I did an post about Tolkien fleeing to New Zealand and CS. Lewis to Australia and how it affects their works.
I would love to see that.
I did an post about Tolkien fleeing to New Zealand and CS. Lewis to Australia and how it affects their works.
I would love to see that.
Alterwright and I briefly mentioned how animation might be different between the USA and CSA. While people like Max Fleischer and Walt Disney would probably still do their own thing in the United States, Tex Avery might become a well-known Confederate animator that is recognizable in both OTL and TL-191. I'd imagine there would be more "new people" that become animators in both countries in TL-191.
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Got a link to that?
One thing I could picture is characters like Private Snafu and Beatle being a LOT more popular than OTL. Along with cartoons similar to this...
I would love to see a TL-191 version of this.
Imagine a mini-Featherston doll doing this, instead of Hitler. Haha.
Imagine a mini-Featherston doll doing this, instead of Hitler. Haha.
I am of the opinion that he may continue his work, but that it does not gain as much popularity as it did in OTL, if ever.
It's too bad that there isn't much discussion about how a British defeat in the First Great War would affect famous people from Britain. Could Tolkien still have had the motivation to write such a grand piece of literature? Would it be a lot darker? Would he have chosen a different career?
There’s a good chance he might have had the same motivations and career even with a British defeat.
He was studying myths and language prior to to his drafting as an officer. He was against the WWI from the onset and seems like many of his political views were present even before his service but they crystalized during his trench time. He was also writing some of what would become the background history of the Rings universe
Post war, his strong Roman Catholic faith and anti-imperial views probably would have made him few friends in the Silver Shirts.
If Tolkien did leave the UK like has been suggested and moved to the colonies, it would be interesting to see if any of the local culture there would seep into his writing
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Don't know if this kind of thing belongs here, but here it goes! Cookie and kudos to whoever correctly guesses the allusion to a certain OTL game released on the release date mentioned here 
Medal of Honor (2001)
By the early 2000s, competition within the first-person shooter market was starting to increase dramatically, with the genre dominated by sci-fi games. In 1998, developers at a new gaming studio decided to create a brand new first-person shooter IP set in the Second Great War. The idea of setting a game in the Second Great War, especially the war in North America the between United States and the former Confederate States, did not sit well with publishers and developers within the studio at the time and many on the team were highly reluctant to do take part in the project. Sci-fi shooters were considered a "safe" genre to put shooters in and the few new IPs that attempted to set their games in the Second Great War sold poorly, especially on PC. To set a game in that time period and sell it to both the old PC and new console market was deemed too risky. With such a controversial setting the publishers feared it would not sell well in the Southern States or the Northern States and the possibility of enflaming Neo-Freedomite and Neo-Revaunchist groups was a real possibility.
The lead group pushing for this idea, however, managed to convince the rest of the development team to get on board after showing preliminary sketches, story drafts, and other notes in order to get their vision for the game across. By 1999, development on the game was well under way, with the studio taking some time to iron out the story concepts, graphics, game mechanics, and controls. Two military advisors and a number of historians were called in on the project to oversee certain aspects of development and provide a level of direction for the team in terms of authenticity. Friction between the two advisors early in development however nearly resulted in the entire project coming to a halt as the two men were former combatants who served on opposite sides of the war - a retired US army colonel and a former Confederate captain. Surprisingly it was the retired US colonel that criticized the game, saying it was a "dishonorable project". Even more surprising was that the former Confederate captain was able cooperate with the leading team in order to convince the colonel to continue advising the project, saying "it is more dishonorable to let the memory of those horrible times be repressed and manipulated by those who would make us fear the past."
More resistance to the project came in the form of a medal of honor recipient criticizing the project, going as far as to call out the dev team as "southern apologists" and "closet Freedomites" due to the small number of southerners working on the project. This time the recipient threatened to close down the project entirely, sending the publishers into frenzy, worrying that such negative attention ruin them. Once again, with help from the entire team, the medal of honor recipient was given a demonstration and a sneak peak at the game during it development. With help from the advisors in particular, the recipient backed down and went so far as to support the games release based on what he saw. This saved the game from complete cancellation.
