An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

[Curtain Jerker]

As terrible as it seems, I hope no Latin will escape Macedon. Either by the sword or indentured servitude while being settled. Make your enemies, your friends lol

I'm with you in spirit - crush all the Latins! However, odds are a "Flawless Victory" is pretty implausible. Seems likely that despite D3's best efforts a few small bands of Latin troops (especially cavalry) will escape the trap. That being said I expect that the vast majority of the Allied army to be killed or captured either at the walls of Thessaloniki or during their withdrawal back up Macedonia.

Also, how much of a shock will it be once Blucher and Co learn that their avenue of escape is closed off? I'd love to be a fly on the wall of their command tent once that bit of news comes in.

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

I could see a couple turn on Theodor that instant, Casamir first. This is a glorious adventure for him until he realizes that the adventure has been over since they entered Macedonia. A couple princelings maybe. I don't see the Hungarians though. Prudence has been governing them lately, even on the homefront, I think it will be the Hungarians who keep the Wittlesbachs together. It will cost them the Ban of Croatia though, at least if I ran the Hungarians that's what I would ask for. Best to keep a grateful Emperial family than an unpredictable new one. The new German Empire after this war will be something else, and the power structure will have some serious changes within.

I mentioned it before, but I'll say it again, I really hope 'Bone Breaker' gets the reward for Casamirs head.

 

[MarshalofMontival]

I'm not entirely sold on the idea that the upcoming battle will be a one-sided curbstomp. For all that the Imperial army is surrounded and outgunned, I doubt we'll see anyone break and flee. The Rhomans will probably kill them, but if they run from the field, they'll almost certainly run afoul of those damned partisans, the ones who have a habit of eating the people they kill. The fact that it was only one or two partisan bands that turned to cannibalism won't matter; to the Imperials, every partisan will be a man-eater.

In addition to which, as much as the leaders of the Imperial army hate each other, they're all in the same trap; the only way they can get out of it and go back to killing each other is to stand together and either beat the Rhomans or at least fight their way clear. And as battered as the Imperial army is, it still has teeth, and there's nothing more dangerous than a wounded and cornered animal. Casimir especially knows that his survival depends on fighting the Rhomans to a standstill long enough to retreat, and I imagine that 'Bone Breaker' can also expect a quick death at best from the Rhomans. Vauban may be less desperate, he's just a professional following his king's orders, but Theodore will almost certainly prefer to fight to the death than admit the possibility of capture; his pride won't stand for anything less.

I concede that the Rhomans will probably win, but it'll probably be a Malplaquet rather than a Blenheim.

 

[Sciox]

I'll make my own prediction that it'll be more like Borodino and the aftermath. The Rhomans and Latins will suffer similar casualties but what will really hurt the Latins will be a long, disorganized retreat through hostile territory that has already been stripped bare and is crawling with Partisans and Rhoman detachments.

 

[Tirion]

I'm not entirely sold on the idea that the upcoming battle will be a one-sided curbstomp. For all that the Imperial army is surrounded and outgunned, I doubt we'll see anyone break and flee. The Rhomans will probably kill them, but if they run from the field, they'll almost certainly run afoul of those damned partisans, the ones who have a habit of eating the people they kill. The fact that it was only one or two partisan bands that turned to cannibalism won't matter; to the Imperials, every partisan will be a man-eater.

In addition to which, as much as the leaders of the Imperial army hate each other, they're all in the same trap; the only way they can get out of it and go back to killing each other is to stand together and either beat the Rhomans or at least fight their way clear. And as battered as the Imperial army is, it still has teeth, and there's nothing more dangerous than a wounded and cornered animal. Casimir especially knows that his survival depends on fighting the Rhomans to a standstill long enough to retreat, and I imagine that 'Bone Breaker' can also expect a quick death at best from the Rhomans. Vauban may be less desperate, he's just a professional following his king's orders, but Theodore will almost certainly prefer to fight to the death than admit the possibility of capture; his pride won't stand for anything less.

I concede that the Rhomans will probably win, but it'll probably be a Malplaquet rather than a Blenheim.

All the better. This needs to be a decisive victory against the best of the Latins, so that none can think "if they were just a little braver they'd have won". Every Roman who only survives now because his enemy ran away is ten more dead Romans when the Latins come back for more again and again and again.

And let us have no illusions about the survival chances the Latins have now. As the newest Orthodox patriarch would say in his native language, Omae wa mou shindeiru.

 

[JohnSmith]

And the Lord of the West shall gather up a great host,
And the Lord of the East shall assemble a vast army,
And they shall battle with each other till all Europe trembles.

The Great Turk shall usher into the fray,
Jerusalem shall come under his sway.

