Is there any POD in the Xxth Century that we can get Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland and Greenland one country? Maybe a consequence of Central Powers victory in the Great War?
United Scandinavia
- Thread starter Musketeer513
- Start date
Have the Essen incident go differently, Sweden join the Central Powers and after the CP victory acquires a protectorate over Finland. The threat of resurgent, fascist Russia creates a lot of concern in Norway leading to an alliance that adds Denmark (don't mention the Union of Kalmar) and hence Greenland. During the war the Nordics occupy Iceland as a base against Russian sub's and commerce raiders. Post-war they realise that in the new world of supra-national blocks a stronger and deeper union would be beneficial and the Nordic Federation is born.
How about this:
1. Sweden reduces defence less 1925.
2. Rickard Sandler continues as Minister of Foreign Affairs. Support for Finland during the Winter War is stronger.
3. The Norwegians actually believe Swedish military intelligence that warned them of German troops loading in the Baltic ports on the 31st of March and of the imminent invasion on the 6th of April since Sandler delivers it officially. The Norwegians issue a full mobilisation.
4. The Danes, aware that the Norwegians are fighting hard and believing it their duty to delay the Germans fight for three days. Part of the army and navy flee to Sweden. They recapture and sabotage the Aalborg airfield in the process.
5. Sweden supports Norway as they supported Finland durign the Winter War. The German invasion fails, and the Germans pull back after 2 months of heavy fighting.
6. The suggested Swedish-Finnish state union goes through Autumn 1940, since for some reason the Soviets approve it. Finland does not join Germany in the war against the Soviets).
7. After ww2, the Nordic countries form a defensive alliance (suggested OTL but failed since Denmark and Norway wanted it to be part of NATO and Sweden did not and Finland could not due to the peace agreement). Combined with increased cooperation in the Nordic council and a customs and economic union, it brings the Nordic countries closer together. They form a currency union in the 60s and go into a federation style union in the 1980s.
1. Sweden reduces defence less 1925.
2. Rickard Sandler continues as Minister of Foreign Affairs. Support for Finland during the Winter War is stronger.
3. The Norwegians actually believe Swedish military intelligence that warned them of German troops loading in the Baltic ports on the 31st of March and of the imminent invasion on the 6th of April since Sandler delivers it officially. The Norwegians issue a full mobilisation.
4. The Danes, aware that the Norwegians are fighting hard and believing it their duty to delay the Germans fight for three days. Part of the army and navy flee to Sweden. They recapture and sabotage the Aalborg airfield in the process.
5. Sweden supports Norway as they supported Finland durign the Winter War. The German invasion fails, and the Germans pull back after 2 months of heavy fighting.
6. The suggested Swedish-Finnish state union goes through Autumn 1940, since for some reason the Soviets approve it. Finland does not join Germany in the war against the Soviets).
7. After ww2, the Nordic countries form a defensive alliance (suggested OTL but failed since Denmark and Norway wanted it to be part of NATO and Sweden did not and Finland could not due to the peace agreement). Combined with increased cooperation in the Nordic council and a customs and economic union, it brings the Nordic countries closer together. They form a currency union in the 60s and go into a federation style union in the 1980s.
Folks automatically think of Swedish Iron ore at this point. That may or may not have been important. Either way the reduction of acess to the fishing in the North Sea & Baltic would be a serious hit on the ability of the nazis to feed the industrial workers of their new empire. OTL they were heavily dependant on the northern fishing fleets for high nutrition fish harvest. Reduce this to only the Dutch North Sea fleet and occupied Europe is a big step closer to famine.
Other Allied benefits...
Reduced ability to interdict northern convoys to USSR.
No Norwegian forward bases for Atlantic submarine and surface raiders.
Allied bomber bases north of Germany.
No SKS precision machine products for Germany.
Allied shorter air route to USSR.
Threat of commando raids and secondary invasions along the northern littoral.
Soviet armies facing Finland can redeploy south.
ect.. ect..
Easiest and most plausible way push more unified Scandinavia is that USSR captures and annex Finland during Winter War or USSR occupy and vassalise Finland on 1944. Then There might be more will to creation of more unified Scandinavia.
