Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

[Glen]

Hi Glen! First post on this thread but a long-time lurker:

Welcome, TheBerlinguer! Thanks for coming out of the shadows to comment - your patronage is appreciated!

now that you updated with details on the Italian front I couldn't shy away from some questions.
First of all, when do these events take place? And how long did it take for the Italian forces to launch their attack? Preparations must have taken a lot of time, considering Trieste was strategically of utmost importance for Austria - Hungary and so seen as the hot spot of any defence line. Is this happening while the Korsgaardist powers are already losing ground and in full nitrate crisis?

Yep, Trieste is taken towards the end of the war.

So why not continue the offensive, maybe in other directions (Trentino is still suicide,

Actually, Trentino isn't part of Austria-Hungary, hasn't been since the Liberal War.

but a seaborne assault in Istria could be possible with a weakened Austro-hungarian navy).

Or even land-borne. In fact, the Italian Allies are pressing into Istria not just taking Trieste. But Trieste is the more 'prestigious' victory, and thus received the greater press.

Then, my memories are a little blurry, so how do the Italian nations treat each other? Are there formalised treaties or are they on the same wagon due to the war? If the latter is the case, how's the war changing the attitudes of the Italians-Romans-Neapolitans?

Fair question. The Kingdom of Italy (in the north) and the Kingdom of Naples (in the south) vie for dominance of the region, but in fact the Roman Republic serves as a useful buffer state for keeping the peace against the occasional ambitious administration. Naples and Rome want close relations between nations on the peninsula, but not political union. Italy still harbors dreams of uniting the peninsula, but have not been aggressive about it (mostly because they need their back secure to deal with the Austro-Hungarians, and a combined front from Rome and Naples could beat them, and probably could count on support from France).

The odd-man-out of the OTL Italian sphere is the small island Kingdom of Sicily. They don't enjoy good relations with any of the Italian peninsula states, and in fact do more in trade with Spain and Portugal.

IOTL WWI was the principal contributor to spreading the common Italian language amid the new generations.

Interesting - how did WWI do that?

Otherwise, congratulations for the suspence. While the Eastern Powers are faring bad no one could now foresee when the conflict will end! Always a plus.

Thank you!

 

[TheBerlinguer]

Actually, Trentino isn't part of Austria-Hungary, hasn't been since the Liberal War.

How embarrassing... Too used to see the OTL Italo-Austrian border and I forgot that Tyrol is no more a Hapsurg possession.

Interesting - how did WWI do that?

It's quite simple: Italian is not a recent creation, but more like a systemisation and omologation of the language used by the Tuscan poets of the XIV century like Dante, Petrarca and Boccaccio. This means that Italian has never been subject to consistent changes since 1500, but also that it has always been out of synch with the Italian dialects, even the Tuscan ones (the Florentine used by Machiavelli in the XVI century was already quite different from standard Italian of the period).
This meant that Italian was used almost exclusively as the language of the accultured elites (who anyway never shied away from speaking their own dialects even in public occasions) and not even the unification neither the reform of the public education system by minister Gentile really helped to solve the problem. BUT, during WWI young men from every Italian region coexisted in the Alpine trenches and a lingua franca was necessary to transmit the orders between officers and soldiers who rarely spoke the same dialect. So Italian came in quite handy and it began to spread amid the masses after the war.

 

[Glen]

How embarrassing... Too used to see the OTL Italo-Austrian border and I forgot that Tyrol is no more a Hapsurg possession.

No need for embarrassment - I had to look back at my maps to recall really. But yeah, turn of the century Europe has some differences.

