Affiliated States of Boreoamerica thread

[Gian]

This is the only solution to the dispute that I thought, the only thing that would change would be the geographical area, if the Dutch could create a multicultural place like the OTL Suriname, I do not see how they could not do the same with the Dutch Brazil.

Indeed, if the Dutch can make any place a haven of multiculturalism (even managing to do it in NYC, which is why it's the most multicultural city in the US in our world), they can certainly do it in Dutch Brazil.

Of course, any attempt to keep Dutch Brazil alive would mean that the Portuguese have to be nerfed in some capacity, but that's a story for another time. (And that is not even considering that Jewish state right next to it, that again the Portuguese might object to)

 

[Venusian Si]

This is the only solution to the dispute that I thought, the only thing that would change would be the geographical area, if the Dutch could create a multicultural place like the OTL Suriname, I do not see how they could not do the same with the Dutch Brazil.

Indeed, if the Dutch can make any place a haven of multiculturalism (even managing to do it in NYC, which is why it's the most multicultural city in the US in our world), they can certainly do it in Dutch Brazil.

The problem isn't that the Dutch can't create another multicultural place. The problem is that the *specific* demographics of Suriname - such as over *25* percent of its population being descended from "guest" workers from India - and thus the unique culture of Suriname would be very difficult if not impossible to replicate ITTL in another location like the OTL New Holland which would have many other different Push-Pull factors effecting its own demographics.

Personally, I think that Suriname is a cool nation that should be allowed to exist along the various nations ITTL because of how well it fits within this Universe, but since this is becoming a collaborative thing, maybe a vote should be allowed, or just have False_Dmitri make the final judgement.

Either way, I won't make any more noise once the final judgement is called.

And to Upvoteanthology, sorry for any annoyance! Didn't mean to do so.

Btw, both your maps are beautiful. Hope you're enjoying retirement.

IOf course, any attempt to keep Dutch Brazil alive would mean that the Portuguese have to be nerfed in some capacity, but that's a story for another time.

Considering how the Portuguese crushed both French efforts to establish colonies in Brazil as well, New Tuscany's Brazilian portions very much implies that the Portuguese have already been nerfed, or at least had their hands diplomatically tied - so that story certainly seems relevant.

 

[fluttersky]

I'll just point out, if people want to keep both Suriname and Nuova Toscana, it may be possible to edit Nuova Toscana so that it still exists, but without Suriname. The history of the region would need to be rewritten a bit, though. Here's my quick mock-up suggestion (an edit of FrankCesco's map; borders of Suriname are not precisely measured).

Spoiler

 

[Gian]

I can probably make a map showing the two together in WorldA form if that's ok.

 

[False Dmitri]

Regarding South America: If it is possible to combine the two without losing either the artwork or the creative vision of either, that seems best to me, though we should hear from the creators. I'm still quite embarrassed that I missed Upvoteanthology's PM. Since she did put forward her idea first, my sense is that it ought to have priority, but I also don't want to assign Frank "homework"... and I'm also just glad that we're having a productive discussion about it.

@Neoteros - I like the local color a lot. If no one else is working on a more detailed map of Italy, I'd happily take a crack at it. Was the reference to Tianjin at all influenced by my mention of the Russian/Manchurian settlement there? So I have been imagining a foreign concession in that city like the ones that existed historically. I left open the question whether other countries also have settlements there still today, or just the Russian Imperial Commonwealth. I also have not addressed the question of who controls the rest of the city - whether there is a single China, multiple Chinas, a federated China, et cetera. You're suggesting that Tianjin is a city-state, correct? That's interesting and naturally leads me to ask just what China is in this timeline.

 

[Frank]

So this is my personal proposal for South America:

As I said, if the Dutch could create a multicultural place like the OTL Suriname, I do not see how they could not do the same with the Dutch Brazil; so my proposal is that the Dutch menaged to win against the Portuguese in 1654, and they annex the Rio's Delta in 1659 trough a treaty of peace. Niew Holland is a very multicultural place like OTL Suriname where European-Descendants, Native Americans, descendants of 19th-century contract workers from India and Jews (with their own state in Nieuw Holland, as Upvoteanthology wanted) live together. The ethnical make up is like this:

• European descendents: 50.2%
• Jews: 18.7%
• Native Americans: 16.4%
• Indians: 14.7%

As you can see, I included also Klein-Venedig, lost by the Germans in mid-1500, they menaged to have it again in 1700s, as False Dmitri suggested.

