Bahia de Todos los Santos: Spanish Colonization of the Mid-Atlantic

How will Carolina deal with immigration? Will protestant Europe wish to place their hopes on a catholic nation? Spanish is much more foreign than English to Central and Northern Europeans.

Although the absence of Slavery will mean a much greater focus on industrialization. 1810 Carolina is much more populous, larger, wealthier and more stable than 1810 USA. And as a Spanish speaking nation it will enjoy much greater influence in Latin America as well.
 
How will Carolina deal with immigration? Will protestant Europe wish to place their hopes on a catholic nation? Spanish is much more foreign than English to Central and Northern Europeans.

Although the absence of Slavery will mean a much greater focus on industrialization. 1810 Carolina is much more populous, larger, wealthier and more stable than 1810 USA. And as a Spanish speaking nation it will enjoy much greater influence in Latin America as well.

Larger and wealthier, and in some aspects stable but the new country is going to still face the common hang ups of US OTL primarily dealing with aforementioned immigrants and securing the lands they claim. Ie. a lot of wars with the Natives.

Immigrants tend to go where the land and the opportunities are. Like in OTL Protestant US still attracted a large number of Catholics, but we can certainly see Nativists creep up in Carolina against the Protestant immigrants.

I can still see Germans and Irish being the biggest immigrants to Carolina, but we are obviously going to get a lot more Spanish immigrants to Carolina. The larger impact I think will be on the other Latin American countries as migrants who would have gone to places like Argentina or Mexico are more likely to head to Carolina in this TL. This may mean 1. Smaller populations for these countries 2. A greater diversity of European ancestry.
 
Will Australia and New Zealand receive the bulk of British immigration? South Africa might go to Britain sooner too.
 
Will Australia and New Zealand receive the bulk of British immigration? South Africa might go to Britain sooner too.

Possibly, but there is still Virginia. They may become more English than OTL but we know Nouvelle Rochelle/New York City is going to become the most diverse city in the world. South Africa has...possibilities...a multicultural south and a Boer North...
 
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Areas of Immigration Interest

Through the 1850s several areas in particular are going to receive an particularly large degree of settlers from Immigrants and from Carolino settlers.

  • Ohio Valley and the Mid-West: Securing access to the Great Lakes, Carolino and immigrants are going to move into the new farm lands and multitude of mines set up. In particular Toledo is going to become eventually the largest city in Carolina west of the Apalchen mountains taking the title from Nueva Cadiz. In particular German immigrants are going to be drawn to the region but also Northern Italian migrants.
  • La Trinidad: The area roughly corresponding to the Trinidad or Trinity river is going to see a lot of migration from Joseana's African and Mixed population, bringing the region ethnically and culturally into Joseana. The area will see immigrants mostly from Ireland.

  • Rio Medio Valley and Nueva Extremadura: The industrial center of western Carolina, immigrants especially Irish and Protestant Germans will be drawn to the mine's and later factories that will spring up around Monterrey. This will be equally important for integrating Nueva Extremadura and Carolina into the rest of Carolina as stage coach and later railroads reach out as far as Alta Sonora and eventually California.

  • It will be through la Trinidad and and Nueva Extremadura that the first Trans-Continental Railroad will be constructed, later followed by another one further north across Los Pampas.

  • California: Will be the last area to receive settlers and migrants of this current period of settlement and immigration but will herald the start of the next period as the California Gold Rush of the 1850s-1860s sparks new settlements up and down Carolina's pacific coast.
 
How will Carolina deal with Native Americans? Will Carolina will start an intermixing or war? Will Carolina will make a Manifest Destiny? Will Carolina will start an territorial expansion outside of the continent?
 
How will Carolina deal with Native Americans? Will Carolina will start an intermixing or war? Will Carolina will make a Manifest Destiny? Will Carolina will start an territorial expansion outside of the continent?
Carolina can into oceano pacifico!
 
