War of the Worlds 1953 aftermath

[Geon]

It didn't take long for the Allies to break apart after the defeat of the Axis in WWII... do you really see humanity holding together, let alone bothering to try, after this?

However, to use your example, it took the common menace of Nazi Germany to actually bring the allies together. A common threat to humanity would at least temporarily cause the various powers to ally. Especially in light of the fact that this was a global conflict. Cities in every major country were destroyed. I could see the five major permanent nations of the Security Council deciding to unite for a common cause.

Yes, I know at this time it was Nationalist and not Communist China that was the Chinese representative. It is likely given the emergency that the SC would vote to allow Communist China to join. I think world politics would be put on hold in light of the definite possibility of global genocide.

As to more permanent rearrangement, again consider that nuclear weapons may have just become useless now that nations on Earth have a means to block the effects of nuclear weapons. Further, many nations are likely to be dealing with internal problems once the attack is over. You've got refugee crises that would make our present day problems pale in comparison, national economies are likely in ruins, and military forces have been destroyed throughout the globe. That is a good recipe for insurrection in many nations. It is likely the world political stage would be far different then what it is in OTL today.

And to reemphasize again, the Martians are probably not through with the Earth. Anyone with any common sense will know this. The end of the film isn't necessarily the end of the menace. The Martians need Earth and they will be back. It is time therefore for an international force to be formed for when/not if there will be another invasion.

 

[Resurgam]

Yes, I know at this time it was Nationalist and not Communist China that was the Chinese representative. It is likely given the emergency that the SC would vote to allow Communist China to join. I think world politics would be put on hold in light of the definite possibility of global genocide.

And the Soviet Union, which is happily pushing totalitarian tendencies on eastern Europe?

 

[Geon]

And the Soviet Union, which is happily pushing totalitarian tendencies on eastern Europe?

There would be a question whether the Soviet Union would be in a position to push anything at this point. Many of their major cities are in ruins and the government may or may not be able to hold things together following the war.

In an earlier post you point out that the Soviet Union was devastated. How well will their political/economic/military structure hold together after their nation has been ravaged twice in a 12 year time span.

 

[threadnecromancer]

There would be a question whether the Soviet Union would be in a position to push anything at this point. Many of their major cities are in ruins and the government may or may not be able to hold things together following the war.

In an earlier post you point out that the Soviet Union was devastated. How well will their political/economic/military structure hold together after their nation has been ravaged twice in a 12 year time span.

People thinking that way could be a problem, if NATO decides the Soviets are weak and starts pushing for Eastern European freedom, then that could easily cause the Cold War (or even WWIII) to become a serious possibility.

Same with China, is Formosa left unscathed? I could see the KMT making a play for re-unification etc.

A lot of peoples, with a lot of burning issues, will remain which could very well prove the deathknell of a united front.

 

[freivolk]

My headcannon is, that the Martians had really very limited intel, what they had to expect on Earth. Like the allknowing narrator tells at the beginning, they observed Earth just by telescopes. And they seem to be no regular space travellers. This whole crash-landing on Earth seems improvised.

My theory:
1. The Martians didn´t really figure out the importance of the USA. They didn´t really knew were the political centre of this area is. Their first landings concentrated on the Southwest, because all this Fissionbombs exploded there and they wanted to know whats up there.
2. The Martians hesitated to attack costal areas. They didn´t really knew what to expect from our oceans. For all they knew, the Earthlings could be an amphibious species, which would flee to the Oceans and destroy the Landmass. Thats the reason they didn´t attacked Washington, New York and Los Angeles as soon as possible, and why they took some time to attack London.
3. The Martians noticed our World Wars. They figured out that a Western Europe power bloc and a Eurasien bloc fought agaainst a Central European bloc. They saw how all this Central european citys turn up in flames and saw Central Europe as destroyed (therefore there seems no landings in Germany and the French goverment flees to Straßbourg, which seems still be a save town). They figured out that Moscow and Paris are important centres of the Blocs and took them out really fast. So it is possible that the Soviet leadership was completly destroyed.

 

[Geon]

freivolk

The narrator in both the film and the book indicates that the Martians had carefully watched our world for several years. They likely noticed how important the oceans were to humanity but they would probably-depending on how good their telescopes were noticed that the oceans were a major source of transit and that humans weren't amphibious.