What do you think?

 

[Tyche]

It seems to me that a big theme is the ASB-PIC verse is muted colonialism through cooperation with indigenous peoples, not increased colonialism by countries that didn't have any meaningful colonial possessions in the Americas. Italian and German states never had any colonial possessions in the New World, just Italians and Germans employed and involved in the colonization projects of other, more prominent colonizers. Something would have to go terribly awry with Spain and Portugal to have their ambitions in the region supplanted by peoples who didn't even have unified nation-states yet, and while that's not totally impossible (this is the ASB-verse) it also doesn't make any sense in the context of the theme of muted colonialism. I'm not meaning to take sides in any conflict, but from my perspective it seems like @Upvoteanthology's Suriname proposal fits more snugly here than just plopping a giant Italian colony with little-to-no OTL connections.

 

[Nyvis]

If colonialism does worse in subduing the natives, shouldn't it be expected for Spain to do a lot worse? And to a lesser amount, Portugal too. This opens spots up for other nations working with natives to succeed.

 

[Tyche]

If colonialism does worse in subduing the natives, shouldn't it be expected for Spain to do a lot worse? And to a lesser amount, Portugal too. This opens spots up for other nations working with natives to succeed.

Certainly! But we can look to the place where this project started, North America, to see how it plays out. The English were really weak colonizers in TTL, and that didn't mean the disorganized and fractured Germans turned Pennsylvania into Deutschland-Across-the-Sea. New groups didn't come in and colonize wholesale, just settled within other nation's colonies. Certainly there could be a lot of Italians in the Guiana Shield region and Germans in the Spanish Main! But not because tiny splintered statelets somehow overtook the Spanish Navy.

 

[Venusian Si]

Since she did put forward her idea first, my sense is that it ought to have priority

The more I think about this, the more I think that Upvoteanthology's map should have priority. Besides the fact that she came up with her idea first, her seniority should also be considered. After all, she's the first major contributor to the project after you and T.B.

but I also don't want to assign Frank "homework"...

For New Tuscany, a lot of "homework" would be required anyway in order to get it to properly mesh with the internal logic of this universe.

For example, questions like "Why does England, the Netherlands, the French, and the Portuguese just let a minor nation claim such a huge chunk of real estate that they all showed interest in?" or "Why does New Tuscany have such an incredibly high percentage of Europeans when the area OTL does not?" and so on would have to be answered.

As such, I really don't see why it's such a big deal to have Suriname and New Toririca exist - especially since as the above maps show, it's such a small chunk of New Tuscany. Plus, other members have shown a willingness to help out with the grunt work.

As I said, if the Dutch could create a multicultural place like the OTL Suriname, I do not see how they could not do the same with the Dutch Brazil;

As I mentioned, the push-pull factors that determine what people come or don't would be different for a place like New Holland - which would require heavy investment to protect against the Portuguese versus Suriname - which in comparison, was able to relatively fly under the radar.

So let's cut to the chase and look at Suriname's demographics.

• 27.4% Indian
• 21.7% Maroon
• 15.7% Creole
• 13.7% Javanese
• 13.4% Mixed
• 3.8% Indigenous Amerindian
• 1.5% Chinese
• 1% European
• 1.8% others

The reasons for this unique blend are plenty, and as such, a New Holland can't be expected to come close to mimicking the above demographics when there are other factors present that will encourage a different demographic makeup (such as a much higher European population like you have).

It seems to me that a big theme is the ASB-PIC verse is muted colonialism through cooperation with indigenous peoples, not increased colonialism by countries that didn't have any meaningful colonial possessions in the Americas. Italian and German states never had any colonial possessions in the New World, just Italians and Germans employed and involved in the colonization projects of other, more prominent colonizers. Something would have to go terribly awry with Spain and Portugal to have their ambitions in the region supplanted by peoples who didn't even have unified nation-states yet, and while that's not totally impossible (this is the ASB-verse) it also doesn't make any sense in the context of the theme of muted colonialism.

Definitely agree.

I'm not meaning to take sides in any conflict, but from my perspective it seems like @Upvoteanthology's Suriname proposal fits more snugly here than just plopping a giant Italian colony with little-to-no OTL connections.