And the Lord of the West shall be exalted,
And win glory on the fields of Philip.
The city of Constantine will hear the sound of thunder
And the Lord of the West will gain his prize.
As for the Lord of the East,
No one shall know where he sleeps.
But his seed shall journey west,
Where there shall be Antichrist.

And his seed shall battle Antichrist,
The West will shudder with the noise of their battle,
Till Antichrist shall drive them out,
And they return unto the east.

Yet Antichrist shall follow them,
Till his hand reaches the city where the wise sleep.
And he shall sing in his heart,
That the world shall soon be his.

But the sons of Leonidas shall sally forth,
With the sons of Xerxes at their side,
And the children of Solomon with them.
And even Antichrist shall quake at their might.

But even such great power shall not be enough,
Till Russia shall march forth,
With a host no man can number.
And not even Antichrist shall be able to stand.

So stay your hand, children of the west.
For when the bill comes due,
It shall be the peoples of the east that shall save you.

Looks like we're not even close to the endgame. We're about half way through this prophecy.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

Looks like we're not even close to the endgame. We're about half way through this prophecy.

Well, if we look at the timeline - it comes down to two things.

1) What Glory on the Fields of Phillip? Is this one of the previous battles? That seems unlikely, suggesting Thessaloniki will lead to some glory.
2) Does Glory = Victory? Is his Prize a good thing? After all, we've seen that Jerusalem coming under Ottoman rule is a poisoned chalice.

As for the rest, I'm not convinced that we're going to see this all in one war - or if it is, I think the "Seed" and "Antichrist" parts more refer to the Triunes and Seed probably does NOT refer to a member of the Imperial Family (unless its Athena, which is a scary thought)

But this could well be multiple wars - the references to Leonidas, Xerxes and Solomon could refer to an alliance based on need, OR given Odysseus' role as predicted, it could be that he succeeds in his war and effectively annex the Ottomans, or at least establish them, and later the rest of Arabia as clients and then it's THAT host. Although that might have been better with Mohammed than Solomon if that was the case, unless we're referring back to Jerusalem in the prophecy.

That leaves out questions like "Where do the wise sleep"? The ambition of ruling it all suggests Constantinople, but that's very Euro-centric. It could be India for example.

---

Heck, that does have me thinking that (just to be confusing) that the Lord of the East is Theodor - as his realms are in the EAST of the HRE, just to mess with our heads. The rest doesn't really make sense that way though.

 

[Shard]

Looks like we're not even close to the endgame. We're about half way through this prophecy.

The Antichrist of course refers to Henry. His funding for the HRE's invasion is his 'hand'.

 

[Evilprodigy]

I think the lords of the east and west doesn't refer to the current war. It's Andreas Niketas and some past conflict. Hence the 'No one shall know where he sleeps.' bit, with those legends of Andreas returning from death as a king-under-the-mountain sort of myth. The seed that journeys west is probably Andreas's descendants, which ones I don't think matters but the Mexicans are a good bet. It does not specify that it is this seed which will battle the Antichrist, just that his seed will battle it. Antichrist is too vague but, if we assume it to be this war, then it is probably our favourite HRE. The bits about the antichrist battling them could be a prior war, and the current one probably starts with the bit on the antichrist following them, e.g. invading the Rhomans. The sons of Leonidas is probably the western themes, the sons of Xerxes the eastern themes, and the sons of Solomon Thessaloniki's strikingly large Jewish population.

Probably all wrong but I wanted to provide some alternatives.
Prophecies are vague things.

 

[Shard]

I think the lords of the east and west doesn't refer to the current war. It's Andreas Niketas and some past conflict. Hence the 'No one shall know where he sleeps.' bit, with those legends of Andreas returning from death as a king-under-the-mountain sort of myth. The seed that journeys west is probably Andreas's descendants, which ones I don't think matters but the Mexicans are a good bet. It does not specify that it is this seed which will battle the Antichrist, just that his seed will battle it. Antichrist is too vague but, if we assume it to be this war, then it is probably our favourite HRE. The bits about the antichrist battling them could be a prior war, and the current one probably starts with the bit on the antichrist following them, e.g. invading the Rhomans. The sons of Leonidas is probably the western themes, the sons of Xerxes the eastern themes, and the sons of Solomon Thessaloniki's strikingly large Jewish population.

Probably all wrong but I wanted to provide some alternatives.
Prophecies are vague things.

I think maybe the seed refers to Andreas d'Este, and he's about to meet Henry invading Germany (maybe in a year or so). The Romans will make an extremely unlikely alliance with the Germans in a war against the triunes, which they have an advantage in and which goes all the way south to Athens. At this point the long-unknown Russia enters the fray.

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

Malpaquet had 2:1 odds for the alliance, this more like 4:1, and 3:1 guns for the Rhomans. Rhome is going to take casualties for sure, that is a lot of Menon the field.

