That Wacky Redhead

[NCW8]

Another cracking update !

But a second commercial network would begin airing on January 1, 1982, the result of legislation passed in 1979, though years in the making before that – many remote controls sold as early as the 1960s were labelled “ITV-2” in anticipation of the fourth channel.

Not just remote controls. The Sixties vintage Black-and-White set that I "inherited" (after my parents got a Colour TV) had four channel buttons, labelled "BBC 1", "BBC 2", "ITV 1" and "ITV 2".

The Fourth Doctor himself, Jim Dale, continued past Seymour’s tenure; indeed, he had a hand in choosing the next companion, Joanna Lumley. Lumley portrayed a character more prim and proper than Seymour, and was also older, considerably over the age of thirty. [24] She remained as the principal companion for three seasons, helping to cement the tradition of companions lasting for precisely that long.

An Absolutely Fabulous Choice ! Lumley was occasionally proposed as a possible female incarnation of the Doctor (and indeed played one in The Curse of the Fatal Death). About this time OTL, the character of Romana was introduced as a companion who was on a more equal footing with the Doctor, by virtue of being a Time-Lady, to get around some of the complaints that the roles of Doctor and female companion were somewhat sexist. It is possible that Lumley's character could also be a Time-Lady.

This obviously also means that she won't be available to appear in Saphire and Steel. Does this series get made ITTL, and if so who are the leads ? It was another attempt by ITV to make their own "Doctor Who", so it's likely there will be an equivalent series ITTL.

[15] They went with the second option IOTL, choosing Kenneth Waller – who was 28 years younger than Bennett, young enough to be his son – to play the role of Old Mr Grace, caked in unconvincing old-age makeup. He lasted just one season before they reached the obvious conclusion of depicting Young Mr Grace as an unseen character;

This was the point it Jumped the Shark for me. Like many successful comedies, it went on long after it had used up its originality. There aren't many people like Cleese who are willing to stop when their at the top.

[16] Mr Mash left after the third season when the actor, Larry Martyn, made another commitment which he could not break; he was replaced by Mr Harman, played by Arthur English (the only replacement character on Are You Being Served? to outlast the original, and be better-remembered).

I must admit that I'd forgotten that Arthur English hadn't been in the series from the start.


Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[MatthewFirth]

I'm pleased to see that a 4th UK network is being launched. What would be it's structure for ITV 2, and what would it look like?

Does this also build up pressure for the US to create a 4th network. And in a question to all the Wacky viewers, who do you think should own and create the 4th network?

 

[The Professor]

I feel crafty Brainbin is garnering all the British votes for the Turtledove

A very enjoyable update. Though with RG - brilliant choice btw for a late great actor - as The Doctor what will happen with Withnail and I?

 

[nixonshead]

A fascinating update as always!

One area that did raise my eyebrows a bit was the Commonwealth Space Agency (and interesting to see space in Australia falling under a 'Commonwealth' banner ITTL and IOTL!). IOTL the UK largely lost interest in developing launch vehicles in the mid-1960s, once it was decided to use American rockets for the British nuclear deterrent (so no need to maintain a native industry, unlike for example in France). The US defence partnership also meant pretty much guaranteed launches for UK military satellites on US rockets (at least until Challenger put a stranglehold on US launch opportunities, which is when UK Skynet launches switched to Ariane 4), so there wasn't much incentive for spending the huge sums needed for an independent launch capability (even when, as IOTL, most of that money had already been spent!). As I understand it, Canada, Australia and New Zealand also enjoyed (or at least had) very close military and intelligence ties with the US - in fact far closer even than between the US and non-Anglophone NATO members in the intelligence sphere - whilst the US and UK intelligence services practically acted as a single agency. So access to US intelligence sources removes most of the incentive for their own spy sat capability, and access to US or NATO satcoms dilutes the military argument.

Without a national security angle to drive things forward, I could see an argument remaining for commercial satcom (especially in Canada and Australia's wide open spaces) and earth resources satellites, but would they really also want to go to the expense of building and maintaining an independent launch infrastructure? Or is cooperation with the US less of an option ITTL?