It's quite simple: Italian is not a recent creation, but more like a systemisation and omologation of the language used by the Tuscan poets of the XIV century like Dante, Petrarca and Boccaccio. This means that Italian has never been subject to consistent changes since 1500, but also that it has always been out of synch with the Italian dialects, even the Tuscan ones (the Florentine used by Machiavelli in the XVI century was already quite different from standard Italian of the period).
This meant that Italian was used almost exclusively as the language of the accultured elites (who anyway never shied away from speaking their own dialects even in public occasions) and not even the unification neither the reform of the public education system by minister Gentile really helped to solve the problem. BUT, during WWI young men from every Italian region coexisted in the Alpine trenches and a lingua franca was necessary to transmit the orders between officers and soldiers who rarely spoke the same dialect. So Italian came in quite handy and it began to spread amid the masses after the war.

Got it,thanks. There may be some of that here but it won't have the same effect post-war as in OTL. You will see some more use of Italian in Italy, Roman in the Roman Republic,and Neapolitan in Naples probably.

 

[Glen]

The population of Ireland had been growing steadily until the 1830s, when the combination of multiple crop failures and easy access to emigration and greater opportunities caused the population level to actually steady more or less at 8 million for the latter half of the 19th Century. The continuing pressure value of emigration was probably invaluable to the stability of Ireland during this era, but even more important was the gradually improving situation for the poor Catholic majority (and even moreso for the minority Protestants and the growing middle class) on the island. The Whigs in the Reform Revolution expanded greatly on the rights of the Irish people within the United Kingdom, even if they did not gain all that the most vocal Irish patriots would want. The Tory government that followed the Reform Era was able through more sober and perhaps realistic economic policy as well as a renewed interest in building the infrastructure of the British Isles, including to a degree that of Ireland, to continue the gradual improvement of the lot of the average Irishman. This did not stop discontent, but it ameliorated it to a degree. By the 1860s, things were turning around in Ireland. Increasingly small farmers were able to gain some stability in their land tenure and even sometimes buying their own land. Land reform laws curtailed some of the worst landlord abuses of the first half of the century, and encouraged a return to a more diverse crop for the island, following the more modern agricultural theories of the day. Increased access to education was passed throughout the British Isles, including of course Ireland, but was a double edged sword in terms of the identity of the island. Literacy improved and this opened up more opportunities for people in Ireland, but these publically supported schools were only teaching in English, not Irish, and after a few generations this was starting to have real impact on the rate of Irish being spoken. The increasing easing of tensions in Ireland and increasing literacy and fluency in English helped prepare the Irish Island for participation in the Global War. The British Empire needed soldiers and sailors for the greatest conflict of the 19th century, and Ireland provided some of the most fierce troops of the British military, perhaps driven by the desire of the individuals serving to prove their loyalty to the crown after the difficult times of the earlier 19th century.

Population of Ireland

 

[Cylon_Number_14]

Wow an Ireland that avoids the great famine halving the island's population. And it is likely to stay in the UK. That is not something you see every day!

 

[Mac Gregor]

Nice to hear that about Ireland. Keep the updates coming.

 

[Glen]

Wow an Ireland that avoids the great famine halving the island's population. And it is likely to stay in the UK. That is not something you see every day!

Nice to hear that about Ireland. Keep the updates coming.

Thanks - Ireland still has it's tribulations, but the situation will end up more like OTL Scotland than OTL Ireland. This is a combination of some better luck and some better government. Don't get me wrong - things aren't peachy keen in Ireland, and in fact they are still pumping out a lot of emigrants, but no where near as many are dying, so instead of decline, the population in the Emerald Isle is leveling off.

 

[Glen]

While some historians will claim that Chuen China was the first of the great powers aligned with Korsgaardism to make peace with the forces of the Allies of the Entente, most acknowledge that it was the Austrians who were the first of the main belligerents to seek a peace treaty. With a whole army lost in the Balkans, the Germans and Italians pressing in on their borders, desparate shortages of food and worse, ammunition, and outright rebellion in Hungary, it is little wonder that Vienna sued for an early and separate peace. Of course, the fact that Prussia-Poland had its own problems with Brandenburg overrun and in revolt and the Russians had pulled back to their borders leaving their allies to flounder allowed the Austrians to take the move.