Another theme I've noticed is the survival of OTL settlements/cultures that were lost to the sands of time. So in the ASB we have the survival of New Netherland, New Sweden in the form of Christina, French/French Metis culture in the Great lakes, etc.

And Upvoteanthology's map represents this theme well. Until she posted her map, I didn't know that Jews had actually established communities in Suriname OTL such as Jodensavanne (Thanks for the lesson @Upvoteanthology!).

As such, her original idea for Suriname/New Torarica very much has merit for inclusion into this universe.

 

[Nyvis]

As such, I really don't see why it's such a big deal to have Suriname and New Toririca exist - especially since as the above maps show, it's such a small chunk of New Tuscany. Plus, other members have shown a willingness to help out with the grunt work.

But does Suriname still make sense when surrounded by a populous and very European country rather than the sparsely populated colonies of this area OTL?

 

[Venusian Si]

But does Suriname still make sense when surrounded by a populous and very European country rather than the sparsely populated colonies of this area OTL?

Realistically no, but then, I don't think that England, the Netherlands, and Portugal allowing Tuscany to colonize that much territory in the first place makes much sense either.

As for now, I'm more concerned about things being handled fairly.

 

[Doctor President]

The Nuova Toscana map is great work, but I agree that it having all of the Guiana region be Italian doesn't fully work with the theme of this world, especially given that there isn't much background for it. I realize that @False Dmitri already sort of dismissed this idea, but it makes a lot of sense to retain Nuova Toscana's existence, but have it only include the area of roughly OTL French Guiana and Amapá State. This works because:

• It was the area explored by the actual Thornton expedition
• The country east of Suriname appears to be unnamed in Upvoteanthology's map, so it doesn't need to be changed at all.

I don't like retconning Frank Cesco's map, but Upvote does have priority.

 

[Gian]

So just to get an idea as to what @Upvoteanthology's idea looks like, here's Suriname/New Torarica overlaid into @FrankCesco's New Tuscany:

As you can probably see, Suriname does take up a small-ish chunk of the Neotuscan coast and cuts into Etruria-Atlantica. But then again, New Tuscany is kind of huge enough that it could wouldn't mind having Suriname be an exclave.

Now the main question would be if England, the Netherlands, Spain, and (especially) Portugal have Tuscany lay claim to that much of South America, especially given that much of Italy was at the time under Spanish influence (especially in the Two Sicilies)

 

[skozik]

The Nuova Toscana map is lovely, but... it was concieved as its own, independent scenario way back in May of last year. I feel like rejiggering the entire ASBverse to fit it is a little much, to be perfectly honest.

 

[Doctor President]

In the spirit of avoiding territorial conflicts caused by material not being publicly posted, I'm posting a map and general history of Alta California that's been lying on my computer for far too long. I was planning to write more about its culture and present situation, but I procrastinated and then forgot about that, so I'll just post what I have and maybe add more later.


The original New Spanish province of Alta California officially included a vast expanse of land- all of western North America north of 33°10’, with no defined eastern or northern boundaries. However, through the 18th century, the province’s actual control only extended to a few forts, Franciscan missions, ranches, and small villages along the Camino Real from Los Angeles to San Francisco. Though there was the occasional exploration, Mexico considered the vast region unimportant and it was largely unknown territory.

As the 18th century passed to the 19th, other powers began to take interest in California. First came Russia, coming south from Oregon and establishing a fort and trading post in the area. Later, England, Massachusetts Bay, and New Netherlands followed. At this point, Mexico became more concerned that they were losing sovereignty, but Alta California was finally gaining Mexican settlers in larger numbers, and soon it would be developed enough to firmly establish that Alta was Mexican. Or so they thought.

The 1859 gold rush changed everything. People from across the world (but particularly the ASB) came to a land that was suddenly much more economically important. Suddenly, the Mexican population was well outnumbered. The new arrivals acted effectively independently from the Alta California government. Mexico attempted to retain sovereignty, resulting in the Gold Wars, in which Mexico was a clear loser. Alta California’s northern border was defined, and they relinquished any claim to sovereignty in the northern, gold producing areas, restricting them to the southern, largely agricultural areas that were never important in the Gold Wars.

