WI: 'Super Wood' developed in the 1800's?

Hnau

Banned

Fantastic research! You people are crazy intelligent and resourceful, that’s why I like you so much.

I imagine eventually, in the 20th century, wood skyscrapers will dominate most city skylines, maybe even in developing countries. I like the idea of this process being developed in Civil award era Britain, and it receives investment from military research especially in the use of submarines and navy. Superwood ships and submarines develop in time for the 1890s for the British Empire to solidify control over their colonies as well as offer power-sharing reforms. More importantly, they would spark a full-scale naval race between the British Empire, the United States, Germany, Russia, and Japan, with the British far ahead. Of course, this would later spark the outbreak of the First Wood War...:openedeyewink:

Effectively, you could probably build huge armored zeppelins as well as aircraft carriers out of superwood, especially if the production method is mechanized and scaled up on industrial scales. Planes don’t benefit much from the material, I would bet, but maybe more parts will be made out of superwood. Wood tanks... true “barrels” in this world to borrow from another timeline, would only be a step away in a world conflict.
 

Fantastic research! You people are crazy intelligent and resourceful, that’s why I like you so much.

I imagine eventually, in the 20th century, wood skyscrapers will dominate most city skylines, maybe even in developing countries. I like the idea of this process being developed in Civil award era Britain, and it receives investment from military research especially in the use of submarines and navy. Superwood ships and submarines develop in time for the 1890s for the British Empire to solidify control over their colonies as well as offer power-sharing reforms. More importantly, they would spark a full-scale naval race between the British Empire, the United States, Germany, Russia, and Japan, with the British far ahead. Of course, this would later spark the outbreak of the First Wood War...:openedeyewink:

Effectively, you could probably build huge armored zeppelins as well as aircraft carriers out of superwood, especially if the production method is mechanized and scaled up on industrial scales. Planes don’t benefit much from the material, I would bet, but maybe more parts will be made out of superwood. Wood tanks... true “barrels” in this world to borrow from another timeline, would only be a step away in a world conflict.

Well, it all depends also on the environment. I imagine that it would have to see how well the wood structures deals with things like earthquakes, flooding, mold and so on. While this may be a super wood, it is still an organic material used so it carries risks.

I could see superwood ships and planes with wooden frames like the Mosquito. I don't know if the super wood would be able to better handle the pressures of underwater more than metal. Speaking of, how would this affect the metal industry?

Also, what could be some rammifications of this potentially greater acts of deforestation? It could prompt better acts of managing the environment.

Also, Willian Randoph Hearst would be in serious trouble given how the focus of timber would shift mroe toward this and less toward paper, thus opening the market for hemp-based paper. He's either have to try harder or things would screw him over economically and put him out of buisness.
 

SwampTiger

Banned
Forest management would become a crucial industry earlier. Their appears to be similar fiber based materials using hemp, jute and similar fibers available. This would alleviate some of the need for vast quantities of wood.

I doubt this is commercially doable without metallic rollers. cutting tools and molding tools. It may be possible on a small scale.

Fire and lack of water proofing would be the greatest enemies of this construction. Buildings and ships would need a reliable, safe fire retardant. I don't want to be an early adopter for submarines. Depth pressure may be a serious issue. Fire aboard would be catastrophic. Sealing of joints may have real issues for implementation.

The Mosquito and similar wooden aircraft are possible. You would need to know the specific densities relative to lightweight plywood to determine performance. However, early aircraft used solid wood and steel for framing. This material should be better than those, possibly delaying the need to switch to aluminum.
 
Forest management would become a crucial industry earlier. Their appears to be similar fiber based materials using hemp, jute and similar fibers available. This would alleviate some of the need for vast quantities of wood.

I doubt this is commercially doable without metallic rollers. cutting tools and molding tools. It may be possible on a small scale.

Fire and lack of water proofing would be the greatest enemies of this construction. Buildings and ships would need a reliable, safe fire retardant. I don't want to be an early adopter for submarines. Depth pressure may be a serious issue. Fire aboard would be catastrophic. Sealing of joints may have real issues for implementation.

The Mosquito and similar wooden aircraft are possible. You would need to know the specific densities relative to lightweight plywood to determine performance. However, early aircraft used solid wood and steel for framing. This material should be better than those, possibly delaying the need to switch to aluminum.

So forest management would become more vital and given this would take priority over making paper, hemp paper would likely take over and screw over WRH then? Heck, if it's soon enough, we might avoid marijuana being banned.

Ships I figured would use what they normally have though I am not sure on buildings.

I just ask about the lack of metallurgy for a future project later on.

What other political and cultural rammifications could this have? Especially on where this process could be found in
 
What other political and cultural rammifications could this have? Especially on where this process could be found in
Wood-producing nations like Russia and Sweden will initially export large quantites to wood-poor nations like France, Prussia/Germany, Italy, etc., but will likely eventually be using the process themselves to produce it. Maybe a setup for a 19th century Sweden wank?

Since forest management will be so important, secondary products of forests will similarly be important/more common.
 
Wood-producing nations like Russia and Sweden will initially export large quantites to wood-poor nations like France, Prussia/Germany, Italy, etc., but will likely eventually be using the process themselves to produce it. Maybe a setup for a 19th century Sweden wank?

Since forest management will be so important, secondary products of forests will similarly be important/more common.

The United States and Canada woild also benefit, but I would also see Brazil try to do so, but potentially royally screw it up along with the forests of the Kongo.

Secondary products I could see, but I did also mention how the emphasis of timber for this super-wood could shift the paper industry toward hemp.
 
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We could see some more radical designs like this earlier. Clipper ships could be planing or actually lift themselves entirely out the water.

If it's ten times as strong, then you could use it cut weight as well as bolster strength.
 
the forests of the Kongo.
Speaking of, the Kingdom of Kongo had been short of a staple export ever since the end of the Atlantic slave trade, and this largely caused their 19th century decline. If wood became a hot sell... Well they have lots of it and ports from which to export.
 
Speaking of, the Kingdom of Kongo had been short of a staple export ever since the end of the Atlantic slave trade, and this largely caused their 19th century decline. If wood became a hot sell... Well they have lots of it and ports from which to export.

The Important question would be if those in charge (both regionally and locally) be aware enough not simply to cause a massive deforestation?
 
The Important question would be if those in charge (both regionally and locally) be aware enough not simply to cause a massive deforestation?
More important is what they do with the deforested land. Creating farmland would be beneficial, where as creating fields of stump holes for mosquitoes to breed would be extremely harmful.
 
Speaking of, the Kingdom of Kongo had been short of a staple export ever since the end of the Atlantic slave trade, and this largely caused their 19th century decline. If wood became a hot sell... Well they have lots of it and ports from which to export.

Yeah true, though they’d require a fair bit of internal work to make sure their infrastructure was up to snuff to handle it. Would be fascinating to see this lead to the Kongo becoming a regional power
 
The Important question would be if those in charge (both regionally and locally) be aware enough not simply to cause a massive deforestation?

My guess is someone would realize they’d need to plant more trees and whatnot to deal with it.
 

Zachariah

Banned
Sounds like a Canada wank in the making.
Wood-producing nations like Russia and Sweden will initially export large quantites to wood-poor nations like France, Prussia/Germany, Italy, etc., but will likely eventually be using the process themselves to produce it. Maybe a setup for a 19th century Sweden wank?

Since forest management will be so important, secondary products of forests will similarly be important/more common.
The United States and Canada would also benefit, but I would also see Brazil try to do so, but potentially royally screw it up along with the forests of the Kongo.

Secondary products I could see, but I did also mention how the emphasis of timber for this super-wood could shift the paper industry toward hemp.
Speaking of, the Kingdom of Kongo had been short of a staple export ever since the end of the Atlantic slave trade, and this largely caused their 19th century decline. If wood became a hot sell... Well they have lots of it and ports from which to export.

