Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

[Glen]

The First Malthusian International Congress was held in Amsterdam in 1921. Hosted by the Dutch government, it had representatives from all over the world, including such highly populated states as the United Kingdom, Belgique, German Empire, Kingdom of Italy, the Roman Republic, Dominion of India, Siam, Spanish Indochina, the United States of China, Manchuria, Korea, and Japan. While there were many differing opinions on what measures to take to limit population growth (and the first Congress agreed that initial measures should be fit to the unique cultural milieu of the country in question), they did all agree to mutual support of Malthusian Clubs and Parties throughout the world and to meet again in future.

The Belgique contingent to the Malthusian International Congress

 

[FleetMac]

While I can understand the motivations of the Malthusians to an extent, something about them just gives me the creeps (possibly due to my impression of their philosophy as quasi-eugenicist in outlook).

Still, nice set of updates! And of course, the Ottomans were just bound to end up in the petroleum game, I see

 

[IchBinDieKaiser]

So right now we have Malthusians acting alot like OTL Progressives. Slowly implementing policies in hopes of changing the culture and society. However with an ideology like this it seems like it is only a matter of time before some Malthusian Party in some country decides to take the leap into more forceful actions such as forced sterilization and what not. This timeline's first world war was a war against Korsgardism. Is it possible that the next world war, if one is to occur, will be a war against Malthusians?

 

[Falastur]

Yeah, it's interesting. Whereas in OTL the extreme right/left-wing philosophies created a strong platform for those who had not fallen to those philosophies to advocate the strength and fairness of the political centre, in this world instead it appears that the political centre is just a temporary resting ground for countries as they queue up for their turn to be politically radical. Not that this is a bad thing at all, or even necessarily that implausible, or even unlikely. It does give the casual reader such as myself a bit of an identity crisis, however, as I seek to try to work out which country I actually associate with - especially if the DSA goes Malthusian in the future.

 

[Glen]

While I can understand the motivations of the Malthusians to an extent,

Yes, I suppose one could.

something about them just gives me the creeps (possibly due to my impression of their philosophy as quasi-eugenicist in outlook).

Oh, I suppose that is a possible view of it as well.

Still, nice set of updates!

Thank you.

And of course, the Ottomans were just bound to end up in the petroleum game, I see

I would think so. Imagine the possibilities....

 

[Glen]

So right now we have Malthusians acting alot like OTL Progressives.

One could make that parallel, yes.

Slowly implementing policies in hopes of changing the culture and society.

I suppose...

However with an ideology like this it seems like it is only a matter of time before some Malthusian Party in some country decides to take the leap into more forceful actions such as forced sterilization and what not.

Ah yes, the slippery slope....

This timeline's first world war was a war against Korsgardism. Is it possible that the next world war, if one is to occur, will be a war against Malthusians?

What a thought! I'll remember you said that.

 

[Glen]

Yeah, it's interesting.

Indeed.

Whereas in OTL the extreme right/left-wing philosophies created a strong platform for those who had not fallen to those philosophies to advocate the strength and fairness of the political centre, in this world instead it appears that the political centre is just a temporary resting ground for countries as they queue up for their turn to be politically radical.

What makes you say that?

Not that this is a bad thing at all, or even necessarily that implausible, or even unlikely.

Indeed, though I'd still like to see what makes you think that the center is transitory.

It does give the casual reader such as myself a bit of an identity crisis, however, as I seek to try to work out which country I actually associate with - especially if the DSA goes Malthusian in the future.

I suppose one might think that, but remember that this is a history of centuries. Are you telling me that there is some nation who's prevailing politics you've agreed with over a period of over a hundred years!

 

[W.W.A.F.T.]

I have something completely different to discuss. I found a pile of ken burns documentaries on netflix, and now I can't stop thinking about prohibition. naturally this leads me to wondering if there is a living temperance movement in TTL USA? given this america's political culture, I find it somewhat unlikely that legislated prohibition would get off the ground, but there could still be space for temperance societies.

sorry to veer off from your lovely discussion of political radicalism and the next war.

 

[Glen]

I have something completely different to discuss. I found a pile of ken burns documentaries on netflix, and now I can't stop thinking about prohibition. naturally this leads me to wondering if there is a living temperance movement in TTL USA? given this america's political culture, I find it somewhat unlikely that legislated prohibition would get off the ground, but there could still be space for temperance societies.

sorry to veer off from your lovely discussion of political radicalism and the next war.

I would say that there are prohibition movements but they are smaller and not politically powerful at this time. In the US the Dems would be dead set against it, at least on a federal level.

 

[W.W.A.F.T.]

