The NextGen OTL Worlda Series
- Thread starter hadaril
- Start date
I feel like south korea should have color even if not, here's my version of korea.
or
or
I would remove the colour at their mutual border, since it looks like influence rather than claims.
Hey folks! Sorry for the month or so of silence. Semester is just about done for me, so I can finally get to work with mapping. Additionally, I've been pre-occupied with working on art for a HOI4 mod, so that's been taking up a fair bit of time I would otherwise be using on mapping. I'm gonna get back to work this Wednesday once I get home from college. I've been keeping an eye on the thread so I'll get to fixing some of the issues posted here as well.
Don Quijote
Banned
Small correction for 1700 and 1715; the Peloponnese should be Venetian, as per the Treaty of Karlowitz.
I, too, would very much like this map and I strongly encourage it to be made. A 1725 map showing Afghan Hotaki control of Persia would also be nice.
It seems the Khan of the Bulgars, Presian, who reigned during this period was not expanding directly into Thrace. He did conquer and rule territory south into Macedonia and even up to the Aegean (as the current 843 map correctly portrays), but the approaches to Constantinople did not appear to lie within the Khans zone of control.
I've noticed that the borders of Switzerland during the French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars are incorrect. Check this out, for instance:
I have a question about the dates. So, each map is set on a particular year, but what part of the year?
For instance, if a border change occurred on August 13 of a year, would it be shown on the map of that year? Does the map show all the changes that occurred during a that year or the situation when the year begins?
If it is the latter, then does the map show the situation 0n 1 January, 00:01, or 1 January, 23:59?
For instance, if a border change occurred on August 13 of a year, would it be shown on the map of that year? Does the map show all the changes that occurred during a that year or the situation when the year begins?
If it is the latter, then does the map show the situation 0n 1 January, 00:01, or 1 January, 23:59?
In what sense? It didn't exercise control over any land area and Italy claimed all of Rome until the Lateran Treaty.
As far as I remember from doing these map projects using worlda type format and colour schemes, the default is January 1st of that year but many maps will show the situation at a different point in the year when something significant occurred (for example, most 1942 maps would not be January 1st I think but would rather be whatever day the Germans reached their furthest point during Operation Barbarossa, since that is what the year 1942 is most often associated with).
Partially related to the talk of years, I know that in the older map series, there were a few situations where there would be two maps for a year, showing different points. Particularly during WWII, like for 1941, with one map showing things prior to Barbarossa, and one showing the German advance at the height of the Battle of Moscow and just prior to Pearl Harbor around December 5-7. I took the newer map and applied the older stuff onto it, if you care for a 1941 December map
Now, I ran into a bit of confusion with the Reichscomissariat Ukraine, along with whatever that little subdivision in the darker grey that is to the east of Ukraine in the 1942 map. That small subdivision doesn't appear on the old 1941 December map but does appear on both the old and your new 1942 map, I just don't know what it is so I don't know if it was a thing in December 1941. Same with the Reichskomissariat Borders-the old 1941 December map shows a different set of borders than both the old and your new 1942 map. Some very preliminary searches just show your borders, so I don't know what the basis for the old 1941 borders were. But just in case, I also made a map with the old Ukrainian borders and without that subdivision to the east of the Ukraine (though for all I know, maybe that subdivision didn't exist then, but the newer Ukrainian borders are correct, meaning a mix between these two maps is actually correct for this date)
Much later Edit: according to the slightly following discussion, it looks like the first (above) map i the one to go for with the December 1941 map. The map that immediately just below is thus not right. The bottom-most one still is right for 1941 before Barbarossa though. Also the two relevant maps have the Caribbean fix applied now
Furthermore, when making these and looking through the maps, I noticed that your 1941 just seems to be the old 1940 June map right after the fall of France but updated to the new map. Which doesn't quite work because by January 1941, Free France had come into existence and the Second Vienna Award (granting half of Transylvania to Hungary) had been a thing, so those should be shown. Also, the fall of Yugoslavia and Greece were completed by June 1 in 1941-the old first 1941 map was dated for June 21, a day before Barbarossa, and thus would show those, but if you want the 1941 Map (or the first 1941 map, if you want to adopt either of the above 2 into your series and have 2 1941 maps) to be January 1, then it wouldn't show either.
Here's a 1941 June 21 on your new map with updates from the older map. If you wanted it to instead be January 1, then Yugoslavia and Greece would still be shown as existing, as per the 1940 maps, with Romania and Hungary still in the Axis and with the Second Vienna Accord. Also, the Syrian campaign would not have begun at that point, so the British advances in southern Lebanon and Syria would not be shown. The East African Campaign would also be at a different point, but I don't really know precisely where-the fighting started in 1940 and I can't really find much in the way of maps showing the advances or dates of advance on that front.
