There may be even fewer references than IOTL, so no Federation background for TTL versions of the Peladon stories.

I wonder how soon Doctor Who will be released on CED - I doubt that these rights will have been sold to Desilu, so the BBC will still have control and it will depend upon how quickly TTL's version of BBC Enterprises gets up and running. Maybe contact with Desilu will prompt them to be a little quicker than OTL.

An episode of Doctor Who was about 25 minutes long, so it would fit conveniently on one side of a CED. OTOH, during the Yank Years, stories were 5 episodes long, which is not so convenient as you need 3 discs, with one side left blank. OTL's practice of generally having 4 or 6 episodes per story would actually have worked better.

Cheers,
Nigel.

So maybe they put promos for other story arcs available for sale on the sixth side? Why even limit themselves to Dr. Who? They could have promos for all the current and coming attractions now available for home viewing.
 
Just returned after a longish vacation; very impressed with the updates since I left.
Welcome back from your vacation! I hope you had a nice time. And thank you for the compliment! :)

The Blue-Eyed Infidel said:
On the NHL update: with the divisions as you've set them up, there are going to be some teams (LA, Colorado, Vancouver, Edmonton) with horrific travel schedules / budgets due to mulptiple games withing the division. I predict re-alignment in fairly short order.
There's one wrinkle with any realignment planning along those lines; at the time, IOTL and ITTL, regular season play occurred without regard to divisional affiliation; divisions only had an effect on post-season play. However, conference affiliation will matter ITTL, in order to maintain the 80-game season; three games against each of the other 23 teams (69) plus a fourth game against each of the other 11 teams in the same conference (11). Both conferences are probably more evenly dispersed overall.

The Blue-Eyed Infidel said:
On the format wars: I know you said - and believe you were correct in so doing - that you weren't going to address porn ITTL; it could be a factor in the format wars, though, as people are going to be reluctant to "interrupt their viewing" in order to flip over a disc.
As a corollary to that point, CED players don't allow for freeze-framing either (because, as mentioned, each rotation has multiple frames).

There may be even fewer references than IOTL, so no Federation background for TTL versions of the Peladon stories.
Both of the Peladon stories would have aired during the Yank Years ITTL, during which time there would likely be a special effort not to contradict the canon of Star Trek (and even if there wasn't, Desilu itself would catch any problems upon editing the footage). Something that I think would be likelier are references to the Gold Key Star Trek comics, which were revamped by David Gerrold at the beginning of the Yank Years; comic books seem to be more integral to the British science-fiction fandom than they are stateside (probably because the superhero genre is seen as more "independent" in contrast to the other genres of speculative fiction).

NCW8 said:
I wonder how soon Doctor Who will be released on CED - I doubt that these rights will have been sold to Desilu, so the BBC will still have control and it will depend upon how quickly TTL's version of BBC Enterprises gets up and running. Maybe contact with Desilu will prompt them to be a little quicker than OTL.
Looking at the OTL formation dates, the BBC seems to have been ahead of the curve when it came to home video, and I don't see them slowing down ITTL.

NCW8 said:
An episode of Doctor Who was about 25 minutes long, so it would fit conveniently on one side of a CED. OTOH, during the Yank Years, stories were 5 episodes long, which is not so convenient as you need 3 discs, with one side left blank. OTL's practice of generally having 4 or 6 episodes per story would actually have worked better.
Excellent point. This is a classic demonstration of where competing business interests can be contradictory. Though (especially if the BBC backs one of the VTR formats) there's nothing stopping PAL manufacturers from selling video capable of holding just 125 minutes of footage. In fact, cutting out four sets of opening and closing credits (reworking new "master" credits for an entire serial) might be enough to get them very close to under the two-hour limit, along with judicious cuts elsewhere.

I was thinking less archive & more Desilu...
Desilu didn't make radio shows :p (My Favorite Husband, the antecedent to I Love Lucy, was not produced by That Wacky Redhead, nor her husband).

phx1138 said:
Today, the timing is a bit odd, so less chance of a "perfect" 24min break...

Come to think of it, tho, with commercials out, you'd get two whole 30m episodes/disk.:cool:
Only thirteen discs for a whole 26-episode season, too! :eek:

So maybe they put promos for other story arcs available for sale on the sixth side? Why even limit themselves to Dr. Who? They could have promos for all the current and coming attractions now available for home viewing.
A distinct possibility. We'll have to see how the British television industry reacts to home video when the time comes :)
 
Both of the Peladon stories would have aired during the Yank Years ITTL, during which time there would likely be a special effort not to contradict the canon of Star Trek (and even if there wasn't, Desilu itself would catch any problems upon editing the footage).

Interesting point. How much editorial influence would Desilu have over Doctor Who ? To take one example, the story Colony in Space from Season 8 (which would be the first season of the Yank Years). Superficially this story strays into Star Trek territory. Set in 2471 on a colony planet where there have been some mysterious deaths, the Doctor discovers that the Master is trying to find an ancient superweapon that is guarded by the last survivor of the civilisation that built it. Other details fit less well into a Star Trek story - Earth is described as overpopulated and heavily poluted and there is a conflict between the colonists and the Interplanetary Mining Corporation.

Would Desilu leave this story as it is, try to fit it more clearly into the Star Trek ethos or request that the Star Trek-like elements be removed/toned-down ?

Something that I think would be likelier are references to the Gold Key Star Trek comics, which were revamped by David Gerrold at the beginning of the Yank Years; comic books seem to be more integral to the British science-fiction fandom than they are stateside (probably because the superhero genre is seen as more "independent" in contrast to the other genres of speculative fiction).

I never bought them myself, but I used to read them whenever I visited the barbers (these were the days before men went to hairdressers).

Looking at the OTL formation dates, the BBC seems to have been ahead of the curve when it came to home video, and I don't see them slowing down ITTL.

I must admit that I was thinking about the release of recordings of radio programmes, where the BBC was somewhat behind the curve. One example is The Goon Show, which was first released on LP in 1959. The first BBC release was 1974.

Excellent point. This is a classic demonstration of where competing business interests can be contradictory. Though (especially if the BBC backs one of the VTR formats) there's nothing stopping PAL manufacturers from selling video capable of holding just 125 minutes of footage. In fact, cutting out four sets of opening and closing credits (reworking new "master" credits for an entire serial) might be enough to get them very close to under the two-hour limit, along with judicious cuts elsewhere.

It's going to be tricky to do that and have natural break-points every 30 minutes. I suspect that they'll keep it simple and just throw in the third disc with the sixth side promoting other BBC Productions (as Asharella said) - especially if these are being made mainly for the American market where they'd like to promote shows that haven't been broadcast in the US.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
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Brainbin said:
Desilu didn't make radio shows :p (My Favorite Husband, the antecedent to I Love Lucy, was not produced by That Wacky Redhead, nor her husband).
:rolleyes: I meant by attitude, not by fact, & doubtless you knew that.:mad:;)
Brainbin said:
Only thirteen discs for a whole 26-episode season, too! :eek:
Somehow, I don't feature people buying an entire season of disks at once in this period. Unlike the '90s-'00s OTL with "the entire Season One on three DVDs". Especially when each CED is likely to run about $10 a pop.:eek::eek: (Which today is equal about $40.:eek:)
 
Interesting point. How much editorial influence would Desilu have over Doctor Who ? To take one example, the story Colony in Space from Season 8 (which would be the first season of the Yank Years). Superficially this story strays into Star Trek territory. Set in 2471 on a colony planet where there have been some mysterious deaths, the Doctor discovers that the Master is trying to find an ancient superweapon that is guarded by the last survivor of the civilisation that built it. Other details fit less well into a Star Trek story - Earth is described as overpopulated and heavily poluted and there is a conflict between the colonists and the Interplanetary Mining Corporation.
IOTL, of course, the period in which Star Trek is set was not made clear during the run of the original series; early posters for The Motion Picture described it as "A 23rd Century Odyssey Today", specifying the era for the first time (though it did not become official canon until the opening of Star Trek II). In fact, most hints on the show pointed to the 22nd century, not the 23rd - unsurprising when you consider that the entire series aired prior to Man setting foot on the Moon. Then again, there was some contradictory evidence; "The Squire of Gothos" suggests a 28th century setting (the Napoleonic Wars being 900 years in the past). ITTL, the evidence will more overwhelmingly point to the late 22nd century, though the writers obviously have little to gain by outright stating the year (as opposed to the stardate) because it limits their narrative options.

