TL-191: After the End

ZincOxide

Umbric Man said:
I come back with some genuine questions:

1. How anglicized in terms of language is Cuba, the former Mexican northwest, and the former French West Indies?

2. Related to the above question - how much of a 'common American' culture has settled in? Language, sure, but also law, ethnicity (WASPs compared to ethnic whites, blacks, hispanics and Pacific Islanders, I suppose), food, music, cultural ways, etc. I suspect *Canada has Americanized rather nicely if we've gotten President Reynolds in office, and I can see the Pacific states as OTL Hawaii writ large - but what of the Caribbean and especially CSA?
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I think Caribbean culture would be more of a fusion with TTL's American culture than OTL, but presumably with many Spanish-speaking people (as well as creole French in Haiti) still present, especially given the states Chihuahua, Sonora and Baja California.
 
Turquoise Blue

Turquoise Blue

ZincOxide said:
I think Caribbean culture would be more of a fusion with TTL's American culture than OTL, but presumably with many Spanish-speaking people (as well as creole French in Haiti) still present, especially given the states Chihuahua, Sonora and Baja California.
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Yeah. And I think Canada still has an distinct identity, but its tidily Americanized, so that everybody there identifies as Canadian-American.

After all, you can't easily extinguish a long history of independence in a century. After all, its two centuries of independence against one of occupation and statehood.
 
Turquoise Blue

Turquoise Blue

OK... With some help from David, I have made a 1992 election map. This is not canon until he says it is. I made some guesses and had to switch some states around...

1992
qKEFsN7.png

Thurston DeFrancis (D-CA)/Unknown (D-??): 359 EV
Alfred Turnbull (S-ON)/Unknown (S-??): 197 EV
Patrick Gutierrez (R-NM)/Unknown (R-??): 55 EV

A strong electoral majority but a bare popular mandate for the Democrats...
 
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Petike

Petike

Now I've finally realized how bizarre the TL-191 US looks by the end of the 20th century on maps. :eek: :) :cool:

BTW, Gwen, I'll add your electoral maps to the TL's pages.
 

jycee

Petike said:
Now I've finally realized how bizarre the TL-191 US looks by the end of the 20th century on maps. :eek: :) :cool:
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The map of the interwar period CSA is even more bizzare in my opinion. The TL map pages has a few of them and the shape of the whole thing is ridiculous.
 

brunohusker

David bar Elias said:
The History Channel's analogue from TTL (at least in the United States) is called the History Network. Funded both by the Department of Education and the Department of Technology, the History Network is well-regarded for its award-winning programs and specials that span across many different events, nations, and time periods.

On the other hand, the Freedom Party has inspired a lot of fictional villains in TTL, in the worlds of cinema, literature and (later), video games.
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So what culture would this inspire? Would we maybe have movies about Confederate Generals like we had with some German Generals in OTL (Movies like The Desert Fox in OTL, I've just started reading the TL 191 series so I wouldn't know who the equivalent of Rommel would be so some help might be in order since i've been scanning the Turtledove Wiki, and wikipedia for timeline 191 as well as this thread). Could we possibly see films by Steven Speilberg (if he existed, and lived through the CSA invasion of Ohio where he was born) make films about the black holocaust (like OTL's Schindler's List), or a film about finding a lost Iowa soldier in CSA territory)? Maybe too obvious, though I do think it would be cool to have a character like OTL's Indiana Jones fighting off CSA troops. Maybe TTL's Indy (i can't think of a good name for him) could look for the Fountain of Youth in Florida, or Excalibur in Britain and have to fight off CSA agents.

One last thing, could you portray CSA soldiers humorously or as buffoons. For example, would their be a viral video of JAke Featherston unintelligibly ranting in a Southern Drawl that people would find funny :) or would that be seen as too lighthearded to portray the CSA that way?
 

David bar Elias

GeorgeUK said:
What with the fact that many of the railway enthusiasts who travelled to Ireland to photograph the T&D (and similar routes) were British, I imagine that there are very few records of Ireland's narrow gauge railways ITTL.
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I'm afraid that is likely the case in TTL.

Which brings me to wonder as to what Rail Transport is like ITTL. Does Amtrak exist?
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The equivalent to Amtrak in TTL is USTrak: the name given to the modernized cross-country rail network constructed during the 1950s alongside the new Inter-State on the part of the Dewey and Truman Administrations.

Did the Beeching Axe ever fall in Britain?
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The equivalent of the Beeching Axe in TTL occurred during the 1950s.

