I wonder if cars are being made yet. Also, is England democratic or still a parliamentary monarchy? Also,all these houses marrying and fighting each other is reminding me of Game of Thrones. House Bourbon is a rival to House Romanov, with House Satsuma and House Chuan as smaller houses and House Habsberg being a weak house after the Great War.
In this country , it is good to kill an admiral from time to time
- Thread starter Antony444
- Start date
Cousins and Enemies (Chile and Peru 1902-1910)
Tens of thousands Europeans had been perfectly willing to ignore there was a war ravaging South America, but it didn’t mean it had not been incredibly destructive. There was, however, one major difference with several other continents. The Entente had been defeated in this theatre, or depending on the perspective and the person speaking, it had not won. French Guyana was no more, and the Empire of Brazil was really a ghost of what had been pre-war Portuguese Brazil.
Yet the fiercest and loudest critics of the UPNG when the casualties of the war for South America entered the debate were Peruvians.
In appearance, the political leaders of Lima had every reason to be satisfied. They had now an extremely large facade on the Pacific Ocean, plenty of empty space for their population to develop, the Blanco Directorate of sinister memory was no more, and they had an advantage in numbers over their Chilean enemies in the south. The Peruvian population in 1902 was of 4.5 million, for 3 millions of Chileans. They could also count on fast reinforcements from Bogota, as new railroads allowed for easy travel where before travel on foot was the only solution.
But the fact remained: Peru was constantly in the shadow of the UPNG, and it wasn’t going to change any time soon. For too many things, the Peruvians were totally independent on their northern ‘benefactors’, and the industrial powerhouses of the Federalist country had absolutely no reluctance to encourage and increase their power where Peru was concerned. More than two-thirds of the pre-war steel production had come from the UPNG. Most of the naval expertise relied on Granadan-built ships, trained sailors, and harbour-funded infrastructure.
This situation had already created many tensions in the pre-Great War society. Unfortunately for Peru, the mobilisation of tens of thousands men to fight against the Chileans made sure the debts they owed to their allies was one that couldn’t be reimbursed in a generation. The UPNG was dominating the Peruvian market in many sectors, going from new agriculture material to the clothing of the Peruvian army. It was always far cheaper and easier to buy Granadan, and on the coast where the majority of the population was concentrated, the UPNG culture of profit and the traditions began to be firmly rooted in. It of course increased the divide between the middle classes of the west and the agricultural, impoverished communities of the south. And as the post-war baby boom made sure the population overcame the losses of the world-spanning conflict, it was the population of Spanish and immigrant ancestry which profited from the UPNG’s largesse. Not the ancient descendents of the Inca.
The popularity of the Granadans on Peruvian territories continuously decreased for the latter part of the decade. The great nation which had managed to expel the French from Guyana and become the giant of South America was many things, but humble at the idea of not profiting from its victory was not on the list. The Peruvian economy was becoming more a secondary market of the UPNG, and in the mean time, the common Peruvian had the example of Chile to watch under his nose.
Chile was not a puppet of the Great Powers. True, its uniforms and weapons were so well-divided between English and French equipment that a common joke of the period was to mistake Chileans for French trying to disguise themselves as English.
But Chile’s economy was under the control of a Chilean government. Assuredly, it owned a lot of money to Paris, but it was independent. The French industrialists and military commanders wanted a country to oppose the former Central Alliance in South America, and since the Spanish were not suitable for the task, the Chileans were the best option they had in their hands. True, the nitrate trade was progressively losing its importance with the ability of the European nations to produce it by chemical processes, but Chile remained an economic partner and the best opportunity to punish the UPNG should the occasion presents itself.
The problem of course, was to attract enough immigrants to rebuild rapidly from the ravage of the Great War. And here the Chileans had more problems than the Peruvians. Their best allies an ocean away or more, the men and women of Valparaiso knew they could only rely on themselves to preserve their liberties and their ways of life. The army and the navy augmented their effectives once more on 1909.
It went without saying that whatever their feelings where the Great Powers were concerned, the diplomatic relationships between Peru and Chile were as close to non-existent as two countries at peace could make it possible. There were ambassadors in function, but these men rarely left the grounds of their embassy. The destruction of the lands torn apart by decades of war was always rejected on the other. And in each language, the name of the Peruvian or Chilean neighbour was a curse. If four years of total war had been supposed to discourage these two nations from further atrocities, force was to admit it had utterly failed...