Also, while it's not mentioned in the movie I can't see a technologically advanced civilization like the Martians not monitoring our radio and television frequencies. They would have gotten at least a basic idea of what we look like and what our major world centers were - assuming they were able to decipher our languages.

I do agree with you that they probably landed in the southwest because they may have seen that as the center of our atomic production. Just because one of their craft shrugged off one nuclear blast doesn't mean they couldn't do the same for something more powerful. Also, I agree they may have decided to attack when they did figuring the Earth was still recovering from a major war.

 

[freivolk]

freivolk

The narrator in both the film and the book indicates that the Martians had carefully watched our world for several years. They likely noticed how important the oceans were to humanity but they would probably-depending on how good their telescopes were noticed that the oceans were a major source of transit and that humans weren't amphibious.

Also, while it's not mentioned in the movie I can't see a technologically advanced civilization like the Martians not monitoring our radio and television frequencies. They would have gotten at least a basic idea of what we look like and what our major world centers were - assuming they were able to decipher our languages.

I do agree with you that they probably landed in the southwest because they may have seen that as the center of our atomic production. Just because one of their craft shrugged off one nuclear blast doesn't mean they couldn't do the same for something more powerful. Also, I agree they may have decided to attack when they did figuring the Earth was still recovering from a major war.

I must say, the whole "amphibian Earthlings" is just an idea to show how difficult it maybe for a complet alien specie to interpret the limited data they got about us.
The Martians are really very alien,

their means to communicate and how their own senses interprete their enviorment, may be so differnt, that I´m not
sure, if the old "they watch our TV"-trope really works.

 

[Geon]

We know they had some form of video feed since one of their "cameras" was captured in the film. That means they have some knowledge of video monitoring. It wouldn't be a stretch to assume they also could monitor our various broadcasts radio and television. They might not totally understand what they see but they would get a good idea of what we look like and some of our basic habits.

 

[Matt Wiser]

Another thing that may have influenced their thinking: they were watching Earth for quite some time, The Martians' military command probably saw the results of two world wars, and noticed that to end the second, nuclear weapons were used. The Martians may have felt that there would be a third war, and it would be nuclear. They wanted Earth relatively intact and not contaminated by Fallout, so their military leadership may have told their political leaders, "Either we attack now, or when we have no choice, they will have blown themselves up, and the planet is a radioactive ruin unfit for habitation."

Their leadership may have also wondered what was killing their invasion force at the end. Either natural bacteria, or bacterial warfare, they would have no way of knowing.

 

[freivolk]

Another thing that may have influenced their thinking: they were watching Earth for quite some time, The Martians' military command probably saw the results of two world wars, and noticed that to end the second, nuclear weapons were used. The Martians may have felt that there would be a third war, and it would be nuclear. They wanted Earth relatively intact and not contaminated by Fallout, so their military leadership may have told their political leaders, "Either we attack now, or when we have no choice, they will have blown themselves up, and the planet is a radioactive ruin unfit for habitation."

Their leadership may have also wondered what was killing their invasion force at the end. Either natural bacteria, or bacterial warfare, they would have no way of knowing.

I agree that the nukes forced the Martians hands. Still it may be more the fear, that the earthlings sooner or later will develop weapons, which are a match for the Martians.

 

[Matt Wiser]

And it may have been an all-or-nothing gamble.

 

[RanulfC]

There was an 'aftermath' TV series pitched a decade earlier that would have had a "United" Earth going into space to confront the "Martians" on their own terms:
http://www.war-ofthe-worlds.co.uk/war_of_the_worlds_tv_pal.htm

In general you WOULD see a more 'united' Earth even if it meant there would be internal frictions BECAUSE we would expect them to come back, after all it's what WE would do in similar circumstances

I'd agree with nuclear weapons and power being the 'enabling' factor in the invasion. Not because they were afraid we'd ruin the real-estate values but because in the "cold logic" of the supposed thinking unlocking atomic power puts Humans on the path to where the "Martians" are now and they had better 'strike' before Humanity got much further and while their technology was superior. Of course in the movie, (like the book) they really WERE from Mars with all that implies where as later, (like the 1988 TV series and most other uses post-mid-50s) they only used Mars as a staging area for the invasion, (which would make 'some' sense as we couldn't see what they were doing or notice them at that distance but...) and came from beyond the Solar System.