Aftermath of the Misisipi War
Aftermath of the Misisipi War

For Carolina the victory in the Misisipi War would bring ups, downs, and assorted events to the forefront of the Carolino people and the new Presidente of Carolina, Nicolas Gonzalez de Rivilla.

Ending his governorship of the Province of Apalchen during the Misisipi War Nicolas Gonzalez successful ran for a senatorial position within the Cortes General and following the closure of the Misisipi War was elected as Presidente in what would be known as the Panic of 1818. The Panic of 1818 was the result of the economic slowdown in North America following the Misisipi War, the economic recession also was combined with the Post-French Republic and Post-Independence doldrums through the world economy. De Rivilla and the Cortes General spent the Panic of 1818 and 1819 working against the economic recession and its effect on the Carolino economy, in particular inflation and mass unemployment. Heavy government intervention was used to provide fiscal safety valves, forgive land debt, and provide economic stimulus to internal infrastructure within Carolina to combat the inflation and unemployment.

A thorny issue would be the integration of formerly Virginian territories into Carolina, particularly large sections of formerly Virginia Apalchen and the Michigan Peninsula. The end of the war prompted an exodus of settlers to Virginia which depleted the manpower of the regions, but also prompted issues as many of those that remained were uncooperative to the Carolino government and Carolino settlers. It is here that the regional governments of Ohio and Carolina Oriental took the reins of bringing the new territories into Carolino compliance. A carrot and stick approach was taken. Regional officials began a process of reaching out to the formerly Virginian settlers, finding most traction with recent Amish and Mennonite immigrants from the Low Regions and the Germanies who had held Virginian citizenship for barely four years. From there the regional governments slowly cracked the resolve of the remaining original English-speaking settlers, allowing them certain privileges ranging from allowing them to take land and bi-lingual language policies. The stick approach was only needed a handful of times, with violent local holdouts being put down by the Carolino Legion. These territories would continue to limp along with marginal economic success until later in the century when the 2nd Industrial Revolution would see the need for coal lead to the creation of a booming mining industry.

As settlers move into the heartland of North America Presidente de Rivilla commissioned a new overland expedition to explore the new territory gained as a result of the Misisipi War. All land south of the 49th Parallel was officially ceded to Carolina by Virginia, but that did not mean others had claims to the vast territory spreading westward. In particular the two rivals that concerned de Rivilla were the British from their outposts in Hudson Bay and the Russians operating from Alaska, both angling to spread their influence into the Pacific North-West threatening Carolino territory across the North American continent and the settlers moving up through California. With expeditions to establish outposts along the Fuca coast (Oregon-Washington) already underway, de Rivilla wanted an overland route that would be eventually followed by Carolino settlers, part of the expedition’s mission was to also deal with Indio tribes they met along the way. Lead by Jose de Haro, the overland expedition crossed the continent, mapping out the course of the Missouri or Oscuro River, over the Sierra Nevada Mountains into the Snake River and finally onto the Suerte River (Columbia River) to the Pacific Ocean.

The final crowning achievement for de Rivilla’s Presidente before his retirement was laying the foundations for the future capital of Carolina, Colombia. Having commissioned the French architect, Pierre L’Enfant, to design the city. Surveying the land along the Misisipi, L’Enfant looked for a section of land which would be well above the flood tides of the river and he found it on bluffs along the coast of Joseana close to an older Spanish fort (Memphis, TN). While he did die before construction on the capital began, the majority of L’Enfant’s notes were passed down to the city planners who took over the project after his death. Land that which was to make Colombia were given up by the regions of Carolina Oriental, Joseana, and Gran Pampas- in particular the provinces of Chattanooga and Marianna; and the settlement of Jerico in Gran Pampas. De Rivilla would spend his two weeks in Presidency in the newly constructed site of the Assembly of the Cortes General in Columbia, Presidente Joaquin del Pozo would be the first sitting Carolino Presidente to take up residence in the so called “Green House”, the residency of all future Carolino Presidents.

