With a post WWI Pod is there a way to have both Algeria and Libya still remain part of their respective colonizers and possibly even have a European majority?
With a post WWI Pod is there a way to have both Algeria and Libya still remain part of their respective colonizers and possibly even have a European majority?
for france - avoid all of ww2, or join nazi germany in kicking the soviet union off of the european continent.
Good luck with that :/
It's relatively easy to stop WW2 in a TL, just don't have Hitler come to power in Germany - or preferably have him assassinated post-Munich Crisis. German appetites for expansion are quite satisfied for the time being and war is avoided - The assassination is easy, just have Maurice Bavaud go ahead with his planned shooting in the anniversary of the Beer Hall Putsch.Why avoiding WW2 ? Make the French win the Battle of France, and then the war, that way they didn't lose any prestige. Not sure they won't lose Indochina anyway but that not the point of the thread.
There were some project to integrate more Algeria into France proper, by according more rights to the Algerian, and eventually citizenship. They were reject, but it's a start.
Indochina ultimately had little to do with Algeria. The Indochina fight was a fight for a colony; the Algerian fight was a French civil war fought mainly in North Africa and was ultimately a fight between White Supremacist bigotry and Algerians who were being told that they have no culture, that the great White French Man has brought civilization to a lucky bunch of dark-skinned subhumans who should be thankful. The Algerians were told to believe in the French promise of Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity while being trampled on, denied their rights, and otherwise subject to a horrorhouse of hypocritical domination.Not sure about Italy but I think it was possible France could keep Algeria if they avoid Vietnam war. If Vietnam is allowed to go its way France avoids both waste of resources and defeat and people aren't as sick of fighting to keep such lands. There would be some reorganisation of how Algeria is run but it remains French.
A related question.
If Italy is neutral in WWII and are able to keep Libya what kind of situation would have developed in Ethiopia? There really isn't a significant Italian immigration and there is a much larger native population, so does Italy have its own version of the French Indochina war on its hands?
Indochina ultimately had little to do with Algeria. The Indochina fight was a fight for a colony; the Algerian fight was a French civil war fought mainly in North Africa and was ultimately a fight between White Supremacist bigotry and Algerians who were being told that they have no culture, that the great White French Man has brought civilization to a lucky bunch of dark-skinned subhumans who should be thankful. The Algerians were told to believe in the French promise of Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity while being trampled on, denied their rights, and otherwise subject to a horrorhouse of hypocritical domination.
The moment military technology enters the submachine gun/assault rifle age, Colonialism is living on borrowed time.
By dint of being their colonizer and the record of oppressive brutality carried out in Algeria dating back to the 19th century, the French little to no prestige to speak of amongst their colonized subjects.In a strictest sense you are right. However my point is that if France avoids war in Indochina it deosn't bleed there, doesn't waste resources trying to achieve military victory, doesn't suffer prestige loss due to military defeat and most importantly French aren't already sick of fighting for oversea lands. All that can be spend in Algeria instead, with addition of being both closer to home, different status and having larger French population. That means French public will be more willing to support war to keep it, if there is no Indochina trauma right before it.
Why should the French compromise when their Colonialist mindset is spared the reality-smack of Indochina? And Algerians don't want compromise--that assumption is based on the fallacy that the Algerians want to be Frenchman, which by definition is a Catholic White Man. Algerians did not want to be French, they wanted to be Algerians and have nothing to do with a bunch of racist conquerors who legalized mob terror and routinely carried out torture and massacre, all while insisting that they were spreading the virtues of the Enlightenment and Western Civilization.Reforms would be neccessary, no doubt, and if France is willing to let Indochina go in the first place some rights for Algerians are not out of the question. Since they can offer Algerians some compromise and back it with more credible ilitary fist France can keep it.
It depends. The Second Ethiopian War was a Fascist project that moved forward in the face of near-global condemnation. So there is no Ethiopian scenario in a no-Fascists TL.If Italy is neutral in WWII and are able to keep Libya what kind of situation would have developed in Ethiopia? There really isn't a significant Italian immigration and there is a much larger native population, so does Italy have its own version of the French Indochina war on its hands?
It depends. The Second Ethiopian War was a Fascist project that moved forward in the face of near-global condemnation. So there is no Ethiopian scenario in a no-Fascists TL.
However, in a "Fascist Italy that Somehow Remains Neutral" TL, there won't be Italian settlement in Ethiopia--that was never really the point. It was all about Conquest for the sake of Conquest and trying to consume more resources for the Fascist State (of course, the place was a budgetary sinkhole).
The Italians will never get to keep Ethiopia. When the Fascists are gone, their independence is restored, as it was IOTL. Ethiopia has always been a special case with the European powers mostly due to the great street cred generated by their having Christian rulers.
Untenable once the Somalis start getting antsy and rise up--there aren't nearly enough Italians to legitimate staying to duke it out. The only place the Italians have a chance to form a viable settler colony is in Libya, and even that requires a good deal of unpleasant demographic reengineering and bodes very ill for the native Libyans.What about Italian Somalia?
Untenable once the Somalis start getting antsy and rise up--there aren't nearly enough Italians to legitimate staying to duke it out. The only place the Italians have a chance to form a viable settler colony is in Libya, and even that requires a good deal of unpleasant demographic reengineering and bodes very ill for the native Libyans.