Look to the West: Thread III, Volume IV (Tottenham Nil)!

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Amazing

I have been following this for the last four months or so and have found it an utterly amazing read.
One thing that i have found difficult though is mapping out everything in my head, is there any collection of maps for this TL? If so, Where?
Thank you before hand, and once again, amazing TL.
 

Thande

Donor
Thanks for the kind words everyone! I meant to qualify Ferdinand VII's attitude with a note to how this is kind of hypocritical (and rather unobservant of the trends taking place in Europe of late) but forgot--this is what happens when you try and do a general update across most of Europe all at once, stuff slips through the net.

I have been following this for the last four months or so and have found it an utterly amazing read.
One thing that i have found difficult though is mapping out everything in my head, is there any collection of maps for this TL? If so, Where?
Thank you before hand, and once again, amazing TL.

I used to wonder why TLs like Decades of Darkness went for ages without map updates until I wrote a TL of this scale myself--it's because you're constantly revising stuff so you're wary about linking to older maps in case you have to retcon things. Anyway, for here and now, here is a map of Europe in 1840, some way into the Democratic Experiment period described here.
 
Ferdinand VII seems just as much a jackass as his OTL counterpart. Why would he call the nation one of kneelers whilst ignoring requests to give elected Cortes?

It makes no sense...

Presumeably he thinks those calling for elected Cortes are a small and quite unrepresentative minority...and he may be right when it comes to the average peasant, the trouble being that they are most likely an influential minority.

Bruce
 
I used to wonder why TLs like Decades of Darkness went for ages without map updates until I wrote a TL of this scale myself--it's because you're constantly revising stuff so you're wary about linking to older maps in case you have to retcon things. Anyway, for here and now, here is a map of Europe in 1840, some way into the Democratic Experiment period described here.

Cool stuff, Thande. I notice the mention of relief for the Irish famine: was the death toll and emigration less than OTL? And what exactly is the relationship between Britain and former British North America at this point?

Bruce
 
Great update! You've turned into quite the writing machine lately, which is great for us:D. Ferdinand VII is a cool king, and his comment of 'a continent of kneelers' was funny. But Spain does deserve a monarch who cares about it; see the beginning for the split between New Spain and Old Spain right here, in addition to some democratic reforms. Though I hope we don't see TTL's version of the Carlist Wars. Also, did the Portuguese monarchy feel the same way after returning from Brazil in OTL?
 

Thande

Donor
Cool stuff, Thande. I notice the mention of relief for the Irish famine: was the death toll and emigration less than OTL? And what exactly is the relationship between Britain and former British North America at this point?

Bruce
See Part #98. The Irish potato famine happened much earlier in TTL and was not as devastating, though a smaller wave of emigration still happened. As for the relationship between Great Britain and the ENA, well, that's still evolving, but since the Whig government got Frederick II to sign the Proclamation of Independence in 1828, there is now no constitutional connection between the two besides a shared monarchy and unofficial cultural stuff. This was really just making an already de facto situation de jure.

Also, did the Portuguese monarchy feel the same way after returning from Brazil in OTL?

I don't think so, mostly because they weren't stuck there for anything like as long as the Spanish were in TTL. In any case I suspect anything like that was overshadowed by the broader ideological conflict of the Portuguese Liberal Wars in OTL.
 
Fascinating update, and very well written.

Wild speculation time!

We hear a little about a Concordat, presumably a political alliance between Burdenist elements (or the government?) of Carolina and the Cherokee Empire (and potentially other Indian states allied with the Cherokee). Maybe this is what the Great American War will be: not simply a civil war between pro and anti-slavery elements in the ENA, but an alliance between the Superior Republic, Carolina, and various native states against the northern Confederations and the Empire of New Spain. The core of such a war would seem to be Burdenist in nature, with the riot in Spain being a catalyst for a new perspective within that ideology that Spaniards (or Europeans?) are racially inclined towards imperialism and authoritarianism, and must be driven out of the Americas. At some point, the UPSA and its Andean Allies will claim a similar perspective and enter against New Spain.