Ever since, Alta California has been much quieter. With its primary economic activity being agriculture, it was in the interest of the powers of the region to keep it steadily productive. So while England, Russia, the California Republic, and so on constantly tried to gain the upper hand in the regions rich in gold and silver, Alta was left unprovoked. To ensure that Alta was not affected by affairs in Mexico City, Mexico was pressured to give Alta broad autonomous and self-governing status, and allow it membership in the developing California Union. Defeated and distant from Californian affairs, Mexico conceded, resulting in the current State of Alta California, an entity part of both Mexico and the CU, but largely self-governing. Also during this period the Native population of Alta California west of the Sierra Nevada - mostly Yokut and Mono- were largely forced to migrate east, where they were allowed to retain self-government, but remained under Alta sovereignty.

Alta California received two major waves of immigration in the early 20th century. First, the sparsely populated region south of the Tehachapi Mountains acquired a quickly increasing immigrant population, spurred by oil business and a reputation for good weather. Over a million immigrants came, mostly from the ASB and China. These newcomers did not want to be governed from Monterrey, and the original population of Alta did not want their state flooded by immigrants, so it was by mutual agreement that the southern half of Alta was split off as a new state, Media California. Then, in the 1930s, the ‘Dust Bowl’ devastated the Mexican northeast, forcing hundreds of thousands to abandon their destroyed farms. The Llanurenses, as they were called, largely settled in San Felipe and San Cristóbal provinces of Alta California.

In 1963, the Native tribes east of the Sierra Nevada confederated and became a separate state as the Las Haónas Confederation, further diminishing Alta California to its current borders.

 

[Frank]

So just to get an idea as to what @Upvoteanthology's idea looks like, here's Suriname/New Torarica overlaid into @FrankCesco's New Tuscany:

As you can probably see, Suriname does take up a small-ish chunk of the Neotuscan coast and cuts into Etruria-Atlantica. But then again, New Tuscany is kind of huge enough that it could wouldn't mind having Suriname be an exclave.

Now the main question would be if England, the Netherlands, Spain, and (especially) Portugal have Tuscany lay claim to that much of South America, especially given that much of Italy was at the time under Spanish influence (especially in the Two Sicilies)

Ok, that's fine then. Suriname can have that piece of New Tuscany if this is needed to solve this problem.

I'm FrankCesco

 

[Neoteros]

Regarding South America: If it is possible to combine the two without losing either the artwork or the creative vision of either, that seems best to me, though we should hear from the creators. I'm still quite embarrassed that I missed Upvoteanthology's PM. Since she did put forward her idea first, my sense is that it ought to have priority, but I also don't want to assign Frank "homework"... and I'm also just glad that we're having a productive discussion about it.

@Neoteros - I like the local color a lot. If no one else is working on a more detailed map of Italy, I'd happily take a crack at it. Was the reference to Tianjin at all influenced by my mention of the Russian/Manchurian settlement there? So I have been imagining a foreign concession in that city like the ones that existed historically. I left open the question whether other countries also have settlements there still today, or just the Russian Imperial Commonwealth. I also have not addressed the question of who controls the rest of the city - whether there is a single China, multiple Chinas, a federated China, et cetera. You're suggesting that Tianjin is a city-state, correct? That's interesting and naturally leads me to ask just what China is in this timeline.

The Tianjin @frank_ originally mentioned is quite obviously based on the historical concession but, since there were several concessions in Tianjin, this might mean at least two things:

1) The independent city-state of Tianjin comprises only the former Italian concession, something that'd be highly unlikely since then it would be a landlocked and Vatican City-sized city-state without any sort of value, or 2) the independent city-state of Tianjin is the smallest federal state in the world, with the former concessions having their own laws and their own legislatures, and with the state as a whole being a member of several supra-national organizations at once. I really like this idea since this Tianjin would end up resembling something straight out of a Neal Stephenson novel, a Hong Kong on crack cocaine more similar to a pirate haven than an actual state, that would probably be a US libertarian's wet dream if it weren't for all those different ethnicities and religions co-existing peacefully and intermarrying at a rate that would make a neo-Nazi have a heart attack.

As for China, I think that due to your stronger version of Russia the Qing Dynasty was screwed even harder than in OTL, because the Great Game might end up including China as well.

Here's a map of the Qing Empire:

I fully expect the areas in light yellow not to be a part of TTL China, and maybe not even South China would be a part of it, either: the territorial losses that Portugal has suffered in northern Brazil due to butterflies could be balanced by them keeping Formosa and - along with the British and French - gaining more territory in Guangdong.