Finally, on November 15, 2001 the game was released to the public on the American console system Playbox and PC, to the frustration of gamers who owned the German gaming system DreamCore. Contrary to fears and beyond the development teams' expectations the game received almost universal praise and enjoyed massive sales numbers. Critics praised the title's gameplay mechanics, controls, graphics, soundtrack, and especially multiplayer above all else, citing its fluidity and addicting nature in "putting the Greatest War in history into the hands of gamers". In fact its multiplayer element was its greatest draw for gamers on the Playbox console, who were able to get a unique and addicting multiplayer experience not offered to the same quality as other consoles on the market.
^^^ --- Johnny Peterson, better known as the "Master Sergeant", the player character and main protagonist of the game. As part of the later campaign events to defeat the Confederates in Pittsburgh, he is recruited by the US intelligence service and trained up as a commando to infiltrate behind enemy lines, dressed in a Confederate uniform and armed with a Tredegar Automatic Rifle. Players quickly grew to love his character and critics
The single player campaign was also highly praised for its in-depth, gritty, gripping, and emotional story. Starting off in the year 1942, the player is cast as a US soldier named Johnny Peterson on the front lines in Pennsylvania, thrown into the Battle of Pittsburgh at the height of its intensity as the Confederates drive hard into the city. Through numerous battles across the city and surrounding area the player as Johnny experiences the battle first hand, fighting Confederates street by street, field by field, and house by house.
^^^ --- Mary Adams, secondary protagonist of the game. A native of Pittsburgh, she was originally a factory worker, but earned her gun by fighting off Confederates in the factory districts of the city along side US soldiers, being a worker when there was no fighting and a soldier when there was. The player as Johnny Peterson meets her during a mission to defend the factory she works at from a Confederate assault. She quickly became a popular character among fans and was highly praised by critics.
The player character, after numerous battles within the city fighting along side his squad and Mary, is eventually wounded in action. While recovering he is recommended by his superiors to join an elite commando group to infiltrate behind Confederate lines in advance of a massive counter offensive to encircle the enemy. Disguised as a Confederate soldier the player infiltrates behind enemy lines and wreaks havoc, opening the way for a push by US soldiers to start the encirclement of the city.
The game ends with the player victorious, looking west toward Ohio, into an uncertain yet hopeful future.
^^^ --- Loading screen from the game, showing a US soldier atop a destroyed Confederate barrel.
The game would go on to spawn several sequels, with the second and third installments being even more massively successful than the first title, putting the player character on the front lines to liberate Ohio and eventually take part in Operation Rosebud. The game also inspired many "copycats" and that hoped to "kill" the franchise and become the next big game. It effectively ended the dominance of sci-fi shooters in the market, practically creating the "Second Great War FPS" overnight with its popularity. Its success also encouraged gaming studios to finally branch out and tackle the Second Great War as viable setting for future games.
For example, in Germany, the most famous and most successful of the "copycats" inspired by Medal of Honor was the Cross of Iron franchise that was released in 2003 to massive success Europe and North America, effectively becoming Medal of Honor's rival in the market place. Cross of Iron takes place in 1941 on the "Ost Front" against the Russians in Poland, Ukraine, and Germany, with players experiencing the battles on that front in a similar fashion as Medal of Honor.
Another title that originally released in Japan on the Saigo's new Gameblok that also took influence from Medal of Honor was called Journey to Palace Amarapura, a Second Great War game that had a heavy occult-fantasy twist to it that allowed for different type of gameplay. It centered on a Japanese special forces unit tasked with infiltrating India and defeating a British Silver Shirt occult organization bent on harnessing the power of the Hindu gods to conquer the rest of the world for the monarch of Britain. Although not historically accurate in the slightest, it also received massive success in Asia.
Medal of Honor had since gone down in history as being one of the most influential games of all time.