Now, whether the Meridians are on the winning or the losing side, such a war could definitely yield an adoption of Societist ideals, or at the very least provide a fertile political landscape rife with convergent mindsets. If the UPSA wins, it may take steps towards de-emphasizing national identity as a means to consolidate territorial gains. If it wins, but has a falling-out with the "Burdenist Alliance" in the process, or soon afterwards, a disillusionment with nationalist ideas may sweep the political spectrum.

The most interesting scenario is if the Meridians are on the losing side of this hypothesized Great American War. Considering the ENA's naval capabilities, the UPSA may suffer severe blockades and sanctions, which will encourage the most powerful elements of society (political elite, landowners, plutocrats, aristocracy among the indigenous nations) to take political control and extend influence. This trend may prove to be universal, across the lines of ancestry and religion (example: British aristocrats using family capital to start a new life in the region after being driven out of their traditional land), and we see proto-Societist ideas develop as a political justification for the aristocratic rule.

Also possible is that the UPSA's society effectively crumbles either from war stress or a complete defeat (I'm drawing a parallel to OTL's War of the Triple Alliance, where Paraguay basically had to start from scratch but continued as a nation). Adventurous aristocrats fleeing liberal Europe find a place here, as do political elements of the ENS. Similar to the first "UPSA loses" scenario, except that these aristocratic elements were never members of the same nation before ruling it together.
 
I suppose I haven't had the opportunity to read mid-Cold War histories written by heavily partisan authors. So, then, a question to our more chronologically successful posters:

Were they all really that obnoxious?
 
It seems like, what with the Highwaymen, Great Britain will have its own "mid 19th century romantic chaotic period" similar to the Wild West in the Americas. Obviously it doesn't compare, with the American west being a very different situation (it was order slowly and violently coming to a wild land rather than wildness coming to a land long filled with peace and order), but I wonder what this will do to British culture all the same, particular popular culture.
 
It seems like, what with the Highwaymen, Great Britain will have its own "mid 19th century romantic chaotic period" similar to the Wild West in the Americas. Obviously it doesn't compare, with the American west being a very different situation (it was order slowly and violently coming to a wild land rather than wildness coming to a land long filled with peace and order), but I wonder what this will do to British culture all the same, particular popular culture.

Maybe in terms of mythology. The 'Wild West' was more like a messy and loosely controlled campaign of ethnic cleansing.
 
Maybe in terms of mythology. The 'Wild West' was more like a messy and loosely controlled campaign of ethnic cleansing.

Yes, hence my use of the term "violently." "Order" in this sense not meaning objective order, but "government control."
 
Well the Federalist Backlash doesn't sound that bad, there are a lot worse ways a "Democratic Experiment" could end, that term was making me nervous...
 
Yes, hence my use of the term "violently." "Order" in this sense not meaning objective order, but "government control."

I get'cha. TTL's 'wild west' is going to be interesting IMO. There's a lot more 'west' when you factor in Rupert's Land is also part of the ENA's frontier and all the Indigenous politics from Tortelianism and what came out of the Superior War, to the empire itself being more like a combo of Canada and the US. Makes me wonder what kind of national mythos will arise out of it. Doubt it will have the same black and white connotations of OTL's West, maybe more like Australia. Hard to say at this point however.
 
Thanks for the kind words everyone! I meant to qualify Ferdinand VII's attitude with a note to how this is kind of hypocritical (and rather unobservant of the trends taking place in Europe of late) but forgot--this is what happens when you try and do a general update across most of Europe all at once, stuff slips through the net.



I used to wonder why TLs like Decades of Darkness went for ages without map updates until I wrote a TL of this scale myself--it's because you're constantly revising stuff so you're wary about linking to older maps in case you have to retcon things. Anyway, for here and now, here is a map of Europe in 1840, some way into the Democratic Experiment period described here.

Thank You Very Much :D
 
It seems like, what with the Highwaymen, Great Britain will have its own "mid 19th century romantic chaotic period" similar to the Wild West in the Americas. Obviously it doesn't compare, with the American west being a very different situation (it was order slowly and violently coming to a wild land rather than wildness coming to a land long filled with peace and order), but I wonder what this will do to British culture all the same, particular popular culture.
I'd have thought the gangsterism of Prohibition-era Chicago would be more the ticket.
 
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