Also, omniatlas says Britain and Thailand ended their influence zones in Thailand in 1925. Its just omniatlas and this is an area I don't have much knowledge about it, a brief look at Wikipedia finds that " By 1925–1926, Siamese extraterritorial rights were restored a period of five years thereafter" and cites the Thai ministry of foreign affairs, so if that's the case, then maps after 1930-31 should show no foreign influence zones in Thailand.
Looking at both the old and new maps, it also looks like there might be some issues with the Free French, with certain territories not being shown at the right dates. Like, French India and the south Chinese concession were Free French by 1941 January, and Wallis and Futana were shown as Free French before they were taken from Vichy on the old maps. Also, on your 1941 but not your 1942, part of French India is shown as Portuguese rather than French, I'm not sure if this is on other maps too.
Furthermore, it looks like the maps of Israel/Mandatory Palestine show the modern border (with the Golan Heights) even though that was only a thing after the 1967 Day War.
Additionally, from 1920 and on, East Timor is shown as Dutch, when it was still Portuguese. And Liechtenstein appears to be filled in with the German darker outline color during WWII, but wasn't German-occupied EDIT2 I forgot to actually change that on 2 of the 3 maps I uploaded-just fixed that with this edit-but also, I noticed that all of the countries, even small ones, are given a color-I just filled Liechtenstein in white because I'm not sure which particular color scheme is being used, but maybe someone else wants to figure that out. (minor edit3-I checked the NCS color scheme in the first post and could not find a particular color for Liechtenstein, though maybe I just missed it or something?)
Also, Hanko base in Finland is shown occupied by the Soviets after 1941 when it was reoccupied by the Finns. And some pacific islands appear to not be filled in on some of these maps, such as the Alaskan islands close to Russia on the right side of the map and the extension of the Hawaiian Islands, again into the right side of the map. Also Hawaii look to be filled with the regular American color rather than the territory color as Alaska is, at least on some maps. Also, Guam, which was American from the Spanish-American War until the Japanese occupation in WWII, is shown as Japanese after WWI. Also, the Guantanamo Bay base in Cuba is not shown at least on some maps, though maybe that was just a stylistic choice since it is so small. Also, from their creation until the recapture in WWII, the Ukrainian and Belorussian SSRs are given darker subdivision outlines than the SSRs in the Caucasus and Central Asia, again not sure if that is a stylistic choice or there's some reason for that (were they of a different status or something?). Also, the British Indian Ocean territory is not shown. Also it looks like Hainan was occupied by Japan since 1939 while it is shown as still Chinese until 1942.
EDIT The old December 1941 maps seemed to be wrong with Libya and the Tobruk area, showing Tobruk isolated and with Italy advanced into Egypt, with Operation Compass in reality having relieved Tobruk by early December. I tried my hand at drawing it in, but maybe someone else wants to take a look at it and fix the precise pixels if need be-that's the one area where I actually drew borders freehand rather than just splicing them in from old maps
With all that said, though, I must say, these maps overall have been well-done, both by OP and all the other people who have contributed to this current series and the past ones. When it comes to mapping, I can do very basic stuff but am rubbish when it comes to actually drawing borders at all. Also, is there anywhere I can upload more or something? Despite my relative lack of skill, I could at least fill some stuff in or whatever and some additional simple editing. Most of the things above, I have already edited into the three maps I posted here. But there's technically a three images per day limit, which doesn't appear to be strongly-enforced but still
Now, I ran into a bit of confusion with the Reichscomissariat Ukraine, along with whatever that little subdivision in the darker grey that is to the east of Ukraine in the 1942 map. That small subdivision doesn't appear on the old 1941 December map but does appear on both the old and your new 1942 map, I just don't know what it is so I don't know if it was a thing in December 1941. Same with the Reichskomissariat Borders-the old 1941 December map shows a different set of borders than both the old and your new 1942 map. Some very preliminary searches just show your borders, so I don't know what the basis for the old 1941 borders were. But just in case, I also made a map with the old Ukrainian borders and without that subdivision to the east of the Ukraine (though for all I know, maybe that subdivision didn't exist then, but the newer Ukrainian borders are correct, meaning a mix between these two maps is actually correct for this date)
Much later Edit: according to the slightly following discussion, it looks like the first (above) map i the one to go for with the December 1941 map. The map that immediately just below is thus not right. The bottom-most one still is right for 1941 before Barbarossa though. Also the two relevant maps have the Caribbean fix applied now
Furthermore, when making these and looking through the maps, I noticed that your 1941 just seems to be the old 1940 June map right after the fall of France but updated to the new map. Which doesn't quite work because by January 1941, Free France had come into existence and the Second Vienna Award (granting half of Transylvania to Hungary) had been a thing, so those should be shown. Also, the fall of Yugoslavia and Greece were completed by June 1 in 1941-the old first 1941 map was dated for June 21, a day before Barbarossa, and thus would show those, but if you want the 1941 Map (or the first 1941 map, if you want to adopt either of the above 2 into your series and have 2 1941 maps) to be January 1, then it wouldn't show either.
