between Henry VIII and Edmund, whenever Edmund visited London for meetings the two were amicable.

[4] Following the death of Anna of Bohemia and Hungary on the 27 January 1547, having bore her husband, Archduke Ferdinand of Austria, a total of 15 children, many expected Ferdinand to stay single.

However Prince Edmund as Lord Protector of England arranged a heavily respectable dowry for his niece, Mary, who at 31, was seen by this time standards, past her prime, to be married to Ferdinand I, with hopes of her living comfortably.

Following her move to Prague, Mary, enjoyed married life, looking after her 44 year old husband and his children. A year into their marriage, Mary was blessed with a pregnancy and when her son was born, she requested that the boy was named after her caring uncle.

Two years later another child blessed the new couple and

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Lancastrian wank under construction:

Lancastrian wank starts with Burgundian POD:
Bonne d'Artois does not die in 1426. Few other people also live longer as you may notice.
Someone lives longer, so someone dies earlier to counterbalance-Henry VI jumps out of the window during his first attack of madness, leaving the throne to infant Edward of Westminster.

Philip (1396-1467) Duke of Burgundy 1419-1467 m. a) 1409 Michelle de Valois (1395-1422) b) 1424 Bonne d'Artois (1396-1451)

1b) Anthony (1427-) Duke of Burgundy 1467 m. 1440 Catherine of France (1428-1479)

1) Philip (1445-1452)​

2) Charles (1449-1453)​

3) John II (1451-1480) Duke of Burgundy m. ???​

4) Bonne (1454-1529) m. 1468 Edward IV Lancaster (1453-1518) King of England 1454-1518, Duke of Burgundy iure uxoris 1480-1518​

1) Mary (1475-) m. Charles VIII of France​

2) Henry V (1477-1506) King of Castile iure uxoris m. 1496 Joanna of Castile​

1) (Among others) Henry VI (1500-) King of Spain 1516-​

3) Edward (1478-1481)​

4) John II (1480-) King of England, Duke of Burgundy m. Elizabeth of Denmark​

5) Catherine (1482-) m. James IV of Scotland​

6) Bonne (1486-)​

7) Philip (1490-)
​

5) Marie (1456 -)m 1472 Nicholas d'Anjou, Duke of Lorraine (1448-1479)​

1) John Duke of Lorraine (1473-)​

2) Philip (1475-)​

 

[Atamolos]

Well, nobody has done this yet, so I might as well.

The Julian Dynasties of the Roman Empire

etc... [snip]

Elaborating on this earlier post, I have a much more thorough family tree worked out. All of these branches follow the male-line, so in the case of interbreeding, the descendants are listed under the family of the father, unless the father married into the Julian family (the direct descendants of Augustus), in which case, they are listed on the Julian family tree under their mother.

Bold - direct descendant of Augustus
Italics - descendant of Livia, Octavia, Agrippa, Marc Antony, or Scribonia, but not Augustus
Underlined - served as Roman emperor or as a usurper

Augustus = Scribonia/Livia Augusta
--->
Julia the Elder = Marcellus/Marcus Agrippa/Tiberius Nero/Julus Antonius
--->
Male-line Julians:
Gaius Augustus = Julia Livilla (d. of Drusus Augustus)

1. Lucius Julius Caesar Felix Pius = Claudia Gemella (d. of Drusus Nero, gd. of OTL's Tiberius)
   1. Lucius Pius = Pomponia
      1. Octavius Julius Caesar
2. Julia Augusta = Drusus Germanicus (see *1)
3. Marcus Julius Caesar Fidelis Rufus = Licinia Crassa Divilla (d. of Crassus Dives, gs. of the triumvir)
   1. Julia Livilla = Cossus Cornelius Lentulus Gaetulicus
      1. Cossus Lentulus
      2. Cossus Lentulus Scipio
      3. Cornelia = Gaius Sentius Saturninus
   2. Julia Rufinia = Gaius Lollius
      1. Lollia = Aulus Vitellius
      2. Marcus Lollius Germanicus = Aemilia Regula

Female-line Julians (Julian collaterals):
Julia the Younger = Aemilius Paullus/Laelius Balbus

1. Lucius Aemilius Paullus Lepidus = Drusilla (d. of Gaius Primus) (*4)
   1. Drusus Aemilius Paullus = Rubellia Paulina
      1. Aemilia Drusilla
      2. Marcus Aemilius Lepidus Drusus
   2. Aemilia Prima = Marcus Otho
2. Aemilia Lepida = Tiberius Vopiscus (see *2)
3. Decimus Balbus Minor = Vibia Postumia
   1. Quintus Baebius Macer = Ostoria
   2. Laelia Balbina = Quintus Haterius Antoninus
   3. Vibia Sabinia = Junius Silanus Torquatus