NCW8 said:
Would Desilu leave this story as it is, try to fit it more clearly into the Star Trek ethos or request that the Star Trek-like elements be removed/toned-down ?
Therefore, Desilu would - if they chose to do anything, which is questionable, as they may deem this beneath their notice - insist on a very distant future (into the fourth millennium or beyond). Restricting all references to Earth in the future would hobble the writers, so instead it's likely that a window (say, 2000 to 3000) would be closed.

NCW8 said:
I must admit that I was thinking about the release of recordings of radio programmes, where the BBC was somewhat behind the curve. One example is The Goon Show, which was first released on LP in 1959. The first BBC release was 1974.
Well, you know what they say - Video Killed the Radio Star :D

NCW8 said:
It's going to be tricky to do that and have natural break-points every 30 minutes. I suspect that they'll keep it simple and just throw in the third disc with the sixth side promoting other BBC Productions (as Asharella said) - especially if these are being made mainly for the American market where they'd like to promote shows that haven't been broadcast in the US.
One advantage, of course, is that the still-extant First and Second Doctor serials are more conducive to CEDs than subsequent Doctors...

Somehow, I don't feature people buying an entire season of disks at once in this period. Unlike the '90s-'00s OTL with "the entire Season One on three DVDs". Especially when each CED is likely to run about $10 a pop.:eek::eek: (Which today is equal about $40.:eek:)
I was, of course, joking. So long as CEDs only allow for one half-hour of footage per side, season boxed sets would remain impractical... for now :cool:

The next update should be ready in the next couple of days! Until then, however, I present to you another special infobox to whet your appetites...

TWR NHL 1977.png

For the record, the two moves were from Kansas City (to Colorado) and from Oakland (to Cleveland), both in 1976 (as IOTL).

Cities listed are the stated locations of the home arena, and not the largest city in the given metropolitan area (for which the team is usually - though not always - named). All arenas - and their names (and please note the conspicuous lack of sponsorship in the naming of public venues in this era) - are intended to be accurate as of the 1977-78 season. As previously mentioned, the Olympic Sports Arena in Denver is known as McNichols Sports Arena IOTL, as that city did not host the 1976 Winter Olympics.

TWR NHL 1977.png
 
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IOTL, of course, the period in which Star Trek is set was not made clear during the run of the original series; early posters for The Motion Picture described it as "A 23rd Century Odyssey Today", specifying the era for the first time (though it did not become official canon until the opening of Star Trek II). In fact, most hints on the show pointed to the 22nd century, not the 23rd - unsurprising when you consider that the entire series aired prior to Man setting foot on the Moon. Then again, there was some contradictory evidence; "The Squire of Gothos" suggests a 28th century setting (the Napoleonic Wars being 900 years in the past). ITTL, the evidence will more overwhelmingly point to the late 22nd century, though the writers obviously have little to gain by outright stating the year (as opposed to the stardate) because it limits their narrative options.

I don't think that Doctor Who even tried to maintain anything like a consistant timeline. It's even unclear exactly when the Unit stories of the Third doctor are set.

Therefore, Desilu would - if they chose to do anything, which is questionable, as they may deem this beneath their notice - insist on a very distant future (into the fourth millennium or beyond). Restricting all references to Earth in the future would hobble the writers, so instead it's likely that a window (say, 2000 to 3000) would be closed.

Interesting.

Edit: I suspect that if Desilu did act in too heavy-handed a fashion, later Who writers would get their own back by sneaking in some snide references to Desilu or Star Trek.

Well, you know what they say - Video Killed the Radio Star :D

So stick around 'cos we might miss you
When we grow tired of all this visual
You had your time - you had the power
You've yet to have your finest hour
:D

One advantage, of course, is that the still-extant First and Second Doctor serials are more conducive to CEDs than subsequent Doctors...

That's a fun picture. "Please Ms Ball, can we have our Doctor Who episodes back so that we can sell them in your backyard ?"

I was, of course, joking. So long as CEDs only allow for one half-hour of footage per side, season boxed sets would remain impractical... for now :cool:

Mind you, if The Daleks' Master Plan were released on CED, it would take six discs.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
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Brainbin said:
I was, of course, joking. So long as CEDs only allow for one half-hour of footage per side, season boxed sets would remain impractical... for now :cool:
Humor doesn't translate well to the text...

I like the faux WP infobox.:cool:

BTW: post #2000. (Since #1000 was here, too, I figured I'd stick with a good thing.:p)
 
Appendix A, Part VIII: The Next Voyage
Appendix A, Part VIII: The Next Voyage

Star Trek The Next Voyage.png
The title card for all eight episodes of the mini-series.

News of a planned Star Trek mini-series was first announced at the seventh annual “Summer of Star Trek” convention at Los Angeles in July, 1977; fittingly, at the inaugural event six years earlier, the crew of the Enterprise had appeared to promote the upcoming series finale, “These Were the Voyages”. Right up to the very moment of their grand reveal, the mini-series plans had been tightly guarded, and Desilu was not a leaky studio by nature; the news therefore came as a massive shock to the assembled fans, whose incredibly enthusiastic response left the executives who were representing both NBC and Desilu (including even VP Production Brandon Tartikoff, himself a self-proclaimed Trekkie) overwhelmed. By that time, pre-production had technically not even started – the studio and the network had only agreed to green-light the mini-series idea
just prior to their convention appearance. As anticipated, rounding up the original cast and crew would prove the major challenge before principal photography was to commence. Creator Gene Roddenberry, still working on his other series, The Questor Tapes, gave the project his blessing, but had minimal involvement in its overall development; he would proffer the occasional suggestion, usually unaware of the bigger picture at any given time, and was consequently largely ignored by the producers. However, his knack for self-promotion was not in any way diminished by his general lack of interest in the mini-series; he arranged for a “Star Trek Created By” credit to appear at the beginning of each episode, and, of course, saw to it that he would be very well-compensated financially; he had honed that skill to perfection during the later run of the series proper. The credited co-creator of Questor, and the most significant creative force of Star Trek throughout its run, Gene L. Coon, was sadly deceased long before the mini-series idea ever got off the ground, which obviously precluded any involvement on his part; it was therefore decided to dedicate the mini-series to his memory.