"After" the invasion we'd pretty much have to unite AND scramble to learn and adapt the "Martian" technology because of the simple fact we couldn't count on them NOT coming again. And soon. Socially progress, political animosity, you name it would have to take a back-seat to getting ready for round two and I wouldn't actually be surprised if things came out in a similar manner to ID4-2 with humans learning all the 'wrong' lessons from the first time and getting out teeth kicked in on the second go around though I doubt we'd be as ill-prepared as ID4-2 BECAUSE we'd have put aside re-building and quality of life in favor preparing unlike more 'modern' society. (WWII being in recent memory and less 'attachment' to a higher standard of living)

I think a 'continuation' from the movie would make a good scenario, especially given the rapidly advanced technology coupled with the shocks of new science and technology, (in the 1950s "continental drift" was still considered a 'fringe' science concept and we had, as evidenced by the dialogue, a very much less than complete understanding of atomics let alone "stuff" beyond that) colliding with late-1940s sensibilities and attitudes.

(Commander JJ Adams of the UE Cruiser C-57D with his trusty science officer Morbius and his cute yeoman daughter? Hmmm )

Randy

 

[RanulfC]

And as an open question, while I note that having the 'invasion' take place in the nation where the audience is a per the movie to give it more of a 'buy-in' (nothing new as witnessed by the American version/adaption on the heels of WotW original publication which so incised Wells in the first place) but Wells had an absolutely good reason for having ONLY England invaded in the original work. I've pointed it out myself in a discussion of Turtledove's "Teddy Bear" aliens in "The Road Not Taken" that it only makes sense to try and secure a 'planet-head' in a location with as many natural barriers to counter-attack as possible. Which brings into question the actual 'military-ness' of the "Martians" since they not only don't really do that at all but are spread over the whole planet in the initial wave. Despite their advance technology they seem very socially and culturally 'stagnant', (which again was a point being made I suppose) but was significantly going to bite-the-in-the-butt in the long run as this was also obviously NOT an actual colonization attempt as in the original WotW story. This seemed to be strictly an attack. Anyone else get that impression?

Randy

 

[Matt Wiser]

Their plan was likely to be attack first, wipe us out, then send for the colonists.

 

[freivolk]

And as an open question, while I note that having the 'invasion' take place in the nation where the audience is a per the movie to give it more of a 'buy-in' (nothing new as witnessed by the American version/adaption on the heels of WotW original publication which so incised Wells in the first place) but Wells had an absolutely good reason for having ONLY England invaded in the original work. I've pointed it out myself in a discussion of Turtledove's "Teddy Bear" aliens in "The Road Not Taken" that it only makes sense to try and secure a 'planet-head' in a location with as many natural barriers to counter-attack as possible. Which brings into question the actual 'military-ness' of the "Martians" since they not only don't really do that at all but are spread over the whole planet in the initial wave. Despite their advance technology they seem very socially and culturally 'stagnant', (which again was a point being made I suppose) but was significantly going to bite-the-in-the-butt in the long run as this was also obviously NOT an actual colonization attempt as in the original WotW story. This seemed to be strictly an attack. Anyone else get that impression?

Randy

I also think, that the Martians in the book attacked Britain alone, because it looked like a good bridgehead. The original Wells-invasion seems actually more like a reconnaissance-mission. A rather small team, send on a one-way, which should test the strengh of the Earthlings and, in case of a success, should live from the land till reenforcments arrive.
But in the case of the movie, such a strategy wouldn´t be helpfull, because they know the Earthlings have nukes and fare-range weapons. So they try to swarm Earth with large numbers and take all defenses down through surprise.
My theory is, that their plan was a full success against the USSR. They identified Moscow as a political center, landed around the city and wiped out the complet soviet leadership. It didn´t worked out in the case of the USA, because they didn´t identify Washington as important center.