Another way is that EU dissolves and Scandinavian nations form own trade union. Some people have even proposed that.
Another way is that EU dissolves and Scandinavian nations form own trade union. Some people have even proposed that.
yourworstnightmare
Banned
One of the troubles with 20th Century PoD is that you have to make the unified Nordic nation a non- nation. Because at this point there are very living separate Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Finnish and even Icelandic national identities. Nordic brethren sure, but Slavic brethren was not enough for Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia. Somehow you need to have a Scandinavian nation where the people still feel like they live in the Swedish national state or the Norwegian national state etc.
Deleted member 1487
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/sweden-and-norway-stay-one-country-in-1905.420285/
This with your POD gets everything but Denmark; perhaps then after WW1 they work out a deal with Denmark to resist foreign threats as they are stronger together than letting the great powers push them around.
I like that! Maybe the still united Norway/Sweden then causes Essen's little foray into preemptive war, the CP victory et cetera.
I must remember than for v2.0 of the EDC, I didn't really cover Scandinavia in detail except for the Essen business.
Maybe the Nordek succeeds and gradually federalizes? IOTL the Soviets opposed the Finnish membership in the Nordek and this first slowed the formation of organization and eventually prevented it. The UK not joining the EEC would also help, as that would more or less prevent Denmark from joining the EEC and move it more towards other Nordic countries.
Simple, as Denmark retain Sweden and Norway in a personal union, easy if you pick the influence Ideas. Wait till your adm level 20, annex them and boom. Instant Scandinavia.
Devvy
Donor
I would suggest that post WW2, that Nordek is the best ground for this. One of my favourite areas! 
- After seeing the Inner Six form the ECSC and then EEC, the Nordic countries see this and decide to form their own Nordic Community. The Nordic Passport Union (free movement of people) is already in existence since the early 1950s, providing a free movement and travel area.
- There were two main reasons why Nordek (Nordic Economic Community) failed;
1) Norway needed time and investment to transform it's economy to compete within a Nordic Single Market, which it wasn't offered, which frustrated things slightly here. Little did they know at the time that Norway was about to get a massive shot of oil to the economic arm...but perhaps it stumbles through, and Norway is fine in the long run due to the North Sea Oil.
2) The Soviets pressured Finland to drop out - personally I think they were scared of Finland being tied to Denmark, Norway & Iceland in NATO. If there is a NATO-WP conflict, and the Nordic Bloc strengthens, does this mean the Soviets have a new de facto enemy next door in Finland? Better to force them to stay out and avoid the risk entirely. Only way I can see this being avoided is by Den/Nor/Ice agreeing to be part of a neutral Nordic bloc instead, dropping out of NATO. NATO was never popular in Iceland, but Iceland was crucial to NATO as a North Sea-Atlantic watch point - perhaps Iceland drops out of NATO, but grants basing rights to NATO. Whether it's politically possible for Denmark and Norway to drop out of NATO in preference of the Nordics I don't know.
- So now we have a free movement area, and an economic union, and probably a co-operative foreign policy outlook (neutrality, and de facto mutual defence in protection of neutrality). If they get this far, a Nordic Parliament is only a tiny step away, and a unified currency (perhaps 1980s). I doubt the Krona (Crown) will be an acceptable name to non-monarchial Finland, but maybe the Nordic Skilling for history? Will help stimulate cross-border trade and links, especially since a lot of the Nordic people travel within the region for family, education, holiday, business.
- Then we begin (1990s onwards) to address indirect barriers; unified banking policy, single technology market (ie. single phone numbering plan, pan-Nordic mobile operators), single energy market, cross-border media (ie. television) single aviation market as low cost carriers start, all at least overlooked by the Nordic Parliament. Perhaps cross-border Sami policies. Calls from Greenland, Faroes and Aland (and perhaps Sami) for more direct participation at the Nordic political level. *Maybe* some effort to at least standardise letters and spelling rules within Danish/Norwegian/Swedish.