The terms of the Treaty of Geneva ending the war between the Austrian crown and the Entente stipulated that most of the Austrian Littoral would be ceded to the Kingdom of Italy, and Salzburg was ceded to Germany. Reparations were to be paid to Germany, Italy, and the Ottoman Empire for damage done to their invaded lands. The Crown and the Austrian Church were also required to acknowledge and make obeisance to the Pope as the true and rightful head of the Church, and to renounce forever any claim on a veto in papal elections. When the Republic of Hungary declared itself not only independent but neutral in the Global War, the stipulation was also added that Austria had to recognize Hungarian independence.

With the dissolution of Austria-Hungary, a reorganization of the remaining crown lands was felt necessary. There had been some concerns that the Bohemian lands, which had been laid open to invasion, might also break off. However, the Bohemians and Moravians were concerned about possibly being annexed by Germany, and instead negotiated to replace Hungary in a dual monarchy, the new nation of Austria-Bohemia.

Site of the Treaty of Geneva:

 

[Derekc2]

Hetalia momment comming in 3...2....1.

So we now know Aushun isn't canon in this timeline's version of hetalia. But Ausboh is.

I said boh for bohemia. Also I'm (arbertarily) assuming Bohemia is female like Hungary.

 

[Glen]

Hetalia momment comming in 3...2....1.

So we now know Aushun isn't canon in this timeline's version of hetalia. But Ausboh is.

I said boh for bohemia. Also I'm (arbertarily) assuming Bohemia is female like Hungary.

Works as well as anything - luckily my daughter and her coterie of friends are Hetalia fanatics, so I actually know what you are talking about now.

 

[Derekc2]

Works as well as anything - luckily my daughter and her coterie of friends are Hetalia fanatics, so I actually know what you are talking about now.

Yep.

Once you join, you never leave! We are legion.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

I wonder if Prussia will get absorbed into Germany. Will be looking forward for the map update.

Anyway, have you read the PMs that I've sent you, Glen ?

 

[Iserlohn]

So Austria folds up next, interesting. Though a small question: What will happen to the Burgenland and Prekmurje/the Vendic March?

With both regions being part of the Kingdom of Hungary what will the Austrian Germans in the Burgenland and the Slovenes/Prekmurians seek to unite with Austria-Bohemia or will they attempt to gain autonomy in Hungary, like the Prekmurians attempted in OTL?

 

[Glen]

Yep.

Once you join, you never leave! We are legion.

Funny - maybe you ought to create a DSA timeline version of Hetalia thread.

 

[Nanwe]

Funny - maybe you ought to create a DSA timeline version of Hetalia thread.

Or a SATW version!!


Anyway, by annexing Salzburg, Glen, did you mean the city proper or the OTL state, that used to be part of Bavaria during the Napoleonic period?

 

[Glen]

I wonder if Prussia will get absorbed into Germany. Will be looking forward for the map update.

Anyway, have you read the PMs that I've sent you, Glen ?

Time will tell.

I have responded.

 

[Glen]

So Austria folds up next, interesting. Though a small question: What will happen to the Burgenland and Prekmurje/the Vendic March?

With both regions being part of the Kingdom of Hungary what will the Austrian Germans in the Burgenland and the Slovenes/Prekmurians seek to unite with Austria-Bohemia or will they attempt to gain autonomy in Hungary, like the Prekmurians attempted in OTL?

These are some excellent questions. TTL's Austria-Hungary was a little different than ours. This has some effects on the breakup. When I get to a regular computer I will try to explain further.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Can we get a flag for Austria-Bohemia please?

 

[Glen]

The Civil Ensign of Austria-Bohemia:

 

[Glen]

Or a SATW version!!


Anyway, by annexing Salzburg, Glen, did you mean the city proper or the OTL state, that used to be part of Bavaria during the Napoleonic period?

The city proper