Renovation: An Eastern Roman Timeline

[Gukpard]

it's hard for them to take on the Delhi Sultanate lest they cooperate with the Rajput states

It know it is hard, India have been divided for years so it was almost impossible to have only one house controlling the entire sub continent, but with a good PoD the Yadava can conquer much of southern and eastern India, enought to give them the manpower and the money to take over Delhi

 

[Dragos Cel Mare]

Just hoping that Ramchandradeva has not been fooled by that f***king Alauddin Khilji into submission. YADUVANSHA CHIRANJIVI DIGVIJAYI BHAVA!

And Gukpard the Yadavas collapsed around 1321 not 1334. All just because Ramchandradeva got fooled by Alauddin Khilji (that b*****d). Well even if the Yadavas stay unconquered (which was much too easy for them) it's hard for them to take on the Delhi Sultanate lest they cooperate with the Rajput states (who Ramchandradeva had unfortunately somewhat alienated by raiding their lands). And all the while doing this they will have to keep the Hoysalas and Kakatiyas quiet or at best ally with them against Delhi.

It know it is hard, India have been divided for years so it was almost impossible to have only one house controlling the entire sub continent, but with a good PoD the Yadava can conquer much of southern and eastern India, enought to give them the manpower and the money to take over Delhi

Call it just me, but I have a feeling you're being Islamophobic...

 

[Krakenov]

I'm personally not a fan of a unified India so early. It seems more natural to have the subcontinent divided between several powers.

To make things interesting, perhaps have Delhi dominant in the north and Vijayanagar strong in the south with a variety of smaller states scattered around slowly being swallowed up by these 2 larger nations. You might even see Orissa or Bengal be mid-tier powers in the region, acting as counterweights to both Delhi and Vijayanagar in the east.

Actually, I can't recall what this TL did with the Timurids. Is it likely that they'll push into the north and cause the collapse of Delhi? Will we still see a Mughal empire in a hundred years?

 

[Dragos Cel Mare]

I'm personally not a fan of a unified India so early. It seems more natural to have the subcontinent divided between several powers.

To make things interesting, perhaps have Delhi dominant in the north and Vijayanagar strong in the south with a variety of smaller states scattered around slowly being swallowed up by these 2 larger nations. You might even see Orissa or Bengal be mid-tier powers in the region, acting as counterweights to both Delhi and Vijayanagar in the east.

Actually, I can't recall what this TL did with the Timurids. Is it likely that they'll push into the north and cause the collapse of Delhi? Will we still see a Mughal empire in a hundred years?

I'll give ya a link.

 

[Dragos Cel Mare]

I'm personally not a fan of a unified India so early. It seems more natural to have the subcontinent divided between several powers.

To make things interesting, perhaps have Delhi dominant in the north and Vijayanagar strong in the south with a variety of smaller states scattered around slowly being swallowed up by these 2 larger nations. You might even see Orissa or Bengal be mid-tier powers in the region, acting as counterweights to both Delhi and Vijayanagar in the east.

Actually, I can't recall what this TL did with the Timurids. Is it likely that they'll push into the north and cause the collapse of Delhi? Will we still see a Mughal empire in a hundred years?

Here.

 

[Deleted member 67076]

I'm personally not a fan of a unified India so early. It seems more natural to have the subcontinent divided between several powers.

To make things interesting, perhaps have Delhi dominant in the north and Vijayanagar strong in the south with a variety of smaller states scattered around slowly being swallowed up by these 2 larger nations. You might even see Orissa or Bengal be mid-tier powers in the region, acting as counterweights to both Delhi and Vijayanagar in the east.

Actually, I can't recall what this TL did with the Timurids. Is it likely that they'll push into the north and cause the collapse of Delhi? Will we still see a Mughal empire in a hundred years?

It does seem a bit odd to unite India so fully- but things are always in flux and unification need not be the entire subcontinent.

Now if the Yavadas survive I think it'd be more likely to eat the weaker states to the east before pushing north (just from looking at the geography pushing into the northern floodplains seems quite difficult from a southernish powerbase).

The Timurids are basically where they are in OTL, confined to Afghanistan and bits of Baluchistan, Turkmenistan and Pakistan. They're slowly feeling the pressure from both a unified Iran and northern Nomads regrouping in the aftermath of the Golden Hordes collapse. I think its quite likely they still push into India, given that the Timurid state had its legitimacy based on conquest and thus needs plunder to sustain itself.

