What does your ideal surviving Roman Empire look like?

Albert.Nik

Banned
Italy,Balkans,Anatolia,Parts of Eastern Caucasus,Most of Syria,Lebanon and Jordan and Egypt. This is the best case scenario for them to survie. Gaul,Hispania and others are left for Germanics to settle after they invade them. The capital is located in Greece region or is Rome itself. Considering it would be the former(Byzantium) establishing such an Empire,it would be in Greece. The majority of citizens are Greek as Italy and Northern Balkans are the only non Greek regions. Egypt,Levant and Mesopotamia are all heavily Hellenized.
 
Background: Sultan Mehmed let the last of the Byzantines to exile in Crete despite this being a character assassination.

A rump state in Crete that is 75% Greek 87% Greek Orthodox Christian. Its culture is very "The south will rise again" seeing past glories as a golden age that if they tried (aka invade all the former roman empire) they could retake what they call "The Roman honors". On the global stage it has the respect a nation of that has survived longer then any other ( no San Marino ). But is treated politely as a old rambling man would. It living standards are not the best nor the worst either there still is a massive divide between rich and poor and a very small middle class. It has received some criticism from some nations for aggressive foreign policy for a war in Cyprus it has been called the Byzantine Vietnam. Inside the "Empire" they refer themselves as Romans. The Emperor since "The great fall" (The exile from Constantinople) Has been a mere puppet for the generals and rich a small senate with suffrage for those who own land only men can vote. This is my realistic Rome My absolute dream Rome owns all of Europe and has a moon base.
 
My perfect Rome is fluid, migrating every few hundred years as needed.

First Rome- based out of Rome (founding-476)

Second Rome- based out of Constantinople (476-717)

Third Rome- based out of Antioch (717-907)

Fourth Rome- based out of Persepolis (907-1225)

Fifth Rome- based out of Delhi (1225-1389)

Sixth Rome- based out of Bengal (1389-1526)

Seventh Rome- based out of Ayutthaya (1526-1765)

Eight Rome- based out of Guangzhou (1765-1842)

Ninth Rome- based out of San Fransisco (1843-1906)

Tenth Rome- based out of New York (1906-1929)

Eleventh Rome- based out of Lisbon (1929-1970)

Twelfth Rome- based out of Rome (1970-present)

No one understands how they've maintained legal continuity across time, geography, and culture, but somehow they've managed.

They swear each move made sense at the time.
 
My version in a map. I was bored.
 

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*Ignores OP restrictions*

The boundaries over which the Kayseri-i-rum rules, of course.

OttomanEmpireMain.png

I am not sorry.
 
*pushes glasses up* well I thought mine was alright

Yeah me too. The map you posted, is a bit more manageable and not (quite) so hard to imagine. Looks a bit like the Roman Republic circa 146BC. Could use a bit of explanation though! How does this empire come about?

In terms of my comment, I was thinking more of the guys who posted long descriptions. Why would Rome occupy such vast territories 1500 years after the western empire collapsed? It's just totally unrealistic.

The one exception was the guy who posted that Rome will span the entire world. I liked that.
 
Yours is about as realistic as half these fantasies.:p

At least my empire was small and not particularly powerful. This implies that it has experienced its fair share of defeats and disasters, has probably lost more often than it won, yet has somehow survived. The thing is the Roman Empire surviving at all is already pretty unlikely, so at least if it is small that requires less suspension of disbelief.

But scenarios involving a massive empire imply that somehow the Romans managed to consistently win again and again, for thousands of years. That just isn't plausible, reality doesn't work like that. Sooner or later, they're bound to suffer defeats, civil wars, dynastic disputes, it's in the nature of things. If they're going to exist at all, they should at least expect to be defeated as often as they win.

Just my opinion.
 
Yeah me too. The map you posted, is a bit more manageable and not (quite) so hard to imagine. Looks a bit like the Roman Republic circa 146BC. Could use a bit of explanation though! How does this empire come about?

In terms of my comment, I was thinking more of the guys who posted long descriptions. Why would Rome occupy such vast territories 1500 years after the western empire collapsed? It's just totally unrealistic.

The one exception was the guy who posted that Rome will span the entire world. I liked that.

In my defense, i didn't put a detailed history of tge empire because i know my ideal version would depend of many luck to happen, but i imagine thattmy version of the Roman Empire would still have lost most of the western territories, staying only with Italy, North Africa and parts of Spain, but would become rich again in the late Middle ages thanks to the naval power in the Mediterranean and at the expense of the crescent instability of the eastern half , helping and recognizing separatist states such as Egypt as long as they pay tributes to the western emperor (meanwhile the ERE still deals with invasions). This power would allow the WRE to retake their western territories of Hispania and Galia .

Or something like this.
 
Let's say that by whatever means the Roman Empire has managed to survive until the modern day. In your ideal (while still being somewhat plausible) world, what would this surviving Rome look like?
  • What territory does it control?
  • What is its government?
  • What is its religious situation?
  • How does it look demographically?
  • How powerful is it on the world stage?
  • What is modern Roman society like? Anything interesting about the culture that you'd like to share?
You do not have to strictly adhere to this list, its just a few things that I'd be interested in knowing about.

With that in mind, there are a couple restrictions:
  • The most common language must be either Latin or Greek.
  • It must be a direct continuation of the Empire in one of its various forms - i.e., no Charlemagne or Ottomans.

The Roman Republic adapts to its expansionism better, and industrializes in the first few centuries AD.

Territory: Everything within a few light years of Sol, ceremonial capital is Roma, administrative capital is the Romulus Orbital Habitat
Government: Federal Republic
Religion: Pluralistic, but Chalcedonian Christianity is pre-eminent, under the care of the Pope
Demographics: 100% Roman Citizens
Political Power: A few dissident groups exist on the bleeding edge of the ever-expanding sphere of Roman influence throughout our corner of the galaxy, but far more than 99% of all territory, wealth, and population is under Roman governance
Society: Too diverse to describe. As long as everyone pays their taxes and the men sign up for military service (a formality, when there's only one government left), the state is generally content to let everyone live their lives as they see fit.

I don't think its possible to top that, without invoking FTL and straying too far into ASB territory.
 
At least my empire was small and not particularly powerful. This implies that it has experienced its fair share of defeats and disasters, has probably lost more often than it won, yet has somehow survived. The thing is the Roman Empire surviving at all is already pretty unlikely, so at least if it is small that requires less suspension of disbelief.

But scenarios involving a massive empire imply that somehow the Romans managed to consistently win again and again, for thousands of years. That just isn't plausible, reality doesn't work like that. Sooner or later, they're bound to suffer defeats, civil wars, dynastic disputes, it's in the nature of things. If they're going to exist at all, they should at least expect to be defeated as often as they win.

Just my opinion.


L Sprague de Camp would probably have agreed with you.

In his The Wheels of If, in a alt-20C there was a Greek-speaking "Roman Empire" holding Asia Minor, the southern Balkans, and the toe of Italy.
 
The Vatican City. That way it's too small to do any real harm, whatever its form of government.

If you think about it, the Vatican IS the closest thing of a surviving Western Roman Empire in OTL

Rules over a big part of humanity : check

Has a "pretorian guard" (swiss g): check

The leader yses the title "pontifice maximus": check

The capital is (in) Rome: check

Official language is latin: check

Worldly important: check

The leader is seen as a sacred figure: check

Suffered because of successful "rebellions " and "invasions" from a germanic force (protestantism): check
 
Constitutional monarchy, Parliamentary with figurehead monarch similar to the UK. Territory of all of Anatolia, including Armenia, Lazica, and Georgia, and all of the Baltics up to the Danube and Sava Rivers, including the Dalmatian coast, and also the entire Crimea, Cyprus, and Crete, as well as Cilicia to Antioch, and an enclave of Tripoli in the East. Close relationship with independent nations of Sicily and the Kingdom of Naples, and a friendly rivalry with an Italian state.

The population is vastly Orthodox Christian, with considerable populations of other Christian sects (Notably Catholics and Assyrians), Muslims, Jews, and Protestants, including Eastern Orthodox-flavor Protestants. The population mostly speaks Greek/Rhomeike, but 1/3 speaks it as a second language, after Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and other minority languages like Albanian (especially in Hellas).

About 2/3 are ethnic Romans, largely in Anatolia, Thrace, Macedonia, and the Aegean islands, and in urban areas. They are a great power with considerable influence in the Levant and Egypt, and the wider Mediterranean, and a contender for the largest economy in Europe (as well as the largest population). They lag some western European countries in growth and industrialization, but are culturally similar with a mostly secular civil society and openness to the world.

Major political factions align the urban Roman populace with minorities and peripheral regions with a pro-western and secular outlook, against a strong bloc of religious conservatives and rural ethnic Rhomans that are more nationalistic and align with minority nationalist parties to with the aim to create church-connected nation-states.
 
Roman state controlling modern Greece and Turkey would be enough for me, to be honest. Not too large, so they wouldn't be facing any separatist groups at all. Easily feasible without major POD, had things turned out differently. A Republic or Federation would be feasible, as I don't see monarchy lasting all the way until the modern day.

That's the accurate and possible Rome. For my ideal, well, I would include the Balkans up to Danube, Levant and Egypt as well. Maybe even Southern Italy. Not much of a Latinate Rome fan, to be honest, so I don't care about Italy or modern France. Constitutional Monarchy with the Senate would be ideal. As for the demographics, it would be mostly Greek speaking (Greece, Anatolia, some parts of Italy, Levant and Egypt, as well as Syrians, Egyptians. Religiously Orthodox, mostly. In a modern age it would still be considered one of the Greater powers, but more akin to UK of today, as there would surely be some other superpower present.
 
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