Which nation(s) built the fastest train?
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As of 2000, Austria-Hungary and Germany have the fastest trains, although the Americans, Bharatis, British, Brazilians, Chinese, French Italians, and Russians have been catching up.

jycee said:
Some things like the space chase seem to be happening about a decade behind OTL, but this can be due to the fact that wars have prevented governments from being able to pot resources into it. However if you look at the "combine technology" parts of the updates (combine being computing in OTL) it seems to also be lagging a bit behind OTL. The internet (combonet here) did not appear till the 90s and a single computer still dominates the market. So there is no proliferation. I reckon that the fact that TTL's governments having more control of the economy and development have perhaps slowed down, not the development of tech, but the adoption of it by the population.
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This is a generally accurate assessment.

Turquoise Blue said:
Alright, David... Is your world more advanced than ours circa 2000?
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It depends on the area. If the world is behind our world in terms of certain technologies, there are more centers of learning and research in TTL than in OTL.

Umbric Man said:
I come back with some genuine questions:

1. How anglicized in terms of language is Cuba, the former Mexican northwest, and the former French West Indies?
Click to expand...

English is the most widely spoken language in all three areas.

Cuba is actually unique in that its state education system is bilingual. One of the early acts of goodwill by the US authorities on the island after the Second Great War was to allow for the allowing of schools to teach Spanish.

I should mention that Baja California, Chihuahua, Cuba, and Sonora (along with California, Nevada, and New Mexico) are the most popular destinations for retirees in the United States as of 2000.

2. Related to the above question - how much of a 'common American' culture has settled in? Language, sure, but also law, ethnicity (WASPs compared to ethnic whites, blacks, hispanics and Pacific Islanders, I suppose), food, music, cultural ways, etc. I suspect *Canada has Americanized rather nicely if we've gotten President Reynolds in office, and I can see the Pacific states as OTL Hawaii writ large - but what of the Caribbean and especially CSA?
Click to expand...

In many ways the United States in TTL has a similar common culture that our world's USA does. On the other hand, there are key differences as well; for example, any kind of sectional politics is considered even more taboo than in our world.

I should perhaps have waited till the end of the 2000s to ask these so we have an extra ten years' worth to see how demographics plays out, unless you don't mind spoiling such statistics slightly ahead of time. :p
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I will try to offer a clearer picture of US society as of 2009, when the ATL ends.

Mac Gregor said:
Just voted for TL-191: After the End. Keep up the good work.
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Thank you! I'm glad it warranted your support.

ZincOxide said:
I think Caribbean culture would be more of a fusion with TTL's American culture than OTL, but presumably with many Spanish-speaking people (as well as creole French in Haiti) still present, especially given the states Chihuahua, Sonora and Baja California.
Click to expand...

That generally is the case in TTL.

Ze Kaiser said:
Seconded. Motion carried. :D
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Thanks!

Turquoise Blue said:
By the way, David. I'm interested in how Election Day works with such far-flung states.
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Suffice to say, US election laws in TTL (as of 2000) allow for early voting; ultimately, the Pacific states are the last to be called on Election Night.

brunohusker said:
So what culture would this inspire? Would we maybe have movies about Confederate Generals like we had with some German Generals in OTL (Movies like The Desert Fox in OTL, I've just started reading the TL 191 series so I wouldn't know who the equivalent of Rommel would be so some help might be in order since i've been scanning the Turtledove Wiki, and wikipedia for timeline 191 as well as this thread). Could we possibly see films by Steven Speilberg (if he existed, and lived through the CSA invasion of Ohio where he was born) make films about the black holocaust (like OTL's Schindler's List), or a film about finding a lost Iowa soldier in CSA territory)? Maybe too obvious, though I do think it would be cool to have a character like OTL's Indiana Jones fighting off CSA troops. Maybe TTL's Indy (i can't think of a good name for him) could look for the Fountain of Youth in Florida, or Excalibur in Britain and have to fight off CSA agents.
Click to expand...

Although I didn't mention it in the first post, there was a surge of cinema and literature that focused on the common US experience during the Second Great War.

I suppose there is an equivalent for our world's Indiana Jones in TTL, although he would be called something else entirely. The next update will hopefully clarify US cinema even further.

One last thing, could you portray CSA soldiers humorously or as buffoons. For example, would their be a viral video of JAke Featherston unintelligibly ranting in a Southern Drawl that people would find funny :) or would that be seen as too lighthearded to portray the CSA that way?
Click to expand...

Those sorts of portrayals of Featherston don't really become accepted by the US public until the 1980s in TTL.
 
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