Gulf war 1990 without NATO and USA

Khanzeer

Banned
WI Iraq attacks kuwait as in the OTL in Aug 1990

but USA and NATO promises to help gulf states logistically but refuses to deploy their active military forces

so it is upto gulf /arab and muslim states to evict Iraq out of Kuwait

KSA + UAE + Qatar + egypt and likely Syria as well

maybe pakistani military helping KSA

How would such a campaign go ?


Please just focus on the military aspects of it and disregard the political implications ( thanks )
 

Crowbar Six

Long slow and messy with much higher anti-Iraq casualties. NATO forces were just about as well trained and more capable as any army in the 20th Century, they had a massive technological, logistical and tactical edge over every other military on the planet at that time.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
saudis had 42 F-15C in 1990 and egypt had 67 F-16
their armies were decently equipped too
egypt has a long experience of fighting IDAF
 

Crowbar Six

Khanzeer said:
saudis had 42 F-15C in 1990 and egypt had 67 F-16
their armies were decently equipped too
egypt has a long experience of fighting IDAF
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The Egyptians were not exactly stellar performers against the IDF. The Saudis were massively reliant on USAF and BAe personnel to operate their equipments and there is no reason to believe the Saudi's or Egyptians would do that well in actual combat, Saudi units were not particularly highly regarded for their capabilities which is why they got assigned mainly secondary tasks in the OTL.
 

wtw

Cryhavoc101 said:
I hesitated to use the word mercenary...but yes
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I wouldn't, the Gulf Nations have shit ton of money to hire people. It would not just be Muslims, it would be South Africans, later Eastern European and other nations from other parts of the world. I think it would last years and in the end we would see the birth of the private military corporation.
 

jsb

wtw said:
I wouldn't, the Gulf Nations have shit ton of money to hire people. It would not just be Muslims, it would be South Africans, later Eastern European and other nations from other parts of the world. I think it would last years and in the end we would see the birth of the private military corporation.
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I doubt it would really last that long, if US/NATO are providing logistics (and probably deniable Missile and F117 strikes) then they will allow Saudis and Gulf states to recruit as many "flight instructors" as needed to make full use of the ever increasing number of F15/Tornado/F111/F16/etc aircraft being delivered both new and second hand "surplus"...... after that its just a matter of paying a Pakistan/Egyptian/Morocco/Oman/etc force to clear up the damaged mess as the Iraqi army withdraws from being bombed day and night for a couple of months?
 
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Khanzeer

Banned
That's another scenario guys the mercenary army of gulf states

But the Arab armies in OTL in 1990 Even for all of them combined how do they stand up against Iraq?
 

Dave Howery

Crowbar Six said:
The Egyptians were not exactly stellar performers against the IDF.
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Israel is the best of the best in the Middle East though. Do the Egyptians need to be that capable when facing Iraq? IIRC, Egypt's military was a lot better in 1990 than it was in 1973. Note that Iraq's participation in the 73 war was even worse than Egypt's...
 

Deleted member 9338

Why not get assistance from the IDF, both the IDF and the Arab states loathe Sadam.
 

Cryhavoc101

Khanzeer said:
What kind of experience does Pakistani army have in large scale mechanized operations? I mean against Indians Both sides performed abysmally
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They have an organised large military with all the trimmings of a modern military with the 'Indian Army' Legacy of WW2 before partition

Yes they are not a patch on the Israelis or the top tier NATO forces but verse the Iraqis with plenty of Saudi money behind them then they are probably good enough to 'cross a line in the sand and not die'
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Cryhavoc101 said:
They have an organised large military with all the trimmings of a modern military with the 'Indian Army' Legacy of WW2 before partition

Yes they are not a patch on the Israelis or the top tier NATO forces but verse the Iraqis with plenty of Saudi money behind them then they are probably good enough to 'cross a line in the sand and not die'
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Ofcourse they can certainly fight the Iraqis to a standstill
Question #1 For me what would be the vital objectives of the Iraqi military I take they will go for the Eastern provinces and the oil fields and that also could contain a sizeable proportion of the Saudi air forces at naval bases

Question2 how much will Arab airforce interfere with Iraqi army movements ? ( without NATO or any mercenary help)
I mean They have far Modern airplanes than the Iraqis do
 

Mike D

jony663 said:
Why not get assistance from the IDF, both the IDF and the Arab states loathe Sadam.
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Because the best way to get all those Arab mercenaries (and probably a lot of the professional military personnel) to lay down their arms and refuse to fight is for Israel to get involved. There was a reason why the US and UK made so much effort to stop Israel from getting involved.
 

Cryhavoc101

Khanzeer said:
Ofcourse they can certainly fight the Iraqis to a standstill
Question #1 For me what would be the vital objectives of the Iraqi military I take they will go for the Eastern provinces and the oil fields and that also could contain a sizeable proportion of the Saudi air forces at naval bases

Question2 how much will Arab airforce interfere with Iraqi army movements ? ( without NATO or any mercenary help)
I mean They have far Modern airplanes than the Iraqis do
Click to expand...

I have heard some rather worrying stories regarding the Saudis use of its equipment being very sub par - but I can imagine a sufficient number of 'NATO' advisors might smooth over any deficiencies

Also any threat of the Saudi oil wells being attacked and OP POD be damned you would see a Western reaction as they cannot afford for their oil supply to be interrupted
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Dave Howery said:
Israel is the best of the best in the Middle East though. Do the Egyptians need to be that capable when facing Iraq? IIRC, Egypt's military was a lot better in 1990 than it was in 1973. Note that Iraq's participation in the 73 war was even worse than Egypt's...
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Interesting what are you basing this on ?
Purely equipment or training as well ?
 
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