The leaders will be ransomed if they are lucky, they are far to valuable. It is the rest of the army that is going to be a serious tragedy, 200,000 give or take, that will either be dead or not going home for a very long time. That is going to play Havok with the greater German economy.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

Malpaquet had 2:1 odds for the alliance, this more like 8:1 if not more, and 5:1 guns for the Rhomans. Rhome is going to take casualties for sure, that is a lot of Menon the field.

The leaders will be ransomed if they are lucky, they are far to valuable. It is the rest of the army that is going to be a serious tragedy, 200,000 give or take, that will either be dead or not going home for a very long time. That is going to play Havok with the greater German economy.

You have a point there, especially on the top of the already dodgy state the Wittelsbachs are in, and the likelihood those loans won't get repaid.

But thats 200k in on battle - what about the total numbers for the whole war? We've got populations under 30 million here, closer to 20 million if I remember correctly. 200,000 is still a full 1% of the population of the country. Throw in all the losses in the war and we could start seeing some truly scary figures. Even the idea of losing only 500,000 over the whole war from Germany is still 2.5% of the population.

Throw in the collapse of credit-lenders and Germany might suffer from both a money-famine and the losses from the war, and potential indemnities... hoo boy we've got a bit of a nasty mess.

If we presume a Triune war is to follow, then who can finance a German army other than Bohemia and the Northern Princes? If Bohemia works with the Triunes, Germany is gone overnight without some significant help from the outside, and some talented northern commanders. None of which I can see in the prophecy, which suggests (as it always has) that Post-War Germany will be relying on the Romans, Russians, and all that strength to hit the Triunes back. (Hey, my alliance bloc, it is in the prophecy!).

I do wonder if when the turnabout happens if it will be Elizabeth, as apparently still technically part of the Imperial Family that comes and ask for Roman help from Demetrios. It'd really bring things to a poetic circle - and prevent a German Revanchist movement if the Romans do help.

Gawd, I dunno how B444 intends to close this off, but frankly this, Endgame, and GoT are gonna break me this year!

 

[Sceonn]

I just hope Theodore lives to see the consequence of his War.

 

[JSC]

I just hope Theodore lives to see the consequence of his War.

I'm pretty sure the Roman army will try to make sure Theodore and Casimir are going to survive the battle. They are both worth far more alive and in gilded cages than dead in a grave. At worst Rome can ransom them back for 1M Hyperia a piece among other ransomed nobles. At best they can have them sit in a golden prison at the White Palace wrecking the legitimacy of anyone who tries to supplant them in their native country.

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

I just hope Theodore lives to see the consequence of his War.

Could you imagine him getting captured and held at the White Palace. D3 would come everyday to chat with him, and he would slowly have a diet of arsenic until he is sent home and die shortly there after.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

There's a decent chance Theodor lives - the curse D3 placed on him says: "Theodor of Bavaria, you who would gain the whole world. May you forfeit your mind instead.”

Now, there's a decent chance he "forfeits" his mind when a cannonball separates his head from the rest of his body but I'm inclined to believe he'll go insane/catatonic when his army is utterly shattered.

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

There's a decent chance Theodor lives - the curse D3 placed on him says: "Theodor of Bavaria, you who would gain the whole world. May you forfeit your mind instead.”

Now, there's a decent chance he "forfeits" his mind when a cannonball separates his head from the rest of his body but I'm inclined to believe he'll go insane/catatonic when his army is utterly shattered.

That's if you believe in the power of heretical mumbo-jumbo, uttered by a nihilistic drunk

 

[Curtain Jerker]

That's if you believe in the power of heretical mumbo-jumbo, uttered by a nihilistic drunk

I spent a huge chunk of my 20s uttering heretical mumbo-jumbo while drunk. Generally didn't involve cursing anyone - well, other than myself for drinking so much in the first place.

 

[Vince]

That's if you believe in the power of heretical mumbo-jumbo, uttered by a nihilistic drunk

but he likes coffee and blowing stuff up. So he's a credible source.

 

[Lascaris]

I'm not entirely sold on the idea that the upcoming battle will be a one-sided curbstomp. For all that the Imperial army is surrounded and outgunned, I doubt we'll see anyone break and flee. The Rhomans will probably kill them, but if they run from the field, they'll almost certainly run afoul of those damned partisans, the ones who have a habit of eating the people they kill. The fact that it was only one or two partisan bands that turned to cannibalism won't matter; to the Imperials, every partisan will be a man-eater.

There are 200,000 Greeks facing 60,000 Germans out in the open without any notable entrenchments on either side. (the German siege lines are facing Thessaloniki not their rear). To apply Lanchester's square law, the whole German army would be destroyed at slightly over 9,000 casualties.