 

[RanulfC]

I also think, that the Martians in the book attacked Britain alone, because it looked like a good bridgehead. The original Wells-invasion seems actually more like a reconnaissance-mission. A rather small team, send on a one-way, which should test the strengh of the Earthlings and, in case of a success, should live from the land till reenforcments arrive.

That'd hold true in either case as they were planning on living here once they got 'humans' out of the way. And it was "dozens" of landing in the initial wave with "cylinder after cylinder lighting the sky and no one and nothing to stop them" at the end of the first half of the book. The 'break' between waves comes as Mars moves out of position to launch new cylinders. So while it would seem 'logical' to send a military only force it doesn't' actually make sense since they are PLANNING on living here anyway. You'd see either Australia or Japan getting the next set of cylinders in a couple of years as Mars comes around again in a repeat pattern.

But in the case of the movie, such a strategy wouldn´t be helpfull, because they know the Earthlings have nukes and fare-range weapons. So they try to swarm Earth with large numbers and take all defenses down through surprise.

That doesn't follow as they know they have a defense against nukes, (force fields) and the ability to shoot down just about anything we send their way. (Fun 'fact' about the movie; they delivered the big bomb by flying wing when it was well known that the Martians had shot down almost 100% of the planes sent in against them tactically, and more than one of which COULD have carried a nuclear weapon, {one-way suicide mission but the Martian's can't assume we wouldn't do something like that} if not a very big one. So why the flying wing? I'd always assumed it was for the 'wow' factor but it turns out the last YRB-49A had been sitting on at the end of the runway at Northrop for almost two years and was scheduled for scrapping in December of 1953 so there may have been an attempt to generate some public support for putting it in a museum or on display through the movie. A more "likely" though not in the context of the movie itself 'reason' for it's use IN the story line is because it was already a known "thing" that the flying wing was harder to track with radar than a 'normal' aircraft but due to it's instability flying it was a constant handful for even experienced pilots. In other words they were using if to achieve a 'stealth' attack on the Martian's long before it became a "thing" in military let alone the public mind )

So spreading the attacks doesn't make all that much sense and they quite obviously would have had the technological superiority to 'defend' against any human counter attack had they still decided to go for an isolated 'beach-head' on an island. On the other hand had we humans been 'dispassionate' enough about it then we could make England, (Japan, Australian wherever they landed) uninhabitable even if we couldn't actually 'get' the Martians. (Nukes were far from the only weapon we had and raining, literally, tons of chemical agents down on the Martians while less spectacular would have been denying them the ability to 'live-off-the-land' in a significant way) My 'gut' feeling is this was supposed to represent an, (as mentioned previously) "all or nothing" attack and colonization effort which there would be no follow up to. It would fit the narrative as we'd be in no shape to repel another attack the next time, (about two years) Mars was in position. On the Gripping Hand though we couldn't take that chance either and we'd HAVE to be prepared just in case.

My theory is, that their plan was a full success against the USSR. They identified Moscow as a political center, landed around the city and wiped out the complet soviet leadership. It didn´t worked out in the case of the USA, because they didn´t identify Washington as important center.

It's a nice idea to take the USSR out of the 'future' policy but I'd find it hard to believe they could ID Moscow but not Washington. It may be that the cylinder aimed at or near Washington actually didn't make it for some reason and the other two came down separated and ineffective but even by 1953 the 'obvious' population concentrations would have been pretty easy to figure. I don't think they would have managed to 'catch' the leadership of the USSR any better than they did that of France, the UK or the US. In fact as I recall they didn't even managed to get the UN which operated pretty much 'normally' through the whole movie

Note that Stalin died in March of 1953 so depending on when the movie time-frame is that could have been a factor but I have doubts we wouldn't have the USSR in the aftermath of the WotW timeline.

Anyone want to venture a guesstimate on how long it would take us to reverse engineer some of the Martian machinery? If it looks to take longer than two years, (hypothetical deadline for the next 'wave' of an invasion) then we'd have to concentrate on finding ways to defeat their defenses somehow to even the odds rather than brute forcing out way through. One person pointed out to me that the force bubbles are probably not fully closed as they needed to still support the war machines by their 'magnetic' tripods. Nuclear mines might work or at the very least we know magnetics might get through the shields. They used their weapons while the shields were up so those might work as well though I have my doubts about that given HOW they used them.