Tens of thousands Europeans had been perfectly willing to ignore there was a war ravaging South America, but it didn’t mean it had not been incredibly destructive. There was, however, one major difference with several other continents. The Entente had been defeated in this theatre, or depending on the perspective and the person speaking, it had not won. French Guyana was no more, and the Empire of Brazil was really a ghost of what had been pre-war Portuguese Brazil.
Yet the fiercest and loudest critics of the UPNG when the casualties of the war for South America entered the debate were Peruvians.
In appearance, the political leaders of Lima had every reason to be satisfied. They had now an extremely large facade on the Pacific Ocean, plenty of empty space for their population to develop, the Blanco Directorate of sinister memory was no more, and they had an advantage in numbers over their Chilean enemies in the south. The Peruvian population in 1902 was of 4.5 million, for 3 millions of Chileans. They could also count on fast reinforcements from Bogota, as new railroads allowed for easy travel where before travel on foot was the only solution.
But the fact remained: Peru was constantly in the shadow of the UPNG, and it wasn’t going to change any time soon. For too many things, the Peruvians were totally independent on their northern ‘benefactors’, and the industrial powerhouses of the Federalist country had absolutely no reluctance to encourage and increase their power where Peru was concerned. More than two-thirds of the pre-war steel production had come from the UPNG. Most of the naval expertise relied on Granadan-built ships, trained sailors, and harbour-funded infrastructure.
This situation had already created many tensions in the pre-Great War society. Unfortunately for Peru, the mobilisation of tens of thousands men to fight against the Chileans made sure the debts they owed to their allies was one that couldn’t be reimbursed in a generation. The UPNG was dominating the Peruvian market in many sectors, going from new agriculture material to the clothing of the Peruvian army. It was always far cheaper and easier to buy Granadan, and on the coast where the majority of the population was concentrated, the UPNG culture of profit and the traditions began to be firmly rooted in. It of course increased the divide between the middle classes of the west and the agricultural, impoverished communities of the south. And as the post-war baby boom made sure the population overcame the losses of the world-spanning conflict, it was the population of Spanish and immigrant ancestry which profited from the UPNG’s largesse. Not the ancient descendents of the Inca.
The popularity of the Granadans on Peruvian territories continuously decreased for the latter part of the decade. The great nation which had managed to expel the French from Guyana and become the giant of South America was many things, but humble at the idea of not profiting from its victory was not on the list. The Peruvian economy was becoming more a secondary market of the UPNG, and in the mean time, the common Peruvian had the example of Chile to watch under his nose.
Chile was not a puppet of the Great Powers. True, its uniforms and weapons were so well-divided between English and French equipment that a common joke of the period was to mistake Chileans for French trying to disguise themselves as English.
But Chile’s economy was under the control of a Chilean government. Assuredly, it owned a lot of money to Paris, but it was independent. The French industrialists and military commanders wanted a country to oppose the former Central Alliance in South America, and since the Spanish were not suitable for the task, the Chileans were the best option they had in their hands. True, the nitrate trade was progressively losing its importance with the ability of the European nations to produce it by chemical processes, but Chile remained an economic partner and the best opportunity to punish the UPNG should the occasion presents itself.
The problem of course, was to attract enough immigrants to rebuild rapidly from the ravage of the Great War. And here the Chileans had more problems than the Peruvians. Their best allies an ocean away or more, the men and women of Valparaiso knew they could only rely on themselves to preserve their liberties and their ways of life. The army and the navy augmented their effectives once more on 1909.
It went without saying that whatever their feelings where the Great Powers were concerned, the diplomatic relationships between Peru and Chile were as close to non-existent as two countries at peace could make it possible. There were ambassadors in function, but these men rarely left the grounds of their embassy. The destruction of the lands torn apart by decades of war was always rejected on the other. And in each language, the name of the Peruvian or Chilean neighbour was a curse. If four years of total war had been supposed to discourage these two nations from further atrocities, force was to admit it had utterly failed...