This left former Supervising Producer D.C. Fontana and Co-Producers David Gerrold and John Meredyth Lucas as the key creative personnel from the original series who would be ready, willing, and able to reprise their roles in much the same capacity.
All three scribes would be given story credit for each and every one of the episodes in the mini-series, having extensively conferred on the matter until reaching the point of consensus; in writing the teleplays, they tended to divide responsibilities amongst themselves, each choosing to focus on their established strengths: the more convoluted plotting and exposition was mostly left to Fontana; dialogue-heavy and comedic scenes were the purview of Gerrold; and Lucas would handle the more visual or action-oriented scenes, which doubly suited him, as he was unique among the trio in being an experienced director as well as a writer. Robert H. Justman, a steadfast Roddenberry ally, and now an independent producer, once again returned, this time as the nominal “showrunner”; though both he and Fontana were created as Executive Producers. Along with Gerrold and Lucas, the “Little Five” (to contrast with the Big Five of the original series) was rounded out by Brandon Tartikoff, taking the role of Executive in Charge of Production previously held by Herbert F. Solow, whose duties prevented him from taking an active role in the filming. The “Little Five”, working in tandem, developed the subtitle The Next Voyage for the mini-series; it was a nod to the teaser trailers airing during the original run of the show on NBC; titles considered, but rejected, included The New Voyages and The Next Phase. [1] With a name in place, attentions quickly turned to reuniting the old cast

It was fitting that William Shatner (who portrayed the iconic Captain, and now Commodore, James T. Kirk) had become immortalized during the run of the show (and, increasingly, in parodies) as a prima donna egotist who had insisted that everything was all about him; because the blame for the reluctance of many cast members to return to Star Trek could indeed be placed squarely on his shoulders. If any one thing could be said to have prevented a sixth season from coming to fruition, Shatner was the prime candidate. [2] In the years since the show had ended, he had been forced to subsist on plenty of humble pie. Like most of his castmates, he had been profoundly typecast; his
“musical” career, which had yielded three albums during the original run of Star Trek, had quickly fizzled out, and was increasingly regarded as either a drug-fueled avant-garde experiment gone horribly wrong, or as the singular, wretched monument to his titanic ego. Shatner had initially accepted the role of Kirk because of a dearth of other offers; he had only postponed the inevitable, for the early 1970s had seen him facing a major career drought. The highlight of his career during this period had been a 1973 Planet of the Apes parody entitled Monkey World, directed by newcomer John Landis, with makeup by Rick Baker, marking the first collaboration between the two. [3] Shatner had been forced to accept scale wages in exchange for the Charlton Heston part. Naturally, reviewers tended to describe it as “Captain Kirk and the Monkeys”, but this incongruity and blending of the franchise parodies (many Star Trek elements were added into the script last-minute, or were otherwise improvised on-set), always at Shatner’s expense, added to the hilarity. But this sleeper “success” was an anomaly; that once gargantuan ego had withered from the sheer inundation of rejection and ridicule it was now facing. His castmates, whom he had so callously mistreated during his salad days, all loathed him, and simply didn’t want to become involved in any more Star Trek unless he were not involved. And the very notion of the return of Star Trek without the return of James T. Kirk was simply untenable, creating an impasse.

The question of how to secure the presence of the entire cast was answered with the help of that universal incentive: money. By 1977, the original syndication revenues from the series proper, to which the performers had been contractually entitled had dried out, and the actors had never seen any of the income out of the vast merchandising derived from the property; due to Hollywood Accounting, Desilu had been able to claim all of their considerable gains from the sales of action figures depicting the actors’ likenesses against their “losses”. It was thus decided that each actor whose likeness was depicted in any and all merchandise sold after October 31, 1978, would receive a (very) small proportion of the gross sales revenues thereto. This concession – quite a minor one, in light of the massive, all-encompassing revenue streams available to the studio – was considered a shockingly benevolent gesture on their part, and it proved so irresistible that the entire regular cast signed up to return for The Next Voyage.

It was a good thing, too, because Leonard Nimoy, one of the few co-stars of Shatner who did not despise him, nevertheless had little interest in returning to the role of Spock. “He was a great character, a wonderful character, and I love him dearly,” as he had initially explained to his former producers. “But that was an earlier chapter in the story of my life, and I’ve closed the book on that.” [4] More specifically, he had closed the book on acting; he now exclusively directed, including for Desilu itself, as well as for Paramount next-door. By 1977, he had been nominated for several Emmys in that discipline (in addition to the three that he had won as an actor, for the role of Mr. Spock). But Nimoy was
– or at least, had been a true thespian, and the easiest way to lure him back to the role of Spock, beyond the already established perks (which, truth be told, were more than enough on their own), as well as the promise to have a chance to direct episodes of The Next Voyage along with acting in them, was a chance to look at his character from a different, novel perspective. And so, having come to terms with his origins, Captain Spock had married the closest thing he had to an established love interest, Nurse (and now Doctor) Christine Chapel, and the two had a young son (named Selek) together. Having repeatedly made clear during the original five-year mission that he had no desire to captain the Enterprise, his subsequent tenure doing just that, with the prospect for more, had fostered great ambivalence in him. The mini-series opened on Spock incredibly unsure about the direction of his future career; he was taking advantage of a leave of absence to contemplate this at the time the story begins.

DeForest Kelley was largely retired, making only the occasional guest appearance in various television series, including returning to the genre where he had made his name, the Western; he appeared in The High Chaparral, which had famously once shared NBC Monday nights with Star Trek, during its last season in 1973. [5] Indeed, he was more often seen at conventions than anywhere else, despite his personal shyness and reclusiveness, due to his love of the fans – many of whom, by now, had entered, and then graduated from, medical school.
Kelley was willing to appear even prior to being given the offer he couldn’t refuse, being on good terms with Shatner – and, indeed, with everybody in the cast. Ironically, he began the mini-series isolated from all of them: Dr. Leonard McCoy was working as a medical researcher at Starfleet Command (a slight retcon from the original series finale, in which he had left Starfleet entirely), having tired of front-line service and happy to remain close to his daughter, Joanna, who had by this time graduated from medical school (having enrolled at the end of the fourth-season episode “The Stars of Sargasso”). Their primary storyline entailed her deliberation as to whether to attend Starfleet Academy and join the service like her father, or to remain on Earth, as Bones himself had been planning to do before his bitter divorce from Joanna’s mother.

James Doohan, like Kelley, had largely retired from acting, though he continued to serve as a presenter on educational programs such as The Final Frontier. Nichelle Nichols, for her part, had retreated largely to the stage (her
“first love”), along with singing engagements, after the financial disappointment of her film Progress in 1976 (which had also led her co-star in that film, Bill Cosby, to similarly entrench himself into educational programming such as his Fat Albert cartoon series). Montgomery Scott, former Chief Engineering Officer of his beloved Enterprise (on which he had served for his entire career), had assumed the role of Acting Captain, pending the awaited career decision to be made by his ostensible superior and longtime crewmate, Captain Spock. He was very well-suited for the orders assigned to the Enterprise at the opening of the mini-series: the venerable old lady (described in the narrative as having been in active service for over a quarter of a century) had been scheduled for a refit, so as to further extend her useful life. Scotty was taking a direct role in supervising this undertaking, to ensure that the starbase technicians did not trifle with his “poor bairns”. His first officer, Commander Uhura, appeared together with Scotty quite frequently, providing the crew of the Enterprise (and, often, the viewing audience) with the necessary exposition, a natural result of her position as Communications Officer. Other characters who had remained with the Enterprise included Commander Ann Mulhall and Lieutenant Commander Angela Martine.

George Takei had moved into politics, and was serving on the Los Angeles City Council, representing the 10th District. Having won the special election to replace the previous Councillor (now the Mayor), Tom Bradley, he went on to win the general election for the seat in 1975, and was midway through serving his first full term when he received a call from Desilu Productions. His political activity had become so well-known in the entertainment industry that numerous Star Trek parodies would occasionally lampoon Takei’s aspirations by assigning them to Mr. Sulu, whose character was canonically established as a serial hobbyist. “Well, I’ve always been a fan of…”, his catchphrase, was usually put to good use in these sketches; Takei himself had wryly remarked that Sulu was positively ripe for parody. [6] As for his character in The Next Voyage, since he could not commit to nearly as full a shooting schedule as his castmates given his responsibilities on the Council, Sulu had been promoted to the Captain of a third ship, the USS Artemis, allowing him to remain away from the action for large sections of the mini-series. He was the only former regular who did not eventually cross paths with the others in the flesh (which also allowed him to avoid direct contract with William Shatner, who remained his hated nemesis), though he did communicate with most of them over the viewscreen.

