On February 7 1940, Hermann Göring signed a decree that cancelled all aircraft projects that would not achieve results within a year. This decision severely hampered the German jet and rocket programs among others, and was probably the biggest mistake Göring made as the head of the Luftwaffe (which is saying a lot). If he hadn't done this though, what would be the effects on the rest of the war?
WI: Göring doesn't cancel a bunch of projects in the February of 1940
- Thread starter AbeLincoln1865
- Start date
Probably more Wunderwaffe projects. But to understand the real impact that such projects had on the war you need to understand the reason that such projects existed. Every one of those projects required a team of engineers who would move Heaven and Earth to keep those projects going because the instant those projects ended they would be handed rifles and sent to the Eastern Front. In that aim those projects were wildly successful.
Deleted member 1487
https://books.google.com/books?id=4...age&q=goering cancelled research 1940&f=false
This claims it was from Hitler, but I have yet to find sources with citations about it and the impact of it. Not sure it mattered that much relative to the general mess of the R&D organization of Nazi Germany.
The books Impact and German Aircraft Industry and Production say it was Göring on the date I wrote in the OP.
Deleted member 1487
He may have passed down the order, but it seems it was Hitler who originated it.
Garrison
Donor
Is it a mistake? The German rocket and jet programs roughly break down into two classes. There's the complete waste of time programs that were never going to produce anything of real practical benefit. The Me163 is the best known example of this group, more dangerous to the pilots flying them than the enemy and yet when faced with all the practical problems the response was to work on a 'better' version, the Me263. On the other hand you had those projects like the Me262 that had genuine potential, but the fact that they couldn't possibly enter service before late 1943/early 1944 rendered them irrelevant to Hitler's plans. As crazy as he might have been later Hitler in 1940 knew that a long war would be one that Germany would lose, the decisive battles would be fought long before they were available. What the Luftwaffe needed wasn't jet fighters in 1943 but a decent piston engine replacement for the Me109 in 1941, be that converting over to the Fw190 or a decent successor from Messerschmitt.
Deleted member 1487
You mean other than the Me209 being a failure (compared to the FW190D)?
Considering this decision meant the Me209 didn't get as much Luftwaffe funding and had to be done on Messerschmitt engineers own time, yes.
Garrison
Donor
Wiki isn't always the most accurate but of the two aircraft with that designation one was an air speed record plane and the other was an Me109 replacement that wasn't proposed until 1943. Do you have a source for the above?
FBKampfer
Banned
Honestly I don't think a 109 replacement in 1941 would have done anything.
Even by 1945, it was still keeping up (and even outpacing) the best the Allies could throw against it.
Off the top of my head, the only Allied piston fighter that was clearly faster was the P-47, which didn't start cracking 450+ until over 30K, where the 109 was past its peak spreed at 22K, and had slowed to around 425.
But a 109K was faster than the P-51, P-38, Spitfire, Typhoon, Tempest, F-4U, etc.
Biggest changes they should have made were a bubble canopy modification, and revised controls/displays.
Followed by light drop tanks for the wings.
Even by 1945, it was still keeping up (and even outpacing) the best the Allies could throw against it.
Off the top of my head, the only Allied piston fighter that was clearly faster was the P-47, which didn't start cracking 450+ until over 30K, where the 109 was past its peak spreed at 22K, and had slowed to around 425.
But a 109K was faster than the P-51, P-38, Spitfire, Typhoon, Tempest, F-4U, etc.
Biggest changes they should have made were a bubble canopy modification, and revised controls/displays.
Followed by light drop tanks for the wings.
Garrison
Donor
But was an absolute dog in terms of maneuverability, the Bf109 was utterly obsolete by 1945.
The Bf-109's top speed was 398 mph at 21,000 feet. The P-51's was 440 at 25,000, with virtually identical cruising speeds. The P-38's top speed was 414 mph.
That's not even getting into the fact you're solely judging based on speed. The 109 was outclassed completely by 1945.
What they REALLY needed was to have them in the same numbers as the allies had their Spitfires, Mustangs, Thunderbolts, Yaks, La's and others.
Deleted member 1487
FBKampfer
Banned
398 is for a G-6.
And the K4 could do 4500fpm on the deck and hold 3500fpm clear through 20K (which equates to sub 5 minute climb to 20K, which only the Spit XII and XIV, and the Yak-3 could come close to.
Climb is a function of excess engine power and directly correlates to acceleration.
Maneuverability was average, but certainly not a slouch.
The Mk 108 had godawful ballistics, I will give you that.
FBKampfer
Banned
Which versions though?
The P-51B and D had substantially different power curves and peak altitudes, while late 109's retained the smooth curve thanks to a continuously variable supercharger, but had markedly stronger performance.
Irrelevant, because that's not what you said. You said that the P-47 was the only aircraft that was faster than the 109, and that it was significantly faster than the P-51 and P-38, which so far as I can tell isn't true. Acceleration has nothing to do with speed aside from how fast you get to said speed.
Deleted member 1487
In terms of speed or turn radius? The turn radius shouldn't be impacted by that, while the D-series of P-51 is the unambiguously more powerful model, as the K-series Bf-109 with two stage two speed supercharger and MW-50 boost (but draggy armament) never really got into production. The K-4 model was little more than a cleaned up G-series and still slower than the P-51D.