So...

Manchuria and Mongolia - part of the PIC, according to the map on your website;
Dzungaria - the genocide is butterflied away, and today the northern half of Xinjiang is an Oirat-speaking khanate closely aligned to the PIC, with Ürümqi as its capital;
Kashgaria - the Dungan Revolt is successful, and today the southern half of Xinjiang is an Uyghur-speaking emirate under a descendant of Yaqub Beg;
Tibet - the British penetrate in the region much earlier as a result of Russia's increased influence, and replace the Dalai Lama, who flees to Dzungaria, with their puppet the King of Bhutan, who restores the Tibetan Empire, that today is kind of like a wealthier (due to Tibet's resources) version of Bhutan; the Dalai Lama was invited back in Tibet in 1950, and today he wields an immense amount of influence over both Dzungaria and Tibet, also owing to his status as a "bridge" between the British-influenced and PIC-influenced parts of Buddhist Central Asia; however, he doesn't have the same charisma or reputation as our Tenzin Gyatso and, instead of being a Gandhi-like figure in the eyes of the world, he's just another religious leader.
Yunnan - as the restored Nanzhao Kingdom, it's an ethnically diverse warlord state turned constitutional monarchy.
The Zhuang Kingdom, between Yunnan and Guangxi, has a similar history, but Moism plays a very big role in the state.
The Federal Republic of Nanyue is a Liangguang-based state born in 1999, when the former British, French and Portuguese colonies decided to become a much bigger version of Tianjin; the capital is Guangzhou.
Formosa is a former Portuguese colony, and the northernmost outpost of the Austronesian world; just like the Philippines in OTL, it has been massively influenced by the culture of its former colonial overlord, and the lingua franca of the country is basically a Portuguese-based counterpart to the Spanish-based Chavacano creole of the Philippines.
The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom covers the diverse region of Southeast China; the premature death of Hong Xiuquan allowed an extremely ambitious young man of Hakka descent to rise to power, mostly by promising the British that his rule would've seen the introduction of a more traditionalist form of Christianity to the state, rather than Hong's heretical beliefs. He indeed delivered, but the Church of the Heavenly Kingdom that he founded, while based on beliefs considered orthodox by a wide variety of Protestant denominations, ended up resembling an idealized version of primitive Christianity; the office of Taiping Heavenly King was granted to God himself, while the country was transformed into a pseudo-Tolstoyan Christian anarchist federation. The experiment did not last long, and today the Heavenly Kingdom is a federal constitutional monarchy, but the Church of the Heavenly Kingdom lives on, as one of the most liberal Christian denominations in the world, on par with the Waldensians of Piedmont.
The Chinese Empire has survived - under a dynasty other than the Qing - but, similarly to South Korea, it was under de facto military rule for several decades, with the local junta pushing an agenda heavy on militarism, nationalism and tradition. Just like OTL South Korea, the country has democratized in the last few decades, and it's a First World country as developed as South Korea, but they really don't like the Jesus-worshipping hippies to their south, or the Buddha-worshipping barbarians to their north - as a result, they're figuratively fellating Confucius pretty hard, and it shows - young Chinese people who study abroad often decide to stay abroad, sick and tired of the conformist and almost military-like culture of the homeland.

 

[Gian]

The Tianjin @frank_ originally mentioned is quite obviously based on the historical concession but, since there were several concessions in Tianjin, this might mean at least two things:

1) The independent city-state of Tianjin comprises only the former Italian concession, something that'd be highly unlikely since then it would be a landlocked and Vatican City-sized city-state without any sort of value, or 2) the independent city-state of Tianjin is the smallest federal state in the world, with the former concessions having their own laws and their own legislatures, and with the state as a whole being a member of several supra-national organizations at once. I really like this idea since this Tianjin would end up resembling something straight out of a Neal Stephenson novel, a Hong Kong on crack cocaine more similar to a pirate haven than an actual state, that would probably be a US libertarian's wet dream if it weren't for all those different ethnicities and religions co-existing peacefully and intermarrying at a rate that would make a neo-Nazi have a heart attack.

As for China, I think that due to your stronger version of Russia the Qing Dynasty was screwed even harder than in OTL, because the Great Game might end up including China as well.