Richard Griffiths? Inspired! Lumley I've never developed an appreciation for, mainly because I found Ab-Fab to be hideously unfunny ::ducks for cover:: - but as that particular crime against comedy takes place outside the timeframe of this timeline (assuming it isn't butterflied away altogether), I look forward to hearing more of her adventures in time and space.

 

[NCW8]

Richard Griffiths? Inspired! Lumley I've never developed an appreciation for, mainly because I found Ab-Fab to be hideously unfunny ::ducks for cover:: - but as that particular crime against comedy takes place outside the timeframe of this timeline (assuming it isn't butterflied away altogether), I look forward to hearing more of her adventures in time and space.

That's a bit like judging Jon Pertwee's suitability to play the Doctor based upon his appearance in Worzel Gummidge. Her more dramatic roles in The New Avengers or Sapphire & Steel might give a better idea of how she might play the Doctor's companion - the former as an action-girl type, the latter as more alien.


Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Brainbin]

And now, for a very special announcement...

As you may know, the Turtledove Awards have now entered the voting round! If you have enjoyed reading That Wacky Redhead, I please ask that you consider voting for it.

TWR is competing in the following categories:

Continuing Cold War Period. As ever, an incredibly tough category, but one in which I'd like to make as strong a showing as possible;

Best Continuing Character. That Wacky Redhead herself has been nominated, and she (and I) would very much appreciate your votes!

I appreciate your continued support, and best of luck to everyone who has been nominated!

---

With that said, thank you all for your responses to my latest update! This one was a lot of fun for me to write. And now, as always, for my replies...

I am curious. Who won Best Picture for 1979, 1980, and 1981?

You'll find out in a later update. You don't think I'm just going to reveal who won for Best Picture of 1980 all willy-nilly, do you?

If you do, don’t forget to say Hello to Jason Isaacs A comparison of modern over-long films with the running time of 2001 is a recurring theme on Kermode and Mayo’s Film Review show/podcast, with Sex and the City 2 getting a particularly memorable roasting from Mark Kermode.

I have a passing familiarity with Kermode, but I was not aware of that catchphrase, nor that running gag - it's a very good one, though, considering how pretentious and overlong 2001 was (and is!) considered to be by so many of its detractors. But now, so many films are somehow even longer...

I see where you are going with the American Brothers who wrote for Taxi Drivers Brainbin. Hope that things remain and turn out the same for Cheers, or whatever it will be called, ITTL as it did IOTL.

Well, sometimes you want to go where everybody knows your name. But sometimes you can't make it, and you have to go to the dive bar down the street.

Good ending for Fawlty Towers ITTL and another fine and interesting update.

Thank you!

Ah, my interest in a Canadian Turks & Caicos plus space was immediately drowned out by my excitement about a third Fawlty Towers season. Brilliant update!

Thank you, Plumber! I'm glad you enjoy the notion of tropical islands belonging to Canada. Perhaps ITTL your family might be interested in wintering there?

Nice update overall. Richard Griffiths makes sense, and Joanna Lumley is another inspired choice. Good work, Brainbin!

I'm glad they meet with your approval, Glen

She did play the Thirteenth Doctor in "The Curse of Fatal Death"...

I suppose this means you think I should cast Rowan Atkinson as the Sixth Doctor?

Another cracking update !

Thank you, Nigel!

An Absolutely Fabulous Choice !

I see what you did there

About this time OTL, the character of Romana was introduced as a companion who was on a more equal footing with the Doctor, by virtue of being a Time-Lady, to get around some of the complaints that the roles of Doctor and female companion were somewhat sexist. It is possible that Lumley's character could also be a Time-Lady.

I like this idea so much that you can consider it canon! A Time-Lady is the perfect character for Lumley to portray while maintaining her (then-)stereotypical manner as poised and refined. Not to mention that it's a way for Lumley to channel Purdey from OTL. (She and Dale will also avoid any real-life romantic complications.)