John Winston, who had continued acting on both sides of the Atlantic (including in Doctor Who, making him the sole Star Trek alum to return to that program of his own volition), reprised his role as Commander Kyle, despite his reservations about the underdeveloped character. However, The Next Voyage finally gave him a first name, Norman (chosen by Winston himself, as he deemed it suitably evocative of his native Yorkshire), and established him as first officer of the Artemis. His presence in that position was twofold, for narrative purposes: it allowed Takei a recognizable co-star rather than being surrounded by strangers; and it allowed the Artemis to send a familiar representative to rendezvous with the crew of the Enterprise in person, in lieu of Captain Sulu. Lieutenant Commander Pavel Chekov, on the other hand, served on the Excelsior alongside Commodore Kirk; Walter Koenig was
– much to his own surprise, being a fairly pessimistic individual by nature – surprisingly enthusiastic about the idea of taking part in the mini-series. The presence of Kirk and Chekov on the Excelsior as opposed to the Enterprise was, in fact, quickly remedied by the machinations of the plot; the Excelsior had sustained massive damage in an early episode, and that coupled with the completed refit of the Enterprise (and the lack of a permanent Captain for that ship) motivated Kirk to seize the opportunity, and switch back to the vessel of his first command, which he had naturally come to regard as akin to a first love.

New characters, who had absolutely no connection to the original series, were relatively few and far between, and mostly limited to minor roles. In working to maintain the hard-earned reputation Star Trek had for breaking down boundaries, alien characters had more prominent roles in the crews aboard the various starships, including such aliens as the Tellarites, the Andorians, and the (previously-unseen) Saurians; among humans, a married interracial couple (a female security officer of European extraction, and a male scientist of African heritage), along with an openly gay character, Lieutenant Freeman, whose sexuality was largely downplayed, and mentioned only briefly, during a scene featuring the Orion slave girls (in which he disclaims interest despite the obvious enthusiasm of his crewmates, for this reason).
In the most surprising of the cameo appearances in The Next Voyage, Lucille Ball herself appeared as the President of the United Federation of Planets in a few scenes, scattered throughout the mini-series. Though never addressed by name (only as “the President” or “Madam President”), a nameplate on the desk in her office identified her as “L. Carter”, with no doubt in anyone’s mind as to what the “L” might have stood for. [7] So as to not attract undue attention to herself and to make her appear more believable as an office-holder, she agreed to let her red dye wash out for the role, one of the very few times she appeared onscreen without the trademark red hair for which she was famous (having kept up the look for interviews and publicity appearances in her capacity as, ironically enough, President of Desilu). Her old sidekick, Vivian Vance, appeared in one scene as an (also unnamed) aide to the President; it would prove her last-ever appearance on television, as she was already ailing from cancer, and would pass on before the end of the decade. [8]

However, and though great pains were assuredly taken to recreate the original look and feel of the series, there was also some desire to take advantage of advances in technology, many of which had been spearheaded by Desilu itself, particularly their post-production unit
(which had, after all, been stocked by the technicians from the original series upon its conclusion in 1971). The opportunities that came with rebuilding destroyed sets (only the original bridge, displayed at the Smithsonian Institution, survived) and fabricating new models and props were also an important factor in the decision to try new things. Andorian, Tellarite, and Orion makeup was subtly revised; those in charge relishing the opportunity to implement an entirely new look for the Saurians. The Vulcans and the Romulans, on the other hand, were left alone for the most part; the Klingons also received a makeup overhaul, though the suggestion by Gene Roddenberry to add forehead ridges to the species was roundly mocked and easily dismissed. [9] Most of these designs were the work of John Chambers, who had created the original Vulcan makeup in 1964. The Enterprise refit was largely intended to introduce a more streamlined appearance for the ship, which was created (as the original design had been) by Matt Jefferies. [10] The Excelsior and the Artemis were intended to be distinguishable from the Enterprise on sight, but (befitting their joint status as Federation starships) were very similar in overall appearance. The interiors were kept largely intact, with the primary difference being a more muted colour scheme, to differentiate from the garish tones of the late 1960s (with muted palettes, in turn, coming to represent the 1970s).

The era of the Star Trek universe was,
for the first time, firmly dated, with the action taking place over the summer of 2176 including July 4th of that year, allowing for the perfunctory observance of the quadricentennial of the Declaration of Independence, and how its ideals remained relevant in the modern Federation; this retroactively dated the original five-year mission from 2165 to 2170. [11] The overarcing storyline entailed a dispute by the galactic power over a newly discovered planet, with the potential for great scientific development of an unspecified nature – in other words, a classic MacGuffin, not unlike the Maltese Falcon. The planet – named, with typical Star Trek subtlety, Gaia – was located on the border of expanding Federation, Klingon, and Romulan space. Most of the nearby worlds were resource-poor and (by necessity) forced to commit what limited materiel they did have to munitions and defences. All three sides were closely monitoring the planet, which inevitably resulted in a multi-party skirmish when hasty reconnaissance allegedly misinterpreted enemy signals. This battle was the centrepiece of the first episode, and many characters (including Spock, as well as the entire crew of the Enterprise, and the ship itself) were deliberately not introduced until the second episode as a blatant – and successful – attempt to further entice viewers. Captain Sulu and the Artemis would not make their first appearance until well into the third episode. The four central characters – Kirk, Spock, Bones, and Scotty – were, fittingly, not reunited on the bridge of the Enterprise until the fourth episode, nearly halfway through the mini-series. The lengthy round-up period, though impeccably constructed as a means of building tension and anticipation, still ate into the time that could have been spent on character interaction, the singular strength of the series proper.

Kirk, in one of the classically allegorical scenes of The Next Voyage, lamented the situation to Spock in the fifth episode: “Just a few years ago, we signed a historic peace treaty, all three sides, promising that this sort of thing would never happen again. And yet, here we are. I just… don’t understand it, Spock.

It is not unprecedented, Captain,” Spock replied, in one of his most famous speeches. “Even as the ink was drying on the peace treaties concluding your First World War – the so-called war to end all wars – many conflicts continued on, and threatened to engulf the rest of Europe, despite desperation, seemingly on all sides, for peace. And in the Second World War, after the surrender of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, the two emerging superpowers were ideologically opposed from the very beginning, with the omnipresent threat of a third to follow, fought with devastating weapons previously unknown to your science.

But it never happened, Spock. They never went to war. In time, the two superpowers became friends.

Indeed, Commodore. But that is not the inevitable option. It is clear that sentient beings are naturally warlike, despite the logic of peace; perhaps because the competitiveness of evolution drives them to become so. It seems that morality and enlightenment are necessary corrective measures to these essential behaviours.

The question of stakes was a major one throughout the development of The Next Voyage. All of the regulars had returned, though there was some question as to whether they would want to continue returning on an infrequent basis for hypothetical future projects; Desilu had played a major trump card in luring them back this time, and they would not be able to turn the same trick again. By this time, George Takei was already considering a run for higher office, and was committed to a lifetime in public service, so his character was the obvious candidate for being killed off. “If I’m Governor or Senator Takei, a few years down the line, I don’t think I can sneak back to Desilu as easily as I can when I’m just on the City Council,” Takei explained. Thus, the USS Artemis was destroyed defending the Enterprise from a Romulan ship that had suddenly emerged from cloak in an attempt to ambush the Federation flagship, with all handsincluding both Captain Sulu and his first officer, Commander Kyle
perishing, ending the seventh episode in a dramatic fashion; the Artemis was avenged in the climactic, decisive battle that ensued. The final episode ended with all sides agreeing to recognize Gaia as planeta nullius, with each galactic power sending a research delegation down to the planet so that all sides could partake in the opportunities for scientific breakthroughs mutually, and sustainably. The President announced that she would retire at the end of her term, endorsing none other than Ambassador Sarek as her successor. In turn, this created an opportunity for his son, Starfleet Captain Spock, to succeed him as Vulcan Ambassador to the Federation. Meanwhile, Commodore James T. Kirk was reassigned to his first command, the Enterprise, with Acting Captain Scott being given his official promotion but remaining on hand, nonetheless, as Chief Engineering Officer of the Enterprise. Commander Uhura, on the other hand, was offered, and accepted, a promotion to Captain for herself, and she took charge of the Excelsior in the stead of Commodore Kirk. Dr. McCoy had been invited to head the Federation research delegation on Gaia, but not before giving Joanna his blessing to pursue a career in Starfleet, which she did.