Randy

 

[freivolk]

That'd hold true in either case as they were planning on living here once they got 'humans' out of the way. And it was "dozens" of landing in the initial wave with "cylinder after cylinder lighting the sky and no one and nothing to stop them" at the end of the first half of the book. The 'break' between waves comes as Mars moves out of position to launch new cylinders. So while it would seem 'logical' to send a military only force it doesn't' actually make sense since they are PLANNING on living here anyway. You'd see either Australia or Japan getting the next set of cylinders in a couple of years as Mars comes around again in a repeat pattern.

The book is very clear about it, that it is just 10 cylinders. 10 explosions on Mars, 10 cylinders. All landing near London. This in no colonist fleet, its propably just a couple of hundred Martians. A small military unit send to test Earth defense on one of his strongest points. Why strongest? Because they can see from space, that Britain is one of the most developed places on Earth. If they can conquer it, it means that their weapons are truly superior.

That doesn't follow as they know they have a defense against nukes, (force fields) and the ability to shoot down just about anything we send their way. So spreading the attacks doesn't make all that much sense and they quite obviously would have had the technological superiority to 'defend' against any human counter attack had they still decided to go for an isolated 'beach-head' on an island. On the other hand had we humans been 'dispassionate' enough about it then we could make England, (Japan, Australian wherever they landed) uninhabitable even if we couldn't actually 'get' the Martians. (Nukes were far from the only weapon we had and raining, literally, tons of chemical agents down on the Martians while less spectacular would have been denying them the ability to 'live-off-the-land' in a significant way) My 'gut' feeling is this was supposed to represent an, (as mentioned previously) "all or nothing" attack and colonization effort which there would be no follow up to. It would fit the narrative as we'd be in no shape to repel another attack the next time, (about two years) Mars was in position. On the Gripping Hand though we couldn't take that chance either and we'd HAVE to be prepared just in case.

We can assume, that the Movie-Martians had observed our nuke-test and estimated that their shields can take it. They propably hope, that their rays can take anything down, what the Eartlings throw at them. But they just will know for sure after the landing, simply because all the intel they have come from their telescopes and some TV-signals. They need to take Earth down fast to avoid the risk, that the Earthlings have something else up in their sleeves.
Besides something else I noticed: the Movie-Martians seems to have no flying machines! And they propably have no experience crossing an ocean. Makes the whole bridgehead-tactic unpractical. If they want to conquer a place, they have to land in the near it.

It's a nice idea to take the USSR out of the 'future' policy but I'd find it hard to believe they could ID Moscow but not Washington. It may be that the cylinder aimed at or near Washington actually didn't make it for some reason and the other two came down separated and ineffective but even by 1953 the 'obvious' population concentrations would have been pretty easy to figure. I don't think they would have managed to 'catch' the leadership of the USSR any better than they did that of France, the UK or the US. In fact as I recall they didn't even managed to get the UN which operated pretty much 'normally' through the whole movie

If you watch Moscow through your Supertelescope on Mars, you see a large, heavy industrialized city, which definitly dominate a large landarea. Dependend how good you telescope is, you propably also see that all traffic lines lead to Moscow and you propably als had seen like the War moved till the suburbs of Mocow and then moved further and further away, till the citys in Central Europe go bust. So even from space you can figure out, that Moscow is a important place. You can´t say the same about Washington.
The UNO still function, because they sit in New York and the Martians still haven´t attacked New York ( This is the place again for my "the Martians hesitate to attack costal-areas"-theory)
This my even be the reason the french goverment can escape, if the Martians avoided to land between the Channel-coast and Paris. But Moscow lies in the middle of a continent.
And if a functional soviet goverment still exists, why they don´t use their nukes.

 

[Matt Wiser]

Because, in 1953, their bombs could only be delivered by Tu-4 Bulls (the reverse-engineered copy of the B-29).

 

[RanulfC]

The book is very clear about it, that it is just 10 cylinders. 10 explosions on Mars, 10 cylinders. All landing near London. This in no colonist fleet, its propably just a couple of hundred Martians. A small military unit send to test Earth defense on one of his strongest points. Why strongest? Because they can see from space, that Britain is one of the most developed places on Earth. If they can conquer it, it means that their weapons are truly superior."