Thing is though, whichever type of natural wood gets densified and processed into 'super wood', it doesn't seem to have too significant an impact upon the strength or other mechanical properties of the finished material. Hence, the scientists' maximization of the factors by which all of the wood's mechanical properties were enhanced, by deliberately using the treatment on bog-standard balsa wood, the lightest, softest and weakest hardwood they could find; using naturally stronger, denser woods does apparently create stronger and denser superwood, but the enhancement factor presumably isn't quite as dramatic. And it's also extremely important to note that the increased structural strength of superwood (and the thermal insulation properties of nanowood) comes from the catalytic conversion of natural anisotropic cellulose fibers, aligned in parallel, into anisotropic nano-cellulose fibers through hydrogen bonding. This means that it'll only work if the wood's cellular structure is naturally anisotropic to begin with, and that, critically, it wouldn't work on softwood species; only hardwood timbers would be able to be engineered into superwood. Which massively diminishes any hopes of a Canada, Russia, (even greater) US or Scandinavian wank scenario; but greatly improves the chances of a Brazil and/or Kongo-wank scenario.

Still, once they cottoned onto the fact that the weakest and softest hardwoods' properties get enhanced the most ITTL, you'd suspect that the imports and exports of exotic hardwoods, like those in the Kingdom of Kongo's rainforests, may well become less lucrative rather than more so; with the demand and impetus shifting towards the development and harvesting of the cheapest, easiest, fastest growing trees they can find to engineer superwood from, rather than the strongest or the most workable timbers. Eucalyptus plantations, for example, could well be far more lucrative and widespread ITTL than IOTL. Especially in places like California, where Eucalyptus trees were introduced by the first wave of immigrants from Australia to the United States, during the California Gold Rush, in the hope that they'd provide a lucrative renewable source of timber for construction, furniture making and railroad ties. However, it was soon found that the young trees being harvested in California were far inferior in quality to the timber being harvested in Australia from centuries-old tree, often splitting and warping during harvest, which swiftly doomed the California eucalyptus industry IOTL. ITTL though, if the technology exists to process and engineer it into super-wood instead? Don't count a California-wank scenario out. You'd certainly have a fair few more Australian Americans than you do today, that's for sure, and the Australian-American community getting relatively richer far quicker, rather than languishing in poverty. And if there are more of them, more widely planted, these Eucalyptus trees, and other similarly fast-growing invasive trees planted for lumber, are markedly more likely to escape such timber plantations and run amok than IOTL as well.

And coincidentally, the fastest growing hardwood tree in the world's Paulownia tomentosa, aka as the princesstree, foxglove-tree, or kiri; possessing an evolutionary adaptation that allows it to use C4 Carbon Fixation in the photosynthetic process, in the same manner as grasses, enabling it to grow up to 6m in its first year, and as much as 30cm in three weeks. Dubbed the 'aluminum of timber', Paulownia wood's not only the fastest growing hardwood, but the lightest known timber other than balsa, and has the highest strength to weight ratio of any wood, roughly 20% higher than that of balsa wood. It's also naturally a very good insulator, with a high temperature resistance and fire resistance, giving it an ignition temperature of approximately 400ºC, almost double that of most other hardwoods- if that carries through after the engineering process, one can imagine how important that might be. And while it's originally native to Central and Western China, it's the most widely planted, and possesses the greatest importance and cultural significance, in the home islands of Japan- where this fast-growing tree's traditionally planted at the birth of a girl, maturing when she does, before being cut down when she's eligible for marriage and carved into wooden articles for her dowry, with the carving of kiri wood respected as an art form in Japan. In legend, it's also said that this is the only tree that the Fenghuang will ever land on, and only when a good ruler is in power. All of which sounds like great set-up and imagery to lend itself towards a Japan-wank scenario, wouldn't you agree?
 
Thing is though, whichever type of natural wood gets densified and processed into 'super wood', it doesn't seem to have too significant an impact upon the strength or other mechanical properties of the finished material. Hence, the scientists' maximization of the factors by which all of the wood's mechanical properties were enhanced, by deliberately using the treatment on bog-standard balsa wood, the lightest, softest and weakest hardwood they could find; using naturally stronger, denser woods does apparently create stronger and denser superwood, but the enhancement factor presumably isn't quite as dramatic. And it's also extremely important to note that the increased structural strength of superwood (and the thermal insulation properties of nanowood) comes from the catalytic conversion of natural anisotropic cellulose fibers, aligned in parallel, into anisotropic nano-cellulose fibers through hydrogen bonding. This means that it'll only work if the wood's cellular structure is naturally anisotropic to begin with, and that, critically, it wouldn't work on softwood species; only hardwood timbers would be able to be engineered into superwood. Which massively diminishes any hopes of a Canada, Russia, (even greater) US or Scandinavian wank scenario; but greatly improves the chances of a Brazil and/or Kongo-wank scenario.

