Pangur
Donor
Mhhh now why does that seem like a hint? (the idea rocksIf Germany gets a new Kaiser, it'd almost certainly by Ruprecht Wittelsbach now
Why the Chinese play cricket (The Pax Imperialis)
- Thread starter Miss Construction
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Mhhh now why does that seem like a hint? (the idea rocks
Whistles innocently
My mistake but the Entente tactic still is viable as is the potential results.It's wasn't the Prussian Hohenzollerns who saved Germany, it was the Bavarian Wittelsbachs. If Germany gets a new Kaiser they'll come from that line, almost certainly Ruprecht
It’s an interesting concept which don’t think has been done before as British-German relations are much stronger than in OTL due to how the Great War played out and the post war treaties and deals. So a British Monarch as ruler of Germany wouldn’t have much issues from either the CW or Germany public.
Of course there would international problems but if Europe is going to ripe itself apart like I think there going to it will not matter.
It would be interesting see a victorious CW who has big task of rebuilding and militarise the North American, Caribbean and South Asia territories against future attacks and is dealing with the chaos on its Africa borders due the collapse of the French colonial empire to suddenly have to deal with a constitution, humanitarian and logistical crisis of George VI/Elizabeth II becoming the Kaiser of a bankrupt Germany mostly made of bodies and rubble.
Lastly this could spark of the constitutional crisis problem the Imperial Commonwealth has had brewing since the United Kingdom and its supporting Dominions practically ceased to exist but still legally exist and the Imperial Commonwealth practically came into existence but not completely legally. After all George VI is King-Emperor of United Kingdom, its Dominions across the sea, its crown colonies and the British Raj, not King-Emperor of the Imperial Commonwealth and its dependent territories (the territories which aren't apart of the Imperial Parliament but still answer to its authority).
Of course there would international problems but if Europe is going to ripe itself apart like I think there going to it will not matter.
It would be interesting see a victorious CW who has big task of rebuilding and militarise the North American, Caribbean and South Asia territories against future attacks and is dealing with the chaos on its Africa borders due the collapse of the French colonial empire to suddenly have to deal with a constitution, humanitarian and logistical crisis of George VI/Elizabeth II becoming the Kaiser of a bankrupt Germany mostly made of bodies and rubble.
Lastly this could spark of the constitutional crisis problem the Imperial Commonwealth has had brewing since the United Kingdom and its supporting Dominions practically ceased to exist but still legally exist and the Imperial Commonwealth practically came into existence but not completely legally. After all George VI is King-Emperor of United Kingdom, its Dominions across the sea, its crown colonies and the British Raj, not King-Emperor of the Imperial Commonwealth and its dependent territories (the territories which aren't apart of the Imperial Parliament but still answer to its authority).
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A hole I'd left unfilled
May 1935: After years of nationalist agitation, the Smith Act grants independence to Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philippines in 1945. The Act also transfers Guam and Wake Island to the Philippines, as well as providing for a plebiscite on American Samoas fate in 1940.
September 1938: As relations with the CW continue to deteriorate the Colonial Status Act, sponsored by Republican Congressman Henry Wallace, postpones the implementation of the 1935 Smith Act granting independence to Cuba, the Philippines and Puerto Rico in 1945 for ten years.
May 1935: After years of nationalist agitation, the Smith Act grants independence to Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philippines in 1945. The Act also transfers Guam and Wake Island to the Philippines, as well as providing for a plebiscite on American Samoas fate in 1940.
September 1938: As relations with the CW continue to deteriorate the Colonial Status Act, sponsored by Republican Congressman Henry Wallace, postpones the implementation of the 1935 Smith Act granting independence to Cuba, the Philippines and Puerto Rico in 1945 for ten years.
