Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

shall we assume that the enclosed part of Arabia is some kind of Bedouin reservation? :p
Basically, yeah : P

Looks good. But...No southern Sudan either? Because South Sudan would have been a part of Sudan in 1914
According to that video from eternity ago, it's unlikely the very Islamic Ottoman empire would want to absorb a Christian and Animist region like that. Whether they would gain independence or be handed over to Germany, it's hard to say. They never really got far enough to decide.
 
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Basically, yeah : P


According to that video from eternity ago, it's unlikely the very Islamic Ottoman empire would want to absorb a Christian-heavy region like that. Whether they would gain independence or be handed over to Germany, it's hard to say. They never really got far enough to decide.

That video sounds interesting but that doesn't sound right. Because southern Sudan during that period was doubtfully that Christian-heavy (I would imagine that it was a mix of traditional religions and Christianity) and in any case Georgia and Armenia were likely far more Christian-heavy than southern Sudan (and far more organized). If they could be vassalized, I see no reason why the Ottomans would not want to retain southern Sudan, which at the outbreak of the war was already technically Ottoman since it was a part of Egypt and Egypt was de jure a part of the Ottoman realm. They might leave the south to its own devices, but still retain control over it since it was technically already theirs and because it enabled control over some of the sources of Nile and of a greater stretch of the Nile system (which is vital to Egypt).
 
That video sounds interesting but that doesn't sound right. Because southern Sudan during that period was doubtfully that Christian-heavy (I would imagine that it was a mix of traditional religions and Christianity) and in any case Georgia and Armenia were likely far more Christian-heavy than southern Sudan (and far more organized). If they could be vassalized, I see no reason why the Ottomans would not want to retain southern Sudan, which at the outbreak of the war was already technically Ottoman since it was a part of Egypt and Egypt was de jure a part of the Ottoman realm. They might leave the south to its own devices, but still retain control over it since it was technically already theirs and because it enabled control over some of the sources of Nile and of a greater stretch of the Nile system (which is vital to Egypt).
Makes a lot of sense.

Of course, all of this is assuming that the already declining empire could sustain control over all this land.
 
Trialist_Austria.png

Trialism was a proposal to turn the Austro-Hungarian Empire from bipartite to tripartite, where the slavs would have their own state on equal footing with the Germans and Hungarians. Franz Ferdinand promoted the idea as a way to end slavic dissent in the empire. Serbians saw this as a threat to their dream of a united Slavic state and the Hungarians saw it as a way to liberate many of the minorities within their territory.
 
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Trialism was a proposal to turn the Austro-Hungarian Empire from bipartite to tripartite, where the slavs would have their own state on equal footing with the Germans and Hungarians. Franz Ferdinand promoted the idea as a way to end slavic dissent in the empire. Serbians saw this as a threat to their dream of a united Slavic state and the Hungarians saw it as a way to liberate many of the minorities within their territory.
Do you have a source for this? I figured a division like this, if it were a real proposal, would have kept Syrmia with the united South Slavic state....
 
Do you have a source for this? I figured a division like this, if it were a real proposal, would have kept Syrmia with the united South Slavic state....

https://encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/trialism

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/4k2o8m/trialist_proposals_for_austriahungarycroatia_from/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trialism_in_Austria-Hungary

It's entirely possible it would, as there were many different proposed divisions. Although, given how against the idea the Hungarians were, it's really up in the air.
 
https://encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/trialism

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/4k2o8m/trialist_proposals_for_austriahungarycroatia_from/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trialism_in_Austria-Hungary

It's entirely possible it would, as there were many different proposed divisions. Although, given how against the idea the Hungarians were, it's really up in the air.
Interesting ideas all around. I could see something alone the lines of one of these happening had Franz Ferdinand not been assassinated, although I tend to think that the portion remaining Austrian (and Bohemian) would have ended up as part of Germany and Hungary (with Galicia?), and the southern Slav state (Croatia? Illyria?) becoming independent monarchies in the German orbit. Or, he Union might hold. Either possibility is interesting.
 
