CP China vs. Entente Japan
- Thread starter Timmy811
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China was in the middle of conflicts between I think the Beiyang army , and eventually the Great Chinese Empire under Yuan Shikai. Even if it doesn't have these problem would China really want to risk a war with both Japan and Russia, although depending on much resources Russia divert in a conflict it could screw them even further.
It's possible to put China in a bit of a stronger position--maybe a new reformist government takes over after the Boxer Rebellion is crushed, and reforms the army early. It's possible to have China more unified, as well. But there is really not enough time to industrialize China to any real extent with a post-1900 PoD. It will be tough to get the army into good shape, either, or to purchase enough modern weapons for them. Even with the best outcomes after 1900, it's hard to see a China that's in good enough shape to even contemplate taking on the West and Japan. China's leadership would have to be remarkably stupid to take on Russia and Japan. Both are far stronger than China, and both can ship military forces easily to the area. I suppose if they were stupid enough to get involved in the war, they might want to support Germany as the major power with the smallest concessions in China. But even a Russia that is loosing quite badly in Europe can spare enough forces to protect Manchuria and Mongolia, and quite possibly to advance towards Beijing as well. Japan, of course, is never going to be too distracted by events in Europe enough to prevent them from interfering in China. This was what Yamagata's old faction wanted anyway.
Honestly, if China suddenly declared war on the Entente, it would be such a colossally stupid move that I think people would suspect a Russian or Japanese plot.
Honestly, if China suddenly declared war on the Entente, it would be such a colossally stupid move that I think people would suspect a Russian or Japanese plot.
I thought about using that, but I couldn't think of a way to pull it off without it being obvious that is was such a plot. Things just don't work that smoothly in real life. Of course the Japanese might not care if they get found out, as long as they had some measure of plausible deniability.It's possible to put China in a bit of a stronger position--maybe a new reformist government takes over after the Boxer Rebellion is crushed, and reforms the army early. It's possible to have China more unified, as well. But there is really not enough time to industrialize China to any real extent with a post-1900 PoD. It will be tough to get the army into good shape, either, or to purchase enough modern weapons for them. Even with the best outcomes after 1900, it's hard to see a China that's in good enough shape to even contemplate taking on the West and Japan. China's leadership would have to be remarkably stupid to take on Russia and Japan. Both are far stronger than China, and both can ship military forces easily to the area. I suppose if they were stupid enough to get involved in the war, they might want to support Germany as the major power with the smallest concessions in China. But even a Russia that is loosing quite badly in Europe can spare enough forces to protect Manchuria and Mongolia, and quite possibly to advance towards Beijing as well. Japan, of course, is never going to be too distracted by events in Europe enough to prevent them from interfering in China. This was what Yamagata's old faction wanted anyway.
Honestly, if China suddenly declared war on the Entente, it would be such a colossally stupid move that I think people would suspect a Russian or Japanese plot.
It's possible to put China in a bit of a stronger position--maybe a new reformist government takes over after the Boxer Rebellion is crushed, and reforms the army early. It's possible to have China more unified, as well. But there is really not enough time to industrialize China to any real extent with a post-1900 PoD. It will be tough to get the army into good shape, either, or to purchase enough modern weapons for them. Even with the best outcomes after 1900, it's hard to see a China that's in good enough shape to even contemplate taking on the West and Japan. China's leadership would have to be remarkably stupid to take on Russia and Japan. Both are far stronger than China, and both can ship military forces easily to the area. I suppose if they were stupid enough to get involved in the war, they might want to support Germany as the major power with the smallest concessions in China. But even a Russia that is loosing quite badly in Europe can spare enough forces to protect Manchuria and Mongolia, and quite possibly to advance towards Beijing as well. Japan, of course, is never going to be too distracted by events in Europe enough to prevent them from interfering in China. This was what Yamagata's old faction wanted anyway.
Honestly, if China suddenly declared war on the Entente, it would be such a colossally stupid move that I think people would suspect a Russian or Japanese plot.
Generally agree. post 1900 is too late.
Say Qing Dynasty could do some reform after Taiping/Second Opium War. Then Qing Dynasty would survive till WWI. Bonus they would loose First Sino-Japanese War and lost. Also some conflict with Russia and concede Manchuria to Russia (as OTL after Boxer rebellion).
Starting 1900, China would industrialize with the help of Germany, then joins CP. It is logical since during Second Opium War, Qing dynasty was humiliated and did concession to Britian, French and Russia.