This obviously also means that she won't be available to appear in Saphire and Steel. Does this series get made ITTL, and if so who are the leads ? It was another attempt by ITV to make their own "Doctor Who", so it's likely there will be an equivalent series ITTL.

Fair enough, but it won't be Sapphire & Steel, which has been butterflied ITTL.

This was the point it Jumped the Shark for me. Like many successful comedies, it went on long after it had used up its originality.

Only in the UK could a run of 69 episodes be described as going on "long after it had used up its originality"

I must admit that I'd forgotten that Arthur English hadn't been in the series from the start.

What's interesting about English is that he's the only one whose replacement character was appreciably different from that of his predecessor: Mash was very much the stereotypical chip-on-his-shoulder class-warfare champion-of-the-common-people type; whereas Harman, though still working-class, was much friendlier to the sales staff (even though it was he, and not Mash, who was the custodian against the backdrop of the Winter of Discontent and the Thatcherite union-busting years).

I'm pleased to see that a 4th UK network is being launched. What would be it's structure for ITV 2, and what would it look like?

A lot like Channel Four - most of the differences are in the superficial branding aspects.

Does this also build up pressure for the US to create a 4th network.

You better believe it.

I feel crafty Brainbin is garnering all the British votes for the Turtledove

Well, I'm rather nakedly trying to do so, at least

A very enjoyable update. Though with RG - brilliant choice btw for a late great actor - as The Doctor what will happen with Withnail and I?

Thank you, Professor - and as for Withnail and I, that came out in 1987 and is outside the scope of this timeline

A fascinating update as always!

Thank you, nixonshead

One area that did raise my eyebrows a bit was the Commonwealth Space Agency (and interesting to see space in Australia falling under a 'Commonwealth' banner ITTL and IOTL!). IOTL the UK largely lost interest in developing launch vehicles in the mid-1960s, once it was decided to use American rockets for the British nuclear deterrent (so no need to maintain a native industry, unlike for example in France). The US defence partnership also meant pretty much guaranteed launches for UK military satellites on US rockets (at least until Challenger put a stranglehold on US launch opportunities, which is when UK Skynet launches switched to Ariane 4), so there wasn't much incentive for spending the huge sums needed for an independent launch capability (even when, as IOTL, most of that money had already been spent!). As I understand it, Canada, Australia and New Zealand also enjoyed (or at least had) very close military and intelligence ties with the US - in fact far closer even than between the US and non-Anglophone NATO members in the intelligence sphere - whilst the US and UK intelligence services practically acted as a single agency. So access to US intelligence sources removes most of the incentive for their own spy sat capability, and access to US or NATO satcoms dilutes the military argument.

Without a national security angle to drive things forward, I could see an argument remaining for commercial satcom (especially in Canada and Australia's wide open spaces) and earth resources satellites, but would they really also want to go to the expense of building and maintaining an independent launch infrastructure? Or is cooperation with the US less of an option ITTL?

A very good question. The CSA went ahead ITTL for a few reasons: all three economies are stronger relative to where they were IOTL, and all of them are led by governments which are more interested in using public works projects to boost their prestige - and there's a touch of spite on the UK end, having been "shut out" of the EEC (granted, they contribute very little to the ESA IOTL - but it's the principle of the thing!). I should point out here that the CSA isn't going to emerge as some great rival to NASA or the Soviet Space Program; it's honestly going to have great difficulty even keeping up with the ESA. This will be made more clear when we get into the means of conveyance - which is really worthy of its own post, and I didn't want to get bogged down in writing this one (Also, the CSA, like the ESA, will work very closely with NASA going forward.)

Richard Griffiths? Inspired! Lumley I've never developed an appreciation for, mainly because I found Ab-Fab to be hideously unfunny ::ducks for cover:: - but as that particular crime against comedy takes place outside the timeframe of this timeline (assuming it isn't butterflied away altogether), I look forward to hearing more of her adventures in time and space.

No wonder you left the UK - isn't it against the law to dislike Ab Fab over there?

 

[Lindseyman]

69 episodes [/I]be described as going on "long after it had used up its originality"

"Are You Being Served" used up all its originality after 1 episode!! It ran too long as it was in OTL! Even "Dad's Army" went on too long and that was still funnier than most other comedies on TV in its last series.