Lesser Julians and Major Clauduans:
Lucius Caesar Vipsanianus = Aurelia Cotta

1. Julia Aurelia = Tiberius Nero Gemellus
   1. Gaius Claudius Nero = Domitia Longina
      1. Tiberius Claudius Nero = Cassia Longina
      2. Claudia Lepida
2. Gaius Julius Caesar Solus = Julia Livilla (d. of Germanicus)

Drusillan wing (descendants of Germanicus):
Agrippina The Elder = Germanicus Augustus Invictus

1. Drusus Germanicus = Julia Augusta (*1)
   1. Nero Caesar
   2. Julia Drusilla = Servius Caesar/Aulus Caecina
      1. Julia Servilia = Gaius Asinius Marcellus
      2. Germanicus Minor
   3. Agrippina = Gaius Caesar Cassianus (see *7)
2. Tiberius Vopiscus = Aemilia Lepida (*2)
   1. Tiberius Vopiscus Publicola = Junia Silania/Agrippina Prima
      1. Vopiscus Lepidus
      2. Julia Volusia
      3. Publicola The Younger
      4. Gaius Caesar Vopiscus
3. Gaius Primus (OTL's Caligula) = Cornelia Sulla Faustina
   1. Faustus Caesar = Claudia Gemella
   2. Julia Prima = Antonius Agrippa Maximus (see *3)
   3. Marcus Primus = Servilia Rufina/Claudia Gemella
   4. Cornelia Faustina = Appius Claudius Pulcher/Servius Caesar (adopted s. of Drusus)
      1. Publius Clodius = Vipsania (d. of Agrippa Maximus)
         1. Gaius Caesar Appianus
      2. Clodia Faustina = Quintus Caecilius Metellus
      3. Claudia Pulchra = Gaius Silius
   5. Agrippina Prima = Gaius Claudius Marcellus/Tiberius Publicola
      1. Claudia Marcella = Gaius Cassius (see *4)
      2. Claudia Agrippina
      3. Marcus Marcellus
   6. Drusilla Prima = Paullus Lepidus (see *4)
4. Agrippina The Younger = Valerius Asiaticus/Sallustius Crispus/Marcus Cato
   1. Porcia = Fabius Persicus
      1. Fabia Maximina
      2. Paullus Fabius Africanus
      3. Fabia Numantina
5. Livilla = Gaius Solus/Publius Scipio/Gnaeus Domitius
   1. Cornelia Livilla = Publius Quinctilius Varus
      1. Publius Varus
   2. Cornelius Scipio = Scribonia Drusilla
      1. Africanus Cornelius Scipio
      2. Cornelia Sempronia
   3. Cornelia Germanica = Gnaeus Cassius (see *5)
   4. Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus = Poppaea Sabina
      1. Domitia Sabina
      2. Gnaeus Domitius
6. Sextus Caesar
7. Drusilla = Gaius Silius
   1. Silius Nerva = Claudia Pulchra
   2. Silius Pulcher
8. Marcus Caesar = Calpurnia Avilla

Vipsanian wing with Cassii:
Agrippa Postumus = Plautia/Antonia (d. of Tiberius Germanicus)

1. Marcus Aquileanus = Cocceia Nervilla (children adopted out of the family, see *6)
2. Postumia = Gaius Cassius Longinus
   1. Cassia Longina = Lucius Antonius
      1. Gaius Antonius
      2. Antonia Marcella
      3. Julus Antonius
   2. Gaius Cassius = Claudia Marcella (*4)
      1. Cassianus = Agrippina (d. of Drusus Germanicus) (*7)
         1. Cassia Longina = Tiberius Claudius Nero (later Tiberius Julius Caesar)
   3. Lucius Cassius = Vespasia Polla
      1. Cassius Bassus
      2. Cassia Polla
      3. Cassius Severus
      4. Cassius Regulus
      5. Cassia Longina
      6. Cassius Vespasianus
      7. Cassius Pollio
   4. Gnaeus Cassius = Cornelia Germanica (*5)
      1. Cassia Livilla
      2. Gnaeus Cassius Minor
      3. Cornelia Longina
      4. Gaius Cassius Minor
3. Antonius Agrippa = Pompeia
   1. Antonius Agrippa Maximus = Julia Prima (d. of Gaius Primus) (*3)
      1. Vipsania = Publius Clodius
   2. Marcus Aquila (adopted) (*6) = Junia Torquata
      1. Lucius Aquila
      2. Aquilania
      3. Postumia Minor

EDIT: descendants of Octavia and Livia to reflect how heavily these three families intermarried ITTL

Livia Augusta = Tiberius Claudius Nero/Augustus
-->

1. Tiberius Claudius Nero = Vipsania/Julia The Elder
   1. Drusus Nero = Valeria Messalina
      1. Tiberius Gemellus = Julia Aurelia (their descendants are on the Julian tree)
      2. Claudia Gemella = Lucius Julius Caesar Felix Pius (refer to the Julian tree)
2. Drusus Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus = Antonia Minor