Ah, thank you.

 

[Glen]

Ah, thank you.

You are quite welcome!

 

[Sovereign12]

This timeline's first world war was a war against Korsgardism. Is it possible that the next world war, if one is to occur, will be a war against Malthusians?

What a thought! I'll remember you said that.

This makes me wonder how nations that embrace Malthusian thought will handle their military. If country A is Malthusian and goes to war with country B who is not, the military strength just from a self-enforced manpower decrease would make me think what military country A has would be highly trained. Of course, a lot of people/nations won't think that way and be in trouble if conflicts do arise.

 

[Glen]

This makes me wonder how nations that embrace Malthusian thought will handle their military. If country A is Malthusian and goes to war with country B who is not, the military strength just from a self-enforced manpower decrease would make me think what military country A has would be highly trained. Of course, a lot of people/nations won't think that way and be in trouble if conflicts do arise.

Well, that is a very good point, and we'll see how that works out!

 

[IchBinDieKaiser]

This makes me wonder how nations that embrace Malthusian thought will handle their military. If country A is Malthusian and goes to war with country B who is not, the military strength just from a self-enforced manpower decrease would make me think what military country A has would be highly trained. Of course, a lot of people/nations won't think that way and be in trouble if conflicts do arise.

I wonder how the Germans and Prusso-Polish are looking at Malthusians. If they embraced it it would not be a big step to adopt such a military policy, given their histories. However it seems that it is more liberal countries adopting Malthusian policies, so I don't think the Germans, Prusso-Polish, or Russians are going to adopt Malthusian ideas. I could possibly see France going Malthusian.

 

[Glen]

I wonder how the Germans and Prusso-Polish are looking at Malthusians.

A very good question. We'll see over the goodness of time.

If they embraced it it would not be a big step to adopt such a military policy, given their histories.

A fair point.

However it seems that it is more liberal countries adopting Malthusian policies,

It may seem thus...

so I don't think the Germans, Prusso-Polish, or Russians are going to adopt Malthusian ideas. I could possibly see France going Malthusian.

The Germans are actually quite liberal (though a bit more armed liberalism, given their Eastern neighbors). France, who can say?

 

[Glen]

Tsar Alexander III and his Tsarina​

In 1924, Russia emerged from her generation long isolation from world affairs after the death of the aged autocrat, Tsar Nicholas, who some called "The Last Korsgaardian". His son ascended to the Tsardom as Tsar Alexander III. After his coronation, Alexander III embarked on a new policy of openess with the world. His first step as a world leader was to conclude a long delayed peace treaty with the Western World, officially ending the final armed hostility of the Global War. Tsar Alexander III fostered trade, his main goal, with both the East and the West, and patronized several modernization schemes to bring the Russian Empire up to modern standards. His first few years as Tsar were successful in this regard, starting with Russia trading on her vast natural resources, but soon it would begin to produce more processed products for the market. Russian distilleries entered a spirited competition with Prussian-Polish and Scandinavian firms in the Vodka market, for example.

 

[Cylon_Number_14]

I was concerned Russia's next Tsar would be more along the lines of Kim Jong Il taking over from his father. Mother Russia as often as not doesn't get any lucky breaks OTL or in ATLs. May they conquer the world... of hard liquor!

 

[Remella]

Hey Glen, As my first post, I come to compliment you on your work and I have read the 229 pages of the timeline plus I enjoyed the timeline. I have some questions to ask if you mind.

Were there any Banana Wars in Latin America?

What does Hawaii achieve in this timeline?

and finally

Is Lenin in this timeline? If so, does he have a major presence in history?

 

[Glen]

I was concerned Russia's next Tsar would be more along the lines of Kim Jong Il taking over from his father. Mother Russia as often as not doesn't get any lucky breaks OTL or in ATLs.

Well, the DSA prides itself on not being entirely predictable.

May they conquer the world... of hard liquor!

And then some!

 

[Glen]

Hey Glen, As my first post, I come to compliment you on your work and I have read the 229 pages of the timeline plus I enjoyed the timeline. I have some questions to ask if you mind.

Great to have you aboard!

Were there any Banana Wars in Latin America?

Not as such, no, since Central America is part of Mexico - Mexico has had its share of Wars, however, but not from American business interests.

What does Hawaii achieve in this timeline?

A great Luau? Seriously, though, I am not entirely clear what you are asking. Are you speaking of the political fate of Hawaii?

and finally

Is Lenin in this timeline? If so, does he have a major presence in history?

With a POD in the 1760s I can confidently state that Lenin is not in the timeline, and in fact has no ATL analogue in the DSA timeline as far as I can tell.