alternatehistory.com
1337-8: France and England
1337-8: "ALL WE ARE SAYING IS GIVE PEACE A CHANCE."
"...By 1337, the incipient war between England and France had become a preoccupation for the Papacy, pushing aside such matters as various crusades, both proposed and ongoing, the continuing troubles in Italy and the Papal States, the unresolved conflict with the Holy Roman Emperor, the worsening war between Naples and Sicily and several theological disputes of increasing severity[1]. In some respects, this was the inevitable result of the move to Avignon, which had removed whatever distance the Papacy had possessed as regards France and England's squabbles, both figuratively and literally. The mere threat of fighting in Gascony had already produced destabilizing ripples felt in Provence, while the steady increase of French Cardinals meant that the concerns of Jean's court were at least partially the concern of the Pope's court... With signs that the conflict might be stalling, Pope John saw an opportunity to play the peacemaker...
"His chosen emissaries for this project from the College of Cardinals were woefully unqualified for the task. Bertrand de Montfavence was a Provencal ecclesiastic lawyer; Pedro Gomez de Barroso was the Chamberlain of the College[2]. Neither had much in the way of experience in diplomacy[3]--in all likelihood, the primary reason for their selection was the combination of their shared seniority in the College, and the fact that neither of them was French[4]...
"This underwhelming choice was followed by further inauspicious omens for the mission's success. The cardinals' initial meeting with King Jean found the French monarch worryingly ambivalent on the prospect of peace. While the Duke of Anjou, already worried about the cost, was quite enthusiastic about the negotiations, Jean was not[5]... Convinced he had the English at his mercy, he was suspicious that the Papacy was intriguing to protect English holdings in France. Montfavence and de Barroso both saw the increasingly ascendant hand of Robert of Artois in this belief. While this was most likely a rather good guess on their part, Robert was most likely only building on the king's prejudices. In the end, it was the recommendations of another favorite, John of Bohemia that saw the mission sent grudgingly forward... John likely did so less from a desire for peace and more from a desire to keep the Papacy's good graces in his struggles against Louis of Bavaria... Ironically, Jean's actions made things easier for Edward--by the time the King of France had sent the cardinals forward to discuss a possible truce, the Prince had seen his hoped for invasion delayed, making quite willing to talk[6].
"That was all that the Prince was willing to do. The simple fact was that, despite a truce being quite tempting for Edward, any such move taken unilaterally on his part would void all his expensive treaties with the German Princes. Indeed, even the knowledge that he was talking about such a move risked the Germans abandoning the alliance. Thus the Prince took the only path open for him, using the talks to play for time. Meeting the cardinals in the Painted Chamber--hardly the most auspicious place for a peace mission to meet[7]--the Prince explained that has Great Steward, he required the assent of his father and Parliament. Further, as England and Gascony required allies, he had been obligated to seek them out and having done so, could not on his honor as a prince abandon them. The cardinals, still prickly from their treatment at Jean of France, were not impressed by these arguments, and told the Prince as much[8]... In meetings with the English clergy, the cardinals hinted at threats of excommunication and similar punishments for the lower-ranking members of the English Church who backed the war. In the end, these arguments did the cardinals little good--instead they only increased resentment among the English Church and convinced them that the Papacy was in the pocket of the French[9]... The Prince's offer of a cessation of hostilities between England and France that would serve as a de facto truce came not because of the Cardinals' efforts, but in spite of them[10]...
"Ironically, by the time the mission could show any progress with the English court, it had lost what standing it had in France. Setbacks in the naval strategy had seen the Duke of Anjou utterly eclipsed in Jean's eyes[11]--with him gone, Jean's previous distrust of the papal mission reasserted itself. In the end, the only thing that the cardinals had gained from their efforts was a completely mistaken impression of how affairs stood in England, imagining a powerful peace party that did not in fact exist[12]..."
--Behind the Stone Walls of Avignon, by Emily Gordon (1983)
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[1] This was pretty much the case IOTL--matters like the ongoing debate over Master Eckhart's followers took the backseat to "Oh, crap, war is breaking out next door."
[2] These were the men chosen IOTL.
[3] This was the case IOTL as well. Bertrand had once been a (minor) part of a diplomatic mission to Italy for a few months, but that was it.
[4] In as much as any rationale for the choice in Cardinals can be determined, this is it. It might seem strange to count a Provencal cardinal as "not a Frenchman", but again, Provence was under the rule of Naples in those days. If that seems slender, it should be pointed out that Castile was a long-time ally of France--as decisions go, these were not particularly good, but the best that Avignon could muster.
[5] IOTL, Philip was likewise quite keen on a truce by this time, as he was watching the war destroy his treasury.
[6] IOTL, without John of France to do the job for him, Edward III delayed the cardinals for months.
[7] The Painted Chamber was covered with images of William of Normandy's conquest of England. And yes, this is where Edward met the cardinals IOTL.
[8] Edward attempted similar dodges IOTL and was met with, if anything, even more skepticism from the cardinals.
[9] IOTL, the cardinals held a formal service where they openly threatened English clergymen who would not support France in the war. It did not go over well.
[10] Edward produced a similar "not quite a truce" IOTL, again largely based on what he wanted rather than the cardinals' efforts.
[11] More on this in the near future. Suffice to say that the truce talks fizzled IOTL albeit a little less dramatically and with less bad feelings all around.
[12] This was the case IOTL. The Papacy throughout the early portions of the Hundred Years War demonstrated a ruinous failure to grasp the political needs of both sides.