Star Trek: The Next Voyage aired on eight consecutive nights in February, 1978, on NBC. Fan reaction, though generally positive, was not without reservations; though many were delighted to see their beloved characters once again, embarking on all-new adventures, the precise nature of these adventures became the subject of considerable dispute. As was typical of the mini-series format, each character had an individual, tightly focused storyline, given far more focus than the more subtle, gradual character development of the original series. Opponents of this storytelling decision labeled the result as “Star Trek: The Soap Opera” or (more to the point) “Soap Trek. It would become the rallying cry for the small, but increasingly vocal, minority of Trekkies who found every effort to keep the Star Trek property alive following the end of the show’s original run in 1971 to be sorely wanting. Their passionate fervour, their insistence on a strict definition of the canon, and their devotion to “the Kirk” earned them the derisive nickname of Puritans, which quickly stuck; fan lore ascribed the term to a possibly apocryphal remark credited, as such things so often were, to David Gerrold about their “puritanical ravings”. This imposed designation met with mixed reception amongst many of the so-called Puritans themselves, unsurprisingly based largely on their own religiosity.

Trekkies in general, outside of the Puritan faction, were generally more positive; many criticisms noted that, overall, The Next Voyage seemed very much a direct continuation in terms of the emphasis on the visual aspects of the production over the plotting and storytelling elements, carrying over common complaints about the fifth season of the series proper. Nonetheless, praise was directed at the return of these beloved characters, who (in at least some situations) were able to exhibit that cherished chemistry with certain co-stars which had so endeared them to audiences. The interracial coupling, though not as “timely” several years after the premiere of Moving on Up, was still much obliged, as was the (more risky) openly gay, but non-stereotypical character of Lieutenant Freeman (a marked contrast to the far more cartoonish Joe Austin on Soap). [12] But recapturing that nebulous “magic” seemed just beyond the reach of the creators. It was akin to a family reunion, without quite the same joy as going back home for the holidays. The timeworn cliché was nevertheless clearly true: you can’t go home again, and neither could the crew of the Enterprise. Oddly, it was more casual fans, along with critics and the general viewing public at large, who seemed to take the mini-series best: it was good television, even if it was, perhaps, not the best possible Star Trek. Ratings were, as expected, phenomenal, and reviews were overall very positive; detachment from the finer nuances of fanon allowed the waves of nostalgia to be unhampered by niggling doubts and irritations. The final and top-rated episode scored a 54.1 rating and a 74 share, indicating a television audience of over 40 million households – in a quirk of the Nielsen metrics, the highest-rated episode of The Next Voyage managed a far higher rating than the 47 managed by “These Were the Voyages” in 1971 (and, in beating Roots, regained the all-time viewership crown for Star Trek and Desilu); however, the 74 share (representing the percentage of total television sets that were turned on at the time) was lower than the 75 share that program had managed seven years earlier; this was very likely because of the rise of both PBS and the VHF “superstations” in the intervening time, and the increasing variety of options available to home viewers would continue to proliferate in the years to come
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Eight episodes obviously would not do well in syndication – and the lapse in production time, coupled with the visual changes and the substantially different tone to The Next Voyage as opposed to the original five seasons, came together to ensure that they would not be added to the existing syndication package of Star Trek. Even disregarding these concerns, adding eight episodes would cause the total count to no longer be divisible by five, which would necessitate restoring the absent two-parter crossover with Doctor Who, which in turn would create conflicts with the syndication package for that series. But Lucille Ball had arranged to have an ace up her sleeve, which was soon revealed as the home video deal with RCA. Star Trek: The Next Voyage would be released exclusively on CED at a future date to be determined. Both sides were inclined towards waiting for the technology to allow at least one hour (and, therefore, one full episode) worth of footage per side, and projections at the time pegged that happening by 1980-81 at the latest. Already, the Best of Star Trek CEDs were selling like hotcakes, to the point that Desilu had authorized the release of a second volume of episodes[/FONT][FONT=&quot].

---

[1] IOTL, the planned (and eventually, aborted) sequel series to Star Trek was to be called Phase II.[/FONT]

[2] As mentioned in earlier updates, Shatner was one of a number of major causes preventing the continuation of Star Trek past season five, including ballooning budget figures, and fatigue on the part of many producers (including Coon and Fontana) with working on the show, and a desire to move on; several cast members, primarily Leonard Nimoy, had personal concerns that were largely unconnected with
Shatner’s titanic ego; however, and without question, his actions went a long way in making a sixth season unfeasible. Fans, as you might expect, were conflicted about their leading man; the fifth season, apart from a few highlights like “The Borderland” and “These Were the Voyages”, was universally considered the weakest, and many shared the behind-the-scenes opinion that the show was starting to run out of gas.

[3] This film was never made IOTL, but represents the increased popularity ITTL of the Planet of the Apes franchise (remember one of the truisms of That Wacky Redhead: it isn
’t truly popular unless it has been properly parodied or lampooned). In terms of plotting and style, imagine the John Landis/ZAZ formula applied to Planet of the Apes.

[4] Though not the book called I Am Not Spock, which was not written ITTL.

[5] The High Chaparral had been cancelled in 1971, IOTL.

[6] IOTL, of course, Sulu was such a stereotypical “straight-man” character that he was not effectively parodied at all; Saturday Night Live, which has frequently parodied Star Trek, made a running gag out of casting their longtime production designer to play him as an absolute non-entity. However, in the years since Takei has achieved internet notoriety, his character has far more frequently appeared in parodies, though as a transparent ripoff of Takei’s “campy” persona as opposed to Sulu himself (similar to how Kirk is always partly William Shatner as well). ITTL, Sulu has a more well-known personality which, fortunately, is equally conducive to the real-life exploits of his performer.

[7] “Carter” was the surname of the character portrayed by That Wacky Redhead in Here’s Lucy from 1968 to 1974, a sitcom which does not exist ITTL (allowing her to use the name here instead; she had a thing about names with
“AR” in them). That means there is a President Carter ITTL after all!

[8] Vance died on August 17, 1979, IOTL, from bone cancer. Her final appearance with That Wacky Redhead was in the one-off television special Lucy Calls the President, which aired on November 21, 1977. Her last appearance of any kind was on the short-lived cop-dog crime drama series Sam, on the episode airing April 18, 1978.


[9] The infamous ridges were added to the Klingons beginning with Star Trek: The Motion Picture (in the opening scenes, in fact, as a Klingon crew captained by none other than Marc Lenard are the first people to be seen). The Klingons and their swarthy, vaguely Asiatic appearances are deemed too “iconic” to be so heavily modified as they were IOTL, by people who have some respect for continuity (by contrast, the Tellarites appeared only a few times in the series proper). That said, Klingons in the mini-series do more universally have the Kor-style shoe-polish-and-Fu-Manchu look to them, in contrast to the original series, where many Klingons were quite obviously Caucasians with beards.