Sébastien
Kicked
I don't know why but I fear that ITTL Brazil will again make the worst choice possible at the worst moment. Btw, I prefer to be in the case of Chile, at least this way, you still have pride. Of course, it also show that the common people of the UPNG still haven't see past their pride (they did conquer French Guyana) and realize their situation. The Peruvian could decide to arrive "late" on the battlefield next time.
Welcome back!
So, if I understand correctly, the French are still popular in Chile, but Peru is getting annoyed with the UPNG?
Thanks. I was a bit busy with other stories of my own, including the Weaver Option.
Pretty much. The Entente is not the only alliance to have massive problems in the aftermath of the Great War.
Now, now. All similarities with OTL are purely a coincidence...(can't believe I can say that with a straight face).
Brazil...they are in an ocean of trouble, and it's not getting better soon...changing sides in the middle of the biggest world war ever is really, really not something the Great Powers (most notably France and Russia) will ever forget this century.
But yes, for the moment the UPNG is flying high on the fact there have been the only ones to win against the French Empire...forgetting a bit the exact circumstances hwich made the victory possible in the first place.
Hum, the UPNG, for the moment is not at risk from the French. The Empress is not going to declare a war for the sake of Guyana, and as long the Granadans don't attack Singapore or any of their bastions in the East Indies, their affairs in Asia are not France's problem. For the short-term, the UPNG is safe, Chile is not going to be on their southern frontier anytime soon.
Since the UPNG now has the Philippines and Celebes which will soon be integrated in a few years, how many people does the UPNG have? Better yet, how many did it have both before and after annexing the Philippines and Celebes?
Sigh...you can't wait for the updates of each nation, do you?
The numbers below are estimates, I may refine them in a few weeks.
UPNG pre-war: 17 million
UPNG 1902: 24.5 million (18.5 million South America, 5 million Philippines, 1 million Celebes)
Thank you so much! And I'm very sorry, but I'm a numbers person.
Wow, only 17 million pre war? They must have had some giant balls to fight France. Though how were they able to make so many ships with such a small population? On chapter 76, you said that the UPNG were able to make hundreds of ships.
Well, remember they had an alliance to divert plenty of attention away from them...plus of course the only close territory France had in South America was Guyana. It's not exactly Quebec...
And of course, they had plenty of immigrants and money from the moment they opened the Panama canal. Extremely lucrative business, these fees...
I am the Maharaja (Bengal 1902-1910)
In appearance, Bengal had accomplished most of its objectives during the Great War. Its neighbour on the eastern border, Burma, had outright been annexed when previous conflicts had only managed to weaken it. The Ghurkhas to the west, while still standing firm, were still deprived an access to the Indian Ocean and the list of their allies was extremely short. In the extreme east, Singapore and Vietnam had completely demobilised their forces due to severe financial hardships. Tibet’s army was a non-entity at the best of times, and had only a defensive purpose.
The big problem, however, was China. Yes, on paper the Bengali had not much to fear from the Chinese hordes, with plenty of mountain ranges protecting their northern borders. On the other hand, there had been clashes between the Burmese and the Chinese during the Great War, and while they had been more sporadic incursions, the threat was not one which could be neglected. The armies of Chuan China were vast, more and more equipped to modern standards, and increasingly determined to evict the people they saw as foreigners from foreign soil. Bengal wasn’t on the list yet, but the strategists of Calcutta were not spending hours dreaming about eternal peace. The moment what was left of Wu China collapsed – and the 1900s saw it come dramatically close from this point – and Southern China reunified the Empire, there would be few opponents for the Emperor of Guangzhou to fight against. In the north there was the Empire of Russia, but the Russians were a massive beast, and no one sane would lightly go to war with them. There also was Japan, but the new Shogun dynasty could abandon Chosen and fight a naval conflict. The same was true of California, which occupied Taiwan. No, once the Wu were brought back into the fold, the Bengali knew there were three nations in the south which could attract the hunger of the Chinese dragon: Vietnam, Tibet, and Bengal itself. The good news was that Bengal was without question the most powerful military and economically of the three. It was also quite defensible and the Bengali had maintained their alliance with France.