1. Germanicus Invictus = Agrippina The Elder (refer back to the Julian tree)
2. Livilla = Gaius Augustus (refer back to the Julian tree)
3. Tiberius The Elder = Domitia Lepida
   1. Antonia = Agrippa Postumus (refer back)
   2. Drusus Julius Caesar Livius Germanicus = Valeria Catula/Scribonia Drusilla
      1. Tiberius Livius Drusus

Octavia Minor = Marcus Marcellus/Antonius (triumvir)
-->

1. Claudia Marcella Maior = Marcus Agrippa/Julus Antonius
   1. Lucius Antonius = Cassia Longina (refer back to Julian tree)
2. Claudia Marcella Minor = Messalla Appianus/Paullus Lepidus/Messalinus
   1. Claudia Pulchra = Quinctilius Varus
      1. Quinctilius Varus Minor = Cornelia Livilla
   2. Messalla Barbatus = Domitia The Elder
      1. Valeria Messalina = Drusus Nero (refer back to Claudian tree)
      2. Valerius Messalla Corvinus = Claudia Agrippina (refer back to Julian tree)
   3. Aemilius Regulus
   4. Valeria Messalina = Vipstanius Gallus
3. Marcellus = Julia The Elder
4. Antonia The Elder = Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus
   1. Domitia The Elder = Messalla Barbatus (see above)
   2. Domitia Lepida = Tiberius The Elder (see above)
   3. Gnaeus Domitius = Livilla (refer back to Julian tree)
5. Antonia The Younger = Drusus Augustus (refer back to Claudian tree)

 

[WillVictoria]

WI Henry V marries Anne Mortimer to solve any potential succession squabbles, and Catherine of France after Anne dies

Henry V (b.1386 r. 1413 d.1429) m. a) Anne Mortimer (b.1390 m.1408 d.1411), b) Catherine of France (b.1401 m.1420 d.1437)

1. a) Mary (1409-1412)
2. a) Henry VI of England (1410 - 1474) m. Agnes of Burgandy (1407 - 1476)
   1. stillborn boy (1426)
   2. Anne (1430 - 1483)
   3. Agnes (1432 - 1435)
   4. Henry (1434 - 1438)
   5. Margaret (1437 - 1465)
   6. Mary (1439 - 1512)
   7. John II of England (1441 - 1476)
3. a) Eleanor (1411 - 1443) m. John IV, Duke of Brabant (1403 - 1430)
   1. John V, Duke of Brabant (1428 - 1498)
   2. Antony (1430 - 1480)
4. b) Edward I of France (1421 - 1506) m. Margaret Stewart (1424 - 1480)
   1. Catherine (1440- 1506)
   2. Margaret (1444)
   3. Edward (1446 - 1449)
   4. Henry (1449 - 1469)
   5. James (1453 - 1459)
   6. Charles (1458 - 1490)
5. b) Catherine (1422 - 1434)
6. b) stillborn girl (1427)
7. b) Charles (1429 - 1466) m. Beatriz of Portugal (1430-1506)
   1. stillborn daughter (1448)
   2. Isabel (1450 - 1457)
   3. Beatrice (1453 - 1457)
   4. Catherine (1455 - 1463)
   5. Charles (1458 - 1465)
   6. Henry (1462 - 1516)

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Ursula was a wealthy heiress and the only daughter of Margaret Pole, 8th Countess of Salisbury.

Uh, no she wasn't. She had FOUR brothers, so she'd be heiress to zip. Plus, until Henry VIII's reign, the Poles were poor (so poor that Henry VII had to pay for Richard Pole's funeral). It was only in Henry VIII's reign that Margaret of Clarence was granted the earldom of Salisbury along with the other estates. And until Henry has a son of his own, Edmund is going to be considered king-in-waiting and as such might get a second tier foreign princess (not Eleonore of Austria or anything, but someone presumably more important than Ursula Pole)

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Nicolas would later, after Mary’s death have his titles elevated to Prince and then Duke of Mercœur. He was second son of Antoine, Duke of Lorraine and Renée de Bourbon. Henry II of France in honour of her status as a descendent of Philip IV of France, created the pair as princes du sang

Uh no, Henri CAN'T AFAIK. That'd be like Queen Victoria creating a prince of Prussia/the Netherlands as a prince of the blood in England by virtue of their descent from George I/II. Mercoeur descends from Philippe IV on the wrong side (distaff line), and thus WOULDN'T be created as a FRENCH prince du sang. Hell, Caterina de Medici/Charles IX/Henri III (ICR which one) had the États-Généraux name the duc de Longueville as legitimate and WITH succession rights in the 1570s should the main Valois go extinct. Everyone politely ignored that scrap of paper when 1589 rolled around

 

[Jonathan]