[10] Jefferies also designed the
“refit” Enterprise intended for use in Phase II (and later The Motion Picture); it was a far more conservative redesign than some of the radical proposals put forward by others. ITTL, the design actually hews closer to that of the original series, more akin to this design.

[11] The five-year mission was dated from 2265 to 2270 IOTL, in 2001, though the general setting of the late-23rd century was established at a much earlier date (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan established the approximate era to within a few years without pinning it down exactly). The reason why the show is set a century earlier than IOTL is because the space program
– the primary determining factor in any forward projection – is far more advanced as of the late 1970s ITTL.

[12] Notoriously, despite the reputation for social progressivism associated with Star Trek, none of the OTL series or films in the franchise featured a homosexual regular (occasional dalliances by regulars which could theoretically be called “bisexual” were done strictly for allegorical or, more crassly, titillation purposes). The original series is obviously given a pass for this, having aired in the 1960s (when homosexuality was still considered a mental disorder), and earnestly attempting to break other boundaries (primarily racial, and ITTL, sexual as well). However, later iterations which began airing in the 1980s have no such excuse. In my research on the subject, most sources appear (with various degrees of hedging) to put the blame on executive Rick Berman for this decision, which he stubbornly maintained despite mounting pressure to change it over the years. IOTL, one of the earliest attempts to address sexuality in the franchise was spearheaded by David Gerrold (who is himself gay), and it should come as no surprise that he (along with George Takei) encouraged the inclusion of a gay character in the mini-series; a timely decision in 1978, for reasons which will soon be made quite clear.

---

Special thanks to e of pi, Thande, and vultan, whose overall suggestions (well, some of them, anyway) have been worked into this update!

The big question is: how was the mini-series received? That depends on your perspective. Trekkies were generally receptive, save for the hardcore contingent, which (as I
’ve mentioned before) is smaller relative to the critical mass than IOTL (allowing for the “Puritan” nickname to stick). These people tend to dislike The Next Voyage, and are very vocal in their criticism. You may notice a roughly analogous response as to a rather recent production within the franchise IOTL, though the tone and style of this production is obviously much closer to the original, given the much closer chronological proximity, along with the active involvement of many members from the original production.

Another question that I
’m sure many of you are now asking: Will there be more Star Trek ITTL? Well, now, that would be telling :cool:


Star Trek The Next Voyage.png
 
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Nicely done again.:) I do love the real behind the scenes stuff like this.:cool:
Brainbin said:
It was fitting that William Shatner (who portrayed the iconic Captain, and now Commodore, James T. Kirk) had become immortalized during the run of the show (and, increasingly, in parodies) as a prima donna egotist who had insisted that everything was all about him; because the blame for the reluctance of many cast members to return to Star Trek could indeed be placed squarely on his shoulders.
How the mighty are fallen...:eek:

Do we see him with Carol Marcus? Or is that over already? Or butterflied TTL?
Brainbin said:
The question of how to secure the presence of the entire cast was answered with the help of that universal incentive: money.
Which should surprise nobody. This is Hollywood...:rolleyes:
Brainbin said:
Captain Spock had married the closest thing he had to an established love interest, Nurse (and now Doctor) Christine Chapel, and the two had a young son (named Selek) together.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of all the things about "TOS" I hated, Chapel's crush on Spock was the worst.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: This tops the Troi-Riker wedding as a terrible idea.:eek::

That said, an ambivalent Spock offering Leonard the chance to essentially re-invent the character...:cool::cool:
Brainbin said:
DeForest Kelley ...being given the offer he couldn’t refuse
:p I'm thinking a few people may need to find that horse's head in their beds to get past the loathing of Shat.:p

It also appears that phrase has still entered the lexicon TTL. So is signing up to work with Shat again keeping your friends close & your enemies closer?:p
Brainbin said:
allowed him to avoid direct contract with William Shatner, who remained his hated nemesis
Guess not.:p
Brainbin said:
Other characters who had remained with the Enterprise included Commander Ann Mulhall and Lieutenant Commander Angela Martine.
A real reunion. All you need is Kor & Koloth.:p
Brainbin said:
Excelsior
So had there been "Phase 2" OTL, this is what she'd have been called? And the plague of alphabetical stupidity:mad: would have been avoided?:cool:
Brainbin said:
Lucille Ball herself appeared as the President of the United Federation of Planets in a few scenes, scattered throughout the mini-series. Though never addressed by name (only as “the President” or “Madam President”), a nameplate on the desk in her office described her as “L. Carter”, with no doubt in anyone’s mind as to what the “L” might have stood for.
And you thought Lucy had no political ambitions.:p She just never thinks small, does she?:p
Brainbin said:
Vivian Vance, appeared in one scene as an (also unnamed) aide to the President; it would prove her last-ever appearance on television
:cool::cool: Nice, nice touch. Well done.
Brainbin said:
the suggestion by Gene Roddenberry to add forehead ridges to the species was roundly mocked and easily dismissed.
Need I say I'm among those who think this was one of the better changes to Klingons?:rolleyes:
Brainbin said:
Excelsior and Artemis were intended to be distinguishable from the Enterprise on sight, but (befitting their joint status as Federation starships) were very similar in overall appearance.
Not to mention deriving from a similar original design? That is, as alike as Gato & Tench, tho very different in detail?
Brainbin said:
"...It is clear that sentient beings are naturally warlike..."
This is just patent nonsense. War is a cultural construct, not a genetic imperative, & certainly not among non-Terrans.
Brainbin said:
morality and enlightenment are necessary corrective measures
I'm smelling religious overtones Gene would never have agreed to...
Brainbin said:
they would not be able to turn the same trick again
And the miniseries offers the opportunity to establish new characters who could be the basis for TTL's "TNG".:cool:
Brainbin said:
Acting Captain Scott being given his official promotion but remaining on hand, nonetheless, as Chief Engineering Officer
Which fits the character--but I wager Jimmy Doohan wished Scotty'd get his own ship.
Brainbin said:
Commander Uhura, on the other hand, was offered, and accepted, a promotion to Captain for herself, and she took charge of the Excelsior
:cool:
Brainbin said:
Star Trek: The Next Voyage would be released exclusively on CED
:cool:
Brainbin said:
later iterations which began airing in the 1980s have no such excuse. In my research on the subject, most sources appear (with various degrees of hedging) to put the blame on executive Rick Berman for this decision, which he stubbornly maintained despite mounting pressure to change it over the years.
:rolleyes::mad: Somebody push him under a train.:mad:
 
Trek nerd concern:

One thing established in OTL TOS canon (and since "Balance of Terror" was IIRC a first season episode and in both timelines, established here too) is that the Romulan war was 100 years before TOS. With the timeframe of TOS now nailed down to the second half of the 22nd century, that means the Romulan war has to be starting around 2060. By then, Terran humanity had clearly developed technology comparable to the Vulcans and other spacefaring founders of the Federation, otherwise we could hardly have had such a leading role in that organization. Presumably Terrans are demographically big hitters, which can be accounted for both by Sol system having a high population and Earth having lots of colonies. That too argues that we've had warp drive, at respectably high warp speeds, for some decades at the very least, to give us time to work the early bugs out, make contact with lots of alien species (well, Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites at least) and establish a bunch of colonies in other star systems--all this before colliding with the Romulans in war, which presumably helps catalyze the formation of the Federation and a unified Starfleet.

So--presumably Zefram Cochrane (who I presume was also named as the inventor of Earth's version of warp drive, though perhaps not, in this timeline) had to do his work sometime between 2010 and 2030 at the latest.