Here's a 1941 June 21 on your new map with updates from the older map. If you wanted it to instead be January 1, then Yugoslavia and Greece would still be shown as existing, as per the 1940 maps, with Romania and Hungary still in the Axis and with the Second Vienna Accord. Also, the Syrian campaign would not have begun at that point, so the British advances in southern Lebanon and Syria would not be shown. The East African Campaign would also be at a different point, but I don't really know precisely where-the fighting started in 1940 and I can't really find much in the way of maps showing the advances or dates of advance on that front.
Also, omniatlas says Britain and Thailand ended their influence zones in Thailand in 1925. Its just omniatlas and this is an area I don't have much knowledge about it, a brief look at Wikipedia finds that " By 1925–1926, Siamese extraterritorial rights were restored a period of five years thereafter" and cites the Thai ministry of foreign affairs, so if that's the case, then maps after 1930-31 should show no foreign influence zones in Thailand.
Looking at both the old and new maps, it also looks like there might be some issues with the Free French, with certain territories not being shown at the right dates. Like, French India and the south Chinese concession were Free French by 1941 January, and Wallis and Futana were shown as Free French before they were taken from Vichy on the old maps. Also, on your 1941 but not your 1942, part of French India is shown as Portuguese rather than French, I'm not sure if this is on other maps too.
Furthermore, it looks like the maps of Israel/Mandatory Palestine show the modern border (with the Golan Heights) even though that was only a thing after the 1967 Day War.
Additionally, from 1920 and on, East Timor is shown as Dutch, when it was still Portuguese. And Liechtenstein appears to be filled in with the German darker outline color during WWII, but wasn't German-occupied EDIT2 I forgot to actually change that on 2 of the 3 maps I uploaded-just fixed that with this edit-but also, I noticed that all of the countries, even small ones, are given a color-I just filled Liechtenstein in white because I'm not sure which particular color scheme is being used, but maybe someone else wants to figure that out. (minor edit3-I checked the NCS color scheme in the first post and could not find a particular color for Liechtenstein, though maybe I just missed it or something?)
Also, Hanko base in Finland is shown occupied by the Soviets after 1941 when it was reoccupied by the Finns. And some pacific islands appear to not be filled in on some of these maps, such as the Alaskan islands close to Russia on the right side of the map and the extension of the Hawaiian Islands, again into the right side of the map. Also Hawaii look to be filled with the regular American color rather than the territory color as Alaska is, at least on some maps. Also, Guam, which was American from the Spanish-American War until the Japanese occupation in WWII, is shown as Japanese after WWI. Also, the Guantanamo Bay base in Cuba is not shown at least on some maps, though maybe that was just a stylistic choice since it is so small. Also, from their creation until the recapture in WWII, the Ukrainian and Belorussian SSRs are given darker subdivision outlines than the SSRs in the Caucasus and Central Asia, again not sure if that is a stylistic choice or there's some reason for that (were they of a different status or something?). Also, the British Indian Ocean territory is not shown. Also it looks like Hainan was occupied by Japan since 1939 while it is shown as still Chinese until 1942.
EDIT The old December 1941 maps seemed to be wrong with Libya and the Tobruk area, showing Tobruk isolated and with Italy advanced into Egypt, with Operation Compass in reality having relieved Tobruk by early December. I tried my hand at drawing it in, but maybe someone else wants to take a look at it and fix the precise pixels if need be-that's the one area where I actually drew borders freehand rather than just splicing them in from old maps
With all that said, though, I must say, these maps overall have been well-done, both by OP and all the other people who have contributed to this current series and the past ones. When it comes to mapping, I can do very basic stuff but am rubbish when it comes to actually drawing borders at all. Also, is there anywhere I can upload more or something? Despite my relative lack of skill, I could at least fill some stuff in or whatever and some additional simple editing. Most of the things above, I have already edited into the three maps I posted here. But there's technically a three images per day limit, which doesn't appear to be strongly-enforced but still
Last edited: