The Great Intermission Mended - A United Western Europe Collaborative Project

Opening Post
►The Great Intermission Mended◄
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A United Western Europe Collaborative Project

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Presentation:

Welcome everyone. This is another project of the many that have sprouted in the last few weeks about a collaboration of maps, timeline, wikiboxes and other resources about a different world. In a few words, an alternate history collaborative worldbuilding project. Most of the later incarnations of the projects are wonderful pieces of writing and are beautiful to look at, so hopefully this one can shine with its own light too.

I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not the best on graphics, writing or history, but I still wish to add my snowflake here and with your input and help it can snowball from there and flourish into something wonderful for all of us to enjoy.

So, be all welcome to The Great Intermission Mended.

Thanks in advance:

Inspirations (in no particular order):

- A Loyal City on the Hill by @VT45

- The Yankee Dominion by @Nazi Space Spy

- Our Fair Country by @Kanan

- Tellurus by @Imperator Frank

- Hail, Britannia by @LeinadB93

- Affiliated States of Boreoamerica by @False Dmitri

- Lulach’s Legacy by @Upvoteanthology

Check all of them if you have the time, they are all wonderful, no matter the state of work they have at the moment.

Guiding Lines:

If there is to be order, I will reserve the power to veto aspects or results in decisions in regard to the timeline. Please, don’t take it personally if I shot down your idea, it is not my aim, and it shall not be, to aggravate you. This is a project with the aim of creating and that means that it is to be enjoyable for all the participants. Don’t be disruptive, we are all here because of something we love in common which is not very common. I do not wish to have any hard conflict in the thread.

Of course, consensus means that not all of the ideas will be used, and some might not be approved. Does that mean I will be dictating what to do left and right? No, absolutely not. I won’t move my hand against consensus. I might steer it in a certain direction if it violates the spirit of the project, but never because of pettiness or anything against any of you.

“But I spent so much time on this part of the project! How can it be rejected?” Please, if you are going to create a map, an entry or any other resource that delves into a territory that we haven’t explored in the thread, bring forward the idea first. If you are wishing to keep it a surprise, then let’s discuss it via PMs. I’ll always be open to new input in all forms.

On the other hand, don’t act maliciously and push your canon into the project via virtue of having made a world map and then dictating the history of the whole world through it. This a collaborative project.

The Story’s background:

- Western Europe is united up to the present day which might be more or less advanced than OTL. The new country doesn’t have a name yet and frankly, regarding other things we have to discuss, it might not be the most relevant or interesting aspect.

- Why the Great Intermission Mended? This relates directly to one of the core aspects of this worldbuilding: Western Europe’s history would be looked at like we look at China’s, a continuous empire that has been fractured several times under its own weight. Not a series of competing polities.

- So, what’s the PoD then? I wish to have the cultures of Western Europe somewhat differentiated at the time of the PoD to have cultural variety inside this great polity, so I would prefer if the PoD was between the division of the Carolingian Empire and the end of the Hundred Years’ War. See that I’ll try to avoid the term “Nation” about the country as I would prefer to have several different nations inside of it that share a common inheritance that binds them.

- And how is the country now? I will not dictate if it is the dominant world power, is a superpower among several, or a simply great power. What I will have assured is that it didn’t enter a long period of isolation like China did IOTL, it colonized and commerced with the world during the great majority if not all of its history.

- Cool! Fetch me my crown of laurels and gladius and let’s go to a course of Latin! Not so fast. In the same manner that neither the Carolingian Empire nor the Byzantine Empire were exact copies of the Roman Empire, our country will not be so. I think one of the most interesting aspects that we can have ITTL is how the country deals with the cultural inheritance and legacy of the fallen Roman Empire through the ages. Maybe our country could have dealt in one period of time with their heritage by having a cultural renaissance of Latin and Greek cultures. Maybe in another period the educated people find themselves so constricted by their ancestors’ philosophies they start to resent them.

- So, Latin is forbidden then? No, on the contrary, as I said, the country will have to deal with the legacy of the Roman Empire. Will it be a Kingdom that expanded to an Empire? A federation of Kingdoms? A Republic that cast away the shadows of a monarchy? Maybe it could have passed through all those phases. Simply look at the story of countries that have existed for as long as this country will have. My personal preference would be a federal constitutional monarchy. Nonetheless, that is as I said, my personal preference.

- Let’s reconstruct the Mare Nostrum! I don’t believe the goal of the project is to refund the Roman Empire, so it can be just like before. Yes, it could be. It could have conquered parts of the former empire… And it also could have lost them. In my opinion, our country shouldn’t be all-powerful. Where is the fun in having no enemies? In facing no adversity? What of the other lands and peoples who can have their own golden eras and their own odysseys. This is an attempt to both construct our country but also to construct the world in which it exists.

- So, can our new country still stomp other nations? Yes, of course it can. But history is fluid and fickle. We shouldn’t have a perfect succession of Five Good Emperors over and over again. Natural disasters, civil wars, decadence, foreign invasion, terrible rulers, colonies revolting, all of this and more should make an appearance. Let’s make our history interesting.

- There will be colonies of the country throughout the world. They might be turned into Dominions later, might be let go or lost in an independence war. It’s up to you all.

What’s next for the project and how can I get started?

Let’s start discussing the PoD and start making maps through the ages. I would recommend not starting on Q-BAM or any of the larger maps for the moment as we still have a lot of details to define. Yes. What you can see, plus a few ideas in one of my notebooks and a couple of maps, is all that there is up to the point of posting this.

But it lacks order!

No, it doesn’t. I am giving you a freer hand than most in deciding the PoD and what’s next. That doesn’t mean it will be so free to be chaotic in the future. In order:

- Determine the PoD.

- Determine the general outline of the history that can be changed later, but at least we must have a general idea of where we are going.

- Creating the resources for the time we are working on. We can always go back to review and revise content but take care in doing the opposite in temporal jumps which are too long. In simple words, don’t start writing a detailed description of a King that came three hundred years later than what we have decided up to that point. We would be boxing ourselves in and you would likely be having to redo most of the history later.

- We don’t have to go tremendously deep into the history of the country and the world each time because we need a general outline we will then be filling.
 
Map I: To decide on the country itself.
Okay! I'm happy there is interest in the project.

Now, what to expect you might be wondering yourselves? It's simple to think what your ideal new WRE empire might looki like, but contrasting it with other people's... A Greater Angevin Union, an expanded Holy Roman Empire, a nascent Italy and it's Mare Nostrum... That's where many of the similarities end. So I ask you, what do you wish our country to be consistent off?

I will propose we use this map to denote what we are expecting our Country to consist of. Open the file in MSPaint and use the Bucket/Fill with Colour tool to paint the parts of the map you have your vision consisting of. Then upload it here so we can discuss it.

Four points before anything else:
  • Don't paint the whole map in a single colour and say that you wish everything to be the core regions. It is against the idea of the collab to just have an space-filling country with no contenders on sight.
  • You are allowed and encouraged to paint the map in different colours representing different order of preferences. If painting darker for you means more important or core areas, then gladly do so. If you wish to go with a scale of greys or a rainbow of colours each representing a level, be my guest.
  • Arrows represent additional growth in those directions.
  • This doesn't include colonies, dominions, commonwealth realms, personal unions or anything of the sort.
The Great Intermission What do you consider of the Country.png
 
foxfire.png

Blue is absolute core, the always unquestioned, usually inviolate home-ground of the state.
Dark teal is the territory usually held, but occasionally lost in times of retreat and dissension.
Light teal is normally held securely, but vulnerable in downturns.
Tea green are essentially frontier marches, albeit with the comforts of civilization, think Northern Britain during the Pax Romana.
Everything else blue in the original is simply beyond the boundaries.
 
Great! I'm delighted on all the partiicpation and proposals that have been uploaded so far. As there are already some variety of proposals, I will present my own. As I said before, this is only a proposal and not a mandate.

The Great Intermission What I consider the country.png
 
Okay! I'm happy there is interest in the project.

Now, what to expect you might be wondering yourselves? It's simple to think what your ideal new WRE empire might looki like, but contrasting it with other people's... A Greater Angevin Union, an expanded Holy Roman Empire, a nascent Italy and it's Mare Nostrum... That's where many of the similarities end. So I ask you, what do you wish our country to be consistent off?

I will propose we use this map to denote what we are expecting our Country to consist of. Open the file in MSPaint and use the Bucket/Fill with Colour tool to paint the parts of the map you have your vision consisting of. Then upload it here so we can discuss it.