Tick tock! Tick tock! The OTL showrunners bought themselves a whole century of wiggle room that has been rather, um, boldly, tossed away here! If the timeline were extrapolated to the present day, either the timeline has fantastic technology we can only envy, or more likely, the Trek fans are running into a wall. I can see the more fanatical ones as panicked versions of Paul Revere, running around screaming "The Romulans are coming! Where's our warp drive??":D

OTOH, between Kirk's offhand "But that never happened!" and the short timeframe that requires the pioneers of a century ago to be the grandchildren of the very generation that saw the first episode of Trek air in '64, presumably there is no devastating nuclear war. Well, canon still has the Eugenics Wars, but we might well suppose those weren't as devastating as an all out thermonuclear holocaust.

If warp drive in 2020 is ridiculously early, having it developed by the 2060s and then taking a whole dang century for Sol to get to the marginal place it is in the 2160s if we take Enterprise for canon is even sillier, even granting Earth suffered some nasty diebacks and damage. On the whole I like the new timeframe better, if only I could believe this Cochrane person is out there even as we speak working on gravity control and inferring the possibility of warp from it. I certainly think that within a few decades of our launching our first FTL ship, we Terrans would be a much bigger deal than OTL canon has us being a century later; we'd have colonies and trade lines and might possibly have made such a nuisance of ourselves we'd have the Vulcans and Andorians uniting in a truce just to quash us.:rolleyes:
-----
On the other hand, pace phx1138, I don't find Spock's remark about the need to develop ethics to restrain the otherwise destructive competitive impulses of starfaring peoples to be a "religious" one, or anyway one out of line with Roddenberry. The man clearly was, if an atheist, one of those Unitarian types of atheists who puts much store in the notion of ethical progress. In that context, the extra century arrived at by gradual consensus among the OTL post-Motion Picture showrunners (with, remember, Roddenberry hanging in there especially for TNG, until he died) makes more sense. The reasoning is, we Terrans need to reform ourselves and the costly tribulations of the upcoming century are needed more to transform our societies than to advance our tech; presumably that explains why in OTL canon, it does take us a whole century after developing warp drive to become a respectable player in interstellar affairs at last.

Now is that right, anthropologically speaking? I think the evidence of anthropology is against the idea that humanity achieved intelligence and technological potential via ruthless violence and agree that "War is a cultural construct, not a genetic imperative..." However, while I've been quite enthusiastic about the notion we Terrans might have possibly achieved high civilization without the sort of ugliness we've taken as normal the past 5000 years or so, I have to wonder if perhaps this ugliness, the "cultural construction" of people driven to ultimate savagery by the purely social imperatives of a "dominator" mindset, might not indeed be integral to our technological progress after all. If so, then yes, it seems quite likely that regardless of whatever degree of competitive violence is the genetic heritage of any evolving species, as soon as there's a question of that species using tools and cooperative labor to develop space-faring tech, they might well all have to go through a phase that endorses the most savage values by cultural means.

We can hope not. Or that while this might be the common path, it isn't universal.

But right or wrong, I don't hear Spock contradicting Roddenbery, I hear him voicing him.
 
Yet another great update. Putting the actors on separate ships is certainly a plausible way of dealing with their conflicts.

Their primary storyline entailed her deliberation as to whether to attend Starfleet Academy and join the service like her father, or to remain on Earth, as Bones himself had been planning to do before his better divorce from Joanna's mother.

I think that you mean bitter divorce - unless you're implying that divorce was better than the alternatives. :D


John Winston, who had continued acting on both sides of the Atlantic (including in Doctor Who, making him the sole Star Trek alum to return to that program of his own volition)

I guess that he didn't appear as Kyle. Doctor Who has never shied away from recycling actors in different roles. For example, Colin Baker first appeared on the show as a guard captain. As he said in an interview, he got the part of the Doctor after shooting his predecessor.

So--presumably Zefram Cochrane (who I presume was also named as the inventor of Earth's version of warp drive, though perhaps not, in this timeline).

That was established in the second season episode Metamorphosis, which I think would be more or less the same ITTL.

Cheers,
Nigel
 

Falkenburg

Monthly Donor
Almost missed that last Update. :eek: Thankfully Shevek's Post made me scroll upwards. :D

Hooray for The High Chapparal! DeForrest Kelley always looked comfortable in his skin but he looked 'Right' (to my eyes) in Westerns.
Maybe because he was the only member of TOS Crew I recognised from elsewhere, when I saw it first?

By the way, I think McCoys divorce should probably have been "Bitter".
Unless that's a comment about both parties subsequent happiness? ;)

EDIT: Just realised I was Ninja-ed by Nigel. And almost word for word too. :oops:

More worryingly, I hope George Takei isn't going to get 'Milked'. :eek:

Intriguing as ever, Brainbin. Onwards to Turtledove glory! :cool:

Falkenburg
 
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Brainbin

Nothing really to add to what others have said but a great new mini-series. A bit odd that Kirk stays with the Enterprise, given that although upgraded its now pretty elderly. Also while I can see the merit in Sulu's demise, given Takei's career plans a pity that Kyle, having TTL established himself as a regular also goes. Presumably partly that Winston also had career plans making him available or that the decision was a big bang with no survivors suited the plot more than Artemis being so badly damaged that she falls apart, isn't worth saving but with some survivors.

Going to be difficult getting many of the regulars together that many more times I suspect, simply because of age and diverging interests. However wonder where things will go from here.

From the comment about "
of a gay character in the mini-series; a timely decision in 1978, for reasons which will soon be made quite clear" this sounds like something of social/political significant will be occurring shortly in RL in TTL?

Steve
 
I'm guessing it might have something to do with Harvey Milk.

a) His assassination (and Mayor Moscone's) is butterflied away and the man progresses in Bay Area and California politics, taking proteges up with him; it becomes topical because he asserts himself loud enough to be heard across the nation. (As he was already doing OTL)

b) He is shot and killed, but the political reverberations across the nation as a result are louder.

c) He is shot but survives. Bully pulpit, once he can start talking again!
 
Shevek23 said:
the Romulan war has to be starting around 2060...So--presumably Zefram Cochrane (who I presume was also named as the inventor of Earth's version of warp drive, though perhaps not, in this timeline) had to do his work sometime between 2010 and 2030 at the latest.
This is a troublingly short timespan. And I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't notice that.:eek:

However, it may not be as short as it seems. If we take "ST:E" as canon (still), Cochrane was working alone, in the fashion of Burt Rutan & Scaled Composites (or the Texas rocketeer whose name I can't recall:eek:). So TTL doesn't have NASA & its gang of idiots getting in the way of developments. Now, how much help (or hindrance) the Vulcans were TTL is an open question--especially if you accept "ST:E"'s proposition the Vulcans were actively hindering human warptech.:eek: Either way, 30-40yr of tech advancement is a lot, when you consider society has changed more in the last 25yr than in about 100 before that.:eek::eek: So, in the period 2030-2060, tech will have changed more than it has since 1800.
Shevek23 said:
presumably there is no devastating nuclear war. Well, canon still has the Eugenics Wars, but we might well suppose those weren't as devastating as an all out thermonuclear holocaust.
How total a nuclear exchange was it? Between who? I don't recall OTL canon ever saying--I, like most I imagine, just presumed it was SU-U.S. By 1977 TTL, the writers might have decided to "clarify"...
Shevek23 said:
If warp drive in 2020 is ridiculously early, having it developed by the 2060s and then taking a whole dang century for Sol to get to the marginal place it is in the 2160s if we take Enterprise for canon is even sillier, even granting Earth suffered some nasty diebacks and damage.
Absolutely.
Shevek23 said:
On the whole I like the new timeframe better, if only I could believe this Cochrane person is out there even as we speak working on gravity control and inferring the possibility of warp from it. I certainly think that within a few decades of our launching our first FTL ship, we Terrans would be a much bigger deal than OTL canon has us being a century later; we'd have colonies and trade lines and might possibly have made such a nuisance of ourselves we'd have the Vulcans and Andorians uniting in a truce just to quash us.:rolleyes:
I agree, in the main: such dismally slow FTL development is contrary to the other tech advances which are going to happen. OTOH, it may well be increased Warp needs new tech just to work. How hard is it to calculate warp courses? To keep the drive intermix right? That may need new tech.