Here's a map of the Qing Empire:

I fully expect the areas in light yellow not to be a part of TTL China, and maybe not even South China would be a part of it, either: the territorial losses that Portugal has suffered in northern Brazil due to butterflies could be balanced by them keeping Formosa and - along with the British and French - gaining more territory in Guangdong.

So...

Manchuria and Mongolia - part of the PIC, according to the map on your website;
Dzungaria - the genocide is butterflied away, and today the northern half of Xinjiang is an Oirat-speaking khanate closely aligned to the PIC, with Ürümqi as its capital;
Kashgaria - the Dungan Revolt is successful, and today the southern half of Xinjiang is an Uyghur-speaking emirate under a descendant of Yaqub Beg;
Tibet - the British penetrate in the region much earlier as a result of Russia's increased influence, and replace the Dalai Lama, who flees to Dzungaria, with their puppet the King of Bhutan, who restores the Tibetan Empire, that today is kind of like a wealthier (due to Tibet's resources) version of Bhutan; the Dalai Lama was invited back in Tibet in 1950, and today he wields an immense amount of influence over both Dzungaria and Tibet, also owing to his status as a "bridge" between the British-influenced and PIC-influenced parts of Buddhist Central Asia; however, he doesn't have the same charisma or reputation as our Tenzin Gyatso and, instead of being a Gandhi-like figure in the eyes of the world, he's just another religious leader.
Yunnan - as the restored Nanzhao Kingdom, it's an ethnically diverse warlord state turned constitutional monarchy.
The Zhuang Kingdom, between Yunnan and Guangxi, has a similar history, but Moism plays a very big role in the state.
The Federal Republic of Nanyue is a Liangguang-based state born in 1999, when the former British, French and Portuguese colonies decided to become a much bigger version of Tianjin; the capital is Guangzhou.
Formosa is a former Portuguese colony, and the northernmost outpost of the Austronesian world; just like the Philippines in OTL, it has been massively influenced by the culture of its former colonial overlord, and the lingua franca of the country is basically a Portuguese-based counterpart to the Spanish-based Chavacano creole of the Philippines.
The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom covers the diverse region of Southeast China; the premature death of Hong Xiuquan allowed an extremely ambitious young man of Hakka descent to rise to power, mostly by promising the British that his rule would've seen the introduction of a more traditionalist form of Christianity to the state, rather than Hong's heretical beliefs. He indeed delivered, but the Church of the Heavenly Kingdom that he founded, while based on beliefs considered orthodox by a wide variety of Protestant denominations, ended up resembling an idealized version of primitive Christianity; the office of Taiping Heavenly King was granted to God himself, while the country was transformed into a pseudo-Tolstoyan Christian anarchist federation. The experiment did not last long, and today the Heavenly Kingdom is a federal constitutional monarchy, but the Church of the Heavenly Kingdom lives on, as one of the most liberal Christian denominations in the world, on par with the Waldensians of Piedmont.
The Chinese Empire has survived - under a dynasty other than the Qing - but, similarly to South Korea, it was under de facto military rule for several decades, with the local junta pushing an agenda heavy on militarism, nationalism and tradition. Just like OTL South Korea, the country has democratized in the last few decades, and it's a First World country as developed as South Korea, but they really don't like the Jesus-worshipping hippies to their south, or the Buddha-worshipping barbarians to their north - as a result, they're figuratively fellating Confucius pretty hard, and it shows - young Chinese people who study abroad often decide to stay abroad, sick and tired of the conformist and almost military-like culture of the homeland.

I love most of that plan, though perhaps given that Spain and Portugal were once part of a personal union (the Iberian Union), maybe that gets transferred to the Spanish Philippines once Portugal breaks free.

 

[Neoteros]

I love most of that plan, though perhaps given that Spain and Portugal were once part of a personal union (the Iberian Union), maybe that gets transferred to the Spanish Philippines once Portugal breaks free.

Formosa would almost certainly be a pain in the ass for any Manila-based government, but it could work.

Alternatively, all the areas in dark yellow in the above map - except for Formosa - could be part of China in this timeline, if we want to keep all Han lands together. The thought of having a Kuvira expy be a brutal yet competent and visionary warlord in early 20th century China sounds very appealing to me, considering how she's based on a couple of actual figures in Chinese history.