Alternate Monkees & More

I know that you've gone beyond all this, and it looks like you are done, Brainbin, but I have to say that I am enjoying your TL. Reading through this part made my train trip home from Thanksgiving fly!

I am looking forward to seeing if Micky D will continue to be a working actor, escaping the typecasting he experienced ITOL. Just curious...will Michael Nesmith's career change as well?

Also, I am curious whether we will see any other performers (especially women) trying to follow in TWR's footsteps and starting production companies (or record labels).

But you have probably answered my questions already. Must read on!



< snip. Among the new characters added in the first season proper was an enigmatic greaser whom creator Garry Marshall had based loosely (and even named after) himself: Arthur "Mash" Maschiarelli (Marshall's real surname, and childhood nickname). In developing the character, Marshall had been inspired by former Monkee Micky Dolenz, who had memorably portrayed a biker in an episode of "Adam-12". [7] Though Dolenz was much taller than other members of the cast, it was decided that this would add to the mystique of the character, and quite literally help him to stand out. <snip>
 
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Interesting. In the United States, scheduling is generally far more strict - though with a few exceptions, at least one of which will become relevant to TTL in later updates!

I think that the BBC, at least until the Eighties, did have something of an anarchistic streak. Why follow the rigid structures of half-hour time-slots ?

Which premiered over twenty years ago. Not really an exception, I'm afraid :(

If you want something more recent, there's always Phineas and Ferb, but I don't think that quite matches Animaniacs where they not only got a lot of crap past the radar but also had some parts that seemed aimed mainly at an adult audience - particularly the Runt and Rita segments.


Are you telling me they don't bump shows for the Olympics any more? I find that hard to believe - though admirable, if true.

Not so much, but that is probably due to there being more channels to broadcast on, including those dedicated to sports.


It's a delicate balance. Remember that Star Trek didn't come out of first run in the UK until 1973 - halfway through the Yank Years. Memories of the show are still very fresh, and very warm, even in the doldrums of Angela Bowie. And honestly, there are a lot of really fun story ideas that could come from a "concordant" stance: really, wouldn't the Doctor fighting Khan Noonien Singh in the Eugenics Wars be fun to see? That would never, ever, happen in canon, so the only place where it could is in fanworks.

I'm not so sure. It's not as if the canon had any shortage of would-be world dictators. There's Ramon Salemander, to pick just one example.


Later series? :confused: Someone may be getting rather ahead of himself... ;)

Well, looking forward to future sequels, spin-offs and reboots, which admittedly are probably after the end of TTL.


Cheers,
Nigel.
 
I hope that you go into detail on the John Glenn Administration, Brainbin. Would love to hear about all the policies and bills passed ITTL.
 
I have my doubt about slashers/shippers phenomenon which stem from my ignorance. But were fanfiction and fantarts so popular and widespread in seventies? I'm talking from the perspective of a person who spent his youth behind the iron courtain so every trend from the west which came to my country was delayed and dilluted. It was only in '90 and especially in '00 when we cought up with world pop culture in it's entirety (and fell straight into Harry Potter deluge). I was aware of fanzins existence but I haven't seen any until somewhere in nineties. Nobody I knew have written any stories involving characters from books or shows (and I knew quite a few fans of sf). Our young writers rather tried their hands in something genuine, even if inspired by Lem, Pohl or Strugatskys. And I come from the society so conservative, even in seventies, that the slash fiction was absolutely impossible. I know that in USA and maybe in UK it could be different (well, if it wasn't, the Rocky Horror Picture Show wouldn't be a cult object) but still... isn't this copied too verily from OTL Harry Potter fandom?
 
I have my doubt about slashers/shippers phenomenon which stem from my ignorance. But were fanfiction and fantarts so popular and widespread in seventies? I'm talking from the perspective of a person who spent his youth behind the iron courtain so every trend from the west which came to my country was delayed and dilluted. It was only in '90 and especially in '00 when we cought up with world pop culture in it's entirety (and fell straight into Harry Potter deluge). I was aware of fanzins existence but I haven't seen any until somewhere in nineties. Nobody I knew have written any stories involving characters from books or shows (and I knew quite a few fans of sf). Our young writers rather tried their hands in something genuine, even if inspired by Lem, Pohl or Strugatskys. And I come from the society so conservative, even in seventies, that the slash fiction was absolutely impossible. I know that in USA and maybe in UK it could be different (well, if it wasn't, the Rocky Horror Picture Show wouldn't be a cult object) but still... isn't this copied too verily from OTL Harry Potter fandom?