Italian navy as at 1941
RM as at 1921
1 x Regina Margherita BO (training)
1 x Dante Alighieri BB
3 x Cavour BB
2 x Andrea Doria BB
4 x Caricciolo BB
1921
Laid down 1922
1 x Varese CA to CVL, complete 1925
1932
Laid down 1933
2 x Andrea Doria BB reconstruction, complete 1937
1934
Laid down 1935
2 x Caricciolo BB rebuild, complete 1938
1935
Laid down 1936
2 x Italia BB, complete 1940
1 x Aquila CV, complete 1939
1937
Laid down 1938
2 x Caricciolo BB rebuild, complete 1941
2 x Falco CVL, complete 1941
1938
Laid down 1939
2 x Italia BB, complete 1943
3 x Cavour BB reconstruction, complete 1942
1 x Regina Margherita BO disposed
1 x Dante Alighieri BB training
1940
Laid down 1941
2 x Italia BB, complete 1944
2 x Grifone CVL, complete 1943
6 x Spada CVE, complete 1942
1 x Regina Margherita BO (training)
1 x Dante Alighieri BB
3 x Cavour BB
2 x Andrea Doria BB
4 x Caricciolo BB
1921
Laid down 1922
1 x Varese CA to CVL, complete 1925
1932
Laid down 1933
2 x Andrea Doria BB reconstruction, complete 1937
1934
Laid down 1935
2 x Caricciolo BB rebuild, complete 1938
1935
Laid down 1936
2 x Italia BB, complete 1940
1 x Aquila CV, complete 1939
1937
Laid down 1938
2 x Caricciolo BB rebuild, complete 1941
2 x Falco CVL, complete 1941
1938
Laid down 1939
2 x Italia BB, complete 1943
3 x Cavour BB reconstruction, complete 1942
1 x Regina Margherita BO disposed
1 x Dante Alighieri BB training
1940
Laid down 1941
2 x Italia BB, complete 1944
2 x Grifone CVL, complete 1943
6 x Spada CVE, complete 1942
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I'd forgotten all about Thailand
February 1936: The Siamese government of Phraya Phahon is overthrown in a CW inspired coup by Direk Jayanama. This is the start of a long period of political instability in Siam as the CW and Pacific Alliance vie for control of the strategically located nation.
November 1940: The seventh Siamese coup since 1936 brings pro Pacific Alliance Plaek Phibuns to power.
February 1936: The Siamese government of Phraya Phahon is overthrown in a CW inspired coup by Direk Jayanama. This is the start of a long period of political instability in Siam as the CW and Pacific Alliance vie for control of the strategically located nation.
November 1940: The seventh Siamese coup since 1936 brings pro Pacific Alliance Plaek Phibuns to power.
ITOTL it only became Thailand during the Phibuns regime as part of his 12 mandates. So I'm going with it stays being Siam until he comes to power and decides to change it.
As I said, all TPW (Transpacific War as opposed to EW, European War) entries are provisional so
June 1941: Admiral Crace takes over command of the CW Pacific Fleet, now reinforced by the Colossus class light carrier Mars from the Indian ocean and Ark Royal from Singapore. He concentrates his force forward at Cairns.
June 1941: Admiral Crace takes over command of the CW Pacific Fleet, now reinforced by the Colossus class light carrier Mars from the Indian ocean and Ark Royal from Singapore. He concentrates his force forward at Cairns.
1941b Transpacific East Indies Theatre
~April to June 1941 (Transpacific War, East Indies Theatre): A rising tide
April 1941: With US troops firmly established in the Netherlands Guinea and no possibility of effective resistance, the governor, Jacob van Sprang surrenders the colony to avoid further unnecessary bloodshed.
April 1941: After several weeks of heavy fighting, Japanese forces break out of the Sarawak beachhead and begin to advance on Miri.
April 1941: With the success of the invasion of Panama, four Nelson class battleships are withdrawn from the CW Far Eastern Fleet to reinforce the Caribbean.
April 1941: Japanese troops land at Balikpapan. They are met by determined resistance from CW and Dutch troops in prepared positions.
April 1941: Miri falls to the advancing Japanese though the oil facilities and port are destroyed. Pacific Alliance engineers immediately begin work on repairing this vital infrastructure, concentrating on the oil facilities.
April 1941: With the Netherlands Guinea secured well ahead of schedule, the US troops freed up land on Timor and Flores, again only meeting ineffective resistance.
May 1941: CW and Dutch forces around Tarakan begin falling back across the Tamabo Range toward Sarawak.
May 1941: US troops occupy Portuguese Timor. As a result the Portuguese enter the war in alliance with the CW.
May 1941: The Japanese take Balikpapan. The defenders destroy the oil facilities and begin falling back toward Sarawak.
May 1941: With the East Indies Campaign progressing, Pacific Alliance troops land in Java. The Netherlands defence has been stripped to provide troops for Borneo and a solid beachhead is easily established.
May 1941: US troops from Timor and Flores are redeployed to strengthen the forces in Java.
May 1941: CW troops from India begin landing in Sumatra and preparing for its defence by building a series of defensive positions around Palembang with fall back positions at Pekanbaru and Medan.
June 1941: With the East Indies campaign proceeding ahead of schedule, the Pacific Alliance begins pressing the Siamese government of Plaek Phibun to enter the war, allowing a direct attack on Burma and Malaya.
June 1941: Advancing Japanese units surround and isolate the CW and Dutch forces retreating from Balikpapan.
June 1941: The remnants of the isolated and exhausted 47th (Madras) Division finally surrenders, leaving the Pacific Alliance in control of Celebes.
June 1941: General Hein ter Poorten surrenders the remaining Dutch and CW forces in Netherlands Borneo, leave the rereating CW forces in Sarawak as the last resistance to the Pacific Alliance on the island.