Medal of Honor (2001)
By the early 2000s, competition within the first-person shooter market was starting to increase dramatically, with the genre dominated by sci-fi games. In 1998, developers at a new gaming studio decided to create a brand new first-person shooter IP set in the Second Great War. The idea of setting a game in the Second Great War, especially the war in North America the between United States and the former Confederate States, did not sit well with publishers and developers within the studio at the time and many on the team were highly reluctant to do take part in the project. Sci-fi shooters were considered a "safe" genre to put shooters in and the few new IPs that attempted to set their games in the Second Great War sold poorly, especially on PC. To set a game in that time period and sell it to both the old PC and new console market was deemed too risky. With such a controversial setting the publishers feared it would not sell well in the Southern States or the Northern States and the possibility of enflaming Neo-Freedomite and Neo-Revaunchist groups was a real possibility.
The lead group pushing for this idea, however, managed to convince the rest of the development team to get on board after showing preliminary sketches, story drafts, and other notes in order to get their vision for the game across. By 1999, development on the game was well under way, with the studio taking some time to iron out the story concepts, graphics, game mechanics, and controls. Two military advisors and a number of historians were called in on the project to oversee certain aspects of development and provide a level of direction for the team in terms of authenticity. Friction between the two advisors early in development however nearly resulted in the entire project coming to a halt as the two men were former combatants who served on opposite sides of the war - a retired US army colonel and a former Confederate captain. Surprisingly it was the retired US colonel that criticized the game, saying it was a "dishonorable project". Even more surprising was that the former Confederate captain was able cooperate with the leading team in order to convince the colonel to continue advising the project, saying "it is more dishonorable to let the memory of those horrible times be repressed and manipulated by those who would make us fear the past."
More resistance to the project came in the form of a medal of honor recipient criticizing the project, going as far as to call out the dev team as "southern apologists" and "closet Freedomites" due to the small number of southerners working on the project. This time the recipient threatened to close down the project entirely, sending the publishers into frenzy, worrying that such negative attention ruin them. Once again, with help from the entire team, the medal of honor recipient was given a demonstration and a sneak peak at the game during it development. With help from the advisors in particular, the recipient backed down and went so far as to support the games release based on what he saw. This saved the game from complete cancellation.
Finally, on November 15, 2001 the game was released to the public on the American console system Playbox and PC, to the frustration of gamers who owned the German gaming system DreamCore. Contrary to fears and beyond the development teams' expectations the game received almost universal praise and enjoyed massive sales numbers. Critics praised the title's gameplay mechanics, controls, graphics, soundtrack, and especially multiplayer above all else, citing its fluidity and addicting nature in "putting the Greatest War in history into the hands of gamers". In fact its multiplayer element was its greatest draw for gamers on the Playbox console, who were able to get a unique and addicting multiplayer experience not offered to the same quality as other consoles on the market.
^^^ --- Johnny Peterson, better known as the "Master Sergeant", the player character and main protagonist of the game. As part of the later campaign events to defeat the Confederates in Pittsburgh, he is recruited by the US intelligence service and trained up as a commando to infiltrate behind enemy lines, dressed in a Confederate uniform and armed with a Tredegar Automatic Rifle. Players quickly grew to love his character and critics
The single player campaign was also highly praised for its in-depth, gritty, gripping, and emotional story. Starting off in the year 1942, the player is cast as a US soldier named Johnny Peterson on the front lines in Pennsylvania, thrown into the Battle of Pittsburgh at the height of its intensity as the Confederates drive hard into the city. Through numerous battles across the city and surrounding area the player as Johnny experiences the battle first hand, fighting Confederates street by street, field by field, and house by house.
^^^ --- Mary Adams, secondary protagonist of the game. A native of Pittsburgh, she was originally a factory worker, but earned her gun by fighting off Confederates in the factory districts of the city along side US soldiers, being a worker when there was no fighting and a soldier when there was. The player as Johnny Peterson meets her during a mission to defend the factory she works at from a Confederate assault. She quickly became a popular character among fans and was highly praised by critics.
The player character, after numerous battles within the city fighting along side his squad and Mary, is eventually wounded in action. While recovering he is recommended by his superiors to join an elite commando group to infiltrate behind Confederate lines in advance of a massive counter offensive to encircle the enemy. Disguised as a Confederate soldier the player infiltrates behind enemy lines and wreaks havoc, opening the way for a push by US soldiers to start the encirclement of the city.