You do realize that a lot of these things HAPPENED in the original OTL Star Trek fandom, right? Right down to the K/S slashfic? These things didn't just start because of the internet--all that did is spread it a bit farther.
 
You do realize that a lot of these things HAPPENED in the original OTL Star Trek fandom, right? Right down to the K/S slashfic? These things didn't just start because of the internet--all that did is spread it a bit farther.

I made some reserach and now I'm afraid I couldn't have shown my ignorance more clearly. It's a strange feeling to be the one wondering that certain phenomena have dated from before internet era.
 
I made some reserach and now I'm afraid I couldn't have shown my ignorance more clearly. It's a strange feeling to be the one wondering that certain phenomena have dated from before internet era.

Fanfic goes back for centuries--hell, one of the great Italian Renaissance epics, Orlando Furioso, is essentially a fanfic continuation of the incomplete Orlando Innamorato, another great Italian Renaissance epic. And it got its own fanfic continuations.
 
Fanfic goes back for centuries--hell, one of the great Italian Renaissance epics, Orlando Furioso, is essentially a fanfic continuation of the incomplete Orlando Innamorato, another great Italian Renaissance epic. And it got its own fanfic continuations.

And the Aeneid can be counted as a fanfic of the Iliad. What I meant I wasn't aware that 40 years ago fanfiction was so popular among amateurs - and so... countercultural. Well I didn't realised that Mary Sue has been so old.
 
Interesting stuff! Put me in the "concordance" camp. :D
I can't say I'm at all surprised by your stance, vultan - your prior opinions on the subject helped to inform the creation of the concordant viewpoint in the first place ;)

It was certainly known by the 80s (it's generally believed that cancelling Doctor Who is the reason why Michael Grade is the only BBC director-general who wasn't subsequently knighted).
Yes, I'm familiar with that story - although I do note that she did knight the director-general who actually cancelled the show "for good" a few years later.

I know that you've gone beyond all this, and it looks like you are done, Brainbin, but I have to say that I am enjoying your TL. Reading through this part made my train trip home from Thanksgiving fly!
Thank you, and welcome aboard! I'm glad to have provided reading material for the voyage home :D

C. McKay said:
I am looking forward to seeing if Micky D will continue to be a working actor, escaping the typecasting he experienced ITOL. Just curious...will Michael Nesmith's career change as well?
He certainly won't be pigeon-holed as one of the Monkees when Rock Around the Clock ends, that's for sure.

C. McKay said:
Also, I am curious whether we will see any other performers (especially women) trying to follow in TWR's footsteps and starting production companies (or record labels).
At least one has been mentioned in subsequent updates - and remember that the role of Marcia Lucas within Lucasfilm is largely analogous to That Wacky Redhead herself at Desilu during the 1950s - in fact, Marcia plays a far more active role (as a creative partner, even if not a 50% partner) than TWR did before buying out Desi Arnaz.

C. McKay said:
But you have probably answered my questions already. Must read on!
If not, I hope that helped - and I hope you enjoy the rest of the timeline!

NCW8 said:
If you want something more recent, there's always Phineas and Ferb, but I don't think that quite matches Animaniacs where they not only got a lot of crap past the radar but also had some parts that seemed aimed mainly at an adult audience - particularly the Runt and Rita segments.
If we're talking about "aimed mainly at an adult audience", I think Minerva Mink should be the prime example :eek:

NCW8 said:
I'm not so sure. It's not as if the canon had any shortage of would-be world dictators. There's Ramon Salemander, to pick just one example.
I'm not saying that the Doctor wouldn't go up against any megalomaniacs, I'm saying that he wouldn't go up against Khan specifically.

I hope that you go into detail on the John Glenn Administration, Brainbin. Would love to hear about all the policies and bills passed ITTL.
You'll get about as much detail as you did on the policies of the Humphrey and Reagan administrations.

You do realize that a lot of these things HAPPENED in the original OTL Star Trek fandom, right? Right down to the K/S slashfic? These things didn't just start because of the internet--all that did is spread it a bit farther.
Fun fact: the first recorded K/S slashfic dates to September, 1974 (IOTL - ITTL it might be earlier still). One reason I chose to isolate the slashers somewhat from the rest of the fandom is that the slashers tended to be more insular: they watched the show for the relationship between Kirk and Spock, to the exclusion of all other factors. This attitude (putting the sacred couple above all else in the narrative) is actually quite common across fandoms (to the point that there's a term for it: "shipping goggles").