The big problem came from the leadership. King Jafar abdicated mere months after the end of the Great War, the rumours about his mental health having in the end some truth in them. He retired to an isolated temple in the middle of nowhere and never came back. This left his eldest son, the impulsive and – probably – megalomaniac Rao in control of Bengal. On the positive side, the new king was not stupid and knew it was the membership in the Entente which had allowed Bengal to become as powerful as it currently stood. By 1902, Bengal was a realm of 91 million souls, and the population by all predictions was going to massively increase in the decades to come. No, Rao had no wish to upset the status quo of this alliance. Nor had he developed the paranoia his favourite Generals were going to assassinate him. The Bengali army received the new cannons, armoured cars and prototype planes it wanted. The best commanders received elite regiments to parry a surprise Chinese or Ghurkha thrust into the heartlands.
Unfortunately, for other matters, Rao had opinions which often made his ministers wonder if he was not a bit insane. The father had not been shy spreading his genetic inheritance around, but the son was even more ‘generous’ in this department. This was after he massacred his half-brothers in a series of bloody executions and parodies of justice.
By 1903, it was becoming evident Rao was encouraging the cult of his personality. While the manuals and the books for young Bengali were completely updated to reflect the new innovations from Europe and Asia, there were large paragraphs which were pure propaganda too.
The common people in the streets for a few years ignored the...strange behaviour of their monarch. Harbours and industrial centres had handled extremely well the transition back from total war, and the unemployment rates and the poverty levels were at an all times low. The principal cities of the Kingdom were building along what foreign architects took to call the ‘Rebirth neo-Bengali model’, an idealised mix between the old and the new.
They still raised a few eyebrows of consternation when in 1905, Rao I proclaimed himself ‘Maharaja Rao I of the Sky and the Seas, Sovereign of All He Watches, Sublime Emperor of the Ivory Realm’. The protocol at court was more and more extravagant, and some nobles and high-level functionaries began to fear their sovereign had actually lost his mind. They were not reassured at all when the ‘Sublime Maharaja’ wondered if he was a God or not.
Unavoidably, a few royal cousins began to spread dissent and made travels outside Bengal’s frontiers to see if other nations would look kindly on a change of leadership. Too bad for them, France was not. For all the drawbacks of the French-Bengali alliance – like critics on the dreadful fate reserved to Burmese peasants who did not submit to Bengal’s rule – this kingdom was a loyal ally and was at the same time a shield and a sword for the Far East. The two allies were not in complete accord, but which nation compact truly was? Rao I may take five or ten wives in a single ceremony, and bathe himself in cow milk twice per day to ‘ascend to a high degree of spirituality’, France and what remained of the Entente could tolerate his eccentricities.
Still, many diplomats wondered how long it would last. In 1906, Maharaja Rao I decided to name his favourite tiger as Prime Minister, declaring that since Admiral Suffren had been granted such a noble animal in his career, obviously it was going to excel in his functions.
One hundred days later, the supreme – and self-proclaimed divine – ruler of Bengal died from a fever, though many suspected poison or a far less natural cause of deaths. With dozens of sons ready to claim the throne, a mini-civil war was fought, culminating in the ‘Night of the Five Jafars’ and the subsequent coronation of Jafar VII on March 4 1907.
Bengal had survived the post-war era, now it remained to see how it was going to forge its own culture and ambitions...
In appearance, Bengal had accomplished most of its objectives during the Great War. Its neighbour on the eastern border, Burma, had outright been annexed when previous conflicts had only managed to weaken it. The Ghurkhas to the west, while still standing firm, were still deprived an access to the Indian Ocean and the list of their allies was extremely short. In the extreme east, Singapore and Vietnam had completely demobilised their forces due to severe financial hardships. Tibet’s army was a non-entity at the best of times, and had only a defensive purpose.