The game ends with the player victorious, looking west toward Ohio, into an uncertain yet hopeful future.
^^^ --- Loading screen from the game, showing a US soldier atop a destroyed Confederate barrel.
The game would go on to spawn several sequels, with the second and third installments being even more massively successful than the first title, putting the player character on the front lines to liberate Ohio and eventually take part in Operation Rosebud. The game also inspired many "copycats" and that hoped to "kill" the franchise and become the next big game. It effectively ended the dominance of sci-fi shooters in the market, practically creating the "Second Great War FPS" overnight with its popularity. Its success also encouraged gaming studios to finally branch out and tackle the Second Great War as viable setting for future games.
For example, in Germany, the most famous and most successful of the "copycats" inspired by Medal of Honor was the Cross of Iron franchise that was released in 2003 to massive success Europe and North America, effectively becoming Medal of Honor's rival in the market place. Cross of Iron takes place in 1941 on the "Ost Front" against the Russians in Poland, Ukraine, and Germany, with players experiencing the battles on that front in a similar fashion as Medal of Honor.
Another title that originally released in Japan on the Saigo's new Gameblok that also took influence from Medal of Honor was called Journey to Palace Amarapura, a Second Great War game that had a heavy occult-fantasy twist to it that allowed for different type of gameplay. It centered on a Japanese special forces unit tasked with infiltrating India and defeating a British Silver Shirt occult organization bent on harnessing the power of the Hindu gods to conquer the rest of the world for the monarch of Britain. Although not historically accurate in the slightest, it also received massive success in Asia.
Medal of Honor had since gone down in history as being one of the most influential games of all time.
My post was a little base off of Kasierriech of the same thing. (In South Africa, he writes a book called The Fall of Numenor, in which the island of Numenor tries to liberate Middle Earth from Sauron but Numenor becomes corrupt and sinks into the ocean except a few uncorrupt people who escape the island to new far away lands.)
J.R.R Tolkien and CS. Lewis are such big names in literature and me being fans of them both, it seem to me an crime to have them killed in TL-191 Great War so I had them both lived and go into exile in the 30s.
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More from me and @Joshua Ben Ari...
Maybe a lot of adaptations of Lovecraft for British studios in the initial "we hate Germany" phase of the 1940s and 50s, with eventual rapprochement by the late 1950s. For everything, I see a strong undercurrent of anti-Americanism in Britain - they've fought 5 wars in the span of nearly 200 years, Britain was the personification of The Enemy in the United States.
American Steampunk would mostly focus on the Era of Good Feelings, Jacksonian democracy and some alternate history where the South is (always) defeated but the GOP is still beaten by the Socialists and Democrats. You see a lot of rugged frontiersman-style movies about Americans taming the New Wild West in the Northern Territories (as Americans will refer to Canada).
I could also see Lord Dunsany (Edward Plunkett, 18th Baron of Dunsany) being a huge name in the fantasy genre along with Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. He was, in OTL, a huge influence on the fantasy genre across both sides of the Atlantic - even despite the tensions between the US and Britain, I still see him having a following in the US and other English-speaking countries.
Especially in the post-war era, Lord Dunsany might be the catalyst for British fantasy writers and the one who leads the charge, which inspires Tolkien and Lewis to return to Britain and write and publish their works.
How very interesting! I don't think I heard of Lord Dunsany before, but he certainly seem like an very fascinating figure to play with.
Don't know if this kind of thing belongs here, but here it goes! Cookie and kudos to whoever correctly guesses the allusion to a certain OTL game released on the release date mentioned here
Medal of Honor (2001)
View attachment 448186
.
Well done! I really enjoy this! ( Rising Sun and European Assault are the ones I played to death.)
He wrote a book called The King of Elfland's Daughter (1924), and it was highly influential in the development of both fairytale fantasy and high fantasy. Lord Dunsany was a huge influence on both Tolkien and Lewis, and I can see his works being the pull that brought the two back to Britain from their exile in Australia and New Zealand.