This might actually be the Yavadas opening to take most of the continent up north- Delhi collapses under the pressure of invasion and the southerners take a bite when they can.

 

[Gukpard]

Now if the Yavadas survive I think it'd be more likely to eat the weaker states to the east before pushing north (just from looking at the geography pushing into the northern floodplains seems quite difficult from a southernish powerbase).

This might actually be the Yavadas opening to take most of the continent up north- Delhi collapses under the pressure of invasion and the southerners take a bite when they can.

Yes, the Yadavas were excellente administrators, they could bribe some decaying dinasties to join them in exange for nominal autonomy, like:

"The Delhi have fallen and the timurids are going to eat all india and destroy your clan, but you still can save your skin if you give your lands to us and help us to defend our continent while keeping your farms and other feudal stuff" (I know I'm a horrible writer)

 

[Krakenov]

It does seem a bit odd to unite India so fully- but things are always in flux and unification need not be the entire subcontinent.

Now if the Yavadas survive I think it'd be more likely to eat the weaker states to the east before pushing north (just from looking at the geography pushing into the northern floodplains seems quite difficult from a southernish powerbase).

The Timurids are basically where they are in OTL, confined to Afghanistan and bits of Baluchistan, Turkmenistan and Pakistan. They're slowly feeling the pressure from both a unified Iran and northern Nomads regrouping in the aftermath of the Golden Hordes collapse. I think its quite likely they still push into India, given that the Timurid state had its legitimacy based on conquest and thus needs plunder to sustain itself.

This might actually be the Yavadas opening to take most of the continent up north- Delhi collapses under the pressure of invasion and the southerners take a bite when they can.

That's entirely viable, but I just noticed that the map you posted earlier was set in 1415, well after the Yadavas collapsed. I think it more likely that Vijayanagar would be the primary southern empire by 1415.

Anything north of them would be heavily impacted by what you choose to do with the Delhi Sultanate. By 1415, Delhi had shrunk quite dramatically and several successor states had popped up. A lot could change in the north depending upon how aggressive the Timurids are with their incursions.

However, I still think that at the very least you'd still likely see an independent Vijayanagar, Orissa and Bengal, while the north changes as required due to your butterflies.

 

[Gukpard]

That's entirely viable, but I just noticed that the map you posted earlier was set in 1415, well after the Yadavas collapsed. I think it more likely that Vijayanagar would be the primary southern empire by 1415.

The AAR PoD happened before the Yadava collapse, so the author can butterfly it

 

[Dragos Cel Mare]

So no one noticed my complaints about Islamophobia?

Okay, then...

 

[Gukpard]

Just to know, does the Timurids still have elephants?

 

[Krakenov]

The AAR PoD happened before the Yadava collapse, so the author can butterfly it

Given that the timeline starts in 1341, it would be quite a stretch. But at the end of the day, it's entirely up to the Soverihn.


@Dragos Cel Mare - That particular comment wasn't particularly Islamophobic as far as I can tell, though I do note that he has made a comment that could be construed as such a few pages back.

 

[Gukpard]

Given that the timeline starts in 1341, it would be quite a stretch. But at the end of the day, it's entirely up to the Soverihn.

According to the emperor of the greater India it was easy for them to stay independent

Also, don't feed the troll

 

[emperor joe]

[QUOTE
The navy is being rapidly rebuilt and improved, with cannons now being mounted on ships in imitation of the italian powers[/QUOTE]
it's purxiphos time

 

[Deleted member 67076]

That's entirely viable, but I just noticed that the map you posted earlier was set in 1415, well after the Yadavas collapsed. I think it more likely that Vijayanagar would be the primary southern empire by 1415.

Huh, I didn't know this until now, but rereading the string of comments someone mentioned that it was possible to avoid that collapse through a string of events.

Anything north of them would be heavily impacted by what you choose to do with the Delhi Sultanate. By 1415, Delhi had shrunk quite dramatically and several successor states had popped up. A lot could change in the north depending upon how aggressive the Timurids are with their incursions.

However, I still think that at the very least you'd still likely see an independent Vijayanagar, Orissa and Bengal, while the north changes as required due to your butterflies.

That's fine by me, its barely been a century since things have diverged and we've got plenty of time to change things.

