Evidently, I should stay away from anything film related here.
I don't have nearly the appreciation of the subtleties you do.
Well, considering your oft-mentioned hatred of Shakespeare, one would think that the 1968 version of
Romeo and Juliet would go a long way toward getting high-schoolers to appreciate it more, considering that the leads are actually their age for once, and act like it. I guess schools didn't have VCRs yet by the late 1970s? Did they play films on those old-style projectors back then, or did they simply not feel the need for audio-visual aids of that sort? (I guess you could have always gone to see a
live performance...)
phx1138 said:
Given Sov mistrust of PRC, I'm not sure you really need to bring Japan into it.
I'm referring to Japan's tactics, not their sociopolitical standing. We do have canon evidence for this, too. What were their attacks on the outposts just this side of the Neutral Zone, if not a thinly-veiled Pearl Harbor? The only real difference is that the Romulans were an ancient enemy seeking a rematch (which doesn't really fit Red China
or Imperial Japan, relative to the United States). But China and the US only ever went to "war" in the Boxer Rebellion, so we have to look elsewhere; hence the shift to Imperial Japan.
phx1138 said:
In other news, I'm (as I write this) watching the PBS doc "We Shall Remain" on the siege at Wounded Knee, which suggests Nixon being distracted by Watergate meant things went worse than they needed to. Is it too late iTTL to get that butterflied? (Presuming you want it to be, BB...
)
Funny you should mention that; we'll be hearing about the fallout from how those events play out ITTL in the not-too-distant future...
Any (non-spoilery) things you can say about this post, Brainbin? It kind of got lost in the crossfire to some political speculation when I first posted it a while back...
Ah, yes, in the midst of the
27 eek
posts (which, ironically enough,
you set off by starting on the political speculation!
). Let's revisit those bygone days of yore, shall we?
There are a plethora of interesting early drafts of Star Wars available. However, with space opera becoming more popular as a genre, there is a fear that it wouldn't be the singular achievement it was for Lucas in OTL, and it wouldn't stand out in the crowd of "Star Trek copycats".
Something worth remembering is that Lucas
had his shot at science-fiction, ITTL
and IOTL:
THX-1138. It bombed ITTL, almost as hard as it did IOTL, for the very simple reason that the populace simply did not seem to cotton to the film (Lucas re-released it in the wake of
Star Wars, and it
still failed to attract an audience - and if it couldn't do it
then, it's a safe bet it never could). He would have to rebuild his reputation by playing ball with the studios, which resulted in
American Graffiti - a smash success, again both IOTL
and ITTL (where it did even
better). Now he may be able to shop around his throwback space opera project to any interested buyers - if not for one problem: in late 1973, Moonshot Lunacy is in serious decline, about to be dealt the killing blow. There's a difference between the largely untapped market of OTL, and one deemed oversaturated, as ITTL. Also worth noting is that the fate of
Star Wars hinged largely on the whim of
one man: Alan Ladd, Jr., who only reached the position necessary to green-light this project in
1973 - seven years after the POD. As is so often the case, everything has to line up just
so for it to work.
I wonder who would buy the rights to Flash Gordon and produce it as a film? It could be someone surprisingly high profile. Remember, in OTL there was a serious movement to draft Francis Ford Coppola to direct Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and the guy they got, Robert Wise (director of The Sound of Music, West Side Story, and The Sand Pebbles) weren't nuthin' to spit at either. Since I'm assuming Star Trek in this timeline has done for science fiction by the last season what Star Wars did in OTL, we could have some high-profile directors clamoring for the material.
I've stated since, and I will now re-iterate, that
Star Trek is increasingly being viewed as lightning in a bottle. By the mid-1970s, it's become very clear that it's a phenomenon unto itself, beyond Moonshot Lunacy, beyond interest in science-fiction or even speculative fiction (to use OTL terminology), and it has the broad appeal and intense fan devotion shared by a
very select few.
That being said, I like your idea. I'll be touching on some of those themes in the next cycle of updates, actually.
(For the official record, Wise is definitely a more accomplished figure than Coppola. Don't forget, he was the film editor for
Citizen Kane )
vultan said:
My two cents? Have Sam Peckinpah direct Flash Gordon. No, seriously. Nothing he made after Straw Dogs in OTL (1971) was really successful or worthwhile, so let him have a shot.
Sam Peckinpah? A director as brutal and nihilistic as him, directing material as golly-gee and whiz-bang as
Flash Gordon? It's a
creative choice, I'll give you that!
vultan said:
Also, with science fiction more successful, how's it's cousin, good ol' sword and sorcery fantasy, holding out? In OTL, after Star Wars was successful, fantasy films got a lot more attention and more were made. How are Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson doing? Also remember, in OTL, there was a draft to get Stanley Kubrick to direct the Lord of the Rings (by the Beatles, no less, but if it was done ITTL, keep it without em, please
) trilogy around this time, and I've put on this site a fairly lengthy, "in-universe" description of how they would turn out.
I believe you've shared this idea with me before. And recommended it for this timeline, too, if I'm not mistaken
It's early enough that I can give the idea some further consideration. Kubrick as director is, without question, a longshot, especially since he directed so few films IOTL after 1960.
vultan said:
The sad thing is, at the intersection of a President Hubert Humphrey timeline and a more successful Star Trek=film copycat timeline, there is a real possibility much of the dark and cynically beautiful films of New Hollywood are aborted...
You are correct, sir! I'm a firm believer in art from adversity, and we'll find out precisely what TTL will be missing over the course of the next several cycles.
Maybe some of Jack Nicholson's early successes (after Easy Rider, of course).
Between you and phx, you're both touching on a lot of material I plan to discuss
very soon! That's a good sign, as far as I'm concerned
I still hope to have the next update ready for Tuesday, and things are looking pretty good so far! So, until then...