"...By 1337, the incipient war between England and France had become a preoccupation for the Papacy, pushing aside such matters as various crusades, both proposed and ongoing, the continuing troubles in Italy and the Papal States, the unresolved conflict with the Holy Roman Emperor, the worsening war between Naples and Sicily and several theological disputes of increasing severity[1]. In some respects, this was the inevitable result of the move to Avignon, which had removed whatever distance the Papacy had possessed as regards France and England's squabbles, both figuratively and literally. The mere threat of fighting in Gascony had already produced destabilizing ripples felt in Provence, while the steady increase of French Cardinals meant that the concerns of Jean's court were at least partially the concern of the Pope's court... With signs that the conflict might be stalling, Pope John saw an opportunity to play the peacemaker...
"His chosen emissaries for this project from the College of Cardinals were woefully unqualified for the task. Bertrand de Montfavence was a Provencal ecclesiastic lawyer; Pedro Gomez de Barroso was the Chamberlain of the College[2]. Neither had much in the way of experience in diplomacy[3]--in all likelihood, the primary reason for their selection was the combination of their shared seniority in the College, and the fact that neither of them was French[4]...
"This underwhelming choice was followed by further inauspicious omens for the mission's success. The cardinals' initial meeting with King Jean found the French monarch worryingly ambivalent on the prospect of peace. While the Duke of Anjou, already worried about the cost, was quite enthusiastic about the negotiations, Jean was not[5]... Convinced he had the English at his mercy, he was suspicious that the Papacy was intriguing to protect English holdings in France. Montfavence and de Barroso both saw the increasingly ascendant hand of Robert of Artois in this belief. While this was most likely a rather good guess on their part, Robert was most likely only building on the king's prejudices. In the end, it was the recommendations of another favorite, John of Bohemia that saw the mission sent grudgingly forward... John likely did so less from a desire for peace and more from a desire to keep the Papacy's good graces in his struggles against Louis of Bavaria... Ironically, Jean's actions made things easier for Edward--by the time the King of France had sent the cardinals forward to discuss a possible truce, the Prince had seen his hoped for invasion delayed, making quite willing to talk[6].
"That was all that the Prince was willing to do. The simple fact was that, despite a truce being quite tempting for Edward, any such move taken unilaterally on his part would void all his expensive treaties with the German Princes. Indeed, even the knowledge that he was talking about such a move risked the Germans abandoning the alliance. Thus the Prince took the only path open for him, using the talks to play for time. Meeting the cardinals in the Painted Chamber--hardly the most auspicious place for a peace mission to meet[7]--the Prince explained that has Great Steward, he required the assent of his father and Parliament. Further, as England and Gascony required allies, he had been obligated to seek them out and having done so, could not on his honor as a prince abandon them. The cardinals, still prickly from their treatment at Jean of France, were not impressed by these arguments, and told the Prince as much[8]... In meetings with the English clergy, the cardinals hinted at threats of excommunication and similar punishments for the lower-ranking members of the English Church who backed the war. In the end, these arguments did the cardinals little good--instead they only increased resentment among the English Church and convinced them that the Papacy was in the pocket of the French[9]... The Prince's offer of a cessation of hostilities between England and France that would serve as a de facto truce came not because of the Cardinals' efforts, but in spite of them[10]...
"Ironically, by the time the mission could show any progress with the English court, it had lost what standing it had in France. Setbacks in the naval strategy had seen the Duke of Anjou utterly eclipsed in Jean's eyes[11]--with him gone, Jean's previous distrust of the papal mission reasserted itself. In the end, the only thing that the cardinals had gained from their efforts was a completely mistaken impression of how affairs stood in England, imagining a powerful peace party that did not in fact exist[12]..."
--Behind the Stone Walls of Avignon, by Emily Gordon (1983)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] This was pretty much the case IOTL--matters like the ongoing debate over Master Eckhart's followers took the backseat to "Oh, crap, war is breaking out next door."
[2] These were the men chosen IOTL.
[3] This was the case IOTL as well. Bertrand had once been a (minor) part of a diplomatic mission to Italy for a few months, but that was it.
[4] In as much as any rationale for the choice in Cardinals can be determined, this is it. It might seem strange to count a Provencal cardinal as "not a Frenchman", but again, Provence was under the rule of Naples in those days. If that seems slender, it should be pointed out that Castile was a long-time ally of France--as decisions go, these were not particularly good, but the best that Avignon could muster.
[5] IOTL, Philip was likewise quite keen on a truce by this time, as he was watching the war destroy his treasury.
[6] IOTL, without John of France to do the job for him, Edward III delayed the cardinals for months.
[7] The Painted Chamber was covered with images of William of Normandy's conquest of England. And yes, this is where Edward met the cardinals IOTL.
[8] Edward attempted similar dodges IOTL and was met with, if anything, even more skepticism from the cardinals.
[9] IOTL, the cardinals held a formal service where they openly threatened English clergymen who would not support France in the war. It did not go over well.
[10] Edward produced a similar "not quite a truce" IOTL, again largely based on what he wanted rather than the cardinals' efforts.
[11] More on this in the near future. Suffice to say that the truce talks fizzled IOTL albeit a little less dramatically and with less bad feelings all around.
[12] This was the case IOTL. The Papacy throughout the early portions of the Hundred Years War demonstrated a ruinous failure to grasp the political needs of both sides.
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