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Hmm, what I largely need is ideas to write about! I think my next update will shoot for the Carolino Navy and Anti-Piracy efforts.
 
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Can we see a map of North America? It's become rather hard to follow the borders. Also what happened in the aftermath of the Napoleonic wars?
 
Can we see a map of North America? It's become rather hard to follow the borders. Also what happened in the aftermath of the Napoleonic wars?

I need to find a better blank map.
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Carolina will inadvertently follow a similar isolationist path OTL US did thanks to the economic crisis. They would focus on internal development.
 
Hopefully, Carolina's northern border won't follow the US's OTL border exactly. There's no reason for a completely different country to have the same borders.
 
Hopefully, Carolina's northern border won't follow the US's OTL border exactly. There's no reason for a completely different country to have the same borders.
That's impossible to achieve. While it may look straight on the map, the US-Canadian border is as much of a mess as European ones.
 
Author Notes: In OTL for many years historians of Lucas Vasquez de Ayllon’s failed colony believed the original colony to be in Virginia not far from Jamestown on the York river. However recent investigation has placed the location of the colony along the Carolina coast, most promisingly along the Santee or Pee Dee river. The authors Douglas T Peck and Paul E Hoffman where I obtained most of the information for this TL from believed the location to be Winyah Bay in South Carolina. However, the states of North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia all have historians claiming the location of the colony was in their states.

Part 1: Where it all began.

The lead up to the Spanish colonization of the Mid-Atlantic had in fact a long trail of persons who made it possible. First, by Ponce de Leon who in 1513 discovered La Florida and would later attempt a failed colony attempt in 1521. Second, by one Pedro de Salazar, a slave trader who traveled up along the coastline of the eastern seaboard of North America. The discoveries of de Leon and de Salazar sparked interest in one Lucas Vasquez de Ayllon.

Lucas Vasquez de Ayllon had arrived in the New World in 1501 having a background in the study of law and order he would go on to be a Spanish Judge and be very influential toward the management of several territories and economic enterprises in Hispaniola. He would even join Ponfilio de Narvaez in his expedition to apprehend Hernan Cortes. De Ayllon’s attempts to make himself the legal authority of the expedition would see de Narvaez put him back on a ship for Cuba prior to de Naravaez’s defeat by Cortes. Hungry for wealth and power he was regarded by many of his detractors as a tyrant and was known to have at least one mistress.

De Allyon dispatched one Francisco Gordillo to chart the eastern coast of North America, he was also joined by another navigator, Pedro de Quejo who worked for a rival of de Allyon’s in Hispaniola. Both men were slave traders who had been sailing in the Caribbean for several years.

With two caravels of 60 men they worked their way along the coastline, anchoring at one point in the Bahia Jordan on the Jordan river. There however they were met by hostile natives who attacked them before the Spanish navigators could abduct several to take back to Santo Domingo for training as “interpreters”. [1] Regardless, both waited several days then sailed back along the coast and grabbed 70 slaves (lest their venture yield no profit for themselves and their masters) returned to Santo Domingo and gave very favorable reports on what they had seen. Wild but good land and natives of good stature who could be well used as a source of slave labor.

De Ayllon was pleased with this news and immediately began the legal processes to claim the land for himself (dueling with Oritz de Urrutia, who de Quejo was employed for rights for establishing a colony). However, he was dissatisfied with the hostility of the natives and through shrewd bargaining gained the services of de Quejo and commissioned him to explore further up the coast. In November 1522 de Quejo arrived in what he would name “Bahia de Todos los Santos” as he arrived there close to All Saints Day which is celebrated on November 1st. There he met with the Chesepiooc tribe, Algonquin speaking natives who lived close to the mouth of the bay. They were peaceful and traded with de Quejo, who in particular took a liking to the tobacco from the West Indies that de Quejo had brought to trade with. De Quejo explored the bay for a month, naming several of the rivers in particular after several saints whose festivals were also in November. Rio San Juan [2], Rio San Leo [3], Rio San Martin [4], and Rio Santa Maria [5]. He also named the southern tip of the eastern shore of the bay the Cape of San Juan. The expedition would return to de Ayllon fortunately just days before he was to leave to set monitor for Spain to take petition against Governor Diego Colon, the son of the explorer Cristobal Colon, which would eventually lead to Colon’s total ouster of power in the New World.