Uh, no she wasn't. She had FOUR brothers, so she'd be heiress to zip. Plus, until Henry VIII's reign, the Poles were poor (so poor that Henry VII had to pay for Richard Pole's funeral). It was only in Henry VIII's reign that Margaret of Clarence was granted the earldom of Salisbury along with the other estates. And until Henry has a son of his own, Edmund is going to be considered king-in-waiting and as such might get a second tier foreign princess (not Eleonore of Austria or anything, but someone presumably more important than Ursula Pole)

As a member of the royal family, as a grand-daughter of George, Duke of Clarence, brother of two Yorkist Kings Edward IV and Richard III. A close cousin to the Henry VIII (her grandmother Edith St John was half sister to his grandmother, Margaret Beaufort)
Ursula’s marriage was keenly debated. At one point the Duke of Milan was a possible contender, IOTL a match with Henry Stafford, son of the Duke of Buckingham, was suggested by Cardinal Wolsey. ITTL Cardinal Wolsey suggested this tie to keep the families close, as well as stop other families having Plantagenet blood.

The wealthy heiress is written on most sites I have visited about her as heir to the throne.

Which foreign royal would you suggest for him?
- Beatriz of Portugal
- Susanna of Bavaria-Munich
- Mary, of Austria
- Catherine of Austria

I just believe that having a close English bride is better than not especially when he is expected to be replaced by the sons of his brother.
Similar to other brothers of kings:
- Richard III marrying Anne Neville
- George marrying Isabel Neville
- King John marriage Isabella, Countess of Gloucester

Uh no, Henri CAN'T AFAIK. That'd be like Queen Victoria creating a prince of Prussia/the Netherlands as a prince of the blood in England by virtue of their descent from George I/II. Mercoeur descends from Philippe IV on the wrong side (distaff line), and thus WOULDN'T be created as a FRENCH prince du sang. Hell, Caterina de Medici/Charles IX/Henri III (ICR which one) had the États-Généraux name the duc de Longueville as legitimate and WITH succession rights in the 1570s should the main Valois go extinct. Everyone politely ignored that scrap of paper when 1589 rolled around

Would it not be a treaty issue so as not to lower the rank of an English Princess, with French royal blood?
French titles always confuse me, but I am happy for people to teach me the right ways.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Would it not be a treaty issue so as not to lower the rank of an English Princess, with French royal blood?
French titles always confuse me, but I am happy for people to teach me the right ways.

Lorraine wasn't part of France at that point, however, the dukedom of Mercoeur was in the Auvergne and given to Nicolas by right of his mother being a Bourbon. Unless you wish to replace Nicolas with his brother, the duke of Lorraine (either Kristina of Denmark's Sforza husband lives longer, or she marries one of the other options proposed for her - the duke of Albany, the duke of Cleves, Ippolito and Alessandro de Medici, the duke of Bavaria-Landshut or the Prince of Orange (with whom she was in love)) might make a better option for Mary. François wed a Habsburg niece OTL, I don't see why a Tudor cousin of the emperor would be much different.

I just believe that having a close English bride is better than not especially when he is expected to be replaced by the sons of his brother.

All the candidates mentioned married heiresses. And in all three cases, the king had a child/heir already (Elizabeth of York, Geoffrey, duke of Brittany and his children). Unless Henry VIII plans to create Edmund, earl of Warwick and Salisbury instead of Lady Pole, Ursula isn't an heiress to anything unless all her brothers die with no issue.
As to Edmund's marriage, he's born in 1499, which means his marriage will be arranged by Henry VIII. Since Lady Pole was close to both Henry VIII and Katherine of Aragon, a match isn't unlikely. However, Edmund's first serious marriage consideration will come when he's 12 (1511). And likely, it will be vexed by the birth then death of the New Years' Boy, since one minute, Henry VIII might agree to the Pole match because he has an heir, and the next, scotch it because his son dies. Henry might start fishing around for foreign alliances with his brother as bait, although each doomed pregnancy might delay things. So that by the time the Princess Mary is born in 1516, Edmund might still be a 17yo bachelor. If this is the case, I could see him being married off at home. However, Henry's low on political capital to use in negotiations with foreign states (Mary's a child, and Mary Snr has just married the duke of Suffolk, taking her off the board). So he might consent to a second tier princess (depending on which bloc - Valois or Habsburg-Trastamara) is blowing his skirt up that week) like Susanne of Bavaria, a Navarrese princess if one is available, the widowed Germaine de Foix (assuming she and her step-grandson don't get jiggy and she winds up preggers). Beatriz of Portugal might be an option, but I think both Maria and Katharina of Austria will be a bit much. The Habsburgs have no proof that Katherine of Aragon won't die before Henry VIII and he'll remarry and have a son. Dorothea of Denmark (OTL duchess of Prussia) is another option. She was considered for Richard de la Pole, Earl of Suffolk, OTL.