I tend to think that the portion remaining Austrian (and Bohemian) would have ended up as part of Germany and Hungary (with Galicia?), and the southern Slav state (Croatia? Illyria?) becoming independent monarchies in the German orbit. Or, he Union might hold. Either possibility is interesting.
Wasn´t in this thread that map showing possible split of Austria between FF and Wilhelm? With Austria going to Germany and reborn Poland under second FFs son?
 

Yep, Alain Peyrefitte was the main proponent of it and wrote a book about it where he outlined 6 various "hypothesis"


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Here are the first two (if you have trouble reading it, the main difference between the two being in the ownership of the Annaba/Bone enclave and the south of the Oran enclave)

img88410.png


This looks like the third (despite what the title says)

unknown.png


Here's a personal interpretation of the fourth hypothesis, similar to the third except with the tiaret departement as a "solid" corridor to the sahara instead of a thin one around the oil pipelines

image-4441.png


'Autonomous territory of Tlemcen" , "French province of the regions of Alger and Oran", "Autonomous republic of the region of constantine"

I'm not sure but this could be the Fifth hypothesis, whose main difference with the 6th being that the Tlemcen is independant (in name at least) and the Saida region is part of the French sahara instead of the French Algeria.

From reading a bit about it it seems he disliked the first to proposal as for him having a territorial integrity was necessary, and only saw those as a temporary compromise while the pieds noirs could be evacuated, and he generally prefered the third and fourth hypothesis.
 
Yep, Alain Peyrefitte was the main proponent of it and wrote a book about it where he outlined 6 various "hypothesis"


unknown.png


Here are the first two (if you have trouble reading it, the main difference between the two being in the ownership of the Annaba/Bone enclave and the south of the Oran enclave)

img88410.png


This looks like the third (despite what the title says)

unknown.png


Here's a personal interpretation of the fourth hypothesis, similar to the third except with the tiaret departement as a "solid" corridor to the sahara instead of a thin one around the oil pipelines

image-4441.png


'Autonomous territory of Tlemcen" , "French province of the regions of Alger and Oran", "Autonomous republic of the region of constantine"

I'm not sure but this could be the Fifth hypothesis, whose main difference with the 6th being that the Tlemcen is independant (in name at least) and the Saida region is part of the French sahara instead of the French Algeria.

From reading a bit about it it seems he disliked the first to proposal as for him having a territorial integrity was necessary, and only saw those as a temporary compromise while the pieds noirs could be evacuated, and he generally prefered the third and fourth hypothesis.
The red parts of 01, 05, 07 and 09 look like a solid base for a pied noir state. No need for Tiaret
 
The red parts of 01, 05, 07 and 09 look like a solid base for a pied noir state. No need for Tiaret
Peyreffite advised for it because there were “only” 270,000 additional Algerians in Tiaretc, which would translate into less than 200k additional after some uh, forced population movement he was planning, apparently quoting from his book the tiaret region was a “good” (read few FLN activities) département.
 
No map, but I came across some of the early goals Japan had in the Second Sino-Japanese War, or at least those they communicated through peace terms in January of 1938.
  1. Repudiation of Commuism. This will include either the denunciation or the complete sterilization of the Sino-Russian non-aggression pact.
  2. Economic cooperation. This would include the establishment of joint aviation services and concessions for certain railroads in North China.
  3. Acknowledgment of China's financial liability for the cost of the war. As China is unable to pay a war indemnity, this means the concession of security in the form of rights and interests.
  4. Recognition of Manchukuo. This may take the form of commercial and communications treaties.
  5. The appointment of Japanese advisers.
These were as mentioned by the New York Times here. As also touched on in that article however, the situation in North China is not mentioned at all despite recent motions by the Japanese military present in establishing what would become the "Peiping Government". This was later touched on in another article later that month, as stated here.

"....While China could have had several years of peace to prepare for stiffer resistance at the price of only Hopeh and Chahar last July, to obtain peace now she must admit virtual Japanese suzerainty over Hopeh, Chahar, Suiyuan, Shansi, Shantung, Kiangsu and parts of Honan, Anhwei and Chekiang Provinces....."​

I'd assume then that much if not all this territory would have ultimately end up assigned to the Peiping Government under a draft peace treaty.​
 
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