In the Court of Charles V who had settled into his new home following the Communeros revolts, de Ayllon found sponsorship and legal right to found his colony. He had decided instead to move his claim north to the Bay of All Saints that de Quejo had found. De Ayllon went after his petition with all the guile he could muster, which was a great deal, painting a very flattering picture of the land, likening it to Andalucia and saying that he being not a military man would surely not follow the example of Cortes’ rebellion. He did stumble in one or two instances. Such as mentioning some natives being very hostile while others being more complacent. Fortunately for de Ayllon the lure of the land was high in the court, he even had the support of the Emperor’s secretary. His claim granted, de Ayllon returned to Hispaniola to prepare for the expedition.

Perhaps very fortunately, de Ayllon’s own future fortunes would not be as smooth as he hoped they would be. At this point though the train of persons responsible for what would be colonization of the region had reached many. Ponce de Leon, Pedro de Salazar, Lucas Vasquez de Ayllon, Oritz de Urrutia, Francisco Gordillo, Pedro de Quejo, and Emperor Charles V. There would be many more who would help the Spanish colony survive.

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[1] – In OTL they were treated well by the natives and traded with them for a month before returning to Santo Domingo.

[2] – James River

[3] – York River

[4] – Rappahannock River

[5] – Potomac River
I read this historical event when I was little. It impressed me a lot. So awesome!
 
I've been away from this thread for a bit: refresh my memory (or point me to a post) - how did Carolina get all that pelf west of Texas while remaining buddies with the Mexicans?

The 1818 Treaty of Nouvelle Rochelle saw the majority of Carolino land claims granted, the Michigan peninsula and all land claims south of the 49th parallel west of Lake Michigan was ceded to Carolina.

Seems a bit of a coincidence that they get the same border west of Lake Michigan as the OTL US. Also, Hispano-wank. :biggrin:
 
Seems a bit of a coincidence that they get the same border west of Lake Michigan as the OTL US. Also, Hispano-wank. :biggrin:

That's what I was saying beforehand. It's ludicrous historical parallelism to have a country that arose in completely different circumstances get at least a portion of their border that's way too close to OTL's. I'd be fine with the OTL border with Mexico surviving because of the Rio Grande/Rio Bravo, but the 49th Parralel is an invisible line created by cartographers. It's absurd that it'd still be used as a border. Then again it may be partially because of the lousy quality of the blank map used.
 
Founding of the Carolino Navy
Founding of the Carolino Navy

With independence came new responsibilities for the Carolino government, in particular the responsibility of thousands of miles of ocean coastline as well as several island chains. Prior to Independence the protection of Carolina shipping had been handled by the Spanish navy from its bases our of Cristiana, Bahia, San Agustin, Miami, and Nuevo Cadiz. During the fight for independence much of this navy had turned its guns on the Carolino Comuneros, the navy that fought for the Convention of Roble largely being made up of privateers operating out of the Bajamas. Without the power of the British navy, naval operations for Carolina would have cost them all of their Caribbean possessions. This concern would be championed by the father of the Carolino Navy, Juan Delgado.

Having a long record as a merchant, privateer, and comunero following victory for the Convention of Roble, Delgado was instated within the administration of Carolina’s navy. Unfortunately, his early lobby for funding to create several frigates for war fell on deaf ears during the early years of the Republic, it was in the years just prior to the Misisipi War that Delgado was able to turn the Cortes General around on the issue. The first two ships were named after ships used by the founding patrons of Carolina to reach Carolina, the C.R.N. Capitana, and C.R.N. San Nicholas. Additional ships were named after the founding patrons, C.R.N. Ayllon, C.R.N. Cavallero, C.R.N. Urruita, and the C.R.N. Rivilla. Additional ships were named after the rivers of the Bahia de Todos los Santos, such as the C.R.N. San Juan, C.R.N. San Leon, C.R.N. San Martin, and the C.R.N. Santa Maria. The C.R.N. Capitana would be Delgado’s flagship throughout his service. Though, the reason for the Cortes’ sudden interest in funding a navy wasn’t so much Delgado’s persuasion but more world events beyond Carolina.