-The existence of a successful Socialist Party (and the growth of labor unions aligned with the Socialists), means that the USA will have a much more visible “left-wing” culture in terms of music, art, filmmaking, and literature. A lot of popular songs, for example, would probably be rooted in labor ballads. There would an effort by some artists, novelists, filmmakers, playwrights, and musicians to create a truely authentic (and democratic) American culture that reflects the ostensible virtues of the working classes and the positive vision of heroes like Lincoln, Debs, and Upton Sinclair.
Above all else, US culture would be held up against the horrors and atrocities committed by the USA’s neighbor to the south...
-The post-SGW culture of the USA will still be heavily influenced by the German Empire. Even though the US won’t receive anything like the wave of German-speaking artists, writers, musicians, and filmmakers who fled the Third Reich IOTL, American filmmakers will still be heavily influenced by any analogues that exist in TL-191 to Expressionism.
-Film noir (likely called something different in this world) will be very prevalent in TTL, especially during the first generation after the war. Filmmakers would use Noir-settings to explore themes like racism, greed, social corruption, and immediate postwar problems like reintegrating veterans.
-The musical landscape will be very different from OTL. As others have pointed out, the existence of the viciously racist (and ultimately genocidal) CSA in TL-191 means that African- American musicians will not have the same opportunities as in our world. This would be compounded by a general US dislike of any music that sounds too “Southern.”
An analogue to Jazz (and popular music in general) in the US would take its cues from locales such as New York City’s Tinpan Alley (in the continuation that I wrote, I imagined that the analogue to Jazz was called “Tinpan”). It’s likely that it would ultimately by TTL’s 1940s sound a lot like our world’s Northern Big Bands, but slower paced and sadder.
Like in OTL, it’s likely that “Big Band” Tinpan would gradually be supplanted by smaller groups that could be more affordable by nightclubs. Given how much more austere the US postwar economy would be compared to our world’s, this might actually happen sooner.
-Rock and Roll will not exist (and, of course, all of the forms and genres derived from Rock IOTL). The genre has its roots overwhelmingly in Southern musical genres, after all, and the devastated former CSA will be in no position to produce anything similar to OTL rock.
-Science fiction would be popular, especially as the USA and the German Empire compete in the field of Space Exploration. I don’t think that any program similar to Star Trek would exist, simply because American audiences (or Austro-Hungarian or German audiences) would not be able to suspend their disbelief at a futuristic Federation-type of state not having a massive permanent military force.
An analogue to Star Wars is more likely, but without the optimism of our world’s A New Hope. Instead of following a Hero’s Journey, such a film would probably be closer to Sergio Leone’s The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly in terms of blending the “good”, “bad”, and “ugly” aspects of its characters.
-Given the number of superbombs used at the end of the SGW (which included the near destruction of Philadelphia), apocalyptic themes are likely to be present across American fiction in the postwar years.
Above all else, US culture would be held up against the horrors and atrocities committed by the USA’s neighbor to the south...
-The post-SGW culture of the USA will still be heavily influenced by the German Empire. Even though the US won’t receive anything like the wave of German-speaking artists, writers, musicians, and filmmakers who fled the Third Reich IOTL, American filmmakers will still be heavily influenced by any analogues that exist in TL-191 to Expressionism.
-Film noir (likely called something different in this world) will be very prevalent in TTL, especially during the first generation after the war. Filmmakers would use Noir-settings to explore themes like racism, greed, social corruption, and immediate postwar problems like reintegrating veterans.
-The musical landscape will be very different from OTL. As others have pointed out, the existence of the viciously racist (and ultimately genocidal) CSA in TL-191 means that African- American musicians will not have the same opportunities as in our world. This would be compounded by a general US dislike of any music that sounds too “Southern.”
An analogue to Jazz (and popular music in general) in the US would take its cues from locales such as New York City’s Tinpan Alley (in the continuation that I wrote, I imagined that the analogue to Jazz was called “Tinpan”). It’s likely that it would ultimately by TTL’s 1940s sound a lot like our world’s Northern Big Bands, but slower paced and sadder.