 

[isabella]

As a member of the royal family, as a grand-daughter of George, Duke of Clarence, brother of two Yorkist Kings Edward IV and Richard III. A close cousin to the Henry VIII (her grandmother Edith St John was half sister to his grandmother, Margaret Beaufort)
Ursula’s marriage was keenly debated. At one point the Duke of Milan was a possible contender, IOTL a match with Henry Stafford, son of the Duke of Buckingham, was suggested by Cardinal Wolsey. ITTL Cardinal Wolsey suggested this tie to keep the families close, as well as stop other families having Plantagenet blood.

The wealthy heiress is written on most sites I have visited about her as heir to the throne.

Which foreign royal would you suggest for him?
- Beatriz of Portugal
- Susanna of Bavaria-Munich
- Mary, of Austria
- Catherine of Austria

I just believe that having a close English bride is better than not especially when he is expected to be replaced by the sons of his brother.
Similar to other brothers of kings:
- Richard III marrying Anne Neville
- George marrying Isabel Neville
- King John marriage Isabella, Countess of Gloucester

George’s wedding to Isabel Neville was both without Edward IV’s consent and against his will so is not a good example...


About your suggestions for Edmund the only one acceptable is Suzanne of Bavaria as the Habsburg’s girls were too high for him (plus Mary was already engaged before her first birthday) and Manuel also would like to marry Beatriz to some ruler/heir not to the younger brother of the English King.
As @Kellan Sullivan said a good list is formed by Suzanne of Bavaria, a princess from Navarre (but who really?), some junior French princess like Madeleine de la Tour d’Auvergne (born 1498, cousin and sister-in-law of the Duke of Albany) or maybe Philiberta of Savoy (born 1498, maternal half-aunt of Francis I of France) or the daughter/sister/niece of some german ruler.

About local matches Ursula Pole is at the top of the list (likely either Salisbury or Warwick will be restored to Ursula and Edmund and not to Margaret). Alternatives are a Courtenay (daughter of Catherine of York) or some Percy, Howard or Stafford girl (a surviving daughter of Norfolk by Anne of York would be great) or some aristocratic (and possibly titled) heiress.
Germaine of Foix is way too old for Edmund


Pretty unlikely who Edmund will be already married at Mary’s birth as he will not be married before 16th birthday and likely around his 20th

 

[Deleted member 107125]

Hungary accepts Lucien Bonaparte as King, in a world where France wins the Peninsular Wars and keeps the trust of the Spanish. Thus, the Hungarians are more receptive of him as King.

• Lajos III (French: Lucien Bonaparte, Italian: Luciano Buonaparte, Hungarian: bonaparte Lajos) (1809-1840)
  • Karoly IV (French: Charles Lucien Bonaparte, Hungarian: bonaparte Karoly) (1840-1857)
    • Joszef I (1857-1865)
    • Lajos IV (1865-1895)
    • Karoly IV (1895-1899)

Succeeded by his cousin Roland Bonaparte, who took the title of Rabán of Hungary

• Rabán I (1899-1924)
  • Maria II (1924-1962)
    • Péter I (1962-1980)
    • Princess Jenä
      • King Karoly VI (1980-)

 

[wwbgdiaslt]

What If ... Edward IV doesn't become infatuated with Elisabeth Woodville and thus marries one of Louis XI of France's candidates ...

(Kinda ran out of steam towards the end ...)

Edward IV (b. 1442, r. 1461-1483) m. Bona of Savoy (b. 1449-1503)

a) Edward V, prev Prince of Wales/Duke of Cornwall (b. 1469, r. 1483-1494) m. Anne de Mowbray, Duchess of Norfolk (1472-1513)

i) Edward VI, Prince of Wales (b. 1491, r. 1494-1512) - never married
ii) Richard III, prev Duke of Bedford (b. 1492, r. 1512-1555) m. Claude of France (1499-1524)

a) Richard IV, prev Prince of Wales/Duke of Cornwall (b. 1519, r. 1555-1559) m. Anna d'Este (1531-1607)

i) Henry VII, (b. 1550, r. 1559-1588)​

iii) Anne, Countess of Lindisfarne (1494-1546) m. Leonard Grey, 1st Viscount Lindisfarne (1492-1541)

a) Leonard Grey, 2nd Viscount Lindisfarne (1516-1565), Regent for Henry VII (1559-1565)

i) Richard Grey, 3rd Viscount Lindisfarne (1538-1587), Regent got Henry VII (1565-1568)
b) Anne Grey, Abbess of Bermondsey (1520-1600)​

b) John, 1st Duke of York (1472-1510), Regent for Edward VI (1494-1509)
c) Cecily of York (1476-1497)​

 

[VVD0D95]

What If ... Edward IV doesn't become infatuated with Elisabeth Woodville and thus marries one of Louis XI of France's candidates ...

(Kinda ran out of steam towards the end ...)

