Regnum Russiam et Lithuaniae or Vitautas won in the battle of the Vorskla river

Thread on ФАИ

In late 1380s the relationship between Tokhtamysh, Khan of the Golden Horde, and his former master, Timur, was growing tense. In 1395, after losing the Tokhtamysh–Timur war, Tokhtamysh was dethroned by the party of Khan Temur Qutlugh and Emir Edigu, supported by Timur. Tokhtamysh escaped to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and asked Vytautas for assistance in retaking the Horde in exchange for surrendering his suzerainty over Ruthenian lands. This development was in harmony with Vytautas' ambitions to become ruler of all Ruthenian lands. A surviving iarlyk shows that Tokhtamysh had asked for Polish–Lithuanian assistance previously in 1393.

Vytautas gathered a large army which included Lithuanians, Ruthenians, Poles, Moldavians, and Wallachians. To enlist support from the Teutonic Knights, Vytautas signed the Treaty of Salynas, surrendering Samogitia to the Knights. Vytautas's son-in-law, Vasily I of Moscow, formally a Tatar vassal, did not join the coalition. The joint forces organized three expeditions into Tatar territories, in 1397, 1398, and 1399. The first expedition reached the Black Sea and Crimea. Vytautas took several thousand captives without much opposition. Half of these captives were settled near Trakai and awarded privileges to practice their faith. Communities of their descendants, Lipka Tatars and Crimean Karaites (Karaims), survive to this day.
In 1398, the army of Vytautas moved from the Dnieper River and attacked northern Crimea, reaching as far east as the River Don. In order to strengthen his position, Vytautas built a castle at the mouth of Dnieper. Inspired by their successes, Vytautas declared a "Crusade against the Tatars" and in May 1399 received blessing from Pope Boniface IX. The papal blessing for the crusade was an important political achievement for Lithuania, a country converted to Christianity only in 1387 and the subject of a hundred-year crusade. The campaign was organized from Kiev. In 1399, the army of Vytautas once again moved against the Horde along the Dnieper River. On August 5, his army met the Tatars at the Vorskla River just north of Poltava.

Once the two armies met, Temur Qutlugh proposed a three-day ceasefire to allow both sides to prepare their forces. But Vytautas but knew it was a trick to win time while Edigu's reinforcements arrived. He disagreed to a ceasefire and defeated the Tatars in the two battles. Vytautas ceased to participate in the war thereafter. The frontline between Edigu and Tokhtamysh was on the Don River up to 1405.

I will post the updated as translation

PS I ask you to speak grammatical and lexical errors in the text, because I badly know English
 
Thread on ФАИ

In late 1380s the relationship between Tokhtamysh, Khan of the Golden Horde, and his former master, Timur, was growing tense. In 1395, after losing the Tokhtamysh–Timur war, Tokhtamysh was dethroned by the party of Khan Temur Qutlugh and Emir Edigu, supported by Timur. Tokhtamysh escaped to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and asked Vytautas for assistance in retaking the Horde in exchange for surrendering his suzerainty over Ruthenian lands. This development was in harmony with Vytautas' ambitions to become ruler of all Ruthenian lands. A surviving iarlyk shows that Tokhtamysh had asked for Polish–Lithuanian assistance previously in 1393.

Vytautas gathered a large army which included Lithuanians, Ruthenians, Poles, Moldavians, and Wallachians. To enlist support from the Teutonic Knights, Vytautas signed the Treaty of Salynas, surrendering Samogitia to the Knights. Vytautas's son-in-law, Vasily I of Moscow, formally a Tatar vassal, did not join the coalition. The joint forces organized three expeditions into Tatar territories, in 1397, 1398, and 1399. The first expedition reached the Black Sea and Crimea. Vytautas took several thousand captives without much opposition. Half of these captives were settled near Trakai and awarded privileges to practice their faith. Communities of their descendants, Lipka Tatars and Crimean Karaites (Karaims), survive to this day.
In 1398, the army of Vytautas moved from the Dnieper River and attacked northern Crimea, reaching as far east as the River Don. In order to strengthen his position, Vytautas built a castle at the mouth of Dnieper. Inspired by their successes, Vytautas declared a "Crusade against the Tatars" and in May 1399 received blessing from Pope Boniface IX. The papal blessing for the crusade was an important political achievement for Lithuania, a country converted to Christianity only in 1387 and the subject of a hundred-year crusade. The campaign was organized from Kiev. In 1399, the army of Vytautas once again moved against the Horde along the Dnieper River. On August 5, his army met the Tatars at the Vorskla River just north of Poltava.