The big problem, however, was China. Yes, on paper the Bengali had not much to fear from the Chinese hordes, with plenty of mountain ranges protecting their northern borders. On the other hand, there had been clashes between the Burmese and the Chinese during the Great War, and while they had been more sporadic incursions, the threat was not one which could be neglected. The armies of Chuan China were vast, more and more equipped to modern standards, and increasingly determined to evict the people they saw as foreigners from foreign soil. Bengal wasn’t on the list yet, but the strategists of Calcutta were not spending hours dreaming about eternal peace. The moment what was left of Wu China collapsed – and the 1900s saw it come dramatically close from this point – and Southern China reunified the Empire, there would be few opponents for the Emperor of Guangzhou to fight against. In the north there was the Empire of Russia, but the Russians were a massive beast, and no one sane would lightly go to war with them. There also was Japan, but the new Shogun dynasty could abandon Chosen and fight a naval conflict. The same was true of California, which occupied Taiwan. No, once the Wu were brought back into the fold, the Bengali knew there were three nations in the south which could attract the hunger of the Chinese dragon: Vietnam, Tibet, and Bengal itself. The good news was that Bengal was without question the most powerful military and economically of the three. It was also quite defensible and the Bengali had maintained their alliance with France.
The big problem came from the leadership. King Jafar abdicated mere months after the end of the Great War, the rumours about his mental health having in the end some truth in them. He retired to an isolated temple in the middle of nowhere and never came back. This left his eldest son, the impulsive and – probably – megalomaniac Rao in control of Bengal. On the positive side, the new king was not stupid and knew it was the membership in the Entente which had allowed Bengal to become as powerful as it currently stood. By 1902, Bengal was a realm of 91 million souls, and the population by all predictions was going to massively increase in the decades to come. No, Rao had no wish to upset the status quo of this alliance. Nor had he developed the paranoia his favourite Generals were going to assassinate him. The Bengali army received the new cannons, armoured cars and prototype planes it wanted. The best commanders received elite regiments to parry a surprise Chinese or Ghurkha thrust into the heartlands.
Unfortunately, for other matters, Rao had opinions which often made his ministers wonder if he was not a bit insane. The father had not been shy spreading his genetic inheritance around, but the son was even more ‘generous’ in this department. This was after he massacred his half-brothers in a series of bloody executions and parodies of justice.
By 1903, it was becoming evident Rao was encouraging the cult of his personality. While the manuals and the books for young Bengali were completely updated to reflect the new innovations from Europe and Asia, there were large paragraphs which were pure propaganda too.
The common people in the streets for a few years ignored the...strange behaviour of their monarch. Harbours and industrial centres had handled extremely well the transition back from total war, and the unemployment rates and the poverty levels were at an all times low. The principal cities of the Kingdom were building along what foreign architects took to call the ‘Rebirth neo-Bengali model’, an idealised mix between the old and the new.
They still raised a few eyebrows of consternation when in 1905, Rao I proclaimed himself ‘Maharaja Rao I of the Sky and the Seas, Sovereign of All He Watches, Sublime Emperor of the Ivory Realm’. The protocol at court was more and more extravagant, and some nobles and high-level functionaries began to fear their sovereign had actually lost his mind. They were not reassured at all when the ‘Sublime Maharaja’ wondered if he was a God or not.
Unavoidably, a few royal cousins began to spread dissent and made travels outside Bengal’s frontiers to see if other nations would look kindly on a change of leadership. Too bad for them, France was not. For all the drawbacks of the French-Bengali alliance – like critics on the dreadful fate reserved to Burmese peasants who did not submit to Bengal’s rule – this kingdom was a loyal ally and was at the same time a shield and a sword for the Far East. The two allies were not in complete accord, but which nation compact truly was? Rao I may take five or ten wives in a single ceremony, and bathe himself in cow milk twice per day to ‘ascend to a high degree of spirituality’, France and what remained of the Entente could tolerate his eccentricities.
Still, many diplomats wondered how long it would last. In 1906, Maharaja Rao I decided to name his favourite tiger as Prime Minister, declaring that since Admiral Suffren had been granted such a noble animal in his career, obviously it was going to excel in his functions.
One hundred days later, the supreme – and self-proclaimed divine – ruler of Bengal died from a fever, though many suspected poison or a far less natural cause of deaths. With dozens of sons ready to claim the throne, a mini-civil war was fought, culminating in the ‘Night of the Five Jafars’ and the subsequent coronation of Jafar VII on March 4 1907.
Bengal had survived the post-war era, now it remained to see how it was going to forge its own culture and ambitions...
Fortunately for Bengal, far saner. And more pacifist, and less interested in tigers and danger...
It's not. The problem is the removal aspects, if they become too easily, can also be abused another way...
Yes, the parallels are there.
That was a really, really easy pun to make.
