If Louis XV dies in 1728 or before, who becomes the new French King?

If Louis XV dies in 1728 or before, who becomes the new French King?

  • King Phillip V of Spain (formerly known as Philippe of Anjou)

    Votes: 9 23.1%

  • Louis, Duke of Orleans

    Votes: 30 76.9%
  • Total voters
    39

The Avenger

Banned
If Louis XV dies in 1728 or before, who becomes the new French King?

I made this poll to see who you think will prevail in the succeeding power struggle--King Phillip V of Spain (who'd probably have to renounce his Spanish crown if he'll become the French King) or Louis, Duke of Orleans.

Phillip V of Spain was genealogically ahead of Louis of Orleans, but Phillip renounced his rights to the French throne in 1713 with the Treaty of Utrecht. Would he be able to take back this renunciation if Louis XV dies, and would he have enough support to win the resulting power struggle against Louis of Orleans?

Thoughts?
 
CHKeeley

CHKeeley

If he renounced his claim to the throne, and he was already the King of another major power, I don’t think Phillip could feasibly beat out the Duke of Orleans for the throne.
 

The Avenger

Banned
Viralworld said:
If he renounced his claim to the throne, and he was already the King of another major power, I don’t think Phillip could feasibly beat out the Duke of Orleans for the throne.
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Even if he gave up the Spanish throne and offered the Spanish throne to the Duke of Orleans?
 

The Avenger

Banned
Oamlyya said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Duke of Orléans doesn't have any halfway decent claim to the Spanish throne right?
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Based on agnatic primogeniture, and if Phillip V and all of his male-line descendants renounce their rights to the Spanish throne, the Duke of Orleans would genealogically be the candidate to whom the Spanish throne should pass.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
The Avenger said:
Based on agnatic primogeniture, and if Phillip V and all of his male-line descendants renounce their rights to the Spanish throne, the Duke of Orleans would genealogically be the candidate to whom the Spanish throne should pass.
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Orléans Spain? I’d pay to see that timeline
 

Wendell

If you buy into the theory among some legitimists that the renunciation in the Treaty of Ultrecht was invalid under Bourbon house laws, then the obvious claimant is the then-King of Spain.
 

The Avenger

Banned
Wendell said:
If you buy into the theory among some legitimists that the renunciation in the Treaty of Ultrecht was invalid under Bourbon house laws, then the obvious claimant is the then-King of Spain.
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The question is how many people will actually buy into this theory.
 

Nmale

While Philip V would have significant support, the Duke of Orleans would become King because Philip V renounced his claim to the throne and because if he became King a succession war would follow with all of Europe vs Spain and France. And in 1718 there was a conspiracy, the Cellamere Conspiracy to make Philip V Regent for King Louis XV.
 

The Avenger

Banned
Nmale said:
While Philip V would have significant support, the Duke of Orleans would become King because Philip V renounced his claim to the throne and because if he became King a succession war would follow with all of Europe vs Spain and France. And in 1718 there was a conspiracy, the Cellamere Conspiracy to make Philip V Regent for King Louis XV.
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Theoretically speaking, Phillip V and all of his sons can renounce their rights to the Spanish throne in favor of the Duke of Orleans if he agrees to support Phillip V's claim to the French throne. However, would the Duke of Orleans actually accept such a deal?
 
The Professor

The Professor

The Avenger said:
Based on agnatic primogeniture, and if Phillip V and all of his male-line descendants renounce their rights to the Spanish throne, the Duke of Orleans would genealogically be the candidate to whom the Spanish throne should pass.
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I think you mean male preference cognatic as it comes down the female line, agnatic is males only.
Philip V's claim came down from his grandmother Maria Theresa. The next surviving line as of 1728 would be that of Anne of Austria, his great grandmother and also mother of the Duke of Orleans line. The line of Anne's sister Maria Anna can technically be said to be equal to Anne's and has HRE Charles VI and his infant daughters (future Empress) Maria Theresa and Maria Anna.
Non War Options are:
A) France to kids of Philip's first marriage, Spain to his second, Orleans next for France, Charles VI daughters next for Spain
B) France to Orleans
I can't see Orleans getting Spain as Philip's 2nd line is still superior in that claim and the Austrian line can be held equal to the Orleans line.
 

Kaze

Banned
It would likely come into a War of French Succession - the last thing the British would want is an Orleans- Spain union.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
The Professor said:
I think you mean male preference cognatic as it comes down the female line, agnatic is males only.
Philip V's claim came down from his grandmother Maria Theresa. The next surviving line as of 1728 would be that of Anne of Austria, his great grandmother and also mother of the Duke of Orleans line. The line of Anne's sister Maria Anna can technically be said to be equal to Anne's and has HRE Charles VI and his infant daughters (future Empress) Maria Theresa and Maria Anna.
Non War Options are:
A) France to kids of Philip's first marriage, Spain to his second, Orleans next for France, Charles VI daughters next for Spain
B) France to Orleans
I can't see Orleans getting Spain as Philip's 2nd line is still superior in that claim and the Austrian line can be held equal to the Orleans line.
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I think seeing France going to Philip's kids from his first marriage would be very interesting. Louis I of Spain as King of France as Louis XVI could hold mad potential, a marriage to his otl wife to secure the support of the Orleans would be good.
 
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