Four points before anything else:
  • Don't paint the whole map in a single colour and say that you wish everything to be the core regions. It is against the idea of the collab to just have an space-filling country with no contenders on sight.
  • You are allowed and encouraged to paint the map in different colours representing different order of preferences. If painting darker for you means more important or core areas, then gladly do so. If you wish to go with a scale of greys or a rainbow of colours each representing a level, be my guest.
  • Arrows represent additional growth in those directions.
  • This doesn't include colonies, dominions, commonwealth realms, personal unions or anything of the sort.

Does it have to possess all territories that you included? Can I include more territory?
 
It seems we have some maps now but many of the ones that have seemed to express interest might not know of my last post and the map exercise. I will, for the first and, likely last, time, call them into the thread. I do this not to annoy you, I assure you all, but because of the fact that the project seems to have attracted enough interest to pass a certain threshold of sustainability and therefore we can start with it properly. If you do not want me to send you a call again, which will likely not be the case but still, please be honest with me and tell me.

Also, should you want to "vote" for a map instead of making yours, please say it explicitly.

I will average the maps you already submitted to have a first result of the survey. This survey is from quite a simple and fast map and therefore the first survey will be over in the following 24 hours. Remember, this is just a survey, and nothing is set in stone (apart from the facts stated in the OP). You can submit maps after the first survey, but they will likely not be included in it and will have to wait until the second survey, likely after we have picked a PoD.

@Gladsome @No.233 @Miranda Brawner @Ivoshafen @CanadianTory @Miner @Whiteshore @VT45 @BryanIII @Kanan @TheKutKu @Tomislav Addai @Turquoise Blue.
 
I think you need a POD before deciding what lands are in or are out.

The idea is that we don’t have a PoD yet and we take suggestions for the lands that comprise the core of the empire so that we may formulate that PoD once we have an averge of what eveyone expects. That way, we can have a country which satisfies the most of us but also a unified PoD.

You chose the PoD or PoDs you want to, formulated explicitly or not, and then create a representation of what you want, wanked, screwed or whatever (of course, not too much in either sense).

We aren’t deciding over one scenario, we are presenting many to see what each of us wants. Then through those nebulous expectations we can have the general direction of what we want.

As I said before, there are many, many different alternatives of how this country could be created because we aren’t restricting what this country is like except for the OP.
 
Here I present you... The map of the averaged core regions combined. I only took the regions that were explicitely painted in the innermost colour. It might a surprise what you will see:

The Great Intermission Averaged I.png

Of course, I only took the innermost cores as I said before. I could do a map with the two or three innermost colours and I think the result would be somewhat different, but not by that much. However, if there is any dissatisfaction with the final product we can conduct this survey again in the future.
 

Vuu

Banned
My proposal, coming from a mathematical point of view: the center of the westernmost quarter of Europe is actually in the northern Jutland. Due to reasons, consider that it's somewhere in the coast of Germany, like Hamburg. The darker the color, the more peripheral the area
The Great Intermission What do you consider of the Country.png
 
Now I'm finally free from my tests (for the moment) and can respond again.

@Vuu I think Jutland as centrepoint for western Europe takes into consideration too much land from Scandinavia that isn't nearly as good to support an empire at this stage in history. A better centre would be Strassbourg IMHO.

But back to wher we were before: it seems our empire will be based on northern France, England and Belgium. That likely means a PoD that points towards a super Angevin Empire or something of the sort. What this leads me to believe is a certain scenario of France bowing to the English permanently and thus a sort of tail-wagging-the-dog situation. England militarily swallows France but the reverse is culturally true. It's likely that the summer court of the Angevins, Angers or Chinon, then became the capital of this new Angevin power or somewhere close by, later moving towards Normandy in this case so it can have access to the sea. The consolidation of the empire could have made England lose part of their peripheral regions (as well as France), such as parts of northern Northumberland and/or having frequent raids from the Scottish or whoever else to that area. That could be a reason for the more faded colour of northern England. Also, the kingdom of Burgundy synchronizes perfectly with the lighter areas next to Switzerland, likely signalling how they could have been a thorn in the side of the Angevins. Toulouse also has a darker colour, meaning that maybe the Languedoc was nominally part of the Angevin empire, something that suits the history quite well, but whose vassals don't show as much loyalty, being more independent. That could be the reason for the faded colour of most of southern France but Toulouse. Another thought that comes to my mind is that they could have absorved Savoy while they controlled half of modern Switzerland, after all, it somewhat fits with the borders.

However, all of this is a preliminary analysis brought to you by myself and only myself, so there might be many discrepancies with what you can imagine with the same parametres (of the map) set. If your approve of my very general Angevin idea, then it might be time to set a PoD.
 
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