Like in OTL, it’s likely that “Big Band” Tinpan would gradually be supplanted by smaller groups that could be more affordable by nightclubs. Given how much more austere the US postwar economy would be compared to our world’s, this might actually happen sooner.
-Rock and Roll will not exist (and, of course, all of the forms and genres derived from Rock IOTL). The genre has its roots overwhelmingly in Southern musical genres, after all, and the devastated former CSA will be in no position to produce anything similar to OTL rock.
-Science fiction would be popular, especially as the USA and the German Empire compete in the field of Space Exploration. I don’t think that any program similar to Star Trek would exist, simply because American audiences (or Austro-Hungarian or German audiences) would not be able to suspend their disbelief at a futuristic Federation-type of state not having a massive permanent military force.
An analogue to Star Wars is more likely, but without the optimism of our world’s A New Hope. Instead of following a Hero’s Journey, such a film would probably be closer to Sergio Leone’s The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly in terms of blending the “good”, “bad”, and “ugly” aspects of its characters.
-Given the number of superbombs used at the end of the SGW (which included the near destruction of Philadelphia), apocalyptic themes are likely to be present across American fiction in the postwar years.
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Promotional still from the 2011 film Colonel Union: Walk In Hell
Colonel Union, the iconic red, white, and blue clad boy from New York who would go on to be a cornerstone of american pop-culture, started life in the pages of MLJ Magazines as a rejected advertising mascot for the Boy Scouts of America back in 1938. The youthful patriotically theme character design would catch the eye of one Stanley Kirby, a colourist for many of the cartoons published by MLJ. Taking the ques from the flag theme mascots, Kirby refined the design before enlisting his friend and writer Irv Simon to craft a story which they pitched to the editors of MLJ Magazines. Together they pitched the story of Stephen Higgins, a sickly young man from New York's Lower East Side who's father is murdered by Freedomite thugs but not before passing on his secret to his son, a miracle dug that granted Stephen incredible powers. Driven by a desire to defend the helpless and seek justice for his fathers killers, Higgins would become Colonel Union.
With tensions between the USA and Featherston's CSA rising daily, MLJ Magazines (now going under the name Wonder Comics) wanted to cash in on the rising patriotic wave rising in the US and quickly approved the comic for publication. Colonel Union was an instant success and become one of Wonder Comics flagship properties, along side their Sentinels of Liberty team book, and spawning countless cartoons and movie adaptions.
Buchanan Barnes, aka The White Skull, has been Colonel Union's longest and most memorable foes. Originally a simple henchman with an interesting mask, Barnes would later be rewritten and upgraded to be Higgin's greatest nemesis, the man behind his fathers murder and a failed copy of the experiment that gave Higgins his powers.
OOC: So yeah, Timeline-191 Captain America. I decided to blend of The Shield into the mix too to add a touch of flavour
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Never got to play Medal of Honor on PC, so I only got the console versions of them. I ended up playing Frontline, Rising Sun, and European Assault.
For this one, I decided to make it like a "Super-Medal of Honor" or "Halo With a WWII Skin". So imagine Medal of Honor's aesthetic and tone, but with Halo's fluid controls and gameplay. Its very hard, I know
but I the point I was trying to make is that this game would be kind of a turning point in gaming for many reason. Also, no one got the references to Wolfenstein or even Call of Duty or the game consoles. This makes the man sad
Never got to play Medal of Honor on PC, so I only got the console versions of them. I ended up playing Frontline, Rising Sun, and European Assault.
For this one, I decided to make it like a "Super-Medal of Honor" or "Halo With a WWII Skin". So imagine Medal of Honor's aesthetic and tone, but with Halo's fluid controls and gameplay. Its very hard, I know
Also, no one got the references to Wolfenstein or even Call of Duty or the game consoles. This makes the man sad
Oh! I see them. I like Cross of Iron, and I really love Journey to Palace Amarapura. I think its an nice show of differences and all that. (And makes you think about the British and Freach having occult feelings. The closest you could find that in the South would be bible thumper, Featherstonists, Bioshock Infinite loons.)