Still, once they cottoned onto the fact that the weakest and softest hardwoods' properties get enhanced the most ITTL, you'd suspect that the imports and exports of exotic hardwoods, like those in the Kingdom of Kongo's rainforests, may well become less lucrative rather than more so; with the demand and impetus shifting towards the development and harvesting of the cheapest, easiest, fastest growing trees they can find to engineer superwood from, rather than the strongest or the most workable timbers. Eucalyptus plantations, for example, could well be far more lucrative and widespread ITTL than IOTL. Especially in places like California, where Eucalyptus trees were introduced by the first wave of immigrants from Australia to the United States, during the California Gold Rush, in the hope that they'd provide a lucrative renewable source of timber for construction, furniture making and railroad ties. However, it was soon found that the young trees being harvested in California were far inferior in quality to the timber being harvested in Australia from centuries-old tree, often splitting and warping during harvest, which swiftly doomed the California eucalyptus industry IOTL. ITTL though, if the technology exists to process and engineer it into super-wood instead? Don't count a California-wank scenario out. You'd certainly have a fair few more Australian Americans than you do today, that's for sure, and the Australian-American community getting relatively richer far quicker, rather than languishing in poverty. And if there are more of them, more widely planted, these Eucalyptus trees, and other similarly fast-growing invasive trees planted for lumber, are markedly more likely to escape such timber plantations and run amok than IOTL as well.

And coincidentally, the fastest growing hardwood tree in the world's Paulownia tomentosa, aka as the princesstree, foxglove-tree, or kiri; possessing an evolutionary adaptation that allows it to use C4 Carbon Fixation in the photosynthetic process, in the same manner as grasses, enabling it to grow up to 6m in its first year, and as much as 30cm in three weeks. Dubbed the 'aluminum of timber', Paulownia wood's not only the fastest growing hardwood, but the lightest known timber other than balsa, and has the highest strength to weight ratio of any wood, roughly 20% higher than that of balsa wood. It's also naturally a very good insulator, with a high temperature resistance and fire resistance, giving it an ignition temperature of approximately 400ºC, almost double that of most other hardwoods- if that carries through after the engineering process, one can imagine how important that might be. And while it's originally native to Central and Western China, it's the most widely planted, and possesses the greatest importance and cultural significance, in the home islands of Japan- where this fast-growing tree's traditionally planted at the birth of a girl, maturing when she does, before being cut down when she's eligible for marriage and carved into wooden articles for her dowry, with the carving of kiri wood respected as an art form in Japan. In legend, it's also said that this is the only tree that the Fenghuang will ever land on, and only when a good ruler is in power. All of which sounds like great set-up and imagery to lend itself towards a Japan-wank scenario, wouldn't you agree?

That’s very fascinating though now I wonder if this could also become a China wank. It could give them a needed edge in the upcoming decades
 
Poplar seems like it's one of the fastest growing hardwood trees out there, and is a very common tree across the Northern Hemisphere. Might we see poplar plantations in parts of Europe to feed the demand for hardwood. Also, could softwoods be used to make other related products, like nanowood, because then Scandinavia, Russia, and Canada would reassume their natural advantage in cultivating timber, whereas if we can only use poplar those places may be a bit too far north.

This has honestly been my favorite discussion on this site just because it's not "what if James II married Margaret instead of Mary" or "can a certain marine warm-blooded vertebrate succeed" but instead something really cool that has made a lot of people interested in a material they didn't know existed.
 
I think superwood submarines would be a tall order, but maybe an application in merchant hulls rather than war ships. Maybe some conversions (Ironclads). :-D
 
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