Other than those personal opinions still a great last update.
PS I don't like Ab Fab either!

 

[Plumber]

Thank you, Plumber! I'm glad you enjoy the notion of tropical islands belonging to Canada. Perhaps ITTL your family might be interested in wintering there?

I'm from California! But I've always been fascinated by differently-sized Canadas.

 

[NCW8]

I like this idea so much that you can consider it canon! A Time-Lady is the perfect character for Lumley to portray while maintaining her (then-)stereotypical manner as poised and refined. Not to mention that it's a way for Lumley to channel Purdey from OTL. (She and Dale will also avoid any real-life romantic complications.)

Great ! Although I was thinking that her character might be more like Sapphire ( e.g. See this episode from about the 37:40 mark)

Only in the UK could a run of 69 episodes be described as going on "long after it had used up its originality"

What's interesting about English is that he's the only one whose replacement character was appreciably different from that of his predecessor: Mash was very much the stereotypical chip-on-his-shoulder class-warfare champion-of-the-common-people type; whereas Harman, though still working-class, was much friendlier to the sales staff (even though it was he, and not Mash, who was the custodian against the backdrop of the Winter of Discontent and the Thatcherite union-busting years).

Yes, he was good at playing the working-class-but-making-the-system-work-for-him character(I bet there's a Trope with a snappier name than that).

A lot like Channel Four - most of the differences are in the superficial branding aspects.

I guess the important difference is whether there is an equivalent of S4C (Welsh Channel 4) ITTL.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[viewcode]

Yes, he was good at playing the working-class-but-making-the-system-work-for-him character(I bet there's a Trope with a snappier name than that).

Well, now you come to mention it...

I guess the important difference is whether there is an equivalent of S4C (Welsh Channel 4) ITTL.

IOTL BBC and ITV had a statutory duty to transmit a certain amount of television in the Welsh language. This meant that the schedules for BBC and local ITV station (HTV) differed noticeably from their English equivalents (so instead of "Star Trek" at 7pm, you had "Newyddion" or "Heddiw"). This splitting across TV channels was intended to continue until the hunger strike of local politician Gwynfor Evans[1][2]. To avert his death, a separate Welsh language fourth channel (Sianel Pedwar Cymru/S4C, which literally means "Welsh Channel Four") was spun off. After this point, television in the Welsh language would be limited to S4C only. I assume something similar has happened ITTL

[1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-12062288
[2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/media/pages/h_twentieth_gwynfor_evans.shtml

 

[Daibhid C]

Not just remote controls. The Sixties vintage Black-and-White set that I "inherited" (after my parents got a Colour TV) had four channel buttons, labelled "BBC 1", "BBC 2", "ITV 1" and "ITV 2".

When I was a wee lad, my Dad had me convinced that ITV 2 existed, we just couldn't get it up here because the reception was bad...

Another intriguing update. I love the idea of Richard Griffiths playing the Doctor! Here's a picture commissioned by Doctor Who Magazine in 1997 for their own AH article about Griffiths's run as the 8th Doctor:
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/g/griffith.jpg

 

[Thande]

When I was a wee lad, my Dad had me convinced that ITV 2 existed, we just couldn't get it up here because the reception was bad...

I've seen old tellies like that but we never owned one. However, I was convinced that S4C was some mysterious hidden channel you could get if you pressed the Teletext buttons in the right order or something, because it was always listed next to Channel 4 in the TV guide and it never explicitly said that it was what replaced Channel 4 in Wales.

Reminds me of how there's all these old jokes in programmes about offending the Director General and being "transferred to BBC 3", people now miss the point of the joke because there was no BBC 3 back then and now there is.

 

[NCW8]

Reminds me of how there's all these old jokes in programmes about offending the Director General and being "transferred to BBC 3", people now miss the point of the joke because there was no BBC 3 back then and now there is.