And that's what I get for not reading much of the original book and it being a Looooong time ago at that? But I'd say it wasn't that they figured that Britain was 'strongest' but that it's an island.

We can assume, that the Movie-Martians had observed our nuke-test and estimated that their shields can take it. They propably hope, that their rays can take anything down, what the Eartlings throw at them. But they just will know for sure after the landing, simply because all the intel they have come from their telescopes and some TV-signals. They need to take Earth down fast to avoid the risk, that the Earthlings have something else up in their sleeves.
Besides something else I noticed: the Movie-Martians seems to have no flying machines! And they propably have no experience crossing an ocean. Makes the whole bridgehead-tactic unpractical. If they want to conquer a place, they have to land in the near it.

Not sure you really 'need' flying machines if you have counter-gravity and what every they used to get the cylinders to Earth. (No explosions mentioned that I recall) If the CG is limited to 'leg' length then seas can be an issue but I have my doubts as a "habitable" Mars and inferred in the dialogue was a slowly dying/drying planet so they had to have some historical experience with "seas" even shallow ones. (Otherwise any large 'island' land-mass is going to be pretty safe as they have far to much risk of 'missing' and landing in the ocean)

If you watch Moscow through your Supertelescope on Mars, you see a large, heavy industrialized city, which definitly dominate a large landarea. Dependend how good you telescope is, you propably also see that all traffic lines lead to Moscow and you propably als had seen like the War moved till the suburbs of Mocow and then moved further and further away, till the citys in Central Europe go bust. So even from space you can figure out, that Moscow is a important place. You can´t say the same about Washington.

Actually you can as it is obviously an 'important' place in the same manner. They would easily identify national 'capitals' or "important places" (tm) in the run up and Washington would be as obvious as Moscow on that scale.

The UNO still function, because they sit in New York and the Martians still haven´t attacked New York ( This is the place again for my "the Martians hesitate to attack costal-areas"-theory)
This my even be the reason the french goverment can escape, if the Martians avoided to land between the Channel-coast and Paris. But Moscow lies in the middle of a continent.

I'd go with the "stay away from coasts" but they landed in-land and around LA which is a port city in and of itself. (Ignore the real fact they could use "local" scenery to save costs on the movie ) I'd say they tried to hit Washington and New York but probably had to land in-land and move towards them which wouldn't necessarily be as easy as it sounds.

And if a functional soviet goverment still exists, why they don´t use their nukes.

Because, in 1953, their bombs could only be delivered by Tu-4 Bulls (the reverse-engineered copy of the B-29).

What he said mostly and who says they didn't? Just because it's not mentioned doesn't mean it didn't happen. Delivery could have been by truck or placed in a bunker as a 'mine' in the path of the advance. Problem is nukes give off some radiation at all times, (though far less than you'd think given the payload, still enough to be detectable if you're looking close enough) and without an effective means of air-delivery they can probably spot and avoid one. Again, interesting they used one in the movie when the program had already been canceled and all but one of the 'wings' broken up for scrap already

"Post-War" I'd wonder how the politics plays out? Unless one or the other is wiped out you'd still have a "stand-off" between the USSR and US though both are now almost as bad off as the rest of the world after WWII but with every incentive to get back on their feet as soon as possible because we'd expect another attack. Even if we found evidence that the "Martians" had shot their bolt the OTHER incentive that we'd have is that we'd be absolutely sure the "other guys" (and pretty much anyone who could do so at any rate) was going full blast to obtain and study/reverse-engineer "Martian" gear. And not being one of those having the technology would have major ramifications in geopolitical power and prestige.

Randy

 

[Catsmate]

The TV show is not great. It was surprisingly gory for 1980s television, but the first season went with the premise that the 1953 invasion was somehow hushed up worldwide. Which is like saying we, in 2016, managed to hush up a massive worldwide alien invasion that took place in 1976.

Very Doctor Who.
"Do you remember the Zygon gambit with the Loch Ness Monster? Or the Yeti in the Underground? Your species has an amazing capacity for self-deception".