Edward IV (b. 1442, r. 1461-1483) m. Bona of Savoy (b. 1449-1503)

a) Edward V, prev Prince of Wales/Duke of Cornwall (b. 1469, r. 1483-1494) m. Anne de Mowbray, Duchess of Norfolk (1472-1513)

i) Edward VI, Prince of Wales (b. 1491, r. 1494-1512) - never married
ii) Richard III, prev Duke of Bedford (b. 1492, r. 1512-1555) m. Claude of France (1499-1524)

a) Richard IV, prev Prince of Wales/Duke of Cornwall (b. 1519, r. 1555-1559) m. Anna d'Este (1531-1607)

i) Henry VII, (b. 1550, r. 1559-1588)​

iii) Anne, Countess of Lindisfarne (1494-1546) m. Leonard Grey, 1st Viscount Lindisfarne (1492-1541)

a) Leonard Grey, 2nd Viscount Lindisfarne (1516-1565), Regent for Henry VII (1559-1565)

i) Richard Grey, 3rd Viscount Lindisfarne (1538-1587), Regent got Henry VII (1565-1568)
b) Anne Grey, Abbess of Bermondsey (1520-1600)​

b) John, 1st Duke of York (1472-1510), Regent for Edward VI (1494-1509)
c) Cecily of York (1476-1497)​

What leads to Edward V marrying Anne de Mowbray?

 

[wwbgdiaslt]

What leads to Edward V marrying Anne de Mowbray?

Richard of Shrewsbury was reportedly "married" to her IOTL, so it's a birth around the same time as IOTL Edward V but with his brothers betrothed.

 

[VVD0D95]

Richard of Shrewsbury was reportedly "married" to her IOTL, so it's a birth around the same time as IOTL Edward V but with his brothers betrothed.

Ahh I see

 

[The_Last_Plantagenet]

In 1809, with assistance from Napoleon, Finland is formed into an independent kingdom, forming a neutral state between the Russian Empire and Sweden-Norway. Gustav Mauritz Armfelt is chosen as monarch by the gathered Finnish Estates;

• Gustav I (B.1757, D.1815, R. 1809-1815) m. Hedvig de la Gardie (B.1761 D. 1832)
  • Gustav II (B. 1792, D. 1856, R.1815-1856) m. Vilhelmine of Denmark (B.1808 D. 1884)
  • Alexander I (B.1794, D.1881, R.1856-1881) m. Marie Luise of Hesse-Kassel (B.1814 D.1895)
    • Gustav Constantin, Crown Prince of Finland (B.1845 D.1876) m. Alexandrine of Prussia (B.1842 D.1905
      • Alexander II (B.1874, D. 1939, R. 1881-1939)
      • Frederick I (B. 1875, D.1954, R.1939-1954) m. Elizabeth of Mecklenburg
        • Gustav III (B. 1903, D. 1996, R.1954-1983) m. Sophia of Sweden (B.1911, D.2002)
          • Constantin I (B.1944, R. 1983-Present) m. Luise of Prussia

 

[isabella]

Richard of Shrewsbury was reportedly "married" to her IOTL, so it's a birth around the same time as IOTL Edward V but with his brothers betrothed.

Anne Mowbray was a big heiress so she would be great for a second son but not so much for the heir (who can make a better foreign match)

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

What If ... Edward IV doesn't become infatuated with Elisabeth Woodville and thus marries one of Louis XI of France's candidates ...

(Kinda ran out of steam towards the end ...)

Edward IV (b. 1442, r. 1461-1483) m. Bona of Savoy (b. 1449-1503)

a) Edward V, prev Prince of Wales/Duke of Cornwall (b. 1469, r. 1483-1494) m. Anne de Mowbray, Duchess of Norfolk (1472-1513)

i) Edward VI, Prince of Wales (b. 1491, r. 1494-1512) - never married
ii) Richard III, prev Duke of Bedford (b. 1492, r. 1512-1555) m. Claude of France (1499-1524)

a) Richard IV, prev Prince of Wales/Duke of Cornwall (b. 1519, r. 1555-1559) m. Anna d'Este (1531-1607)

i) Henry VII, (b. 1550, r. 1559-1588)​

iii) Anne, Countess of Lindisfarne (1494-1546) m. Leonard Grey, 1st Viscount Lindisfarne (1492-1541)

a) Leonard Grey, 2nd Viscount Lindisfarne (1516-1565), Regent for Henry VII (1559-1565)

i) Richard Grey, 3rd Viscount Lindisfarne (1538-1587), Regent got Henry VII (1565-1568)
b) Anne Grey, Abbess of Bermondsey (1520-1600)​

b) John, 1st Duke of York (1472-1510), Regent for Edward VI (1494-1509)
c) Cecily of York (1476-1497)​