Once the two armies met, Temur Qutlugh proposed a three-day ceasefire to allow both sides to prepare their forces. But Vytautas but knew it was a trick to win time while Edigu's reinforcements arrived. He disagreed to a ceasefire and defeated the Tatars in the two battles. Vytautas ceased to participate in the war thereafter. The frontline between Edigu and Tokhtamysh was on the Don River up to 1405.

I will post the updated as translation

PS I ask you to speak grammatical and lexical errors in the text, because I badly know English
Vladko, I think you should have Louis of Hungary to die earlier or die childless preventing the birth of Jadwiga and Mary thus preventing a possible marriage of a daughter of Louis of Hungary and Jogaila making the plans of Wladyslaw II of Opole and Siemowit IV of completely reuniting the Polish lands(Silesia, Mazovia, Kuyavia, Greater Poland and Lesser Poland) materialize.
 
Map on 1399 year (with Russian signs)

2831653.png
 
Vladko, I think you should have Louis of Hungary to die earlier or die childless preventing the birth of Jadwiga and Mary thus preventing a possible marriage of a daughter of Louis of Hungary and Jogaila making the plans of Wladyslaw II of Opole and Siemowit IV of completely reuniting the Polish lands(Silesia, Mazovia, Kuyavia, Greater Poland and Lesser Poland) materialize.

I prefer to use as PoD battle of Vorskla, because it is the latest date for the unification of Russia around Lithuania (and I made timeline on ФАИ up to 1470s) ;)
 
Actually, Vladek, the Piast rulers of Mazovia and Silesia do view the Jagellonians as usurpers, this was one of the reason why the Silesia was never returned to Poland even if it is Polish, even if there were plans to return it during the time of Jogaila, you could use that against Jogaila if you want to modify the TL.

Poland in this timeline will be a lot of suffering but on the Piasts (Mazovian) I have plans
 
Vytautas stepped up its fight against his cousin after the victory of the Vorskla River. Back in the 1390's he was negotiating an alliance with the Order against Poland. Victory at Vorskla allowed him to make his claim to full independence from Krakow. February 19, 1401 the papal legate laid on the head of Vytautas, who was crowned as Alexander I, the crown of the Kingdom of Lithuania and Russia (Latin Regnum Lithuaniae et Russiam). The coronation came many distinguished guests such as the Grand Prince of Moscow Vasily, Grand Master of the Teutonic Order Konrad von Jungingen and Ordensmarschall Werner von Tettingen. Lithuania and the Teutonic Order concluded a military alliance directed against Poland. Moldova (Moldovan voivode Ștefan Mușat wasn’t killed in the Battle of the Vorskla River) and Hungary also joined this coalition.
 

Deleted member 14881

Vytautas stepped up its fight against his cousin after the victory of the Vorskla River. Back in the 1390's he was negotiating an alliance with the Order against Poland. Victory at Vorskla allowed him to make his claim to full independence from Krakow. February 19, 1401 the papal legate laid on the head of Vytautas, who was crowned as Alexander I, the crown of the Kingdom of Lithuania and Russia (Latin Regnum Lithuaniae et Russiam). The coronation came many distinguished guests such as the Grand Prince of Moscow Vasily, Grand Master of the Teutonic Order Konrad von Jungingen and Ordensmarschall Werner von Tettingen. Lithuania and the Teutonic Order concluded a military alliance directed against Poland. Moldova (Moldovan voivode Ștefan Mușat wasn’t killed in the Battle of the Vorskla River) and Hungary also joined this coalition.

Question Why would the Teutonics ally with an Orthodox Lithuania?
 
I love the map, by the way. It took me personally about three months to get that level of detail on homemade maps, except this is better.

Anyway, curious as to how it will turn out. Hopefully sans Republic of Kamchatka as per your Russian thread ;)
 
Actually, Vladek, the Piast rulers of Mazovia and Silesia do view the Jagellonians as usurpers.

Since when? Nope, you got it completely wrong.

this was one of the reason why the Silesia was never returned to Poland even if it is Polish

Nope again. It wasn't returned because Bohemian kings, who were Silesian overlords, didn't want part with Silesia. Attitudes of silesian Piast didn't matter.
 