By this point, although maybe technically not a federation, it's increasingly difficult to tell them apart on the foreign stage; it's beginning to look more like an incredibly devolved country. The common heritage and culture of the Nordics will help bind; but importantly it means that all 5 of the countries are generally singing off the same hymm sheet even if they aren't legally obliged due to lack of federation.
- After seeing the Inner Six form the ECSC and then EEC, the Nordic countries see this and decide to form their own Nordic Community. The Nordic Passport Union (free movement of people) is already in existence since the early 1950s, providing a free movement and travel area.
- There were two main reasons why Nordek (Nordic Economic Community) failed;
1) Norway needed time and investment to transform it's economy to compete within a Nordic Single Market, which it wasn't offered, which frustrated things slightly here. Little did they know at the time that Norway was about to get a massive shot of oil to the economic arm...but perhaps it stumbles through, and Norway is fine in the long run due to the North Sea Oil.
2) The Soviets pressured Finland to drop out - personally I think they were scared of Finland being tied to Denmark, Norway & Iceland in NATO. If there is a NATO-WP conflict, and the Nordic Bloc strengthens, does this mean the Soviets have a new de facto enemy next door in Finland? Better to force them to stay out and avoid the risk entirely. Only way I can see this being avoided is by Den/Nor/Ice agreeing to be part of a neutral Nordic bloc instead, dropping out of NATO. NATO was never popular in Iceland, but Iceland was crucial to NATO as a North Sea-Atlantic watch point - perhaps Iceland drops out of NATO, but grants basing rights to NATO. Whether it's politically possible for Denmark and Norway to drop out of NATO in preference of the Nordics I don't know.
- So now we have a free movement area, and an economic union, and probably a co-operative foreign policy outlook (neutrality, and de facto mutual defence in protection of neutrality). If they get this far, a Nordic Parliament is only a tiny step away, and a unified currency (perhaps 1980s). I doubt the Krona (Crown) will be an acceptable name to non-monarchial Finland, but maybe the Nordic Skilling for history? Will help stimulate cross-border trade and links, especially since a lot of the Nordic people travel within the region for family, education, holiday, business.
- Then we begin (1990s onwards) to address indirect barriers; unified banking policy, single technology market (ie. single phone numbering plan, pan-Nordic mobile operators), single energy market, cross-border media (ie. television) single aviation market as low cost carriers start, all at least overlooked by the Nordic Parliament. Perhaps cross-border Sami policies. Calls from Greenland, Faroes and Aland (and perhaps Sami) for more direct participation at the Nordic political level. *Maybe* some effort to at least standardise letters and spelling rules within Danish/Norwegian/Swedish.
By this point, although maybe technically not a federation, it's increasingly difficult to tell them apart on the foreign stage; it's beginning to look more like an incredibly devolved country. The common heritage and culture of the Nordics will help bind; but importantly it means that all 5 of the countries are generally singing off the same hymm sheet even if they aren't legally obliged due to lack of federation.
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Actually, the Icelandic currency is the Króna (and Sweden only has the Krona because of the Scandinavian Monetary Union in the first place).
Devvy
Donor
Considering I am in Iceland 2-3 times a year and have a draw full of ISK, I literally have no idea why I wrote that. Brain fart, thanks for the correction.
PS: I made the comment about krona in Finland based upon DrakonFin's comment saying basically that (if I remember right!) when I did a short united nordics timeline some years ago.
I would suggest that post WW2, that Nordek is the best ground for this. One of my favourite areas!
- So now we have a free movement area, and an economic union, and probably a co-operative foreign policy outlook (neutrality, and de facto mutual defence in protection of neutrality). If they get this far, a Nordic Parliament is only a tiny step away, and a unified currency (perhaps 1980s). I doubt the Krona (Crown) will be an acceptable name to non-monarchial Finland, but maybe the Nordic Skilling for history? Will help stimulate cross-border trade and links, especially since a lot of the Nordic people travel within the region for family, education, holiday, business.
You could just make it a currency union. 1 Finnish mark = 1 Swedish krona = 1 Norwegian krone = 1 Danish krone = 1 Icelandic krona. Notes and coins issued with the same weight, size and value and can be used anywhere in the Nordics since they are the same value.