I made some research and now I'm afraid I couldn't have shown my ignorance more clearly. It's a strange feeling to be the one wondering that certain phenomena have dated from before internet era.
Isn't it? And, in fact, the term "canon", used in the modern, secular sense of reckoning what is "real" within the context of a fictional universe, dates to 1911, at which time it was first used in a paper about the Sherlock Holmes fandom written by the great scholar Ronald Knox (who, intriguingly enough, was among other things an Anglican priest). Sherlock Holmes fandom also devised the literary agent hypothesis - basically a meta-fictional application of the unreliable narrator.

Fanfic goes back for centuries--hell, one of the great Italian Renaissance epics, Orlando Furioso, is essentially a fanfic continuation of the incomplete Orlando Innamorato, another great Italian Renaissance epic. And it got its own fanfic continuations.
And rather closer to home, I often like to imagine that William Shakespeare made a career out of writing Fix Fic :D

And the Aeneid can be counted as a fanfic of the Iliad. What I meant I wasn't aware that 40 years ago fanfiction was so popular among amateurs - and so... countercultural. Well I didn't realised that Mary Sue has been so old.
There's the rub - what we call fan fiction has really only existed for as long as modern copyright laws - which is to say, for the last few centuries. Before then, people could - and did! - write derivative works with impunity. Now, of course, we have this baroque yet tenuous gentleman's agreement between the two sides...

Work proceeds apace on the next update. I hope to have it ready for all of you within the next week - and possibly sooner, if all goes well.
 
If we're talking about "aimed mainly at an adult audience", I think Minerva Mink should be the prime example :eek:

That's also true. I was thinking in particular about the Runt and Rita episode concerned with the joys and responsibilities of parenthood and also of their version of Les Miserables, which did some good pastiches of the main songs from the musical. No doubt there were some children that saw the musical, but they weren't the main target audience.


I'm not saying that the Doctor wouldn't go up against any megalomaniacs, I'm saying that he wouldn't go up against Khan specifically.

Sure, but there's not really anything stopping the Doctor going up against a very similar character. Remember that the Doctor has faced antagonists that definitely weren't Billy Bunter and in no way intended to be Bertie Bassett.


Cheers,
Nigel.
 
An excellent reference. It would be interesting to speculate what shows Star Trek might replace during the years 1971-73 ITTL.

The obvious candidate is that Star Trek ITTL might replace its own reruns. E.g. 2-Feb-72 would include a broadcast of a new episode of Star Trek instead of a rerun.

Edit: There were limits to the amount of non-British (i.e mostly American) content that could be shown on British TV in the Seventies, but no limits on how often an individual American show could be repeated. Star Trek was repeated fairly often during the Seventies, with the repeats being shown in the same sort of timeslots as the original transmissions (weekday evenings on BBC1). So it's most likely that the extra episodes of ST ITTL will be broadcast in the timeslots that were used for repeats IOTL. The one thing that won't happen is that ST will replace an OTL British show.

Mind you, as Doctor Who during the Yank Years includes some content produced by Desilu, it might be partially counted against the quota of non-British programming on the BBC. I must admit that I don't know how such arrangements were handled in the Seventies, but I can't see the Unions being happy about the post-production work being out-sourced unless some such arrangement were made.

Another question is which episodes ITTL would be considered too violent for broadcast by the BBC. As a reminder, the OTL episodes were Plato's Stepchildren, The Empath and Whom Gods Destroy (plus Miri, which was only broadcast once).

Edit: The Lords of Space and Time episode will likely be dropped from the repeats because it was partially produced in Britain and so will fall within the Equity rules limiting the number of times a programme can be repeated.


Cheers,
Nigel.
 
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We need a slight picture into:

  • Whether a fourth network will be launched in the 1980's
  • What's happening with the fourth network in the UK?
  • Who's winning Grammy's and Oscars!
 

Thande

Donor
I'm rather curious to read that, actually. "Bondage and Freedom" was my take on the "Cliché Storm" episode of Star Trek, which (to my delight and horror) turned out remarkably similar to the "formulaic action-adventure" concept which David Gerrold sketched out in The World of Star Trek (which contains a very impressive list of clichés, all of which he very sarcastically disdains as unworthy of what Star Trek should be about). Perhaps I should see if I can't find that story.
Unfortunately I can't seem to find the original story. I do remember a scene where Kirk, Spock and redshirts beam down to meet George Washington and his bodyguards immediately mistake the redshirts for redcoats and shoot them...

Thande, I am honoured and humbled, and will wear the crown with pride :cool: Would you mind if I quoted your endorsement on the wiki page?
By all means :D
 
Unfortunately I can't seem to find the original story. I do remember a scene where Kirk, Spock and redshirts beam down to meet George Washington and his bodyguards immediately mistake the redshirts for redcoats and shoot them...

Was it this one ?


Cheers,
Nigel.
 
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