Couple pointers.
As @isabella mentioned, Anne de Mowbray is not marrying Edward V. Her marrying the duke of York (though why you've named him John IDK - it's an unlikely name in England, given its rarity in English royal namings) makes more sense.
Second, who does TTL Cecily marry? James IV of Scots/duke of Burgundy/prince of the Asturias/dauphin/someone else? Seems unlikely that she, as the only daughter of the king of England would be left unwed by 21yo.
Same for her niece. Anne (daughter of Edward V) is the only daughter of the king of England. She's unlikely to wed abroad. Assuming things there are as OTL, she is admittedly in a pickle as far as grooms are concerned (most being either too old or too young). Christian II of Denmark would be a good option. Or a Scots match if James IV didn't wed her aunt Cecily. No way is she marrying at home. Mary Tudor was an exception (plus, it was her second marriage, after her "duty" was discharged). Before her, the last English princess to wed a subject would've been one of Edward I's daughters (unless we count Isabella of Woodstock's match to Enguerrand de Coucy, who held an English title).
I assume Louis XII must've had a son by Anne of Brittany, since that's the only reason Claude would be allowed to wed to someone not French. Likewise, Richard IV as an only child is as unlikely to wait a decade for his bride to be born as what TTL Richard III is to remain a widower for thirty years after his wife dies.

Hungary accepts Lucien Bonaparte as King, in a world where France wins the Peninsular Wars and keeps the trust of the Spanish. Thus, the Hungarians are more receptive of him as King.

• Lajos III (French: Lucien Bonaparte, Italian: Luciano Buonaparte, Hungarian: bonaparte Lajos) (1809-1840)
  • Karoly IV (French: Charles Lucien Bonaparte, Hungarian: bonaparte Karoly) (1840-1857)
    • Joszef I (1857-1865)
    • Lajos IV (1865-1895)
    • Karoly IV (1895-1899)

Succeeded by his cousin Roland Bonaparte, who took the title of Rabán of Hungary

• Rabán I (1899-1924)
  • Maria II (1924-1962)
    • Péter I (1962-1980)
    • Princess Jenä
      • King Karoly VI (1980-)

Was this actually considered OTL? Since if anyone was likely to get the Hungarian crown, my best bet would've been on the head of the Eszterhazy family. And perhaps avoid the Peninsular War (let Bonaparte be willing to allow Fernando VII to marry his niece (Lucien's daughter)) rather than let the French win it. Since them winning it is hardly likely to let the Spanish be trusting of the French.

In 1809, with assistance from Napoleon, Finland is formed into an independent kingdom, forming a neutral state between the Russian Empire and Sweden-Norway. Gustav Mauritz Armfelt is chosen as monarch by the gathered Finnish Estates;

• Gustav I (B.1757, D.1815, R. 1809-1815) m. Hedvig de la Gardie (B.1761 D. 1832)
  • Gustav II (B. 1792, D. 1856, R.1815-1856) m. Vilhelmine of Denmark (B.1808 D. 1884)
  • Alexander I (B.1794, D.1881, R.1856-1881) m. Marie Luise of Hesse-Kassel (B.1814 D.1895)
    • Gustav Constantin, Crown Prince of Finland (B.1845 D.1876) m. Alexandrine of Prussia (B.1842 D.1905
      • Alexander II (B.1874, D. 1939, R. 1881-1939)
      • Frederick I (B. 1875, D.1954, R.1939-1954) m. Elizabeth of Mecklenburg
        • Gustav III (B. 1903, D. 1996, R.1954-1983) m. Sophia of Sweden (B.1911, D.2002)
          • Constantin I (B.1944, R. 1983-Present) m. Luise of Prussia

Any particular reason that Napoléon would do this? Finland had a grand duke before the war, Gustav IV of Sweden. Stands to reason that he/his son might get more traction than some jumped up nobody like Armfelt (although I confess, Scandinavian history at this point isn't my forte) so maybe this isn't as ASB as it sounds.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Louis XII has younger brother (born in 1464 instead of his sister Anne)

Charles d'Orléans (1464-1496) m. 1487 Joanna de Bourbon-Vendôme (1465-1511)

1) Mary (1488-1556) m. 1503 Vladislaus II of Bohemia and Hungary

1) Louis II (1505-1567) m. 1521 Mary of Austria​

2) Mary (1507-1549) m. 1521 Ferdinand of Austria​

2) Isabella (1489-1548) m. 1506 Ferdinand II of Aragon (1452-1516)

1) John III (1508-1562) King of Aragon 1516-1562 m. 1525 Catherine of Austria (1507-1578)​

2) Isabella (1510-1548) m. 1530 Louis, Duke of Beja (1506-1555)
​

3) Charles IX (1492-1541) King of France 1515-1541 m. a) 1514 Claude of France (1499-1524) b) 1528 Philippa of Savoy* (1511-1576)

1a) Charles (1516-1538) Dauphin of France m. 1537 Mary of Portugal (1520-1577)**​