BBC Three was also refered to in the Doctor Who episode The Daemons. The archaeological dig that freed the Daemon was being broadcast live on that channel. Just one of the indications that the Unit stories were supposed to be set a few years in the future.


Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Thande]

BBC Three was also refered to in the Doctor Who episode The Daemons. The archaeological dig that freed the Daemon was being broadcast live on that channel. Just one of the indications that the Unit stories were supposed to be set a few years in the future.


Cheers,
Nigel.

Yeah--I remember when digital TV was new and the BBC (and not just the BBC) was convinced that they had to have channels with brand subtitles like BBC Choice and BBC Knowledge, flying in the way of both common sense and almost the very idea of 'the shape of the future' predicted by examples like the one you gave. It's actually quite fascinating when you consider how 'the shape' was strong enough to overcome the authorities' convictions and create numerical channels.

A related phenomenon may be how, fifteen years ago, a film series (with very rare exceptions like Rocky and Star Trek) was NEVER allowed to get to number 4; number 3 or 4 ALWAYS had no number and a subtitle instead. People of course often mentally inserted the number because they wanted to keep track of what order the films were in and often referred to it even when that wasn't the film's title. I do think that in recent years established practice has started to crumble and conform more to common sense, perhaps because people who grew up watching these blockbuster film series are now entering the business and are airing their grievances about oddly titled sequels

It's always curious when you come across examples of people glimpsing 'the shape of the future' that way: I have a book of future predictions sent into Blue Peter by children in 1993, and one of them predicts e-readers like the Amazon Kindle exactly, down to every detail--except that it assumes you'd have to go to a newsagent and plug it in to download books and magazines. Even then it correctly realises that you could get books from any download station and thus traditional bookshops would start to decline.

 

[THE OBSERVER]

Thank you!

It was my pleasure. I was wondering if you could do an episode summary of the Fawlty Towers finale, like you do with Star Trek. But, then again, writing one for Fawlty Towers may be more complex since Cleese and Booth took weeks to write one episode, and writing a fictitious episode (Or a summary of one) might not do justice.

 

[Mr Teufel]

By the way, how did Columbo fare in this time-line? Inspired by this article: How We Created Columbo

 

[Orville_third]

BBC Three was also refered to in the Doctor Who episode The Daemons. The archaeological dig that freed the Daemon was being broadcast live on that channel. Just one of the indications that the Unit stories were supposed to be set a few years in the future.


Cheers,
Nigel.

There also was "Roland Rat"- and Colin Baker cameoed on that one.

 

[Lindseyman]

Yeah--I remember when digital TV was new and the BBC (and not just the BBC) was convinced that they had to have channels with brand subtitles like BBC Choice and BBC Knowledge, flying in the way of both common sense and almost the very idea of 'the shape of the future' predicted by examples like the one you gave. It's actually quite fascinating when you consider how 'the shape' was strong enough to overcome the authorities' convictions and create numerical channels.

And in Britain we understand that BBC 3 is late teenage/early twenties BBC (to follow on the trend CBeebies, then CBBC, then BBC 3, then BBC1) and BBC4 is basically what BBC2 was when it started. Also numbering the channels makes re-branding easier.

 

[NCW8]

There also was "Roland Rat"- and Colin Baker cameoed on that one.

There seems to be something of a trend in having puppets running their own TV companies. There's EBC1 and KMUP as well.

And in Britain we understand that BBC 3 is late teenage/early twenties BBC (to follow on the trend CBeebies, then CBBC, then BBC 3, then BBC1) and BBC4 is basically what BBC2 was when it started. Also numbering the channels makes re-branding easier.

The advantage of numbering the channels was something they should already have known. BBC Radio went through the same exercise in 1967 when the Home Service was renamed Radio 4 and the Light Programme split to make Radio 1 and 2.


Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Lindseyman]

I'm old enough to remember that! (sobs into his horlicks).
My only worry about Richard Griffiths as the Doctor is that a picture of Mr Pastry (Richard Hearne) keeps popping into my head. Surely he wouldn't play him as that type of character which is the reason why Richard Hearne was passed over for Tom Baker to replace Jon Pertwee in OTL?