So far it seems: Vijayanagar in the far south, a collapsing Delhi and neighbors up north, Yadava up in the center taking most of the Deccan Plateau and creeping north and east, with Orissa and Bengal being the main holdouts up in the east alongside other minor states, probably serving as buffers.

That sounds good?

Just to know, does the Timurids still have elephants?

I don't think Timurid troops were using elephants once they lost access to Indian tribute. Feel free to prove me wrong however!

 

[Krakenov]

Huh, I didn't know this until now, but rereading the string of comments someone mentioned that it was possible to avoid that collapse through a string of events.


That's fine by me, its barely been a century since things have diverged and we've got plenty of time to change things.

So far it seems: Vijayanagar in the far south, a collapsing Delhi and neighbors up north, Yadava up in the center taking most of the Deccan Plateau and creeping north and east, with Orissa and Bengal being the main holdouts up in the east alongside other minor states, probably serving as buffers.

That sounds good?


I don't think Timurid troops were using elephants once they lost access to Indian tribute. Feel free to prove me wrong however!

Sounds great! I imagine any bigger butterflies would be heavily dependent on what you want to do with the Timurids and their successor states. Looking forward to seeing where you take this!

 

[Dragos Cel Mare]

Given that the timeline starts in 1341, it would be quite a stretch. But at the end of the day, it's entirely up to the Soverihn.


@Dragos Cel Mare - That particular comment wasn't particularly Islamophobic as far as I can tell, though I do note that he has made a comment that could be construed as such a few pages back.

According to the emperor of the greater India it was easy for them to stay independent

Also, don't feed the troll

I am not a troll; I have been a contributor to the thread since its inception.

Edit: But I will admit to trollish actions today and yesterday, so I'll apologize.

 

[emperor joe]

goodbye guys.i will see you next month

 

[Emperor of Greater India]

Call it just me, but I have a feeling you're being Islamophobic...

Well I am not Islamophobic as you tend to think. Come on friend the Yadavas ruled over the entire Deccan (sans the Kakatiyas of course) which includes my homeland Maharashtra too and the Yadavas were Marathi rulers too. I am just being affectionate towards the Yadava independence which truly was lost because of the naivete of the then Yadava ruler Ramchandradeva who believed just about every word Alauddin Khilji told him and surrendered the Deogiri Fort to him in spite of his son being approaching with relief forces . Deogiri also had enough stocks of food to easily last a prolonged siege and it's three tired defenses were almost invincible. Also Alauddin just had about 8,000 men with him which would have been easily overcome by the reinforcements under Shankaradeva. Although larger Delhian forces were on the move to aid Alauddin all that the Sultanate would have gained is a war of attrition in normal conditions. And I don't think I am being Islamophobic here just by expressing my anger against that Turk who enslaved my homeland.

According to the emperor of the greater India it was easy for them to stay independent

Also, don't feed the troll

Well not just according to me friend according to the conditions that were in place at that time. Really Ramchandradeva messed all of it up. See I am not saying just for the sake of it. What I say is fairly an accurate statement in the historical context. Hadn't he raided the Rajput states and the Solankis specifically he would have received some help from that quarter too. That man really messed up relations with the surrounding states in illusions of his own glory.

 

[Dragos Cel Mare]

Well I am not Islamophobic as you tend to think. Come on friend the Yadavas ruled over the entire Deccan (sans the Kakatiyas of course) which includes my homeland Maharashtra too and the Yadavas were Marathi rulers too. I am just being affectionate towards the Yadava independence which truly was lost because of the naivete of the then Yadava ruler Ramchandradeva who believed just about every word Alauddin Khilji told him and surrendered the Deogiri Fort to him in spite of his son being approaching with relief forces . Deogiri also had enough stocks of food to easily last a prolonged siege and it's three tired defenses were almost invincible. Also Alauddin just had about 8,000 men with him which would have been easily overcome by the reinforcements under Shankaradeva. Although larger Delhian forces were on the move to aid Alauddin all that the Sultanate would have gained is a war of attrition in normal conditions. And I don't think I am being Islamophobic here just by expressing my anger against that Turk who enslaved my homeland.



Well not just according to me friend according to the conditions that were in place at that time. Really Ramchandradeva messed all of it up. See I am not saying just for the sake of it. What I say is fairly an accurate statement in the historical context. Hadn't he raided the Rajput states and the Solankis specifically he would have received some help from that quarter too. That man really messed up relations with the surrounding states in illusions of his own glory.

All right, I can accept that.

Can we reconcile?