Since when? Nope, you got it completely wrong.
Yeah, I was saying that because I think the Mazovian Piasts kinda used to think that way, that they were the rightful kings of Poland before Siemowit V withdrawn his bid to the Polish throne, the Lower Silesian Piasts till the end still tried to bid to the Polish throne despite always losing.

Nope again. It wasn't returned because Bohemian kings, who were Silesian overlords, didn't want part with Silesia. Attitudes of silesian Piast didn't matter.

Also in 1404, Władysław held talks at Vratislav with Wenceslaus IV of Bohemia, who offered to return Silesia to Poland if Władysław supported him in his power struggle within the Holy Roman Empire.[29] Władysław turned the deal down with the agreement of both Polish and Silesian nobles, unwilling to burden himself with new military commitments in the west.[30]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jogaila

Wenceslaus IV attempted to return Silesia to Poland in exchange of a pact but the Silesian dukes, the nobles of Silesia and Poland and Jogaila did not agree to that, so the ATL scenario that could return Silesia to Poland is having Siemowit IV or Wladyslaw Opolczyk rule Poland after Casimir III or Louis I of Hungary.

Habsburgs actually want Silesia, Galicia and Krakow, they want more Polish subjects to Balance their Czech, Magyar and German subjects.
 
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I love the map, by the way. It took me personally about three months to get that level of detail on homemade maps, except this is better.

Anyway, curious as to how it will turn out. Hopefully sans Republic of Kamchatka as per your Russian thread ;)

I use I created PDN map

Republic of Kamchatka is a joke for a colleague ВИП
 
Wenceslaus IV attempted to return Silesia to Poland in exchange of a pact but the Silesian dukes, the nobles of Silesia and Poland and Jogaila did not agree to that.

Okay, had to check around, but it seems while basically right you simplified things a bit - Silesia was to be returned on condition of militarily supporting Vaclav against his brother Sigismundus. But it would mean war on two fronts, as there was continuing Teutonian-Lithuanian fighting at the time.
 
Okay, had to check around, but it seems while basically right you simplified things a bit - Silesia was to be returned on condition of militarily supporting Vaclav against his brother Sigismundus. But it would mean war on two fronts, as there was continuing Teutonian-Lithuanian fighting at the time.

Without the personal union, Silesia would had been returned but that would also mean Poland would be allied with Bohemia, we have three obvious King candidates if we don't want the personal union Wladyslaw Opolczyk, Siemowit IV or Casimir IV of Pomerania, two of those are Piasts and one is from the Gryfita line.

@Vladislav, you could use Wladyslaw Opolczyk and Siemowit IV in your TL.
 
Without the personal union, Silesia would had been returned but that would also mean Poland would be allied with Bohemia, we have three obvious King candidates if we don't want the personal union Wladyslaw Opolczyk, Siemowit IV or Casimir IV of Pomerania, two of those are Piasts and one is from the Gryfita line.

@Vladislav, you could use Wladyslaw Opolczyk and Siemowit IV in your TL.
Vytautas does not want a strong Poland or Polish-Bohemian Union. He wants a weak fragmented Poland
 
Vytautas does not want a strong Poland or Polish-Bohemian Union. He wants a weak fragmented Poland
Perhaps we could have Poland partitioned between Siemowit IV and Wladyslaw Opolczyk, Wladyslaw Opolczyk and the teutons planned to partition Poland in OTL perhaps we could have Siemowit IV join that plan.

Aside from being fragmented Poland might suffer in the Hussite revolts and sieges and Sigismund of Luxembourg is the defacto heir of Casimir III so Poland might be screwed in the long run...perhaps more parts of it would get absobed by Bohemia or Rus-Lithuania,teutons and Bohemia might partition Poland in the end.
 
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Perhaps we could have Poland partitioned between Siemowit IV and Wladyslaw Opolczyk, Wladyslaw Opolczyk and the teutons planned to partition Poland in OTL perhaps we could have Siemowit IV join that plan.

Aside from being fragmented Poland might suffer in the Hussite revolts and sieges and Sigismund of Luxembourg is the defacto heir of Casimir III so Poland might be screwed in the long run...perhaps more parts of it would get absobed by Bohemia or Rus-Lithuania,teutons and Bohemia might partition Poland in the end.

You did the impossible. You forced me to remake this timeline from the beginning!
 
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