Hi, I've been a browser on this forum for several months now and in that time, I've noticed a large number of threads dealing with a confederate victory in the ACW. As I'm writing this there are three timelines on the front page dealing with that same thing. Obviously the civil war is a huge event in American history with many possible butterflies, but given the odds against a CSA victory, it seems to be very popular. So my question is, what do you find appealing about it? Is it just a underdog type of thing or just a large percentage of Americans on the forum.
Why do you like a Confederate victory?
- Thread starter FinalTemplar
- Start date
First, we don't "like" Confederacy victory, it's a popular Alternative History trend as "what if Nazis won" doesn't people would have liked a Nazi victory.
Then, American Civil War was an important moment of USA's history, and while it had little impact elsewhere, it's one of the founding moment of american identity, defining what america was politically, historiographically, mentally. Maybe moreso than the American Independence War.
Giving the really important proportion of Americans on the board, it's no surprise that it's considered by many persons.
Then, American Civil War was an important moment of USA's history, and while it had little impact elsewhere, it's one of the founding moment of american identity, defining what america was politically, historiographically, mentally. Maybe moreso than the American Independence War.
Giving the really important proportion of Americans on the board, it's no surprise that it's considered by many persons.
Witch0Winter
Banned
As one of those people who has a Confederate victory TL on the front page, all I can say is, well, it seemed like a neat idea at the time. 
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
Some of what's been said, plus it is kind of the ultimate dystopia -- it destroys America and creates a new nation founded on preserving slavery in one go.
well for me it's because due to the wondering what the effects of the US losing the south would have on american politics/economics/social and cultural matters since the south (whatever you consider that to ultimately mean) has had a rather big impact on america for better or worse.
Plus what would a independent south have looked like and turned out as.
it's I guess wondering what would a united Germany look like in all forms if run by say the Hapsburgs instead of the Hohenzollerns.
Plus what would a independent south have looked like and turned out as.
it's I guess wondering what would a united Germany look like in all forms if run by say the Hapsburgs instead of the Hohenzollerns.
As someone with a Civil War TL on the front page I would just like to say it involves the Confederates getting reasonably brutally suppressed - think failed European rebellions of the 1840s...
However one of the joys of a Confederate victory is you can fight the Civil War over and over again - see the works of Mr Turtledove by way of example.
However one of the joys of a Confederate victory is you can fight the Civil War over and over again - see the works of Mr Turtledove by way of example.
Morty Vicar
Banned
The ACW and WW2 and others are also interesting in that they're fought over specific ideologies, not just battles for power or land like the majority of wars. Therefore the result is not just a 'mere' boundary change, it means a seismic shift of public opinions, perceptions etc, things that really can change history significantly.
Personally there's one Confederate Victory scenario that I'd like to see but haven't yet.
The Victory of the Confederacy proves to be short lived as the shortfalls of the Confederate Constitution come to light, namely that it's government is quite powerless, even when trying to deal with disagrements between the states. This leads to the breakup of the confederacy.
However the United States doesn't fare any better, as the terms of the peace means that every state has the right to secede, several choose to do so in the face of such a humiliating defeat. the New England States led the charge, California and the Mormon territories followed suit, by the early 1880's the United States was officially dissolved after the residences of D.C. drove out the remaining members of the Federal government and turned the city over to Virginia.
What would come after that?
The Victory of the Confederacy proves to be short lived as the shortfalls of the Confederate Constitution come to light, namely that it's government is quite powerless, even when trying to deal with disagrements between the states. This leads to the breakup of the confederacy.
However the United States doesn't fare any better, as the terms of the peace means that every state has the right to secede, several choose to do so in the face of such a humiliating defeat. the New England States led the charge, California and the Mormon territories followed suit, by the early 1880's the United States was officially dissolved after the residences of D.C. drove out the remaining members of the Federal government and turned the city over to Virginia.
What would come after that?
I wouldn't say it's the ultimate dystopia at all... Just destroying American isn't necessarily bad at all especially considering all the things their government has done over the years. What it may lead to (by allowing others to take its place as the dominant power) may of course be very bad. Eg if the Nazis had somehow won that would be far far worse: not just slavery but genocide would become the 'norm'.
It may be the ultimate dystopia for Americans who fear the loss of their present global dominance, whether consciously or not, but for the rest of the world and considering how bad things could have turned out, it's hardly the worst thing that could have happened.
@Shiva,
That does sound interesting and it would certainly be a fresh take on a rather worn subject
you should write a TL Why would the terms of the peace mean every state has the right to secede? I imagine the first new amendment to the US Constitution would be to outlaw secession and for the US government to try and federalize everything as much as possible as fast as possible so it won't happen again.
I wouldn't say it's the ultimate dystopia at all... Just destroying American isn't necessarily bad at all especially considering all the things their government has done over the years. What it may lead to (by allowing others to take its place as the dominant power) may of course be very bad. Eg if the Nazis had somehow won that would be far far worse: not just slavery but genocide would become the 'norm'.
It may be the ultimate dystopia for Americans who fear the loss of their present global dominance, whether consciously or not, but for the rest of the world and considering how bad things could have turned out, it's hardly the worst thing that could have happened.
@Shiva,
That does sound interesting and it would certainly be a fresh take on a rather worn subject
Mostly things virtually every other government on the planet was doing at that time.
A Confederacy Victory means that they get to set the terms, and one of them would be to guarantee the right of every state to break away if they so wished.
Or at minimum a weakened United States would have a precedent of states being able to remove themselves from the Union, and with the humiliation of having lost I wouldn't be surprise if many wound up choosing to do so.
They hate us 'cause we're beautiful.
In all seriousness: Basically, it is a big point in American history and so alternate Civil Wars are big with us Americans. Same as how everyone makes alternate WWII timelines because it figures so large in all our respective histories.
As for liking a Confederate victory, I'll admit I have more sympathy for Johnny Reb than most (I believe that self-determination is an absolute right and that cuts some of the moral high-ground out from under the Union) But the Confederacy's defeat was the best possible outcome short of preventing the war entirely. In addition to to obvious issues with slavery, a weakened US would be bad in the 20th century, and further war in North America would be awful. Plus, race relations suffer no matter what happens post-war (Turtledove's ASB time-travellers not withstanding).
So I wouldn't say there are many here who actually would like to see a rebel victory. Even if it is fun to entertain.