April 1941: With US troops firmly established in the Netherlands Guinea and no possibility of effective resistance, the governor, Jacob van Sprang surrenders the colony to avoid further unnecessary bloodshed.
April 1941: After several weeks of heavy fighting, Japanese forces break out of the Sarawak beachhead and begin to advance on Miri.
April 1941: With the success of the invasion of Panama, four Nelson class battleships are withdrawn from the CW Far Eastern Fleet to reinforce the Caribbean.
April 1941: Japanese troops land at Balikpapan. They are met by determined resistance from CW and Dutch troops in prepared positions.
April 1941: Miri falls to the advancing Japanese though the oil facilities and port are destroyed. Pacific Alliance engineers immediately begin work on repairing this vital infrastructure, concentrating on the oil facilities.
April 1941: With the Netherlands Guinea secured well ahead of schedule, the US troops freed up land on Timor and Flores, again only meeting ineffective resistance.
May 1941: CW and Dutch forces around Tarakan begin falling back across the Tamabo Range toward Sarawak.
May 1941: US troops occupy Portuguese Timor. As a result the Portuguese enter the war in alliance with the CW.
May 1941: The Japanese take Balikpapan. The defenders destroy the oil facilities and begin falling back toward Sarawak.
May 1941: With the East Indies Campaign progressing, Pacific Alliance troops land in Java. The Netherlands defence has been stripped to provide troops for Borneo and a solid beachhead is easily established.
May 1941: US troops from Timor and Flores are redeployed to strengthen the forces in Java.
May 1941: CW troops from India begin landing in Sumatra and preparing for its defence by building a series of defensive positions around Palembang with fall back positions at Pekanbaru and Medan.
June 1941: With the East Indies campaign proceeding ahead of schedule, the Pacific Alliance begins pressing the Siamese government of Plaek Phibun to enter the war, allowing a direct attack on Burma and Malaya.
June 1941: Advancing Japanese units surround and isolate the CW and Dutch forces retreating from Balikpapan.
June 1941: The remnants of the isolated and exhausted 47th (Madras) Division finally surrenders, leaving the Pacific Alliance in control of Celebes.
June 1941: General Hein ter Poorten surrenders the remaining Dutch and CW forces in Netherlands Borneo, leave the rereating CW forces in Sarawak as the last resistance to the Pacific Alliance on the island.
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Here you can see the different fighting styles and positions of PA and CW.
The PA is hitting hard and fast because it knows has cut the British Empire (remember it just thinks it’s a name change for the most part) apart and it cannot hit let alone hold down most of its territory.
The giant global spanning CW has to either given way in places or has token/small forces to hold positions to slow the PA down while it gets its multiple hammer blows ready.
All the while the clock is ticking and by 1943 at latest the PA has to either bring the war to the end or it’s going to be like Nazi Germany after 1944 running out resources against an enemy that can out produce, spend and outman it and is coming for you.
The enemies at the gates, he’s surrounded the castle with armies which outnumber you 10 to 1, he’s blocked the escape routes, is refusing to accept parlay and you are running out of food and water.
The PA is hitting hard and fast because it knows has cut the British Empire (remember it just thinks it’s a name change for the most part) apart and it cannot hit let alone hold down most of its territory.
The giant global spanning CW has to either given way in places or has token/small forces to hold positions to slow the PA down while it gets its multiple hammer blows ready.
All the while the clock is ticking and by 1943 at latest the PA has to either bring the war to the end or it’s going to be like Nazi Germany after 1944 running out resources against an enemy that can out produce, spend and outman it and is coming for you.
The enemies at the gates, he’s surrounded the castle with armies which outnumber you 10 to 1, he’s blocked the escape routes, is refusing to accept parlay and you are running out of food and water.
Imma have to play the devil’s advocate here. The US will not be playing the role of OTL late war Nazi germany. Yes, the CW has greater industrial potential than them, but the disparity is nowhere near as rediculous as the one between the OTL axis and allies. Not to mention the US has a massive geographic advantage against any potential invasion of the heartland, something Germany certainly lacked OTL. More likely the CW beats sense into the PA and we get some sorta status who ante (outside of China, where one side will most likely come out on top completely) with some minor territroial gains for the CW.
Point, however isn’t potentially industrial power it’s really power due this Tl Great War Britain industrial centres weren’t attacked in fact were expanded to maximum capacity with war orders still coming in which forced both India and Africa to be industrialised. After the war and during the Great Depression the CW has had to mainly rely on its internal marketing to keep it stable and has industrialised further. To put it bluntly the CW as of the 1940s is a fully industrialised superpower which is nearing Hyperpower status.
The USA on the other has had industrial centres destroyed in the Great War by Mexico and suffered in the Great Depression (while overall not as much as OTL).
The PA can challenge (not match) the industrial, economic and people power for a limited time, however most of the CW industry cannot be hit at first or at all, whereas a lot of the PA can.