In Europe, the war for Republican France had taken a downturn. Their failed invasion of Spain would be the final straw for the ambitions of the Republican government that sought to install a greater French empire across Europe. During their drive for Madrid the French military was surrounded by British-Austrian forces that had managed to land on the coast of Navarra and Catalonia, defeating the French invasion, the Savoy revolt and invasion of France lead by the Napoleons which contributed to leading to the overthrow of the Republican government and Bourbon Restoration. This lead to an immigrant wave of French republicans to the New World, many going to former French colonies or the newly independent republics. This would lead fuel to the fire of border conflicts between the newly independent states such as the Granadan Expedition, the Venezuelan invasion of the Republic of Llanos, and the Triple War between Granada, Ecuador, and Peru. These conflicts inevitably disrupted trade across the Caribbean Sea and soon saw the privateers who had fought against the Spanish turn to pirates attacking shipping from the newly independence republics and states.

Carolino merchants were no exception to many of the pirates that plagued the Caribbean in the 1800s-1820s. Raids by pirates also occurred directly on Carolino territory, one notable example being the Boca Raid on Santo Domingo. Though Carolino shipping faced problems elsewhere, from the Barbary Pirates in the Mediterranean to the Indo-Pirates of the Far East and even Russian threats along the Pacific Coast. With these numerous threats, Delgado received what he asked for. Eight frigates were constructed in the shipyards of Bahia to be used by the Carolino Navy to policy its shipping lanes and defend its coastlines. While with the authority granted to the new department of the Navy Delgado laid down the first naval bases on continental Carolina at Mabila, San Agustin, and Bahia he would take official residence in Distrito Dominicana, the largest city on Santo Domingo island. From here he could take his war against the Caribbean Pirates which he would do even through the Misisipi War.

Delgado pursued a policy of keeping his fleet of ships together, by keeping them together as one fleet he was able to disperse any pirate ships from the areas that the fleet traveled through. Forcing them to steer clear of specific shipping lanes or run them aground where the Carolino Navy could deal with them.

Though these fleet actions would also lead to several instances of near war, such as the 1823 Mosquito Incident. The Mosquito Incident involved the San Juan, San Leon, Ayllon, and Cavallero pursuing a pirate vessel off the coast of Cuba, the ship being known as Mosquito. When the Carolino ships managed to catch up to the Mosquito the pirate crew abandoned ship and fled toward the shore with Carolino marines hot on their trail. Just when the Carolino marines were returning from shore three Spanish navy vessels sighted the Carolino ships and demanded they stand down, hand over the Carolino marines that had landed on Cuba and leave Spanish Cuban waters. The Carolino commander refused and both fleets shot warning shots at once another. Eventually, the two sides compromised by handing over the Mosquito and its pirate crew to the Spanish before leaving Cuban waters, the incident still sent an uproar in Carolina and Spain with fears of a war breaking out again between the two.

Carolino fleet actions in the Caribbean also earned the on and off trust or ire of the other Latin American nations. It would increasingly be seen throughout the 19th Century that wherever Carolino ships went so did their foreign policy. It was through a direct approach that the Barbary Pirates were defeated and the kidnapping of Carolino sailors were halted. The Carolino navy protected shipping for both Carolina and Mexico in the Atlantic and Pacific. The Carolino Navy helped expand Carolina’s influence into the Pacific Northwest, putting pressure on both hostile tribes of Indios and the aggressive Russian-American Company.
 
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