As for "expansion", it does depend on the scale of the FTL: a Warp 1 drive still puts you over four years from Alpha Centauri, & years more to Vulcan or Andor. Safe, fast high-warp ships might be even more dangerous than safe, fast steamers--& those weren't common for anything like the first century of steam travel.:eek: It appears warp drive is orders of magnitude more difficult & dangerous...:eek:
Shevek23 said:
I don't find Spock's remark about the need to develop ethics to restrain the otherwise destructive competitive impulses of starfaring peoples to be a "religious" one, or anyway one out of line with Roddenberry. The man clearly was, if an atheist, one of those Unitarian types of atheists who puts much store in the notion of ethical progress. In that context, the extra century arrived at by gradual consensus among the OTL post-Motion Picture showrunners (with, remember, Roddenberry hanging in there especially for TNG, until he died) makes more sense. The reasoning is, we Terrans need to reform ourselves and the costly tribulations of the upcoming century are needed more to transform our societies than to advance our tech; presumably that explains why in OTL canon, it does take us a whole century after developing warp drive to become a respectable player in interstellar affairs at last.
I agree, that was Gene's view. I was taking that particular remark as the writers' contradicting his (pretty explicit) atheistic view.
Shevek23 said:
I have to wonder if perhaps this ugliness, the "cultural construction" of people driven to ultimate savagery by the purely social imperatives of a "dominator" mindset, might not indeed be integral to our technological progress after all.
I think our "savagery" is a product of cultural/social choices: namely, we adopted/invented agriculture. Once we'd done that, & we got some people better at growing & some better at stealing, it was a small step to walls & armies & organized warfare. (Or so says Gwynn Dyer, IIRC, & I agree.)

Does that drive technological innovation? In some ways, I think it does. More important, tho, is that we're tool users to begin with. Improved tools make life easier. And we have language to make improving tools easier. That also is, to some extent, a cultural factor: language is a cultural artifact, tho it & tool use are genetically dependent.
Shevek23 said:
as soon as there's a question of that species using tools and cooperative labor to develop space-faring tech, they might well all have to go through a phase that endorses the most savage values by cultural means.
I follow Pournelle, here, & completely disagree. Once we've become spacefaring, the pressures to war should disappear: territory & energy, the main limits on society, disappear for all practical purposes. That being so, any spacefaring species should be peaceful--or it would have made itself extinct before achieving true spacefaring (in this context, high warp).
Shevek23 said:
I don't hear Spock contradicting Roddenbery, I hear him voicing him.
I'm not sure Spock was, either. I think the writers might have been... I also think they got it wrong, if that's what they believe.
Falkenburg said:
More worryingly, I hope George Takei isn't going to get 'Milked'. :eek:
:eek::eek: It appears not: state, not local.

Fair chance Milk's assassination is butterflied--but if the biopic is right, it had less to do with Milk being gay than with Dan White being a nutcase.:eek::rolleyes:
Falkenburg said:
Onwards to Turtledove glory! :cool:
+1 & then some.:cool::cool:
 
An interesting update.
I agree that 2175 seems far too early but I guess maybe the temptation was too unavoidable to the team (tho surely 500 years should be more tempting?)
Ah well, i guess someone will come up a workable solution ;) :D
 
BTW the German opening credits placed Star Trek in the year 2200.

So, they split the difference!

I wonder now when these credits, clearly added to the German version, were first run. Any time after TNG started airing, or wait, doesn't Brainbin already have it pinned down to within a few decades by the time Wrath of Khan was released, in 1982, the showrunners at Paramount had already settled on the approximate time range of TOS as in the 2260s, so if those German credits were put in after that they were not listening to Word of God. (Word that might have been still internal studio-canon, not publicly declared yet).

I took time to try looking online for the first airdate of German-dubbed (or was it subtitled?) TOS airings in West Germany (be funny if they showed it in East Germany first, but I doubt it:rolleyes:) and I am stymied; maybe Brainbin already knows, maybe you do, Barbarossa? From articles about the controversy in airing "Patterns of Force" in 2011 (after 10 pm, with parental advisories not to let kids under 16 watch) I glean that as I expected, it was first syndicated in the 1970s there. Were you actually watching the first airings back then, BR? Back then, even if Roddenberry and others had in the back of their minds TOS is supposed to be 23rd century they were keeping it quiet, and of course in those wandering in the wilderness days there wasn't really a "franchise" except in the sense that Paramount owned the actual franchised selling of TOS and maybe TAS showing rights-no Star Trek HQ to rule on canon facts other than Gene Roddenbery laying down pronouncements that had no meaning until new shows started to be produced. So I guess the German subtitlers were left on their own, and took their best shot.

Then, if you saw those titles later, in the late 80s or after, it was a matter of inertia--they weren't going to go back and edit the existing copies of film or tape or whatever they used to correct the error.

If the particular captions you saw were created any later than say 1985, I guess we have an egregious failure to communicate.:(

Now I'm curious--does anyone have a comprehensive list of when authorized versions of the Trek series, subtitled or dubbed or just released in orginal American English, were first shown in the various nations of the world?

I'm especially curious to know if they were ever shown in the Soviet Bloc countries before the breakup of the Warsaw Pact, in any form.

And in how many countries were they never shown on broadcast (or widely available cable) so that the first chance to see would have been either via satellite broadcast or videotape?
 
phx1138

I agree, in the main: such dismally slow FTL development is contrary to the other tech advances which are going to happen. OTOH, it may well be increased Warp needs new tech just to work. How hard is it to calculate warp courses? To keep the drive intermix right? That may need new tech.

As for "expansion", it does depend on the scale of the FTL: a Warp 1 drive still puts you over four years from Alpha Centauri, & years more to Vulcan or Andor. Safe, fast high-warp ships might be even more dangerous than safe, fast steamers--& those weren't common for anything like the first century of steam travel.:eek: It appears warp drive is orders of magnitude more difficult & dangerous...:eek:

I think a lot depends on the circumstances. If things move fairly rapidly with the development of warp drive and suitable planets are fairly common then humanity can expand pretty rapidly. [This rather ignores the big problem with such multi-race universes, in which so many have similar environments but the first one to develop warp drive doesn't fill virtually all the niches:(].

I think our "savagery" is a product of cultural/social choices: namely, we adopted/invented agriculture. Once we'd done that, & we got some people better at growing & some better at stealing, it was a small step to walls & armies & organized warfare. (Or so says Gwynn Dyer, IIRC, & I agree.)

The problem is both that some people are both better at it and prefer it. Hence, unless they and the incentive for it can be removed/brought under control permanently its going to persist.

I follow Pournelle, here, & completely disagree. Once we've become spacefaring, the pressures to war should disappear: territory & energy, the main limits on society, disappear for all practical purposes. That being so, any spacefaring species should be peaceful--or it would have made itself extinct before achieving true spacefaring (in this context, high warp).

They will be dramatically reduced, at least in the short term, once space travel becomes easy, safe and available for about all. Which could be a long, long time given the vested interests for the powerful in restricting access to such resources.

However their not the sole reasons for conflict. Questions of religion, idealogical, historical differences are often as important as resources, which under virtually any conceivable circumstances will not be infinite.

Also there is the other problem, which Niven pointed out in Known Space. If one race goes pacifist its likely to be a huge temptation to any neighbours.

Steve
 
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