If the PA doesn’t force the CW to a peace treaty by 1943 (not win) it will lose.
The USA has always been a trading nation and will be in a world where the only nations which can properly trade with in is it’s ally which is in worse position or the superpower it’s currently at war with. The USA can sustain itself but can’t fight a superpower at the same time also it has to build that infrastructure as it is most potential as this timeline version of the New deal was smaller and later.
Japan is like its counterpart and the UK in OTL WW2 it can’t completely support itself of its main land so if it’s completely blockaded it will fall.
? How the fuck did the Mexican army which was hip-deep in its own civil war manage to attack North against a US Army that is larger and is far far better equipped manage to do anything but get itself killed on the banks of the Rio Grande?
Today overseas exports make up 12% of US GDP something which would likely be much less in the 1940s when autarky and protectionism are all the rage plus it is mentioned that the French and Entente are major US economic customers and are buying US goods and resources. This TLs new deal was smaller and later because it appears that the Wall Street crash wasn't nearly as bad as OTL considering that under the Garner administration things have recovered enough that Garner lost to Roosevelt on the basis of foreign policy the US economy is likely smaller than OTL though probably not as much as it seems considering how much the Entente leans on Wall Street partially making up the loss of large parts of Latin America.
To what Tube alloys? By 1943 most of Cana is in PA hands the Carribean is a mess of naval units and aircraft assuming the PA attempt to do something similar to Japan defense perimeter I wish the Commonwealth the best of luck trying to crack the combined PA fleets backed by land-based aviation. The war ends in a treaty unless one side breaks out the nukes.
One problem with that a key part of why Japan industry and economy failed was because of the Silent service running rampant due to poor Japanese ASW and aerial mining of coastal sea routes ITTL this is a Japan which has served on the Western Front and is allied with a power which has faced the challenges of supplying a 2 million man army across the Atlantic against the Germans and one of the reasons why the mining campaign was so successful was because of B29s operating from Alaska under atrocious weather conditions both of these aren't happening here
Valid points I am never good at this I always don’t explain myself probably. In answer
1)
I forgot most of America industrial power is in the north, I assume some industrial assets near the southern border will have been damaged by Mexico.
2) The USA in this timeline is much more linked to export trade with the Extente and the Japanese Empire which will make up a larger portion of its GDP than the OTL 1940s. With Europe destroying itself it’s going lose that trade completely along with the loan money it’s owned and its Japanese trade is going to be under threat. Some of that resources trade (perticular mechanical equipment etc) can be created internally but that takes time and resources which could be used elsewhere. The lose of export trade will be felt will it break America no but will have a impact.
3)By 1943 the PA can no longer dictate terms of a peace agreement. Both the USA and Japan have had the coastal assets attacked but only attack parts of CW, the CW is simply to big for the PA to do a land-based aviation attacks and will have Royal Navy problems to deal with which be expanding by the day.
As for nukes the USA hasn’t started even looking in that direction and will not have British research and resources to help them like in OTL, the CW on the other hand is looking in that direction with a lot of more resources at hand to speed up the process.
You are right this war is either going to end in a treaty or with nukes, the problem is the PA doesn’t resources to keep up with CW the longer this war goes on the more force the CW can bring to bear and the worse position the PA until the CW has a nuke and decides to use it to end the war.
4) Hadn’t though of that and I agree, the Japanese home islands can be effective invade unlike the continental USA but the amount of resources are likely going to be needed are huge.
1)
I forgot most of America industrial power is in the north, I assume some industrial assets near the southern border will have been damaged by Mexico.
2) The USA in this timeline is much more linked to export trade with the Extente and the Japanese Empire which will make up a larger portion of its GDP than the OTL 1940s. With Europe destroying itself it’s going lose that trade completely along with the loan money it’s owned and its Japanese trade is going to be under threat. Some of that resources trade (perticular mechanical equipment etc) can be created internally but that takes time and resources which could be used elsewhere. The lose of export trade will be felt will it break America no but will have a impact.
3)By 1943 the PA can no longer dictate terms of a peace agreement. Both the USA and Japan have had the coastal assets attacked but only attack parts of CW, the CW is simply to big for the PA to do a land-based aviation attacks and will have Royal Navy problems to deal with which be expanding by the day.
As for nukes the USA hasn’t started even looking in that direction and will not have British research and resources to help them like in OTL, the CW on the other hand is looking in that direction with a lot of more resources at hand to speed up the process.
You are right this war is either going to end in a treaty or with nukes, the problem is the PA doesn’t resources to keep up with CW the longer this war goes on the more force the CW can bring to bear and the worse position the PA until the CW has a nuke and decides to use it to end the war.
4) Hadn’t though of that and I agree, the Japanese home islands can be effective invade unlike the continental USA but the amount of resources are likely going to be needed are huge.