2a) Louis (1518-1579) Duke of Orleans, Duke of Milan 1541-1579 m. 1540 Anna of Lorraine (1522-1567)​

3a) Joanna (1519)​

4a) Mary (1521-1532)​

5a) John (1523-1524)​

6b) Charlotte (1531)​

7b) Philip (1534-1588) Duke of Anjou, m. Anne de Longueville (1537-1609)​

8b) Anne (1536-1588)​

9b) Margaret (1538-1540)​

10b) Francis (1541-1599)​

4) Joanna (1494-1550) m. 1512 Francis d'Angoulême (1494-1547)

1) Charles (1515-1569) m. a) 1535 Mary de Bourbon-Vendôme (1515-1538) b) 1540 Louise de Guise (1520-1582)​

2) Margaret (1517-1582) m. 1536 James V (1512-1540) King of Scotland​

3) Louise (1520-1529)​

4) Francoise (1527-1578) m. 1545 John IV of Auvergne (1526-1570)​

5) Charlotte (1497-1499)

* Daughter of Philibert II of Savoy and Margaret of Austria
** Daughter of John III of Portugal and Eleanor of Austria

Few others also are fictional (Longueville and d'Auvergne are affected by POD-Jean III d'Auvergne has his wife "stolen" by Charles d'Orleans while François 'Dunois' de Longueville could marry Anne de Foix ITTL)

ITTL France does better than IOTL until death of Charles IX due to weaker Habsburgs (who rule only in Castile) and is able to keep Milan, but after Charles IX dies French throne goes to his underaged grandson, born from his older son Dauphin Charles, who predeceased him, while younger son of Charles IX, Louis Duke of Orleans inherits also Milan and is source of internal instability of France, challenging power of the King.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Posthumous daughter of Juan de Asturias and Margaret of Austria lives (and is named Juana after deceased father), she is married to her Portuguese cousin João III. Marriage of João and Juana does not last very long-queen Juana dies in childbirth in 1525. Her oldest son Alfonso inherits thrones of Castile and Aragon, João is regent. But Alfonso is sicky child and soon dies, just like his brother Manuel. João is concerned about survival of his line. He marries again, this time with Charlotte of France, daughter of Francis I of France (who ITTL survives childhood). João's concerns are justified-his last son by Juana dies aged 11 in 1536. Due to grief after loss of his three older sons João fell ill and dies in 1538. He is succeeded in Portugal by his son born from second marriage, meanwhile, after death of brothers, his daughter Maria inherits Castilian throne. She marries her uncle Luis, Duke of Beja, their descendants start Spanish line of House of Aviz.

John III (1502-1538) King of Castile iure uxoris 1516-1525, King of Portugal 1521-1538 m. a) 1516 Joanna I of Castile (1498-1525) b) 1533 Charlotte of France (1516-1569)

1a) Alfonso XII (1520-1527) King of Castile/Spain 1525-1527

2a) Manuel I (1522-1529) King of Castile/Spain 1527-1529

3a) Maria I (1523-1586) Queen of Castile* m. 1537 Louis I (1506-1555) Duke of Beja, King of Castile iure uxoris, King of Aragon

4a) John IV (1525-1536) King of Castile/Spain 1529-1536

5b) John IV (1537-1591) King of Portugal 1538-1591

6b) Francis (1539-1579) Duke of Coimbra

*Due to semi-salic laws of Kingdom of Aragon she is not ruling Queen of Aragon. I'm not sure how would in work exactly. I guess João also would be King of Aragon on his own right, choosen by Aragonese estates to be king, due to fact that Aragonese succession exclude females.

Uptade is coming. Some info would be added.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Catholic Monarchs have more sons:

Isabella I (1451-1508) Queen of Castile 1474-1508 m. 1468 Ferdinand II (1452-1516) King of Aragon 1578-1516

1) Isabella (1470-1522) m. 1490 Afonso VI of Portugal* (1475-1525) King of Portugal 1495-1525

2) John III (1475-1529) King of Castile 1508-1529, King of Aragon 1516-1529, m. 1497 Margaret of Austria (1480-1538)

3) Ferdinand (1478-1497)

4) Joanna (1479-1555) m. 1496 Philip Habsburg, Duke of Burgundy (1478-1511)

5) Maria (1482-1536) m. 1501 Arthur I (1485-1526) King of England 1509-1526

6) Alfonso III (1485-1541) King of Naples 1515-1541 m. 1511 Isabella of Naples** (1497-1564)

*If Ferdinand really was behind death of Afonso he has less reasons to kill him ITTL with Castilian succession more secure.

*Daughter of Ferdinand II of Naples (who lives longer ITTL) and Joanna of Naples.

Also, Isabella lives a bit longer due to less stress. Maria of Castile is older than Catalina was IOTL, but having more brothers she is even further from the throne than Catalina was, so she could be send to England.